Gandalf vs Dumbledore

[LEX]

Dumbledore, although a wizard was still a human. I feel like that should be said.
Gandalf is not human. In LOTR Wizards are (I believe correct me if I am wrong) their own species. So in essence I believe Gandalf would in face be stronger than Dumbledore.
They are both absolutely amazing and beautifully written characters, and they both come with their own weaknesses, but who doesn't? Having weaknesses makes a good character a great character.
Dumbledore is one of the most powerful wizards in the Harry Potter universe, but he can only do so much. Gandalf's power is practically unlimited. He has lived (and died) through so much, and thus I do believe he is the more powerful of the two.
More power doesn't necessarily mean a better character. One more thing and I will be gone, although it has been said a couple of times. Why would these two be fighting? They are both such strong characters wanting the best for everyone. I'm not sure two characters full of such goodness could ever really fight each other to the death.
That's all.

[Hannah]

Gandalf doesn't enjoy using magic as often as Dumbledore. I'd definitely say Dumbledore.

[Linnea]

Yes! So true. I think now that Gandalf would win in the LOTR world, and Dumbledore would win in the HP world. HOWEVER, I still think Dumbledore would win in a duel, because he would use more of his brains and less of just using raw power. I guess now it is more of a question of which wizards are better, HP wizards or LOTR wizards?

[AmberZehr]

Talk about some heated debate!!! Im gandalf all the way for many of the reasons listed above, but I DO love the HP series and dumbledore is rather misunderstood IMO

[Parker]

Neil wrote: "Linnea wrote: "Dria wrote: "Neil wrote: "Well, it will have to be Gandalf; he's the White Wizard of all Middle Earth. Dumbledore is just a head wizard of a school, and he was brought low, not by V..."

Because he was injured by DRINKING POISON! Not by fighting the inferi, not by externally injuring himself in any way. Dumbledore was the kind of selfless person who couldn't contemplate sacrificing anyone else so he would have a little more time. The spell he was REALLY beat by was, in fact, from a real horcrux, mind you.

[Neil]

Linnea wrote: "Why go after horcruxes? Are you serious? "BAM!"? The horcruxes, if you remember, are parts of Voldemort's soul, so if you just BAM!ed him, he would live in a horcrux until he regained power. SO...t..."

Did Dumbledore really have to die in order to keep the wand in safe hands? Seriously, isn't that taking it to extremes? Malfoy didn't have to die for Potter to be the owner of the Elder wand. And it didn't keep it in safe hands since Voldemort dug up his grave and just took the wand. Why didn't he tell Severus to take the wand when he died? Or Potter. What was the plan anyway? For Severus to be the owner? Severus sure didn't know.

[Neil]

Dria wrote: "Neil wrote: "Linnea wrote: "Dria wrote: "Neil wrote: "Well, it will have to be Gandalf; he's the White Wizard of all Middle Earth. Dumbledore is just a head wizard of a school, and he was brought ..."

Dumbledore drank that poison for no reason. He could still have Severus kill him whether he was injured or not. It makes no difference to the story. So I don't see how he planned it all or why he needed to sacrifice himself for no good reason.

[Linnea]

Actually, Severus did know, because, like I said, Dumbledore had the whole thing planned out. Let me also point out that while Voldemort did possess the Elder Wand, he was still not the rightful owner of it. This is why he failed in the end. When he was injured by the ring while destroying it, he knew he would have to die sooner or later. So he planned his death out with Severus, then drank the poison in order to get a horcrux. Even though it was fake, it still helped them find the real one. So he sacrificed his life to keep Voldemort from succeeding, by finding two horcruxes and making sure Voldemort could never truly own the Elder Wand. By dying and sacrificing his life, Dumbledore essentially killed two birds with one stone, meanwhile leaving clues behind for Harry, Hermione, and Ron to discover.

[J.]

Why would Gandalf win? What spell do you know of that Gandalf cast in any of the LOTR books that convinces you that he could take Dumbledore?

I can't think of a single offensive spell that Gandalf ever cast. Can anyone give me a reference that shows Gandalf attacking with magic?

Here is how it would go:

Gandalf: You shall not pass! (Tries to protect)
Dumbledore: Accio Glamdring (Does nothing as the sword doesn't respond to that spell)
Gandalf: Whispers to a butterfly for help (because he has not attack spells and needs to escape quick)
Dumbledore: Expelliarmus (knocks at Gandalf's staff but doesn't quite knock it away)
Gandalf: Goes to cast a spell (hopefully an attack spell that we never saw in the LOTR trilogy but...)
Dumbledore: Disaparates behind Gandalf, and tries Expelliarmus again, this time hitting Gandalf from behind, knocking away Gandalf's staff.
Gandalf: Turns to Dumbledore, raises Glamdring and starts toward the Wizard.
Dumbledore: Petrificus totalus (Gandalf falls down stiff)

Fortunately for Gandalf, they wouldn't fight to the death.

