Ruin and Rising
discussion
Should the Darkling & Alina be endgame?
Darkling for the win! LOLMal is not the one, it is so plain to see. I simply don't feel his chemistry with Alina, they should just remain friends. I will be mighty pissed if Alina chooses him and not the Darkling. And I don't really consider Nikolai as an option.
They must be together! There is no other way!!!:)
Jininn wrote: "They must be together! There is no other way!!!:)"Agreed!!!!
Alina and The Darkling. There is no other option.
***This comment contains spoilers from SHADOW AND BONE and SIEGE AND STORMUmm...I'm sorry, guys (well, gals), but I just don't see this happening. Yes, the Darkling is hot. But he's...evil. Like, really evil. Like blind his own mother, mutilate Genya, destroy a whole village of men, women, and children kind of evil.
Needless to say, I am not rooting for the Darkling. And I'll be really, really surprised if Alina ends up with him.
Sorry Darkling fans! I am for Mal all the way!
I agree with Katie. The Darkling is my favorite and I would love it if he and Alina end up together, but as of the end of Siege and Storm the Darkling is a little off the handle.
I also don't think that she will end up with Mal, who wants her to be the girl she was before she discovered she was the Sun Summoner and is holding her back from her full potential.
My best bet is that she ends up with Nikolai, who would be my next choice after the Darkling.
Ashley wrote: "I agree with Katie. The Darkling is my favorite and I would love it if he and Alina end up together, but as of the end of Siege and Storm the Darkling is a little off the handle.
I also don't th..."
Hmmm. I never thought to consider that Alina wouldn't end up with anyone, but that might happen. Mal and Nikolai are both mortal, but Alina's going to live for hundreds of years. I'm really curious about how this is going to end.
Good point. I never thought about how Alina will outlive both Mal and Nikolai. Now that I think about it, I get the odd feeling that Alina might not end up with either of them because they will age and die and she will keep on living.
Gosh, all these possibilities make me want to read R&R even more.
Ashley wrote: "Good point. I never thought about how Alina will outlive both Mal and Nikolai. Now that I think about it, I get the odd feeling that Alina might not end up with either of them because they will ..."
Me too! Is it June yet???
Seriously, Mal was always so annoying. He was so NEEDY, and he always seemed to be complaining about SOMETHING. Like jeez, he needs to man up a little!!! I reeeeaaaallllyy hope Alina and the Darkling end up together. If they don't, I'll lock myself in my room and cry in the corner for the rest of my miserable life.
Danielle wrote: "Seriously, Mal was always so annoying. He was so NEEDY, and he always seemed to be complaining about SOMETHING. Like jeez, he needs to man up a little!!! I reeeeaaaallllyy hope Alina and the Darkli..."Okay, yeah, sometimes Mal is annoying. But the Darkling? With Alina? Are you and I reading the same books? I mean, after everything he did at the end of the first book, after what he did to Genya and his mother in the second book, I already know there is no way he's ending up with Alina.
Fantasy books always have happy endings, and an ending where Alina ends up with the Darkling would be beyond messed up. She would be doomed to spend the rest of her life as a slave, forced to use her power to kill people. I don't want that for Alina, and neither should anyone else. The Darkling is what he is- an incredibly hot and sexy and evil baddie who will end up getting what's coming to him in Ruin and Rising.
I feel like the Darkling is the Warner (Shatter Me). If a book was released in the Darkling's POV, so many people would change their opinion on him, like they did with Warner once his novella came out. Leigh even said that, if S&B was in his POV he wouldn't seem like a villain at all. She also said he wasn't evil. :P I have faith we're going to get A LOT of revealing of his character in R&R.(Personally when I think evil I think of Voldemort, and the Darkling may be cruel and cold but he's not like Voldemort.)
Yeah, now that you mention it, the Darkling is kinda like the Warner of the series.We can only hope that R&R will work in his character's favor like Destroy Me did for Warner.
I'm not sure how Bardugo would accomplish a major turn around for the Darkling's character, but we all know she's a master of plot twists. Maybe the Darkling will be redeemed somehow, but for me, it would need to be something major. He has a lot of blood on his hands.
