The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
discussion
Gandalf vs Dumbledore
Well, it will have to be Gandalf; he's the White Wizard of all Middle Earth. Dumbledore is just a head wizard of a school, and he was brought low, not by Voldermort, but by Severus Snape. While Gandalf was victorious over Sauron the Dark Lord. Even if Gandalf was still only the grey wizard, he'll still toss Dumbledore into the fiery volcano of Mount Doom.
That would be disappointing if Dumbledore won as he is basically Gandalf's doopleganger.
I think that Gandalf's talents with the magic and sword and Dumbledore's talents with complex spellweaving would be evenly matched; they would be at a standstill because Dumbledore is smart enough to have a really good spell strategy, and Gandalf is a really good fighter. They would probably give up the duel and become best friends.
Gandalf would win, not only can he use magic but also weapons so Dumbledore is going down.
Gandalf--absolutely no contest. You don't live 54,000+ years without knowing how to wipe a minor wizard of the face of the planet.
I must agree that Gandalf would win. He is one of the five wizards that came to Middle Earth if I'm not mistaken.
Gandalf is a Maia, which is essentially a demi-god and the same level as Sauron. He'd wipe the floor with Dumbledore.
Gandalf. He'd look at Dumbledore's wand and say, "oh that's cute, I got one of those too, but mines for badasses." And then he would smout his ruin on the mountain top and float through time and space. BAM!
Gandalf. While I was upset reading the books when Dumbledore died, he turns out to be pretty manipulative, and while the same could be said of Gandalf manipulating Bilbo to leave the shire, I feel like Gandalfs intentions were more well meaning. Also Gandalf continues to evolve as a wizard and Dumbledore is only a school headmaster... Need I say more.
Gandalf has the clear edge.Dumbledore, while powerful with a, as supposed, "unbeatable" wand (ironic since all its owners were defeated), is still a mere human who has been trained in the magical arts.
Gandalf, on the other hand, is of supernatural origins (The Maiar), with organically metaphysical attributes (The Istari).
Now, the magic of Harry Potter is essentially the magic of Arthurian Legend (hence the name "Order of Merlyn" thrown around so much). And since, according to some legends, that magic is of supernatural origin (Avalon) as well, it might put Dumbledore on par with Gandalf.
Personally, I doubt it. I have always regarded the magic of Arthurian Legend as undiscovered science. You can read "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" to get the jist of what I mean. In the book, "The Once and Future King", Merlyn was said to have unrecognizable objects hanging from the ceiling, but we'd recognize these objects as modern inventions, like airplanes and trains. That is because, as supposed, Merlyn lived backwards, from future to the past. The science he brought back from the future to Arthur's time is perceived as magic.
It just makes sense to me, more than the "Avalon" sources for Merlyn's powers.
This is actually seen rather prominently in Harry Potter. Remember Hermione's bag with the extension charm on it enabling it to contain more than it's physical constraints would otherwise be able to allow? Think that's impossible?
I walk around town with over 1,000 books on my person, in my pocket or in one hand, at any given moment. How? My Kindle.
Magic is merely undiscovered science. That is why I chuckle when, in the TDH movie, you hear a ton of books fall over when Hermione opens her bag to get clothes.
Back on point, however, I have always pictured Gandalf and Dumbledore as kindred spirits, and is more likely to be seen guffawing over butterbeers at the Three Broomsticks, or maybe pints of ale at the Prancing Pony, pontificating about the nature and methodology of fireworks or knitting patterns, than engaging in battle.
Hey, it could happen.
The magic of each world is different so you can't really compare... But I have yet to read The Return of the King, so my opinion might not be valid...
Gandalf. Yes i will have probably 6 friends at a war with me, and 1 or 2 backing me up. BUt seriously, Dumbledore has the most powerful wand ever. That makes him like, one of the most powerful wizards[probably at the bottom of the list at the begging] and then we have Gandalf the grey, who dies and comes back as Gandalf the white, has an awesome staff and sword, and can defeat much more bad guys than Dumbledore can, from what i know
Dumbledore. I'm sorry, but I think he would. HELLO? HE HAS AN UNBEATABLE WAND, GENIUSES! DUH! Um, Frodo and Harry might rip them apart before the end though.
But yeah. UNBEATABLE ELDER WAND? UNBEATABLE?
Oh, and all the other people with the wand weren't "beaten" because they were never dueled. The wand was usually stolen, without any magic,making it invalid.