Dumbledore would smile and unpetrify Gandalf. Then Dumbledore would teach Gandalf to disapparate and how to actually use attacking spells. Gandalf teaches Dumbledore to not age so fast.

You got to admit, if Gandalf had showed up to Bilbo's house, grabbed him and disapparated with Bilbo or Frodo to the mouth of Mount Doom, then a lot of lives would have been saved (but then we would have never had LOTR to read).

J. Abram Barneck
Fire Light

[Robin]

Yup. Though Dumbledore doesn't ever kill or mortally injure anyone, he definitely has greater defenses and magic than Gandalf.

[Linnea]

I absolutely agree.

[Leslie]

Dumbledore will rely too much on his magic which is exactly why Gandolf would win. Besides that Gandolf is more powerful. He fought a monster to come back from the dead.

[Karla]

I think fighting Dumbledore would be rather tame to Gandalf compared to defeating the Balrog. Dumbledore is a mortal. Gandalf a demi-god, far more powerful, and immortal. He shattered Sauroman's staff with a few words, he'd be able to break Dumbledore's wand by snapping his fingers, or blinking. Then he'd pull out his sword. At that point, Dumbledore would be done. He carries no weapon other than his wand, and probably has no skill in a sword fight, or hand to hand combat, areas where Gandalf is very adept.

Gandalf, no contest.

[Frank]

Even Allanon would kick Dumbledore's butt.

[J.]

Wait. When did Allanon get pulled into the conversation?

Allanon knew how to fight with magic. He had a lot of practice, too, especially in Elfstones. He would pose a challenge.

Both Gandalf and Allanon die fighting similar creatures (Balrog vs Jachyra). The difference is Gandalf comes back while Allanon goes and hangs out with Bremen in some murky water.

But Dumbledore had the unbeatable Elder wand, so . . .

Ahhhhh . . . Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden uses the power from Demon Reach and a bit of Winter power and takes them all.

Thank you J. R. R. Tolkien, Terry Brooks, J.K. Rowling, and Jim Butcher for making such awesome Wizards.

J. Abram Barneck
Fire Light

[Jeanie]

J. wrote: "Why would Gandalf win? What spell do you know of that Gandalf cast in any of the LOTR books that convinces you that he could take Dumbledore?

I can't think of a single offensive spell that Gandalf..."

Didn't he send a bolt of white light against the Nazgul in front of the gates of Minus Tireth when faromir was wounded?

[J.]

Hmmm . . . Gandalf used white light, but I am not sure if that would be an offensive spell or not. I'd have to look it up to see if the white light actually did damage to the Nazgul or if it just repelled them.

[Jeanie]

It has been asked why would they fight? I can't think of a reason they would, so we'd have to look for a different kind of contest, one where they faced the same test and see who comes out victorious. Well... both Gandalf and Dumbledore were in the presence of a powerful magic ring which would tempt even the strongest person to use.

Gandalf held the One Ring when he tested it by throwing it into Frodo's fire to see the writing on it, then he handed it back. Even before that he had refused to hold it for Bilbo in order to give it to Frodo, regardless of the temptation it held for him to use it for good. Rather than attempt to use the ring, he proposed it be destroyed and, along with the others of Elrond's council, sent Frodo off to do just that. He travlled for days in the presence of the Ring Bearer and never made a move to make it his own.

Dumbledore searched for and found the ring that held the Resurrection Stone and lost his head and attempted to use it, not thinking about the fact that it probably had a curse on it, and POW! he ended up with a shriveled hand and a curse that would eventually kill him if he couldn't arrange a scenario where Snape killed him first. Yes, the potion in the cave had weakened him, but the curse on the ring was why he was dying.

Even worse, Dumbledore lost his head over a stone that didn't even do what the legends said. The Invisibility Cloak didn't actually hide anyone from Death, the Elder Wand didn't prevent its owner from being killed, and the Resurrection Stone didn't actually resurrect the dead, only bring back a sort of shade of that personh. The One Ring, on the other hand (pardon the pun), was possibly even more powerful than legend had it since its true power could only be guessed at until it was used--or destroyed.

I actually love both these characters, but Gandalf's strength was greater on any scale you care to use to measure.

[Linnea]

I don't agree with you, but thanks for getting the facts right, rather than using a misuderstanding about hp against Dumbledore.

[Nicholas]

Gandalf obviously. Gandalf is a wizard that came back from the dead after he was killed fighting the BALROG. A giant flaming dragon. How are you going to beat it. Gandalf. Dumbledore wouldn't be able to take him down by a long shot. when he dies he is gone forever. Gandalf comes back stronger

[Linnea]

Again, this is a question of magic between the two worlds. Why couldn't Dumbledore use accio broomstick, aguamenti or conjunctivitis? And power is more than immortality, Dumbledore is powerful DESPITE being mortal.

[Robin]

Dumbledore totally. It isn't even a fair comparison.

[Gemma]

Gandalf's beard seemed more flowing.

But both had merits.