I know, but I trust Leigh Bardugo's writing skills. But even if the Darkling doesn't get redeemed, he's still one of the most complex characters in the series and I'll be interested to hear his back-story (which apparently we will according to the blurb/summery.)
Leigh mentioned she won't write in Darkling's POV until the trilogy is over, which I think is a good indication that his POV would change many minds of his character. I'm glad she hasn't done it yet though. :P
A book (or novella) told from the Darkling's PoV?!?!HELL YEAH!
#moredarkling
Leigh already said Darkling is the villain because we read Alina's POV and he wouldn't be a villain if we read in his POV. Alina never tried to understand why Darkling is doing this.
I tried to read Shatter Me but I didn't care for the prose.
Gabrielle wrote: "Summertime_Blues wrote: "Yeah, now that you mention it, the Darkling is kinda like the Warner of the series.We can only hope that R&R will work in his character's favor like Destroy Me did for War..."
I enjoyed Shatter Me a lot and I would recommend it for anyone who likes dystopia,strong romance,and fast-paced novels.
For more details go to my(non-spoiler)review of it:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Why has everyone jumped on this band wagon of wanting heroines to end up with the "baddies"? I HATE IT! Although Mal wants everything to go back to being how it was before Alina was the Sun Summoner and was holding her back in the second book, but I think that was just a bump in the road. I think when she comes back from "ruin" she and Mal are going to "Rise" together as a united front, more powerful than even the Darkling. Who by the way, is a bazillion years old and tore his mothers eyes out. I don't think you can trust anyone like that, no matter how tall dark and sexy. People annoy me when they are "team baddie." Don't even get me started on Warner vs. Adam because I'm still peeved about what Ms. Mafi did to the boy I fell in love with in Shatter Me, by somehow spinning it and making the psycho the hero. I hated it happening in Ignite Me and I will hate it if it happens in Ruin and Rising. I'm begging you Leigh Bardugo, please no Darkling + Alina= Love! TEAM Mal! I want the boy and the girl to be together in the end just as the were in the beginning
My reasoning for why I root for the Darkling is simple - he has chemistry with Alina, while Mal doesn't. Mal feels more like a brother, but this is my personal impression. Plus, the Darkling is a WAY more interesting character.I don't know if he can be redeemed as a love interest at this point, I really wish Ms. Bardugo hadn't gone there and made him do certain things, but it was really Alina who pissed me off the most in Siege&Storm.
Also, books are not real life, so we can root for whoever we want. You know, the "forbidden fruit" and all that ))
I understand and agree that I was mostly angry with Alina in "Siege and Storm." And that the Darkling is intriguing, but I just feel he wants Alina for her power and that's what draws him. I really felt the connection between Alina and Mal. It just must be me, I always root for the "golden boy" or first love probably bc I married mine. Also, I detest love triangles, if this can even be called one. I guess we will see how it all plays out soon.
I just see Mal to Alina as Gale to Katniss. Had their life gone on, uninterrupted by crazy events, they would have been perfect for each other. But with everything that has happened to Alina, Mal could never fully understand or appreciate her powers and struggles. I am a little bit in love with the Darkling myself, but I think it would make the most logical sense for Alina to end up with Sturmhond. He can match her power and understand the difficulties of her position. Plus, she would be a queen, which would also make the most sense.
In a perfect world, she and the Darkling could just be together (evil or not) and life would be grand. Unfortunately it probably won't end that way. I just hope she doesn't end up with Mal. That would be boring.
You know I was for Katniss and Peeta from book one so I see your point. But I don't think Mal would've realized he wanted Alina in that way until he lost her in Shadow and Bone. I think her transformation and her no longer being around is what made him finally see her.I don't know, but I feel that Mal is going to end up being more than he seems. He has something to do with the firebird. I remember in Seige and Storm when Mal helped her kill the serpent thing, Alina felt something, maybe he's some sort of super amplifier for Alina. I don't know maybe I'm reading into it too much. Just a thought. Can't wait to see what happens and if Team Mal members (me) will get a happy ending.
