The House of Hades
discussion
NICO… YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT O.o
Part of the problem here is that you are assuming that the child reading the book is not gay. Why is it not okay for a gay child to see a strong gay character? How is that destructive to the gay community?
The only child im concerened with is my own, which is why the decision should be left up to me! if i told her all about sexuality and sex when she showed a preference for a certain gender, id been having that convo when she was 6 months old! always has loved men, and has had "boyfriends" since she was 1! it wouldnt matter who she prefers, she knows i love and support her in all her decisions in life,big or small! its a parents right and responsibility what to tell and what to withhold at that age-thats my main beef!
That's fine so why are you mAking such a big deal about Rick Riordan including this in the book?? If you don't like it, don't read it or let your kid read it... Damn
Ummm...if she's been having 'boyfriends' since she was one, then how is sexuality in any way something she's too young to know about? If you're old enough to know about crushes, then surely you're old enough to know not everyone crushes on the opposite gender.
I think that people who have boyfriends when they are young, boast about their first kiss when they are five, and have "relationship problems" when they are 13, like some people I know, will never really be mature enough to rightfully know this stuff. I swear, some kids are more mature than adults about this stuff. If you have to learn something, learn it right. If your child would have picked up on this negative theme from the kids at her school anyway, then maybe it's better to introduce it with a well loved good guy character.
I think it is frankly hilarious that people are making such a fuzz about this. Its obviously needed for Riordan to put this in the book if the reactions down here are anything to go by.I might not be a parent myself but if you are seriously trying to debate that your kids cannot read this book anymore because one boy character kisses another then frankly i doubt you where ever ready to put children on this planet.
Just tell your kids that it is ok to love someone regardless of gender. How should that even be an issue is frankly beyond me.
People who are calling this ''wrong'' are obviously left with more then a little childish behavior left in themselves and need to start growing the fuck up ASAP because your kids will be looking to you to set a decent example.
Karen wrote: "i understand this is a regular theme in greek mytgology,trust me, prolly know of more stories then even mr. riordan! that being said,thats why i loved these books!-they shared the myths i love with..."A regular theme in Greek mythology.....
Its a regular theme in every day life! Jesus christ lady do you live in some time constrained place 50 years in the past or something?
Learning about homosexuality (regarding male of female preference) is always age approriate.You just tell your kids that people can love all sorts of other people. Children,especially young children, don't care one bit. But because parents like yourself make the subject taboo problems arise.
Felix the character didn't even kiss another boy in the book. People are making a big deal because he admitted to having a crush on one I the other characters... That's it... A crush...
And how the fuck is it appropriate to have conversation with a toddler if she likes boys or girls? You tell them love comes in different forms lady. You do not exchange gossip about boys with your six year old daughter.I am trying really had not to judge you hear but you come across very childlike yourself.
Cherie wrote: "Felix the character didn't even kiss another boy in the book. People are making a big deal because he admitted to having a crush on one I the other characters... That's it... A crush..."Makes this whole thing all the more sadder.
Slightly funny looking at it from an antropological and farcial angle.
But if you stop and seriously think about it it seriously exposes some people as complete hypocrites.
I think that Mr Riordan was obvious quit right to put it in his book. I always got a little annoyeed by that fact that ever books/television series needed a gay storyline all of a sudden because i really did not see an inherent need for it just for the sake of it. I obviously was very wrong though reading some of the reactions here.
Obviously readers and the like still have to keep pushing this issue to the forefront because a lot of ''responsible'' parents do not think it is ''appropriate'' to teach your child that loves and crushes can come in many different forms,regardless of gender,age or race.
Why do parents keep thinking that their kids are too young to learn certain concepts? Funny because I have a friend that has substitute teached for different grades K-8 in difference districts and you wouldn't believe the things these 8-9 yr olds say. Just because they are young doesn't mean that they don't hear words and associate meaning to them as best as they can. Of course since society is inclined to shelter children from "bad things" they grow up being ignorant and committing hurtful acts. But please, it's not their fault, "they are only kids". Has anybody heard of the 19 yr old girls that dressed as Twin Towers being destroyed for Halloween? Why? My guess would be because the event happened when they were about 7 and people wanted to shelter them from it so they never realized how traumatic it was and what a disrespect it would be. Or when the Sandy Hook shooting happened, it was all over the news, you think kids didn't see or hear about it? Did anyone try to explain it to them, or did they just try to shelter them from it? Oh that friend that I mentioned, last week one of the kids she was substituting for said he wished for a shooting to happen at his school so that they would be out early. Can you believe that? She had to explain to him that kids died that day which meant that they would never be able to open a Christmas gift, their parents would never be able to hug them, and all sorts of different outcomes that came from it. So honestly, I don't think that a kid that has the capacity to understand what was happening through out the PJ series up until MoA, doesn't have the capacity to understand what a CRUSH is in HoH.