[Guy]

Gandalf dies and comes back to life (In the style of JESUS!)... Dumbledore just dies

[Jeanie]

Another way to compare Gandalf and Dumbledore on equal terms but not in a fight against each other... both needed surrogates to accomplish a great deed.

Gandalf needed a surrogate to bear and destroy The Ring to save the world from the Dark Lord. As soon as Gandalf suspected what Bilbo's ring might be, he began researching and performed his final test in front of Frodo. He allowed Frodo to choose by laying out the case, fully and in great detail, before anyone had to choose, leaving it open for anyone willing to bear the burden, and Frodo volunteered to take up the challenge.

The wizarding world and even the Muggle world faced the real threat of a Dark Lord. Dumbledore didn't choose Harry, but once Harry was marked out for the task--literally--he kept him in ignorance, manipulated events to both test and teach Harry, and only revealed parts of the truth when circumstances fairly well forced it on him. He knew about Horcruxes, recognized Riddle's diary as one as soon as he heard Harry's description of it, surmised Harry's link to Voldemort, and decided to hide the information and try to manipulate Harry in the mean time. Dumbledore admitted this was a mistake, but he had made that choice himself.

Well, Dumbledore was only human after all, and Gandalf was to some degree divine, but true choice can only occur when there is full knowledge and free will. Better late than never, I guess, but Gandalf had the wisdom to know Frodo deserved the truth as soon as it could be made known to him in order to make his free choice. The root of the word "wizard" is "wise". In this case, Gandalf showed the greater wisdom, and, therefore, proved to be the greater wizard.

[Linnea]

That is a good view on this discussion. However, I think Dumbledore was wise in keeping things from Harry. That allowed him to figure things out on his own terms. Where gandalf simply told frodo to do a task, Dumbledore let Harry learn how to be wise, or a better wizard.

[Luna Belle Pris]

Now I love Dumbledore but...
Gandalf has been around longer and still essentally exists in the story while Dumbledore- he gone. So already Gandalf.
Gandalf doesn't hide his motives or have heavy secrets. He is straightforward to the point. Dumbledore is weakened by his past and need to hide things. So Gandalf will use that to his advantage and most likely win a duel. Though I can see them meeting up together at the Prancing Pony later for a drink.

[Luna Belle Pris]

Abanob wrote: "Trevor wrote: "And who is Dumbledore?"

forgive him lord he doesn't know what's he saying"

LOLROTF

[Linnea]

Well, it's a question of different types of power. If you combined their powers, it would make someone invincible. Dumbledore has a lot of specific powers and mental ability that would help in a fight. Gandalf has a lot of power, but it can only be used in some certain ways, and the physical ability to travel distances and not be destroyed by Sauron. Like I have said, it is really a question of how power is used in the different worlds.

[Amy]

But what does Gandalf actually DO that is so mighty? Besides battling the Balrog, that is. He can't vanquish the Nazgul, he can't go up against Sauron. His main strength seems to be knowing things. Which is mighty in itself, but useful against a wizard who struck fear into Voldemort? Not so sure.

[Karaline Petty]

Reign wrote: "Gandalf, grey and white versions, would win. Hands down.
Dumbledore was killed in a fall from a tower.
Gandalf survived a tumble down a bottomless pit while fighting (and defeating) the Balrog.
..."

Gandalf did die when he fell down the bottomless pit, but because he sacrificed himself to be reincarnated into Gandalf the White. Similarly, Dumbledore sacrificed himself when he fell, which not only should have allowed Snape to become the owner of the elder wand (actually Draco became the owner, but he was beaten by Harry, who know can defeat Voldemort), but also allowed him to visit Harry in the place between Life and Death. Both of them effectively saved their respective worlds through this. If this is the basis for your argument, you are sorely mistaken.

Personally, I believe that the landscape and positioning would have a great effect on the battle. I'm not a LOTR expert, but I'm fairly certain that while Gandalf is stronger and has more force behind every attack, Dumbledore's spells have more variety, and so would be able to develop a more effective strategy. Gandalf's greatest strength seems to lie in his relationships with various people of Middle Earth more than with his wizarding abilities. If he could call upon the Eagles, he would win. If he couldn't, it would probably be fairly evenly matched.

[Linnea]

They are very different, much like their respective worlds. LOTR has a lot of plain power, but it cannot be used very often. HP consists of specific powers for any circumstance that might crop up. Also, Gandalf disappears a lot, where Dumbledore only goes away for urgent business with the Ministry. Has Gandalf ever even defeated another wizard?

[Jeanie]

Linnea wrote: "They are very different, much like their respective worlds. LOTR has a lot of plain power, but it cannot be used very often. HP consists of specific powers for any circumstance that might crop up. ..."

Gandalf broke the staff of Saraman and took the Mantle of The White with just a word. Plus, only Radagast the Brown and two Blue Wizads were ever specifically mentioned aside from the Gray and White Wizards. Wizard duels were never supposed to occur given what wizards apparently are in the LotR world and given their small numbers.