Meghann wrote: "You know I was for Katniss and Peeta from book one so I see your point. But I don't think Mal would've realized he wanted Alina in that way until he lost her in Shadow and Bone. I think her transfo..."I also think there's more to Mal than we know. The Darkling himself said something interesting the first time he heard of Mal's unusual ability as a tracker, something about people not fully understanding their own gifts.
Also, I was very surprised about the fact that he is able to fight Grishas, which I think was quite surprising to everyone in the book too.
Even, when I think about it, at the very end of the book, he just came between Alina and the Darkling in the midst of all the power thing they were doing and the monsters circling around and nothing happened to him.
Also, I'm going to double check on this, but haven't they found the two creatures at the very moment that Alina and him kissed or touched? I know that's true for the stag and I think something similar happened with the dragon.
Either he's extremely lucky, or he might have some sort of power as well.
My theory is that when the Grishas came to test them as children, both Mal and Alina held back on their "gifts" because they didn't want to be separated. I don't think Mal is a Grisha, because he has just thrived, which he probably couldn't have done without using his powers. But there's certainly something going on with him.
Kelly wrote: "I just see Mal to Alina as Gale to Katniss. Had their life gone on, uninterrupted by crazy events, they would have been perfect for each other. But with everything that has happened to Alina, Mal c..."I've also thought about Gale/Katniss and Mal/Alina, and I see your comparison. The main difference is that Gale was not there with Katniss during her whole ordeal. She experienced it with Peeta and that brought them together, which to me makes perfect sense. Gale wasn't even that sad in the end, because his new love was politics.
Mal, however, is the guy who left everything behind, went looking for her and has been there for her every step of the way, literally. Alina is afraid he will not understand her, which is why she doesn't communicate with his as well as she could... and why they go through a rough patch. The thing is that he does know and understand her really well, even after her becoming the Sun Summoner.
In that I think he's very different from Gale.
There's no denying the Darkling is sexy as hell and I do think Alina loves them both, even though she has not realized it yet. But I think Mal is her guy in the end.
Cari, I agree completely! Phew, I' m thrilled to find out that I'm not the only one that thinks Mal is not a boring love interest. I went back and checked in Siege and Storm and I was wrong about the part with the sea serpent. It happens when Alina is destroying the Darkling. At the end when Mal grabs Alina away from finnishing off the Darkling, it says she feels a jolt or something or sees some sort of light. So yeah Mal has something more going on. We shall see.
So when I read about him going evil in the first book, I basically did not sleep that night, thinking up excuses that ALINA was the bad one and the DARKLING was the good one. It's complicated.basically;
1) Alina abandoned her country. BETRAYAL!
2) I like to think of the darkling as a sort of 'problem child', all that emotion!
3) What if baghra was lying?! (Ok we know that's not true)
4) What if the Darkling had an EVIL TWIN BROTHER? (at this point I was desperate)
5) ALINA NEEDS TO LOVE THE DARKLING. SHE NEEDS TO. IF SHE DOESN'T I WILL. (I can love you, darkling ;-;)
I think that there is more to the Darkling than what we currently see. However, I'm not saying the "more" we will see in R&R about him will be redeeming, but it'll give us some insight on the Darkling's character.
Yeah what's interesting is that when people ask Leigh if the Darkling will be redeemed, she says "what for?" I think this is a good indication that we will see the reasons behind the Darkling's decisions and choices. Right now we're seeing everything through Alina's eyes. And even though R&R is still her POV, we're going to get more insight to his character. (Thank goodness)
Cari wrote: "Mal, however, is the guy who left everything behind, went looking for her and has been there for her every step of the way, literally. Alina is afraid he will not understand her, which is why she doesn't communicate with his as well as she could... and why they go through a rough patch. The thing is that he does know and understand her really well, even after her becoming the Sun Summoner. In that I think he's very different from Gale."
This.