Jαṡṃïṉε wrote: "Not reading the last book because of Nico's little "episode". This is inappropriate, and I will have nothing to do with an author who supports gay rights. This is violating, and horrifying."Okay, seriously? I'm not gay, but I am wondering what is so wrong with being gay or supporting gay rights?
Karen wrote: "The only child im concerened with is my own, which is why the decision should be left up to me! [...] its a parents right and responsibility what to tell and what to withhold at that age-thats my main beef!"The strange thing about your post to me:
You want what topics your child is exposed to to be in your control.
However, by trying to dictate what Riordan should and shouldn't include in his books, you forcing that decision into his domain.
Do you see the paradox here?
If you don't want your child to read something until you want them to, then it's your responsibility to know what your kids are reading, not to dictate what an author should be writing.
It's no different from deciding what shows your kids should be allowed to watch. You don't tell them what to put in the show. You simply make sure your kid doesn't watch it. For example, I think South Park is highly inappropriate (not just for kids, to be honest), but instead of demanding they clean up their content, I simply don't watch it.
okay then. back to an old point, about who Nico's gonna end up with.
i kinda don't want him to end up with anyone. i want his happy to ending to be that he accepts himself and everyone else accepts him for exactly who he is and everyone stops being uncomfortable around him because he's the son of Hades.
if he does get a boyfriend it would probably be a new character and it'd just be weird to throw in a new character just so Nico can have someone.
He doesn't need to be with someone to be happy.
However, he kinda does need to let go of his crush on Percy. because it's never going to happen because Percy's ridiculously in love with Annabeth and Nico being in love with him endlessly is just gonna break his heart further.
But he can get over Percy without him staring after some new guy.
I think that would be a good ending for nico. The book will be really cheesy if everybody ends up with a soul mate all lovey dovey.
sigh... i never said or implied he shouldnt put this in his books, only that he should give a heads up to parents that he was detouring from HIS norm! and as for the childish comment, yes nothing makes you a more high and mighty adult then me than name calling someone you dont know! smh, this crass and nasty behavior is what prevents people from coming together! all i can say is you reap what you sow! perhaps the next time someone judges you and calls YOU a name, youll think of this! based on your post however, i dont doubt the irony of you being a bigot heckled by another different kind of bigot will be lost on you : ( hopefully youll grow into something better and more mature, i wish you luck
Felix, as for the comment i made about it being a common theme in greek mythology,that was in reference to beastiality NOT homosexuality! perhaps you should read and actually comprehend before you comment! just a thought...p.s. your language makes you sound crude and uneducated, no one will ever take you seriously sounding like that! although i didnt agree with everything cherie and others said, nor the anger in their "voices" at least they gave their opinion without sounding like a sailor! (p.s. my dad was a sailor and never talks this bad!)
Karen wrote: "sigh... i never said or implied he shouldnt put this in his books, only that he should give a heads up to parents that he was detouring from HIS norm! and as for the childish comment, yes nothing m..."Why does he need to give a heads up? In real life, gay people don't come with an identifying sticker. They are people, not objects. You shouldn't shield your child from this kind of stuff, as they will still exist and your child will grow up ignorant of these kind of issues. If they can learn about heterosexuality they can learn about homosexuality. Heterosexuality is a type of sexuality, you realize that right?
From my point of view, you are doing the most name-calling, calling other people bigots and crude and uneducated, which seems to be your default defensive mode when you have no argument. And what is Rick's norm? From what I see, his norm is empowering those that need to be empowered (people with ADHD, colored people, and now people who are not straight). If you're "sad she will not be able to enjoy them with me the way she had the originals until shes much older", then simply don't let her read the book until she is older. It's that simple. You're saying that we should "teach kids not to judge period". The appropriate way to enact that is to NOT have a warning that there is a non-straight person in the series. If you differentiate this book from the rest and have a "warning" on the book just because there is a character who isn't straight, isn't that the definition of setting Nico apart from the rest of the characters and ALLOWING judgement on his character? That's the opposite of what Rick was intending to do.
Also I see your comment on bestiality. You seem much more worried about the sexuality issue than the bestiality issue. Bestiality has been in this series since Day 1 with the Minotaur; i'm pretty sure that is worse than a kid being gay. How is that appropriate for your child to read then? How is this series, which features murder, rape, abusive relationships, incest, appropriate for your child to read at all? Its certainly more harmful than a crush (which isn't even remotely sexual). You're saying you don't want your child to be exposed to homosexuality, yet you don't mind your child to be exposed to these issues?