Uh NO YOU ARE WRONG the just because Dumbledore has the wand doesn't mean he is unbeatable, it just means he has the most powerful wand. That doesn't mean he can't die, and he has to be fast with his magic, and remember, in the deathly hallows the first owner of the elder wand died by magic while he was sleeping, and Dumbledore also died by magic, the killing curse killed him
Wait, why are they fighting? Did Harry Potter steal the ring or something? Personally, I'm much more interested in the why. And I have a better question, because this one might essentially be unanswerable because their worlds are different and of different time periods.If the two worlds did collide... who would win? Dementors or Ringwraiths?
i'd say dementors, but thats mostly because i don't know what ringwraiths are and this isn't really happenening and really these are on just different planets and it's just a Q like who would win Percy Jackson or Harry Potter or Harry Potter and the guy Harry Potter is based off of
Galdalf just because without him I doubt Dumbledore would even exist. On the "Death cannot defeat Gandalf" thought, there is a suggestion in Unfinished Tales that Gandalf the White is not the same being as Gandalf the Grey (Hence his slight confusion about his name) However this is never fully suggested in narrative so since it was taken from notes is probably moot anyway.
Robert wrote: "Galdalf just because without him I doubt Dumbledore would even exist. On the "Death cannot defeat Gandalf" thought, there is a suggestion in Unfinished Tales that Gandalf the White is not the sa..."
Yeah Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White are like two different personailites of him[thats what i think] and GG is more.....talkitive and like some kind of joke and not always seriouse 247. where as GW is like.....serious 247[i haven't gotten the books yet this is all from what my friends have told me] and GG is quirky, where as GW isn't quirky
Sita wrote: "Yeah Gandalf's origins are interesting, while Dumbledore is only human, one of the later races to evolve. I suspect that because they are both essentially "good" they would become firm friends. Gan..."Yes but instead of Snape being the one to kill Dumbledore it was Malfoi. Snape said the words to the killing curse, but the spell didn't come out of Snape's wand. It came out of Malfoi's wand. So technially Dumbledore was brought low by Malfoi, not Snape. And Harry easily defeated Malfoi in a duel, thus how he then became the owner of the elder wand. The only thing about DUmbledore's death was, he knew he was going to die because he asked SNape to kill him. It probably surprised him a tiny bit of how his death actually happened, and when Snape said the spell and Malfoi killed Dumbledore, DUmbledore could have easily deflected or dodged it or made it stop. But he let it come. So really, in a way, Dumbledore was never brought low.
Yeah Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White are like two different personailites of him[thats what i think] and GG is more.....talkitive and like some kind of joke and not always seriouse 247. where as GW is like.....serious 247[i haven't gotten the books yet this is all from what my friends have told me] and GG is quirky, where as GW isn't quirky."Of course it should be noted the seriousness of the situations. Gandalf the Grey was quite serious in the tale that ran parallel to the Hobbit in the Samirilion (SP) due to the nature of the story (which explained why Gandalf ran off so much in the Hobbit, note it is part of the movie as well). But overall the Hobbit was much more whimsical (As it was written for a different audience, but is still just as good as LOTR IMO). Gandalf the Grey also became quite serious in Fellowship as the stakes were much greater.
Ringwraiths v. Dementors. Interesting segue.Now that is a matchup. Ringwraiths cannot be killed, since they are already dead. We do not know whether Dementors are mortal. They are, according to Wikipedia, phantoms. We know the Ministry limited their number at a certain point, but we are not told how this was done, nor do we know if it could be done by a Ringwraith.
A Dementor's only weapon is that happiness sucking thing they do. Since it is doubtful that Ringwraiths have no happiness to forfeit, it is doubtful that would have any effect on Ringwraiths.
We also do not know if swords, maces, or any of the weapons of a Ringwraith would have any effect on a Dementor.
Percy Jackson v. Harry Potter. Harry is powerful, but against a demigod... I don't know. I like Harry better, but a true demigod is really too powerful.
Another matchup... Aslan v. Sauron... Sauron's toast, and then Aslan would toast Melkor (or Morgoth) just for fun. Toast, toast, toast.
I'd vote the Morgol blades probably could rip apart a Dementor. I seem to recall the magical nature of the blades being quite effective against nearly everything. The nearest comparison in LOTR might be the Barrow wights which I seem to recall were deathly afraid of the Ringwraiths.
Personally I prefer Dumbledore as a character, but I think Gandalf would win any fight with him and is much more powerful. Plus, someone already brought up the point that Dumbledore probably wouldn't even exist without Gandalf. So I mean what else is there to say?
good point. I know J.K Rowling came up with Harry Potter because of a book she read as a child. In those books a child who has hair like harrys, and glasses like harrys, finds out he is a magican. J.K based Harry Potter after him[and don't say itss the other way around because she read those books before she even made harry potter] so it could be possible she also read the lord of the rings or the hobbit and decided to make dumbledore afterwards. But without Gandalf, really, there might not have been a Dumbledore
Here's a weird on, Smeagol v Voldemort? (remember Gollum is actually pretty strong). No magic, just a good old fashioned fist fight.
