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Death Masks
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Death Masks (The Dresden Files #5), by Jim Butcher; Start Date: July 19, 2013
@ Gisela#6 – I’m thinking you’re right!
#7 – Oh, good. I got this right. ☺
#10 & #11 – Ah! Okay.
#13 – Really!
@ Lauren#3 – Oh, yes. The Red Court. Could be.
#4 – I agree; Harry had no choice.
#6 – Yes! Very biblical! You are right. And you’re right about the Eye of Thoth, too. Hmmm… **Lisa Kay puts her thinking cap on**
#8 – Now, there’s a thought!
@ShoSho#15 - yes, if we ignore the blood sucking fiends, they'll just go away. The White Council are imbeciles
#16 - I love Bob. I really hope he doesn't die. The books would be duller without him.
#20 - Puritanical?
#22 - Lol! I love how everyone notices that his duster is gone. Very cruel!
#34 - Shiro call Harry on his guilt complex and says that he is arrogant to believe that it is all about him.
Yeah! I awoke with no migraine this morning. I'm catching up fast. ☺
Lauren’s Questions & Lisa Kay’s Answers for Chapters 9-18
14. What did you think of the concept of prophecy - time is experienced differently by humans and spirits, which makes prophecy both possible but also fluid?
I actually really liked this explaination.
15. The White Council uses wards to defend itself rather than going on the offensive. Is this an effective method of fighting the Red Court?
Well, several sports teams use this method. There are pros and cons.
16. Hmmm…Bob can be killed. That's something new. Thoughts.
Eep! I hadn’t thought of this before, but it did worry me.
17. Was the Archive what you expected?
No. Not anywhere near what I expected. Love that Harry named her.
18. Ivy's mother is in a vegetative state. Do you think she knew that would happen when she decided to have a child?
I’m thinking yes.
19. Harry gives Mister coke. Is that good for cats? Have you ever given your pet anything unusual?
That is a good question; I don’t know. I guess I could look it up on Google. No, I was usually pretty careful about what I gave my cat. Still, he did eat a lot of what we ate. (tuna, chicken)
20. Charity really rubs me the wrong way! She obviously thinks her husband is incapable of making his own choices and Harry is responsible for everything bad that happens to Michael.
Yes. She’s pretty ridged.
21. The Shroud is hidden in the laundry. Was that a good hiding place?
Well, I don’t think so. It might have gotten washed!
22. What did you think of Anna's claim about the Churchmice's work ethic and the fact that she saves Harry?
It was sad about Francisca. But, eep! Anna stole Harry’s duster!
23. The headless corpse's injuries may have been inflicted with a sword. Is it possible that one of the Knights is responsible? Or perhaps a Denarian with razorblade tendrils?
Maybe a rogue Knight? Could be. I was thinking a Denarian, though.
24. Susan is going to Peru to help the locals with the Red Court. What do you think about her decision and her request that Harry join her? Was Harry's choice the right one? What do you think of the Red Court now that this info is out?
Loved that she was doing this. Makes me like her more. Yeah, Harry needs to stay where he is – he is needed in Chicago. I also think Susan asked Harry because she wanted him to know that his difficulty in saying yes was comparable to her difficulty in saying yes. **blows raspberry at Red Court** They see things they way they want to see them; drives me crazy.
25. Molly Carpenter's secret dressing ritual - does it bring back memories? What do you think of her character? Why is she suddenly in the story?
That was fun. I wasn’t too outlandish of a dresser at that age, but I had a few things (halter tops I wore braless, hip huggers that were too low, skirts that were too high) that were a little risqué. I don’t know why she’s in the story – other than to be a kind of mediator/liaison between Harry and her parents. Or maybe she’s comic relief, because I sure laughed over some things, like her response to Harry when he asked where she got the cuffs. LOL!
26. While I can't stand Charity, I can't help but admire her sticking to her principles. She dislikes Harry and blames him for the risks her husband takes but is willing to take care of him because it’s what Michael would want. Opinions?
Yes, I liked that about her, too.
27. Ah, I thought so. The Denarian with the wicked hair cut up the headless guy but did she also give him the magic germs?
I’m thinking so. But, since the operative word is ‘magic’ – I could be way wrong.
28. Hmm...Murphy's off the case. Do I smell a conspiracy?
Definitely! But, I don’t remember who Rudolph is? (Other than he is in SI.) Was he mentioned before? It makes sense that another department would want the case, if it gets them positive exposure. However, I think it is more than that.
29. Is McAnally's a good location for neutral ground?
No, but I’m a suspicious sort. Still, I guess it is the best they’ve got.