Also, your argument is an Ad Hominem. You are attacking the others and the way they talk, but not their ideas (which is the point of this discussion- a discussion on ideas); instead, you condescend them on their reading abilities.(and the extent of Felix's "crude" language was the word 'fuck'. I don't see why that makes him sound crude and uneducated. Big deal).
I am sorry for what happened to your gay friend though, that sounds horrible. But in my opinion, I feel that that is more reason to inform kids earlier, so they will understand and will not be confused, instead of keeping them in the dark and growing up with a muddled idea of sexuality.
Karen wrote: "sigh... i never said or implied he shouldnt put this in his books, only that he should give a heads up to parents that he was detouring from HIS norm!"Well, there's your problem. You're projecting your definition of a norm onto Riordan. You made assumptions about what he was likely to put in his books. That's your bad, not Riordan's. Besides, what author is going to put out major spoilers on their story? "Hey, Snape's going to kill Dumbledore in this book. Just an FYI for the parents whose kids might not like that!" Really?
Look, here's the thing. If you're going to read books right as they're released, then you accept the risk of potentially being blind sided by things. It's called being on the Bleeding Edge. It's no different than getting new software right as it's released. You accept the risk of there being a glitch or vulnerability in the program. If you're not willing to accept that risk, then you agree to wait until others have discovered things before you. That's just the way it works. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
A million points to cecerose! ^_^ very well spoken. :p I don't ever do this, but what the hell...WHAT SHE SAID!
Everyone is just ganging up on everyone with a different opinion than themselves... this is really sad.This is why people keep there opinions to themselves because when you say something opposite to the masses in that discussion you get instant rebuttals as to WHY you should agree with them.
I read through all 15 pages(wow) and all i saw where people who supported Nico's "crush" ganging up against anyone who said they didn't even if the person was polite and didn't mean anything by it they were "attacked" with passive aggressive comments.
Why does everyone think its has to do with sex? Like i said in my review it felt forced yes but looking back the "crush" could just be Nico finding an attachment after his sister was lost to him... like looking up to Percy as a brother, i never had a brother but i have affection for some good friends like they were my brothers.... or Nico could just have a plain man on man crush.
We will just have to find out in the next book although it will feel weird reading because this just popped up out of nowhere but i want to find out about Leo don't really care for anyone else(view spoiler)
Offering rebuttals as to why you should believe how somebody else does is not called ganging up on those with different opinions. It's called having a discussion. Some do get a little crazy at times, it's only because this (for some stupid reason) is a controversial issue...
If somebody can't handle their opinion being questioned by others or can't do so in a respectful manner then they should not get involved in the discussion.
Actually, I'm pretty sure there have been a couple of comments of people stating they have a problem with homosexuality and that has been the end of it. It is because people that oppose it are either rude about it or try to find other ways of putting the book down when their real issue is that homosexuality was introduced. Admittedly some people have gone overboard with their opinions but for the most part this has been a healthy discussion where faulty logic has been rebutted. Why do people assume it has to do with sex, is the same thing most of us are wondering. As to Nico, he has to get past his crush but before that I think he has to confront Percy. Nico's revelation was sudden but Riodan has stated it was not planned, but felt right, so it's there for character development, perhaps rushed but you can still see the how it fits.
I am not a homophobe, in fact I would love a gay person just as much as a straight person. Even with this being true, I cannot respect Rick Riordan for making Nico gay, because of his young audience. It is not ok for him to introduce this concept to young readers without warning, if parents want their kids to know about homosexuality, then they would tell them, but I doubt they would want them to find out by just reading this book. I find this very dishonorable of him, and even though I adore the series, and have read every book with excitement, I sadly cannot support them any longer.