I couldn't agree more. Mal has been there for Alina since the very beginning, suffered with her, and he's taken the brunt of it. Even if it hurts him that he's seeing the woman he loves change into someone ruthless in his eyes, and even when Alina doesn't tell Mal everything, he's still there for her.
I'm pretty sure Mal will be her man in the end as well. It would completely throw off everything about Mal and Alina's bond that Leigh has already planted in her story if she ended up with the Darkling. Unless Leigh pulls off some odd miracle by having Alina throw everything under the bus concerning her love for Mal, and Mal giving up on Alina after everything he's given up for her, I don't see her with anyone other than Mal.
Alina might end up being sympathetic towards the Darkling in the end, but falling in love with him? That's just not something I can see, nor would it be convincing. She's still disgusted by the Darkling and plans to take his life even if she dies along with him. I'd call bullshit if Alina suddenly fell in love with the Darkling and forgot everything she had with Mal, because it's the last book.
An author doesn't just stress about something, in this case Mal and Alina's relationship and how much they're willing to give up to belong together, for the first two books of a trilogy just to blow it all off in the end. That would be bad writing and really confusing, IMHO.
There's also Mal's secret power that I'm pretty sure will show itself in the last book. That could be a game changer, since that can finally resolve Alina and Mal's differences.
Katie wrote: "But the Darkling? With Alina? Are you and I reading the same books? I mean, after everything he did at the end of the first book, after what he did to Genya and his mother in the second book, I already know there is no way he's ending up with Alina.Fantasy books always have happy endings, and an ending where Alina ends up with the Darkling would be beyond messed up. She would be doomed to spend the rest of her life as a slave, forced to use her power to kill people. I don't want that for Alina, and neither should anyone else. The Darkling is what he is- an incredibly hot and sexy and evil baddie who will end up getting what's coming to him in Ruin and Rising.
I'm not sure how Bardugo would accomplish a major turn around for the Darkling's character, but we all know she's a master of plot twists. Maybe the Darkling will be redeemed somehow, but for me, it would need to be something major. He has a lot of blood on his hands. "
Meghann wrote: "Why has everyone jumped on this band wagon of wanting heroines to end up with the "baddies"? I HATE IT! Although Mal wants everything to go back to being how it was before Alina was the Sun Summoner and was holding her back in the second book, but I think that was just a bump in the road. I think when she comes back from "ruin" she and Mal are going to "Rise" together as a united front, more powerful than even the Darkling. Who by the way, is a bazillion years old and tore his mothers eyes out. I don't think you can trust anyone like that, no matter how tall dark and sexy."
Same.
If the Darkling didn't have the whole seductive thing going on about him and his looks, I doubt he would be easily forgiven by the fandom. He completely disfigured Genya, threw Mal out in the fold for Alina to watch Volcra eat him right in front of her eyes, let an entire city get devoured by the volcra, and tore his mother's eyes out. Not to mention many other non-redeemable things.
Why anyone wants Alina to be with a guy who's done that, not to mention a guy who posed as Mal to molest her, is beyond me. Just no. No.
Concerning the whole "What does the Darkling have to redeem for?" answer that Leigh gave, that could mean two different things.I honestly think Leigh means that he doesn't have to become a good guy for anyone.
It would also be interesting to see what miracle Leigh would pull to excuse all the blood the Darkling has on his hands if she did happen to redeem him.
I think the Darkling is somewhat beyond redemption and as much as I hate to admit it, I doubt him and Alina will end up together. However, I believe R&R will allow us to be more sympathetic towards his character since we'll (hopefully) be given more insight on him, and honestly? I reckon Leigh Bardugo's got a trick up her sleeve about the Darkling's motivations/past that'll completely throw us off.
Responding to the previous post about the Darkling posing as Mal to "molest her." I was a little confused on that scene since it seemed to me that the Darkling was willingly choosing to get hot'n'heavy with Alina, which is strange since we were lead to believe that he had no romantic interest in her.
But obviously after that make-out session, its clear that the Darkling is attracted to Alina sexually/romantically and is not only after her power - though he is after that too.