30. What do you think of Ortega's choice of second?
Thomas? See #33 below.
31. Ortega's compromise is that Harry replace Bianca by becoming a vampire. He also offers to extend his protection to Susan. Do you think he has an ulterior motive?
Eep! I’m glad Harry turned him down (was there every any doubt?), even if it would have supposedly ‘helped’ Susan. He definitely had an ulterior motive. He would have had power over Harry – and Susan!
32. Harry rejects Ortega's offer even though it would mean his survival. I guess there are some things that are worse than death.
Absolutely!
33. Thomas warns Harry about Ortega. I wonder what his real reasons are for doing so?
I don’t know. Thomas rides that fence line pretty close; he flip/flops to both sides. Still, I think for the most part he is a ‘good’ guy and I loved what he said to Harry when he asked him why he gave him a heads-up: “Life would be unbearable dull if we had answers to all our questions.”
34. Shiro certainly has Harry pegged, doesn't he?
LOL! Yes! I’m liking him more and more. And yes, as we all know, Harry can be a bit of a martyr.
35. According to Shiro, the Red Court was always going to attack the White Council. Harry's actions actually ruined their element of surprise. Ortega doesn't want peace, he merely wants to bide his time. Is Shiro right?
I think so, I think Ortega wants surprise on his side, and to strike once – and lethally. Surprise is a very effective weapon.
I'm just getting ready to start Chapter 21.
We're in more or less the same place, Lisa Kay. I didn't listen much today.
I had a super busy few days , I didn't listen much either . I'm about to start chapter 26 .Loved chapter 25 :D
I'm almost at the end of Chapter 23. I didn't make much progress. I went back to bed. **hee hee**
Yeah I know , beds look like the most appealing things on some days!but hurry , I want to discuss a few things with you :D
Okay, I'll be good and get off GRs. This is a big distraction. I'll put in my earplugs and listen while I wash dishes. Thanks for cracking the whip, ShoSho. ☺
I'm so behind! But just caught some really awesome foreshadowing! Once we're done I'll discuss it.Oh I'm still @ 26%
Gisela wrote: "I'm so behind! But just caught some really awesome foreshadowing! Once we're done I'll discuss it.Oh I'm still @ 26%"
heehee ,I think you need what I just told LK!!!
Hurry up :D
I have 13 minutes left of chapter 27
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 19-27
36. Ah! Johnny Marcone was startled by Harry’s reveal about the goon squad. Interesting. Who do you think really sent them? What about Marcone’s “balancing act” in hiring the Amazonian Miss Gard? Are we any closer to finding out why Marcone wants the shroud?
37. I’m liking the humor sprinkled throughout this book. Harry’s comment about his and Kissinger’s charm, where Harry learned to dance… the little yellow duck. You?
38. I’m enjoying Martin more than I thought I would, too. He’s coming in handy in a pinch. Comments.
39. Eep! Harry’s been shot! I didn’t think Anna Valmont would do it, did you?
40. First impressions of Nicodemus? Second? (I’ll admit he got worse and worse.)
41. What about Susan kicking butt?
42. Were you suspicious of Nicodemus’s hangman’s knot? Do you think that is how Harry will defeat him?
43. And Nicodemus respected Harry’s mom? That doesn’t’ sound good, does it?
44. Did Nicodemus speak true; is Harry afraid of what he could be, to take what he wished? Was Nicodemus telling him something when he spelled out how unique Harry is?
45. Were you surprised Harry said no to the coin relatively easily?
46. Thoughts on Deirdre and that father/daughter kiss? (Ick!)
47. Unfortunately, that probably explains why Shiro was able to trade Harry for her. Did Shiro make a good deal? Do you, like Harry, think Shiro is still alive, given his history with Nicodemus? What of Fidelacchious?
48. Whoa. I wasn’t expecting that (view spoiler), were you? Comments on the before –during – after.
49. I didn’t understand the Lasciel – the Seducer, the Webweaver, and the Temptress – reference, did you? Or did I miss something?
50. And Harry is duped by yet another woman. Though, I must admit I didn’t get suspicious until she said she need to get cleaned up. Then I thought of Anne going out the bathroom window.
51. What did Forthill’s tattoo reveal to Harry?! Or did you turn the page to the next chapter to find out?
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 19-27 36. Ah! Johnny Marcone was startled by Harry’s reveal about the goon squad. Interesting. Who do you think really sent them? What about Marcone’s “balancing act” in hiring the Amazonian Miss Gard? Are we any closer to finding out why Marcone wants the shroud?
