Complaint Department discussion
What I really hate about...
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What I really hate in m/m romance stories
Arse or Ass? They both sound good in front of ....hole! But that's more in a cussing way. In a descriptive sexy seductive love scene way - not so much!
Goesta wrote: "Macky wrote: "Arse or Ass? They both sound good in front of ....hole! But that's more in a cussing way. In a descriptive sexy seductive love scene way - not so much!"My understanding: British ars..."
Yes Arse and backside are very British and blunt so not sexy at all. Ass sounds more flirty so better. Toosh! Butt! Fanny ( that's a funny one for us Brits cos its another name for lady bits!). Rear! Bum! Bottom! Buns! Booty!sweet round peach! ........
I hate vampires, werewolves, shifters in M/M romance. I mean, come on.... almost EVERYONE is writing about them! Supernatural is supposed to be fantasy... Can't they make up NEW supernatural creatures??? I dont mind ghosts...
Goesta wrote: "I've met one werewolf I like, who likes one fairy I like. Other than the ones in Colfer in and Pratchett (if the Mcwhatevers are fairy-type creatures, I forget). There are more newly invented creat..."
Werewolves are sad creatures.
Werewolves are sad creatures.
Lucas wrote: "I am also the very proud owner of three of his graphic novels (comic books) including: Hot For Boys: The Sexy Adventures Of Rogue 94 pages in super porn erotic color; Bike Boy 96 pages of guys with artistically erect correct members and beauteous bubble bottoms and with penetrative insight into gay male sex; and more of the same only with copulating copious, gorgeous, orgy filled panels on 96 pages in Bike Boy Rides Again. The books are astonishingly in their beauty and detail. "Just butting in :) to say that during my visit to The Bookshop in Paddington recently I saw a whole stack of Zack's graphic novels. NowI see what you (and many others) have been talking about!
Some gay porn borders on gay romance. The books of Jack Brighton/Fergie Boy/Tom Farrell (all the same guy) are of varying quality. His Fergie Boy novels eg "Man in the Box" series and "A Week in Provence" for example are worth checking out.
He self publishes and can be bought on Amazon or via Smashwords.
A.B. wrote: "Just butting in :) to say that during my visit to The Bookshop in Paddington recently I saw a whole stack of Zack's graphic novels...."On his behalf (as loving partner and greedy agent), Zack, a.k.a. Oliver Frey, would love to do a real graphic novel – it's been talked about for donkeys' years – and considers the likes of Rogue and the newer Bike Boy as "mere" comic strip books. Bruno Gmünder, who publish the books, are chasing for a third Bike Boy-style book, and some strips in embryo exist, particularly , about a spanking new pair of jeans that pass by intention or accident through the hands of several young men, until there's little left of them as a pair of bare cut-offs. But he hasn't had the time to get to grips because of other commitments (including illustrations for Boys of the Fast Lane> and Blood and Lust). The problem with comic-strips and even more with proper graphic novels is the enormous amount of time it takes to produce then compared to the financial return… :-(
A.B. wrote: "during my visit to The Bookshop in Paddington recently I saw a whole stack of Zack's graphic novels. NowI see what you (and many others) have been talking about!"
Did the bookshop have the magnificent illustrated Zack novels (story by Roger with art by Oliver) Boys of Vice City, Boys of Disco City, and Boys of Two Cities? Zack's publisher Bruno Gmünder's catalog says Boys of the Fast Lane is due out "Summer 2013." Also just released is Raw Recruits.
Most exceedingly recommended is Zack the Art jam packed with steaming hot guys doing the most deliciously nasty things with their boy bods but my favorite part is Oliver's rendering of the faces on these guys as the experience ecstasy; the faces in his art are the most expressive anyone has ever done and cannot be outdone.
For those who also enjoy fantasy there is The Fantasy Art Of Oliver Frey by Roger Kean.
Did the bookshop have the magnificent illustrated Zack novels (story by Roger with art by Oliver) Boys of Vice City, Boys of Disco City, and Boys of Two Cities? Zack's publisher Bruno Gmünder's catalog says Boys of the Fast Lane is due out "Summer 2013." Also just released is Raw Recruits.
Most exceedingly recommended is Zack the Art jam packed with steaming hot guys doing the most deliciously nasty things with their boy bods but my favorite part is Oliver's rendering of the faces on these guys as the experience ecstasy; the faces in his art are the most expressive anyone has ever done and cannot be outdone.