Also when Alina earlier stated that the Darkling didn't understand love, he replied with: (I'm paraphrasing here)"I understand enough." Which would imply he feels a love of sorts towards Alina. Probably a twisted love, but a love non the less. I think he simply doesn't know how express his romantic feelings since he's never felt connected to another person that way, not that that justifies what he's done.
Speaking of attraction, when the Darkling said to Mal: "I'll be sure you hear it when I make her [Alina] scream," was he talking about tormenting her or having sex with her?
Leigh actually stated in one of her video interviews that the Darkling tries to seduce Alina. I assume it's a way for him to manipulate her.Either way, why pose as Mal, the man she loves, to feel up on her? That's just beyond creepy and actually classifies as molestation since she clearly didn't consent when she found out it was actually the Darkling in disguise. I ask why he posed as Mal, because Mal and Alina were just in a fight, and it leads me to believe he used the image of Mal to manipulate her more.
It's actually kind of funny how desperate the Darkling is if he has to pose as Mal to get Alina to reciprocate. Like ew and also no.
I think you're thinking too much about that line. The Darkling just threatened to slice off Alina's skin one by one. He was threatening Mal with the idea of torturing her to get him to find the ice dragon.
Summertime_Blues wrote: "Speaking of attraction, when the Darkling said to Mal: "I'll be sure you hear it when I make her [Alina] scream," was he talking about tormenting her or having sex with her? "My dirty mind thought he was referring to sex and used the phrase with a potentially double meaning on purpose, to antagonize Mal.
But I don't understand why you think he was not attracted romantically to her. I think it is the opposite, that ever since Shadow&Bone we were lead to believe how he had physical attraction to her, almost against his will.
But what I don't understand is why would he want to kiss Alina? Forget about posing as Mal, when kissing Alina the Darkling didn't show any signs of wanting anything from her but her affection. So the idea of using the kissing to manipulate her doesn't make any sense, why manipulate if you're going to get nothing out of it?
Simple. The Darkling enjoys tormenting and manipulating Alina. He always has. How is that new? Even when Alina agreed to become the Darkling's slave to save Mal's life, the Darkling still tried to have Mal fed to the Volcra just to torture her. What is there to gain with Mal's death other than Alina's grief? Also why would Leigh say that the Darkling tries to seduce Alina? What reason is there to "seduce" Alina?
It's just sad and pathetic if he has to resort to molesting her using Mal's body as a way to get what he wants. He obviously knows Alina is terrified of him, which is why he used Mal's body in the first place. Otherwise he would have done it as himself.
Either way, I don't approve of this sexual assault as a way to show and get affection at all. That's just wrong and extremely gross.
The Darkling truly is more than just a psychopath if he thinks molesting Alina is a way for him to feel up on her and have her affection.
Vindictev wrote: "I'm pretty sure Mal will be her man in the end as well. It would completely throw off everything about Mal and Alina's bond that Leigh has already planted in her story if she ended up with the Darkling. Unless Leigh pulls off some odd miracle by having Alina throw everything under the bus concerning her love for Mal, and Mal giving up on Alina after everything he's given up for her, I don't see her with anyone other than Mal.Alina might end up being sympathetic towards the Darkling in the end, but falling in love with him? That's just not something I can see, nor would it be convincing. She's still disgusted by the Darkling and plans to take his life even if she dies along with him. I'd call bullshit if Alina suddenly fell in love with the Darkling and forgot everything she had with Mal, because it's the last book."
You bring up so many good points and I'm so obsessed and have been thinking about this series so much lately. Here are some things that some to mind...
Does the Darkling love Alina?
I think that's a question the Darkling himself would not be able to answer. We know he wants her. He's attracted to her by a combination of factors. Probably the most important ones are her power and the fact that she tries to resist him. He's very much used to being in control and she defies him... which makes him want (to control) her more.
If we ever get to see the Darkling's POV, I'd like to see behind his many schemes to manipulate Alina... the lengths that he went to in order to make her feel isolated, to make her doubt herself and the people she loves.