Yes,thank you kevin! my problem was with the inreased maturity with the overal tone! nothing wrong with it, just is appropiate to have a warning of the changed targeted age! not just because of introduced homosexuality (which no matter what you think, its THAT parents decision for their own child), but because of the more graphic description of Tarturas, increased sensuality(more grown up relationships), and my main problem with it-the beastiality(which although introduced briefly before,was glazed over and toned down-this time,way too descriptive and in detail!) i never called names or berated anyone, only merely stated its bigoted to attack and become agressive to someone with a different opinion no matter which side your on! thats my reasoning (which for some strange reason people who dont agree seem to think i have no reasoning- uh huh? just because i disagree with you doesnt mean i dont have reasoning or an argument! it merely means it differs from yours!(many of which neglected to state theirs : / merely acted as an elitest assuming their way of thinking was the only way-or the only way that mattered!)) sorry but this attitude is not cool no matter who has it! yes ive called people who spew hate against my gay friends bigotted, not because they disagree with his lifestyle (because thats their right) but because of the hatred, cruelty, and bullying they use! And kudos to Kevin! thank you for reading all the comments! (i did too!) i dont understand how people can get all beligerent and agressive when they dont have the facts, or dont fully comprehend whats going on! ive had to explain myself countless times because of this and someones misconception of what ive said! you dont really have a right to sound off on something you dont understand if your to lazy to read the arguments! of course this does not include those who've taken the highroad and are merely discussing it, but unfortunately they are in the minority! most people do not wish to "discuss" things when theyre openly mocked, insulted, or threatened! considering how most of the people who were doing this agressive commenting seems to have experienced some form of rejection and hatred, you think theyd know better! its not your views that make you a good or bad person, its the way yoy present them and treat those who dont agree with you! not much of a challenge to be kind and respectful to those who are of like mind and purpose! all people are never gonna be alike, and believe the same thing,but how we treat each other,esp. those who disagree with us, is what defines us and shows we have evolved as a society!
Homosexuality doesn't come with a warning label in real life, people. Nobody walks around with a name tag like, "hello, I'm gay". I fail to see how a teenage boy mentioning a crush on another teenage boy is inappropriate for a young audience, it's obviously not the crush or else people would have opposed all the other pairings in the book. It has to be about homosexuality. But the thing you have to realize is that homosexuality is NOT an adult issue, ALL ages deal with it. It's important to teach kids to be accepting and understanding of all different kinds of people. Rick didn't have to warn parents, "hey just so you know, there is a dark skinned character in this book." Because people need to learn NOT to make a big deal of these issues, it's the only way to teach kids not to judge others. If you separate nico from the others then that is teaching children that there is something wrong with him.
And think about the lgbt and confused readers! What are you telling them if Rick has to put a warning out that there is homosexuality in the book. You're telling them that it is strange, that it's not the norm, that there is something WRONG. You're setting them up for judgement and that is wrong.
and no i will not attack someones opinion cecerose! because its THEIR opinion and they are entitled to it, i do however take exception to the rude and agressive remarks and the language,and was merely trying to tell felix that if he truly wishes someone to come over to his way of thinking, instead of just belittling them and attacking them (as he appeared to be doing), then perhaps he should assume a more respectful and educated tone. profanties and crude comments make ANYONE sound immature and uneducated! its no way for someone to have a geniune discussion, its hard not to dismiss his "opinons" when he sounds like my immature and badly behaved 13 year old cousin.....
Jαṡṃïṉε wrote: "Not reading the last book because of Nico's little "episode". This is inappropriate, and I will have nothing to do with an author who supports gay rights. This is violating, and horrifying."I honestly don't see how it's Inappropriate, considering that being LGBT is actually becoming socially acceptable.
On top of that, and the fact that Greek Gods showed Homosexual leanings (Apollo and Hyacinthus, Zeus and Ganymede), many pre teens and teenagers read these books, and may be closet LGBT, afraid to come out.
This character, who has long been a favorite of mine, can help them.
HOWEVER:
I do respect your view and encourage you to read the book..this 'episode' is literally six words in the entire chapter, and the rest of the book is quite amazing.
Ok so people are bound to argue and everyone's opinion counts but you have to look at it both sides. i first thought homosexuality was...weird and i wonder how that could be true. sure you can be against it but you also have to think about how people that are gay are living their lives. do they want to be bombarded with critism or with acceptance? and that's what made me change my mind. It might not be part of my religion but we have to move on and that means accepting others. Sure it might look a little gross with gays/lesbians kissing but it's the same for straight. I know some are just pissed with the fact that a gay character was portrayed in a "kid book" but children are easier to accept the world if they know first hand because adults can be single-minded but kids have to be told from the start that acceptance is okay for everyone. And for those of who that post your opinions, well you have to know you'll get strong oppositions so you have to be ready to back your opinion and not just state "because that's my religion" because that's BS.
Yeah, to be honest, I found homosexuality to be gross when I first heard of it. But then I just thought how they lived their lives, not being accepted by many people and I realized that it wasn't gross at all. Sure, it took me quite some time to realize it but you have to see how they feel about themselves. Don't you think that they might be grossed out with their self? And that's sad because they shouldn't be. Homosexuality isn't wrong. And to this day, I still feel a bit uneasy every time I see someone kissing someone else of the same gender, but I still support it because people can't choose who they are. If you think that people CAN choose who they are, then you're in the wrong.