It was interesting .At first I thought it was Hendriks who did on his own without Marcone knowing but I'm not sure anymore( Someone who looked like him?)! I didn't think that Marcone would do such a thing. I know he'd seen some supernatural stuff but I didn't think he would hire someone to protect him against the supernatural ! I don't why he wants it , what if it's not Marcone who wants the Shroud ?! Was Miss Gard a wizard/witch? what was she?
37. I’m liking the humor sprinkled throughout this book. Harry’s comment about his and Kissinger’s charm, where Harry learned to dance… the little yellow duck. You?
Loving it , it makes it lighter. The events in this seems to be darker than the previous books so the humor balance it out!
38. I’m enjoying Martin more than I thought I would, too. He’s coming in handy in a pinch. Comments.
I was surprised that he is half turned like Susan .Yep he is handy
39. Eep! Harry’s been shot! I didn’t think Anna Valmont would do it, did you?
That B*tch :P I don't like her character . She STOLE Harry's Beetle!!!!!!!!!!!!
40. First impressions of Nicodemus? Second? (I’ll admit he got worse and worse.)
I thought just another baddie !it seems he is The Baddie
41. What about Susan kicking butt?
I was impressed . (Sorry Lauren) but I really like Susan .I was cheering her the whole time
42. Were you suspicious of Nicodemus’s hangman’s knot? Do you think that is how Harry will defeat him?
It has to be destroyed or at least be taken from him . It seemed weird to me but I didn't guess that it could have some kind of power
43. And Nicodemus respected Harry’s mom? That doesn’t’ sound good, does it?
no , the more hints we read about Harry's mom I get more suspicious of her , I don't think she's been a good person . it seems Harry has siblings .I'm really curious about his mom's past
44. Did Nicodemus speak true; is Harry afraid of what he could be, to take what he wished? Was Nicodemus telling him something when he spelled out how unique Harry is?
Yes He is a bit right about that. He's afraid to turn into someone like Justine ! I think he's unique don't know how. about the things Nicodemus told him , he told him he'd come to his true powers in another century , is it the same for all the wizards ? or just for Harry?
45. Were you surprised Harry said no to the coin relatively easily?
not really
46. Thoughts on Deirdre and that father/daughter kiss? (Ick!)
What Harry saw was the humans that are carrying the demons kissing . I think it's the demons that are father and daughter or at least one has created the other one . They are not biological father/daughter
47. Unfortunately, that probably explains why Shiro was able to trade Harry for her. Did Shiro make a good deal? Do you, like Harry, think Shiro is still alive, given his history with Nicodemus? What of Fidelacchious?
yes he's still alive . Harry will return it to him . I felt sorry for Susan when She couldn't touch it
48. Whoa. I wasn’t expecting that (view spoiler), were you? Comments on the before –during – after.
NOPE but loved it. I was expecting to fade into black any seconds but it didn't . I think JB did pretty good job of writing it.I believe this will be the last time they were together . and I kept remembering Maddie's comment about tying her up!!!LOL
49. I didn’t understand the Lasciel – the Seducer, the Webweaver, and the Temptress – reference, did you? Or did I miss something?
It was just the demon that Nick offered to Harry. I want to know why he offered a rebel demon to him ,one who wouldn't follow him easily
50. And Harry is duped by yet another woman. Though, I must admit I didn’t get suspicious until she said she need to get cleaned up. Then I thought of Anne going out the bathroom window.
Me too . Poor Harry !Can I say this again? That B*tch!!! I liked Susan's reaction .
51. What did Forthill’s tattoo reveal to Harry?! Or did you turn the page to the next chapter to find out?
That the dead man in the morgue was father Vincent and the father Vincents that we saw wasn't the real deal or at least not after Harry saw the body. It was one of the Denarians wanting Harry to find the Shroud for them. That's why they showed up both times exactly after Harry found the Shroud.
No I haven't turned the page yet
About the prophecy , what did Harry mean when he told Nicodemus that he was the one who edited the prophecy? did he mean he is the reason why the Knights only know half the prophecy or he meant something else?
Still on chapter 21 (I've had a bout of tinnitus but its gone now so I'm back with Harry).Avoiding spoilers, avoiding spoilers!
@ ShoSho#36 – I don’t know exactly what Miss Gard is, but Harry seems to think she is the one who set up the wards at Marcone’s residence – the ones that hurt Bob so bad. So, she’s able to perform magic.
#37 – Very true. I also liked the line from Harry earlier, “You guys stay here and Mulder it out.” And “I'm a disciple of the Tao of Peter Parker, obviously.”
#38 – Yes, makes me want to learn a little bit more about the Fellowship of St. Giles. Is he, like, her sponsor?