After reading "The Tailor," and seeing how his idea to make Genya burn the letters worked out so perfectly in his favor, I was horrified. It's like his every move is perfectly calculated to achieve a goal. In the end, his feelings could be the result of getting lost in his own web of deception: trying to get Alina is becoming his new obsession, just as "saving" Ravka has been for all these years. It could be that the Darkling has come to admire her determination, but, imho, mostly because it reminds him of his own.
The Darkling, however, loves the power the two of them would have together. We can't forget the Darkling also loves Ravka, mostly because he's convinced he's the one destined to save it, and by that, he mostly means rule it. Last but not least, the Darkling loves Bahgra yet he doesn't hesitate in gauging her eyes out when he's displeased with her actions.
I think this last fact needs to make the whole question "Does the Darling love Alina?" pretty much irrelevant. Whether he could love her or not, it's pretty clear he could not make her happy (unless eye gauging was her thing). He loves himself the most and his brand of love, up close, is bone-chilling (as opposed to his hot persona).
Does Alina love the Darkling?
What breaks my heart about this question is that the first (and only?) person who's openly recognized that possibility is Mal himself. When they're talking about whatever went on between the Darkling and Alina (S&B, p331), Mal says "even the part of you that loved him." Mal is a good observer and from what little he saw of the two of them together, he saw Alina in love... and to some measure Genya saw it too.
Now that is not so hard to understand because the Darkling is in many ways larger than life: beautiful, powerful, etc. He gave Alina the attention she was craving and also in some measure, her first glimpse at passion.
However, as the Darkling sees this is not enough to tip the scale in his favor, he resorts to a more cunning, and effective, strategy. In S&S, he starts a campaign of "fear and difference" to erode Mal and Alina's relationship. As Alina's own sense of being different from Mal grows, the Darkling labels it as a proof that they could never be together. He anticipates her every fear and feeds it: Mal will die before her eyes and she'll live on, Mal will see her power as monstrous and will fear her, Mal will turn her into a housewife, etc.
In my opinion, this is the Darkling's biggest victory so far, and it is one that could tip the balance in his favor. This power that Alina is just starting to understand is familiar to him and that makes him seem closer in Alina's mind. His words about being the only two of their kind are constantly ringing in her ears. It could be that she'll interpret this as them meant to be together.
Let's not forget that for most of S&S Alina, unknowingly, seeks refuge in the Darkling. If we are to believe him, his "visitations" are merely (well orchestrated) responses to her own call. She feels lonely and misunderstood and there he is at every turn. While she is clearly frightened by this, it doesn't necessarily mean that she rejects it but merely that she's conflicted.
It is very telling (and worrisome) that she refuses to change a single thing in the Darkling's bedroom. This comes up again and again in S&S and she just makes up excuses. She clearly is holding on to the memory of the Darkling and perhaps the sense of certainty it brings. I think she loves to think there is someone out there who knows exactly what she is going through. They share an undeniable affinity that comes from their similar nature. A part of her will always love him for making her discover her hidden grisha-self. Alina has come to love her power and the Darkling plays a big role in that.
In the end, I think this is going to be the story about how she finds her true herself, not as defined by one guy or another but how she comes to terms with her own power and the person that she wants to be. I hope that when all is said and done she still loves Mal... which brings me to..
Mal and Zoya?
I love Mal and I hope that I'm wrong but I just have the worst possible feeling about that night when he was supposed to keep his post by the door and was nowhere to be found. For one, that is very much not like his dutiful self. On the other hand, this was all after a huge fight and he went away with his bottle of kvas... What I'm getting into is... did he go to Zoya for comfort? Is that where he spent the night? He never gives an explanation, where one was clearly needed and I see that as suspicious.
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say he would cheat on Alina but the thought has crossed my mind. Zoya is not one to miss any chances, as we have seen, and not only is she very interested in Mal, she completely hates Alina.
Zoya and Mal have some sort of relationship that I'm not sure I understand. The only time in the series where I've felt like punching Mal was in S&S when he came to Alina to sort of recriminate her that she had scared Zoya. I mean, Zoya is not someone that would need protecting and also, the conversation between Zoya and Alina was none of his business. It just made me think that they are perhaps friends, at least on Mal's part and that worries me because Zoya does not necessarily want his friendship (as much as she does his body.)