OMG remember when Jason said that Reyna wasn't the same when she had that convo with Aphrodite?? Your theory makes sense, but it's kinda unlikely. I don't think Rick is going to suddenly make Jason gay so that Nico can have him. What will happen to Piper? But still, I want Nico to be with someone, just not Percy. Percy has Annabeth! I kinda wish your theory is true though. It does make sense too...
I wish your theory was true though :( it would be awesome. I'd rather ship Jason and Nico than Jason and Piper. I REALLY don't like Piper. If be alright if she was left heartbroken to be honest.
I'm so excited for blood of Olympus. I think we are finally gonna get a nico POV!
I ship Octavion and Rachel because they're both oracles, and if you think about it, it's cute :) I really don't care about Piper, she's hella annoying. I want Nico to be happy too. And for Percy and Annabeth's relationship to be stronger than ever. I just want a happy ending !
I hate Octavian >_< Rachel is much to sassy for him ... The sassy characters deserve the best.
If Rick Riordan does make Jason gay then he is one brave man! Haha is love to see the reactions to that
Lmaoo I wish Jason was gay xDD and I really do hate Octavion but maybe if Rachel started dating him, she could bring out the good (if there's any good in him).
I absolutely hate this book now because of this nico incident. It is to mature for younger readers and it is too late in the story to develope this part of him so why ruin it by adding it to nico. I understand he wants a reader variety by this is terrible nico was my favorite character why ruin him. I dont hate gay people but this is the worst character to make gay. He was the toughest and gays arent usualy tough usualy. I almost cried when i learned he was gay i wish he would have done it to a lesser less developed person than nico if anyone.
Sonofhades121221 wrote: "I absolutely hate this book now because of this nico incident. It is to mature for younger readers and it is too late in the story to develope this part of him so why ruin it by adding it to nico. ..."*facepalm* I see someone didn't read the reviews containing opinions like this......
Sonofhades121221 wrote: "I absolutely hate this book now because of this nico incident. It is to mature for younger readers and it is too late in the story to develope this part of him so why ruin it by adding it to nico. ..."Nico has always been gay, the whole time you read about him and liked him? Yeah, he was gay all that time.
"gays aren't usually tough" really? That's such a stereotype, there are heaps of gay people who are tough.
And how is Nico being gay more mature than Percy and Annabeth being together, or all the killing that goes on in the books?
It's ridiculous when people say they won't read the book because Nico's gay. Hell, that's the majority of why I'm reading it now! It will be exciting, because Uncle Rick isn't just going to leave Nico out of the happy ending we all know is coming. EEEEPPP! I can hardly wait!
This discussion is just going to keep on going around in circles. I do have to admit that all sixteen pages are interesting.
iKR!! it's like have you learned nothing?
Karen wrote: "and no i will not attack someones opinion cecerose! because its THEIR opinion and they are entitled to it, i do however take exception to the rude and agressive remarks and the language,and was mer..."I'm not asking you to attack someone else's opinion with hate and judgement and I was not saying that people are not entitled to their opinion. I was merely pointing out that this is a discussion of ideas, not a place where someone attacks the person behind the ideas instead of discussing their ideas; then it is just avoiding the actual issue that people came here to talk about. Don't judge someone on how they talk. They are also entitled to talk (type?)as they see fit, if you don't like their language, that's your problem, not theirs. You are entitled to question someone on their ideas so you can understand where they are coming from or point out loopholes in their argument. Usually people ask questions to build a better understanding of your viewpoint and defend their own, because, as someone pointed out, people are entitled to speak their opinion of your opinion. Just like you are entitled to speak your opinion of my opinion (: As long as there is a reasonable argument behind one's opinion, instead of just blind hate or something, then that's okay, and most arguments here seem logical enough to me.
I don't get why these people can't read all sixteen pages of reviews before writing their opinion. They know the answer they're going to get, so why share it -_- We have to keep repeating the same thing over and over. Just look at the previous reviews and BAM! you got
yourself an answer.
yourself an answer.
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Have you ever considered that at 9 years old (and sometimes younger) many children are already confused about their own sexuality? Part of what makes them so confused and upset is not knowing that anything other than heterosexuality even exists. There is no difference between sexualities, not to children, to them it's all the same, love is love, crushes are crushes. It matters not. Not unless they are taught to think that way. Hiding it and pretending it doesn't exist makes children grow up not having the faintest clue and then naturally finding it odd or weird or wrong when they finally find out about it.