#39 – And don’t forget his duster! Well, she is a thief. ☺
#40 – I thought the same at first, too. But you’re right: he’s The Big Fuc#er.
#41 – I wasn’t crazy about Susan in the first few books, either. And I still think it is her fault, not Harry’s, for her partial vampirism. However, I’ve come to like her more and more. Seems like she not only been practicing Tai Chi, but watching the Matrix movies to learn some moves, too.
#42 – Oh! I did. It was like a flashing neon sign to me. **Lisa Kay secretly thrilled she caught something before ShoSho – for once!**
#43 – Well… Harry has “family” – I don’t know if they are siblings or not.
#44 – I don’t know!! I can’t filter what was about all wizards and what was unique to Harry.
#45 – I figured Harry would be able to say no, I just thought whatever thing they tempted him with would be bigger or more drawn out.
#46 – Huh? You lost me. Wait, I got it. No, no, I don’t. Huh? Never mind. I got it for sure now.
#48 – I must say, I was impressed with JB’s ability to pull that off.
#48 – Maddie? You mean Molly?
#49 – Oh. I didn’t get that part. Thanks. And, yes, that does raise other interesting questions: why her? and why female?
#50 – LOL! Yes, you may say it again. Yes, loved Susan’s response. **hee hee**
#51 – Eep! Really?! I wouldn’t have guessed that! You are so clever.
ShoSho wrote: “About the prophecy, what did Harry mean when he told Nicodemus that he was the one who edited the prophecy? Did he mean he is the reason why the Knights only know half the prophecy or he meant something else?”
I think Nicodermus meant he waylaid “an angelic messenger” to keep Harry out of all this. So, yes, the Knights only know half. Did you notice he almost mentioned he knows how to drive a chariot? Man-oh-man. He is old.
Lauren wrote: "I've had a bout of tinnitus..."I've had that several times in my lifetime. Ugh. Glad you are better, Lauren. ☺
Thanks Lisa Kay. In the words of Albus Dumbledore: "Alas, earwax!"
I know what Gard is znd I'm not telling! But remember her in future books she'll team up with Harry.
Lauren's answers to Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 19-27:36. Ah! Johnny Marcone was startled by Harry’s reveal about the goon squad. Interesting. Who do you think really sent them? What about Marcone’s “balancing act” in hiring the Amazonian Miss Gard? Are we any closer to finding out why Marcone wants the shroud?
My initial thought was the Hendricks was acting on his own rather than on Marcone's orders and that is why Johnny looked a little startled. But then I would have to ask why and I have no answer to that.
I was under the impression that he hired Miss Gard as protection against Harry's magic.
37. I’m liking the humor sprinkled throughout this book. Harry’s comment about his and Kissinger’s charm, where Harry learned to dance… the little yellow duck. You?
The duck scene was precious!
38. I’m enjoying Martin more than I thought I would, too. He’s coming in handy in a pinch. Comments.
Yeah, Im starting to warm up to Martin too. Does Martin have the weird tattoos as well? I can't remember. If so, I wonder what type of outcast he is - also partially vampire?
39. Eep! Harry’s been shot! I didn’t think Anna Valmont would do it, did you?
After she stole his duster? She's capable of anything. Now she's stolen the Blue Beetle. The cheek of that woman!
40. First impressions of Nicodemus? Second? (I’ll admit he got worse and worse.)
UGLY!!!
41. What about Susan kicking butt?
Yeah. She has some moves on her.
42. Were you suspicious of Nicodemus’s hangman’s knot? Do you think that is how Harry will defeat him?
I haven't really given it much thought to be honest.
43. And Nicodemus respected Harry’s mom? That doesn’t’ sound good, does it?
I'm still stuck on Harry being her youngest child. What's up with that? Does Harry have siblings?
44. Did Nicodemus speak true; is Harry afraid of what he could be, to take what he wished? Was Nicodemus telling him something when he spelled out how unique Harry is?
I think that Nicodemus may just have hit the nail on the head. Harry even admits as much. He has had darker thoughts in the past. Not that Harry would ever act on them.
45. Were you surprised Harry said no to the coin relatively easily?
It is a similar decision to the offer that Ortega made - why would he reject one and not the other.
46. Thoughts on Deirdre and that father/daughter kiss? (Ick!)
*Skin crawling*
47. Unfortunately, that probably explains why Shiro was able to trade Harry for her. Did Shiro make a good deal? Do you, like Harry, think Shiro is still alive, given his history with Nicodemus? What of Fidelacchious?
I think that Shiro is still with us. Nicodemus wants to torture him.
48. Whoa. I wasn’t expecting that (view spoiler), were you? Comments on the before –during – after.
Could have done without that - unnecessary to the storyline and the character development.