I don't buy for one second Zoya's reasons for all of a sudden being against her beloved Darkling and on Alina's side. To me, it is much more possible that she's being the Darkling's spy, just as Genya was. It would make a lot of sense to inflitrate Alina's camp and, as a bonus, to try to break her relationship with Mal. Zoya embodies all of Alina's insecurities. If for any reason, she comes to believe there is something between Mal and Zoya, Alina will loose it, which can only help the Darkling.
Bardugo hinted Zoya will play a big part of R&R and I'm not sure that will be a good thing for Alina and Mal.
And now, to leave with a bang..
The Darkling and innuendo... dun, dun, dun!
It would be very entertaining to see the scenes in the whaler between Darkling and Mal. I can only imagine all the dirty things the Darkling would keep insinuating or downright lying about just to drive Mal insane.
It is very obnoxious the Darkling is constantly playing himself as a sexual rival in front of Mal. Was I the only one who cringed and had to read twice in S&B when, to throw off Alina, the Darkling says "Did you tell him what I showed you in the dark?" (p.302) Such a gratuitous, childish sexual innuendo from someone who's supposed to be older than 14!! I mean, that was so ungentlemanly and mean, especially because, unless I somehow have a censored version of this story, there was NOTHING he showed her. Even if you think the Darkling was merely referring to their making out, it's an odd choice of words.
I do agree with Summertime_Blues that the line about making her scream was completely loaded with double meaning. Otherwise, how would you explain the parade the Darkling made everyday of him and Alina going downstairs together? And more importantly, Mal asking Alina in S&S "Did you make any other plans with the Darkling while you were holed up together belowdecks?" makes it evident it was not only the possibility of flaying he was worried about.
Mal is concerned because he hasn't gotten far with Alina and I think that's a wall they need to get past. The have been friends almost siblings for such a long time they need to see each other as lovers.. Mal needs to be more assertive in R&R. So far, he's been too concerned with Alina's reputation. That's understandable because as a soldier he knows people need to respect those in command and he didn't want to make anything to further spread rumors. The problem with that is the rumors were there anyway and he just missed a big opportunity... I mean, they were like what, 2 doors down? Oh well...
SORRY FOR THIS WALL OF TEXT!!!! <3
@Summertime_Blues. "Speaking of attraction, when the Darkling said to Mal: "I'll be sure you hear it when I make her [Alina] scream," was he talking about tormenting her or having sex with her?"Leigh was asked via Twitter about a possible double meaning in there and her response was:
"don't think it wasn't deliberate. *cackles evilly*"
"hey, just because he's ancient doesn't mean he doesn't like a little innuendo, ya feel me?"
So..there you go. Innuendo confirmed. lol
"If we are to believe him, his "visitations" are merely (well orchestrated) responses to her own call. She feels lonely and misunderstood and there he is at every turn. While she is clearly frightened by this, it doesn't necessarily mean that she rejects it but merely that she's conflicted."
I think so too. She even acknowledges that when the Darkling doesn't appear, she finds herself looking for him. I think they're both very lonely and seek the comfort in one another, even if it's in a strange way.
I'm curious with the excerpt from R&R that was released, when Alina tells the Darkling she wanted to see him, if she physically went to him or if she figured out how to visit him the way he did her.
Cari wrote: "The have been friends almost siblings for such a long time they need to see each other as lovers."Why? Can't they just remain friends? That would make more sense to me. There is anything between Mal and Alina but passion and chemistry.
Also, I loved to read your "wall of text", it's amazing how much thought you put into it. I was obsessed for a long time too. I read both books last summer and I don't remember the finer details by now, so it was good to refresh my memory of the story.
The quote from R&R I was most intrigued by was: (I'm paraphrasing) "I will strip away everything you know, everything you love until you have no shelter but mine."I don't believe Leigh Bardugo released info on who said the quote but I think it's most likely the Darkling, it sounds like something he'd say to Alina, no?