Steffers ~Zia~ O wrote: "good point. I know J.K Rowling came up with Harry Potter because of a book she read as a child. In those books a child who has hair like harrys, and glasses like harrys, finds out he is a magican. ..."You can draw many parallels between HP and LOTR, there's a joke picture on the internet that shows many of them and joking has JKR saying "No one will notice."
I think the influence is quite strong for JKR from Hobbit/LOTR, but I'll also say she took many of those aspects and made them her own, nothing wrong with that, writers to it all the time (Myself included) and it works on many levels if done correctly and not a direct cut and paste process.
Annemarie wrote: "Here's a weird on, Smeagol v Voldemort? (remember Gollum is actually pretty strong). No magic, just a good old fashioned fist fight."Smeagol....i'm prety sure he's a dragon.......
Robert wrote: "Steffers ~Zia~ O wrote: "good point. I know J.K Rowling came up with Harry Potter because of a book she read as a child. In those books a child who has hair like harrys, and glasses like harrys, fi..."true
Dumbledore is more manipulative.
OK well i haven't finished the hobbit or the lord of the rings and i am in harry potter and the chamber of secrets so i'd say gandalf...............................................................................................................................................................................................................
And who is Dumbledore?
Let's see. Both were willing to die for the cause the believe (as already noted), but only one had the power to return. Gandolf, but I have no reason why they would fight.
Trevor wrote: "And who is Dumbledore?"forgive him lord he doesn't know what's he saying
Trevor wrote: "And who is Dumbledore?"Uh, he's like Gandalfs dubble ganger, and he is the strongest wizard in the harry potter series and has the strongest wand ever and is a master at spell weaving
Trevor wrote: "And who is Dumbledore?"And with that statement Trevor has become officially boss!
Gandalf, grey and white versions, would win. Hands down. Dumbledore was killed in a fall from a tower.
Gandalf survived a tumble down a bottomless pit while fighting (and defeating) the Balrog.
Simple.
I wanna make Team Gandalf t-shirts.
Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog by himself and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up later with fancy new robes and everything. What a jerk.
Reign wrote: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog by himself and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up later with fancy new robes and everything..."well if i hadn't read your commet every where and if i was with you i would gasp, give you a look, or i might smack your arm. HE WAS SAVING HIS FRIENDS!
Annemarie wrote: "I wanna make Team Gandalf t-shirts."YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!
Dumbledore... handsdown
Any weapon of Morgoth would only strengthen a Dementor. Despair and pain is their substance. I do not think a Dementor would have any offensive weapon to use against any creature of Mordor, except maybe orcs, who experience a twisted form of joy and happiness, mostly from cruelty.I think Smeagol would slap Moldy Voldy around, until Voldy had Nagini come and protect him.
Gandalf. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!
Gandalf FTW! He's may not be the headmaster of Hogwarts but he's the wizard of Middle Earth. Take that, Dumbledore!
Reign wrote: "Remember that time Gandalf convinced the whole party to flee so that he could take out the Balrog by himself and not have to share any of the XP? Shows up later with fancy new robes and everything..."The phrase was "Fly, you fools!"
Bridgette wrote: "That would be disappointing if Dumbledore won as he is basically Gandalf's doopleganger."(if it is a fight to the death)I think that they would fight and fight until they both drop dead.
Gandalf all the way.
And I'll stop here because I'd give a tedious, nerdy explanation, but that would take a long time, so here's my answer.
Gandalf.
Hands down.
And I'll stop here because I'd give a tedious, nerdy explanation, but that would take a long time, so here's my answer.
Gandalf.
Hands down.
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I say Gandalf. Now before you go off and tell me how Dumbledore is much more personal and how Gandalf is missing for large hunks of the seriees, blah blah blah, hear me out. I'm saying this from a logical standpoint. Gandalf is so ridiculously powerful that even death can't defeat him. He is thrown from the face of a mountain while fighting a Balrog, but he comes back, even more powerful than before. Granted, he does have his own personal motives and is very spacey throughout the story, but he simply just have to show up and snap his fingers and he saves everybody from certain death. Dumbledore may be more, pure at heart, so to say, but he is not nearly as powerful. He's much more involved, but my point is Gandalf doesn't even half to be involved and he still is the most powerful force in the War of the Ring.
I always imagined that if they had a duel, Gandalf would kill Dumbledore then stand over him looking puzzled and then say, "But why aren't you resurrecting????!!!"