49. I didn’t understand the Lasciel – the Seducer, the Webweaver, and the Temptress – reference, did you? Or did I miss something?
Need more info on this person - perhaps it is supposed to be Lilith or I'm over thinking it.
50. And Harry is duped by yet another woman. Though, I must admit I didn’t get suspicious until she said she need to get cleaned up. Then I thought of Anne going out the bathroom window.
Harry is such an idiot when it comes to women.
51. What did Forthill’s tattoo reveal to Harry?! Or did you turn the page to the next chapter to find out?
Obviously Forthill, Vincent and the headless guy in the morgue all belonged to some secret society. Perhaps another member is behind much of what is going on. Have no idea who though.
@ Lauren#36 – I had that same thought about Hendricks! And, yes, that is the impression I got: Marcone hired Miss Gard as protection against Harry. Specifically Harry, too. Very interesting. Makes me wonder if he knew Harry would be up against him in pursuit of the Shroud.
#37 – **chuckles** Wasn’t it, though?
#38 – Yes, I think Martin does. So, he is part of the Fellowship of St. Giles. Almost seems like AA to me. LOL!
#42 – Youngest child? I missed that part. I’ll have to re-read it.
#45 – True.
Gisela wrote: "I know what Gard is znd I'm not telling! But remember her in future books she'll team up with Harry."You stinker! (view spoiler)
@ShoSho#41 - that's OK. Even Susan can have her moments, lol!
#51 - yes, that makes perfect sense much more than my explanation.
@ Lisa Kay About Martin , I don't think he's her sponsor . about the fellowship and the half turn , does it give them longer life span?
LOL about the matrix comment !you're right
You're so clever !I didn't the neon sign!!!** pouts **
What do you mean by family? his parents are dead ,he might have uncles and aunties ?
Yes Molly ! I knew it wasn't her name but couldn't remember it and couldn't go back in audio to find it!
Gisela wrote: "I know what Gard is znd I'm not telling! But remember her in future books she'll team up with Harry."Can't wait for harry to ogle her!!! you know that he would!heeheee
@ Lauren 38. He's got the tattoos and all the people in the fellowship are half turned by Red court.
48. Really? It's so interesting how we read(listen to) the same thing and have different feelings about it.
I finished it ! Gisela are you up for the last set Qs?Do you want me to do it?
There's so much I wwant to comment on! Just remember that Butcher is great at foreshadowing and things people say or do that seem irrelevant hint at things to come in later books. 44- Remeber in the last book that a council member (can't remeber who! Maybe Ancient Mai?) mentions something along the lines of "Remember what he was meant to be"?
Sure ShoSho, I'll post them tomorrow. Btw, out of pure academic curiosity, how do you picture Kincaid?
A tall broad shouldered scottish man , a gun for hire and he has to be handsome , maybe with stubbles .I don't think he has any magical powers , he just knows and seen a lot . so how do you picture him?
I meant do you have visuals? *hint hint*
Is he wearing yellow?
I'm trying to find him right now
Oh my! I approve!
Oh, yes. Y.U.M.
Oh yes, that's how I pictured his face, but with shorter hair.
Gisela wrote: "Oh yes, that's how I pictured his face, but with shorter hair."a military buzz cut maybe?
Yes, he struck me like the military type. Besides in a fight the hair wwould be too short to grab and I think that's something Kincaid would think of.
Whew! There's so much going on in the last few chapters! 52- Were you surprised that (view spoiler)?
53- What did you think of Quintus Cassius playing with Michael’s morality and of the revelation of the Knight’s purpose?
54- Were you surprised by Sanya’s revelation? Do you think it makes sense for Sanya to claim to be agnostic after being a Denarian and while wielding a Holy sword?
55- “People like you always mistake compassion for weakness. Michael and Sanya aren’t weak. Fortunately for you, they’re good men.” I loved Harry’s defense of Michael and Sanya. “Unfortunately for you, I’m not.” Harry contrasts himself with Michael and Sanya, do you think he really believes he’s not a good man? Why or why not?
56- Ortega has presented himself as having old-fashioned honor and yet he(view spoiler). What did you think of that?
57- Just a comment. Seems Thomas is not quite the airhead he seems, and I'll be honest he's one of my favorite sidekicks, along with Murphy of course.
58- Shiro took Harry's place and now Harry has custody of Fidelacchius. Do you think that Nicodemus is afraid of Harry like Shiro says? Why or why not?
59- Were you surprised that Harry called Marcone for backup? Did you like him as a sidekick?
60- Harry's comment about Wagner is another example of the humor Butcher uses throughout the series. I thought it funny that already Gard had "Ride of the Valkyries" on hand.