Also, the quote implies that the Darkling wants Alina to seek shelter in him, to want him, to need him, and that he's willing to go to extreme extents to achieve that.
Also, little update from Bardugo's blog that I found quite fun:
Anonymous asked: is darkling a virgin?
Bardugo's response was: I realize I probably shouldn’t indulge asks like this but omg hell no.
Bardugo then continued the reply on twitter (@LBardugo) with: HE'S BEEN ALIVE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS AND TO BE FRANK HE HAS SO MUCH GAME.
Cari,(part 1)That's EXACTLY the reason why the Darkling will never be good for Alina. He's too controlling and mercilous.
If he loved his mother and gauged her eyes out, what makes you think he won't do the same to Alina?
He may understand her because they have the same power, but that's all that's going for them. I doubt he can ever truly love Alina because he's too blinded by his own greed.
The Darkling and Alina just scream abusive relationship to me. You can't deny that he'll always want control over her.
Summertime_Blues wrote: "Also, little update from Bardugo's blog that I found quite fun:Anonymous asked: is darkling a virgin?
Bardugo's response was: I realize I probably shouldn’t indulge asks like this but omg hell no. "
LOLOLOLOL
Cari, (part 2)It's obvious that the Darkling and Zoya are the conflict of the story.
The Darkling, or the villain, is the representation of Mal and Alina's difference in power. While Zoya, or the rival, is the representation of Alina's insecurities.
Sure saving Ravka is the main priority, but you also have to admit that Alina's love life is important in the story as well, since it would have just been plot and not constantly centered around Mal and Alina's relationship.
There's an interview in the Shadow and Bone paperback that Leigh did, and in one of the questions Leigh stated that the meaning of the story is what you would sacrifice in order to belong to someone.
Automatically I think of Mal since he's the character that's sacrificed the most to belong to someone (Alina), but it can also apply to Alina's conflict with her growing powers and the affect it has on the relationship with the man she loves. Even the Book's blurb shows this,
"Somehow, she will have to choose between her country, her power, and the love she always thought would guide her--or risk losing everything to the oncoming storm."
Summertime_Blues wrote: "The quote from R&R I was most intrigued by was: (I'm paraphrasing) "I will strip away everything you know, everything you love until you have no shelter but mine."I don't believe Leigh Bardugo re..."
She said it was pretty obvious who said that quote AKA the Darkling. :P And yes, I saw that virgin question and died laughing. "So much game" rofl. She's hilarious.
@Summertime. I definitely agree. Leigh released a Shadow and Bone playlist awhile ago, and the first song she mentions is "Running Up That Hill" and she said:
"Cool, driving intensity. This is the Darkling's song. Power seduces and it isolates, and for me, this is the story of a boy king, alone in his castle. I think this is a song about both the Darkling's heart and the face he presents to the world."
I think this paragraph gives a pretty good indication of his character. He actually reminds me a little of Koschei from Deathless. (And Alina as Marya, Mal as Ivan)
"Oh, I will be cruel to you, Marya Morevna. It will stop your breath, how cruel I can be. But you understand, don’t you? You are clever enough. I am a demanding creature. I am selfish and cruel and extremely unreasonable. But I am your servant. When you starve I will feed you; when you are sick I will tend you. I crawl at your feet; for before your love, your kisses, I am debased. For you alone I will be weak.” - Koschei
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I mean c'mon, Mal? Even his name's boring.
The other dude is cool but still, my heart forever rests with the Darkling. *swoon*
I think there maybe a redemption for the Darkling what do you guys think?
Should Darking & Alina be endgame?
If so why?
If not why?
PS A fan tweeted to Leigh Bardugo "I wish to read a lot of Darking + Alina love scene."
& Leigh Bardugo replied to that fan with: "All I can tell you is that I've started calling Ruin and Rising "Ruin and Racy"
POSSIBLE DARKLING & ALINA LOVE SCENE? I mean after all, the question was directed at a DarklingXAlina relationship, possible endgame relationship? Maybe!