61- Harry figured out Nicodemus’s weakness, had you figured it out too or were you surprised?
62- I laughed out loud when Harry woke up in the morgue!
63- Shiro’s letter! Thoughts?
64- Susan and Harry end of story?
65- Remember Asteroid Dresden and Ebenezar’s innocent search for a telescope? It wasn’t so innocent after all!
66- What did you think of the reason Marcone wanted the Shroud? Did it change your perception of him?
67- Harry ends up with Lasciel’s coin. Why did Nicodemus offer that particular coin to Harry? What consequences will Harry face for picking it up?
68- Any last thoughts?
I'll get to them in the morning! That annoying little girl was on GR all afternoon
Lauren's answers to Gisela's questions for chapters 28-3352- Were you surprised that (view spoiler)?
I wasn't surprised because ShoSho guessed as much - thanks Shosho! I was surprised that Marcone figured it out - I wonder how he did that.
53- What did you think of Quintus Cassius playing with Michael’s morality and of the revelation of the Knight’s purpose?
Evil is very clever and manipulative. While I personally find the Knight's purpose to be naive, I can understand it within the dictates of Christina ideology - redemption above vengeance.
54- Were you surprised by Sanya’s revelation? Do you think it makes sense for Sanya to claim to be agnostic after being a Denarian and while wielding a Holy sword?
No, I wasn't surprised. I guessed that he had once been a Denarian when Ursial called him a traitor. I doesn't really make sense to me but it makes sense to him.
55- “People like you always mistake compassion for weakness. Michael and Sanya aren’t weak. Fortunately for you, they’re good men.” I loved Harry’s defense of Michael and Sanya. “Unfortunately for you, I’m not.” Harry contrasts himself with Michael and Sanya, do you think he really believes he’s not a good man? Why or why not?
I think that Harry really believes he is not a good man. He believes that there is darkness within him and even though he is obviously a good and caring man who puts others ahead of himself, he is incapable of seeing that. It is his guilt complex at work.
56- Ortega has presented himself as having old-fashioned honor and yet he (view spoiler). What did you think of that?
Again, I wasn't surprised. There are enough hints throughout that his "honor" is questionable. Shiro says that he needs Harry to die so that the vampires can have peace and sit back and plan the rest of the war at their leisure - not exactly honorable.
57- Just a comment. Seems Thomas is not quite the airhead he seems, and I'll be honest he's one of my favorite sidekicks, along with Murphy of course.
I agree. Thomas is one of my favorite characters in the series (with Murphy). He plays the fool but he is actually very intelligent.
58- Shiro took Harry's place and now Harry has custody of Fidelacchius. Do you think that Nicodemus is afraid of Harry like Shiro says? Why or why not?
Yes. Nicodemus is afraid of Harry even more so now that Harry knows his weakness. I;m not sure why he was afraid of Harry before. Maybe it has something to do with Nicodemus's relationship with Harry's mother.
59- Were you surprised that Harry called Marcone for backup? Did you like him as a sidekick?
was surprised by this (finally). In retrospect though, Marcone was the perfect choice. He wanted the Shroud and Harry could trust him to help get it. Marcone is a very interesting character. I can't say that I like him because his actions and motives are not pure but he is a man of his word and honorable in his own way (unlike Ortega).
That scene were Michael, Harry and Marcone are facing Nicodemus was great. The white, the grey and the black so to speak.
60- Harry's comment about Wagner is another example of the humor Butcher uses throughout the series. I thought it funny that already Gard had "Ride of the Valkyries" on hand.
This made me laugh.
61- Harry figured out Nicodemus’s weakness, had you figured it out too or were you surprised?
I knew that the rope was the way to defeat Nicodemus but I didn't think Harry would strangle him with it.
62- I laughed out loud when Harry woke up in the morgue!
Poor Harry - just his luck!
63- Shiro’s letter! Thoughts?
This was very poignant. It made me like Shiro even more that he didn't leave Harry to blame himself for his death.
64- Susan and Harry end of story?
I hope so. This relationship cannot go anywhere and it needs to end.
65- Remember Asteroid Dresden and Ebenezar’s innocent search for a telescope? It wasn’t so innocent after all!
Now this was a huge surprise! I loved it. Very appropriate demise for Ortega. I was kind of worried that we hadn't seen the end of him.
66- What did you think of the reason Marcone wanted the Shroud? Did it change your perception of him?
My perception of him hasn't changed but I do have a little more insight into his character. I really felt for him in this scene - he obviously loves her very much.
67- Harry ends up with Lasciel’s coin. Why did Nicodemus offer that particular coin to Harry? What consequences will Harry face for picking it up?
I had to ask myself why Harry didn't turn the coin over to Michael. I have no doubt that there will be consequences but have no idea what they will be.
68- Any last thoughts?
I'm kind of disappointed that Nicodemus didn't get his comeuppance but I guess it is something to look forward to in the future.
@Lauren52- I wondered about that too!
59- I thought it was an interesting scene to say the least. I like how you put it , the white, the grey and black. Marcone is interesting as a character as you say. Once he had the Shroud he had no reason to help Harry and Michael, yet he fished them out.
63- Seems Shiro noticed Harry's guilt complex too!
66- Love? Do you know who she is?
52- Were you surprised that [ Father Vincent was actually a Denarian in disguise and that Marcone figured it out before Harry did (hide spoiler)]? Heehee not really . I was suspicious of him from the beginning and when Harry talked to father Forthill about the tattoo I understood what's going on !
53- What did you think of Quintus Cassius playing with Michael’s morality and of the revelation of the Knight’s purpose?
They way the see the word , black and white , is not necessarily a weakness but if they want to stick to their beliefs , they are restricted in their actions . I like that they are not judges
54- Were you surprised by Sanya’s revelation? Do you think it makes sense for Sanya to claim to be agnostic after being a Denarian and while wielding a Holy sword?
I thought as much when Ursiel called him a traitor ! I'm not sure , I can't think about it too hard but I like how it worked out
55- “People like you always mistake compassion for weakness. Michael and Sanya aren’t weak. Fortunately for you, they’re good men.” I loved Harry’s defense of Michael and Sanya. “Unfortunately for you, I’m not.” Harry contrasts himself with Michael and Sanya, do you think he really believes he’s not a good man? Why or why not?
He does and he thinks at least once in every book and all goes back to his encounter with Justin and use of black magic.
56- Ortega has presented himself as having old-fashioned honor and yet he(view spoiler). What did you think of that?
Vampires are not trustworthy , doesn't matter how they present themselves . I wasn't surprised because of Thomas's warning. I would have been surprised if Ortega had followed the rules !
57- Just a comment. Seems Thomas is not quite the airhead he seems, and I'll be honest he's one of my favorite sidekicks, along with Murphy of course.
I read the blurb for the next book it seems he is has a big role in it . I like him
58- Shiro took Harry's place and now Harry has custody of Fidelacchius. Do you think that Nicodemus is afraid of Harry like Shiro says? Why or why not?
He seems afraid but I don't know the reason , it could have something to do with his mother
59- Were you surprised that Harry called Marcone for backup? Did you like him as a sidekick?
Yes . It was smart move and I didn't expect Harry to think of it. It was weird seeing him as side kick but it worked
60- Harry's comment about Wagner is another example of the humor Butcher uses throughout the series. I thought it funny that already Gard had "Ride of the Valkyries" on hand.
yep funny
61- Harry figured out Nicodemus’s weakness, had you figured it out too or were you surprised?
I think Shiro told him that the noose is important in defeating Nicodemus or did we talk about it?! no I wasn't surprised , I was expecting something like that
62- I laughed out loud when Harry woke up in the morgue!
loved it and he was still thinking that he was dead when he saw Michael !
63- Shiro’s letter! Thoughts?
who told those details to Shiro?!
So accurate the things Shiro told him about struggling with darkness and that his world is grey
64- Susan and Harry end of story?
yes at least romantically they are finished , they might cross path in the future!
65- Remember Asteroid Dresden and Ebenezar’s innocent search for a telescope? It wasn’t so innocent after all!
Yes I remembered it very well . JB doesn't bring anything to the story unless he wants to use later . It was a hilarious way to get of rid of Ortega
66- What did you think of the reason Marcone wanted the Shroud? Did it change your perception of him?
a bit changed but not much.He is still not a good person . But I could remember from their soul gaze that Harry thought he had a secret! Is she his daughter ?
67- Harry ends up with Lasciel’s coin. Why did Nicodemus offer that particular coin to Harry? What consequences will Harry face for picking it up?
He gave it to him to give him a constant temptation but there could be something more to it . Why didn't Harry gave it to Michael to keep it with others they had? I thought his hiding place was stupid . There will be consequences but don't know what!
68- Any last thoughts?
Yes ! A few things , first : Ursiel mentioned an Egyptian , we thought that's the body in the morgue , but it can't be ! Father Vincent was Italian and the Knights didn't know about his murder at that time.
Second ,I liked to know if the girl was healed or not.I thought Harry would help Marcone and draw a circle and use magic to heal her. I was disappointed !
Third, we'll see more of Nicodemus , he'll be in another book , I hope Harry destroys him. this book didn't feel completed with him alive .
Romance Lovers for the Challenge-Impaired
Books mentioned in this topic
Changes (other topics)It's in His Kiss (other topics)
Web of Lies (other topics)
Death Masks (other topics)
1. Were you surprised that Harry had been on the television show before?
Yes! I was trying to remember if that was in any of the books.
2. Do you remember Morty? He is the guy who left the city when thing started to go scary in book 3 (I think) He doesn’t want to be seen with Harry on the street so they decided to meet on a set of a TV show! Add to that the other 2 guys the priest and the vampire had the same idea. Does this make sense? Was it logical?
I vaguely remember someone leaving town, after you mentioned it here, but, no, I don’t remember Morty per se. I kind of thought meeting not only in “plain sight” but in front of everyone was clever, cute, and funny. LOL! I don’t know about the two. **shrugs**
3. Morty said someone blocked him from finding Susan’s exact location, any idea who?
Nope. I haven’t a clue. I’ll take a wild guess and say Martin.
4. Did he do the right thing by accepting Ortega’s duel? Will they go through with it? If Harry kills Ortega will the war end?
I’m betting Harry will meet Ortega for the duel. I don’t know if he’ll be the one to kill him, but Ortega will die. Regardless, the war will not be over.
5. Aaaawwww the kiss! I feel really sorry for Harry, but I think he should move on! Do you agree? Do you think Susan is really with this guy? Why is she quitting her job? What is the new job she’s got?
Yes, that kiss was really something. Or should that be ‘The Kiss’? Anyway, I wonder why Mister, Harry’s cat, was freaked out like that; makes me suspicious. Or maybe he just picked up on the potency/venom of ‘The Kiss’? Yes, Harry should move on; alas, we can’t turn our feelings on an off like a faucet. I don’t think Susan is “with” Martin in that way. I think she’s quitting her job for a variety of reasons: she’s moving on; she’s found something much better. I don’t know who she’s working for, though. Does the supernatural have a newspaper?
6. That was a gruesome scene in the morgue. Did Ursiel or one of the other fallen kill the headless man in the morgue? Was he the Egyptian Ursiel mentioned? Why was he tortured, did he have some information? Was he one of the knights?
Yes, gruesome is an excellent word for the corpse. Ugh. Hmmm… you could be right, it was probably Ursiel. I didn’t catch Ursiel mentioning an Egyptian (I’ll have to go back and look). Yes, I’m betting tortured. Hmm… yes, a knight is a good guess; I’ll go with that.
7. Do you think “Ursiel! Let him go! You have no power here!” means anything significant? They kept repeating it over and over.
Sort of like the Jedi mind trick? LOL! Could be! But I thought it was to give Rasmussen a chance to escape, wasn’t it?
8. Why did Ursiel call Sanya a “traitor”? What do you think about him and his beliefs? Thoughts on Sanya’s character?
I was just thinking they had once been comrades.
9. Why was Ursiel telling Shiro about getting old? Was he tempting him with immortality? Thoughts on Shiro’s character?
I was just thinking it was because he was getting old; I didn’t think about immortality. As far as his character…**shrugs** He was Michael’s teacher; he’s old and wise; he has a sense of humor.
10. So there is an order called Denarians who temp the mortals with the silver coins (that have fallen angels inside them) and they want both Harry and the Shroud. Even Bob is scared of them. Will they get to Harry to tempt him? What about that cliff face? What is that?
First, I find it interesting that there are “thirty” of them – “thirty pieces of silver (I got that before they spelled it out). Yes, it doesn’t bode well that Bob is afraid of them. Can’t help you – or myself – with the cliff face. Yes, I think Harry will be tempted; I’m wondering what with? Susan again?
11. Summoning the oracle in a cabbage patch doll was funny, I kept imagining the doll drinking the whisky and chewing the tobacco. I thought he got the whereabouts of the thieves and the Shroud too easily! What about you?
Yes, funny. That was a little strange that it came so easily, but I didn’t really think on it because Bob told him to seek her out.
12. Who do you think has stolen the Shroud? What does it have to with Gentleman Johnny Marcone?
I haven’t a clue, but it does make me suspicious as to why he sent goons after Harry; that could be the reason. But then, why would GJM want it?
13. “Should you seek the Shroud, Harry Dresden, you will most assuredly perish.” “If you do not, they all die. And this city with them.” this is the complete prophecy. Comments?
That doesn’t sound good! This will make Harry more determined, if he is worried about someone else (i.e. the city) if he doesn’t do something. Of course, we don’t know which city is “this city,” do we?