For those who also enjoy fantasy there is The Fantasy Art Of Oliver Frey by Roger Kean.
I despise what I call "Harlequin" M/M, earlier described by Lucas as "bodice rippers" with a change of pronoun. That's exactly why I stopped reading m/f. The crying, oh the crying every couple pages! Hate it, with a vengeance. It's not because "men must not cry", but because nobody cries that much!
@Goesta, I'm sorry to inform you: no fluffers in the porn industry since Viagra and similar drugs came out. My daughter worked as a free-lance make-up artist for a porn studio for some time and nope, no fluffers. The guys are given a little blue pill to take and told to keep themselves ready. Agree with you that it would be an awesome job to list on the resumé.
@Fangtasia. Another example of technology trouncing the jobs and good sense. A fluffer (at least here in Germany) would be cheaper than Viagra, hour by hour. *shakes head in disbelief*
On his behalf (as loving partner and greedy agent), Zack, a.k.a. Oliver Frey, would love to do a real graphic novel – it's been talked about for donkeys' years – and considers the likes of Rogue and the newer Bike Boy as "mere" comic strip books. Oops my bad. I should have referred to them as comic strip books, but they seem so much more than that. I'll take a photo of them in the shop when I go in there next time.
Goesta wrote: "@Fangtasia. Another example of technology trouncing the jobs and good sense. A fluffer (at least here in Germany) would be cheaper than Viagra, hour by hour. *shakes head in disbelief*"You mean Hank Edwards' "Fluffers Inc" is already anachronistic? Shame. I liked Charlie.
Oh no! The movie "The Fluffer" isn't a true story? How disappointing. I'm crushed.
This is a great thread, just seeing it now! I love all the comments!Yeah in m/m romance it's always the euphemisms that get to me... "pole," "tight tunnel," "rod" etc, etc. I just read a story where it was almost nothing but euphemisms, and it made for a poor read during those times! You folks all pointed out great ones.
It's small detail, but I kind of hate in m/m romance how the MCs always seem to have strange eye colors, like grey eyes or slate grey or amber eyes or honey eyes. Really? Where are all these grey and yellow eyed people? And are they being checked for jaundice?
My hubby has slate grey eyes! ;) And they do change colour depending on the lighting and what mood he is in.
I don't mind it if the author just mentions the eye color as an act of description, as I always appreciate imagery or descriptions of any form. It's when the author focuses intently on the eye color and repeats it over and over again trying to make up for a lack of overall characterization by making up for it with asserting how unique the character is only because of his genetically inherited eye color, which of course is amber. Or honey. Or the highly fashionable sea blue or forest green or whatever else makes the character a beautiful and unique snowflake without actually showing how he is one.So I guess my real complaint is being told and not shown who a character is and how his relationship really develops and works with the other character. Especially in the best friends to lovers genre (which I don't give a hoot if it's passé to some, I love it) When it just says they are best friends a hundred times, but you have no real description or interaction of how they are friends. Show me, show me, show me! Don't just tell me.
I hate when the author always gives their obviously gorgeous MC's lashes that are at least 6 foot long and black or sooty , ( that's always a good one!) and thick and lengthy enough to start a hurricane off the coast of Florida if the guy even blinks! As a woman who has to load her sparse, crappy lashes with tons of mascara to even make them appear to be surrounding her "green with a splash of turquoise and a dash of red in the yellowsh whites" eyes, it just adds insult to injury and money wasted on said mascaras that promise lush lashes but actually only produce a clumpy black mess! And they're always "" fanned out on their cheeks"" ? WTF... That only happens to me when my false ones fall off!! OK I'll admit it..... Pure jealousy because most guys do have eyelashes to die for and its NO fair. * bats stubby sparse and colourless lashes * .... Oh god another ones fallen out!!!
Major English (Laura) wrote: "I don't mind it if the author just mentions the eye color as an act of description, as I always appreciate imagery or descriptions of any form. It's when the author focuses intently on the eye colo..."Sea blue or forest green makes me think of the names decorating companies give their paints. Why don't they just call that paint colour 'poopoo brown' instead of 'moccachoccachoccachino'? Oh hang on....
{Danni rushes off to change her latest character's eye colour from the original poopoo brown to the slightly sexier sounding moccachoccachoccachino.}
Most of characters have brown (hazel), but I use blue and grey because I know/have known people thusly coloured (and have always been bitterly envious, but don't tell anyone outside this group).
Macky wrote: "I hate when the author always gives their obviously gorgeous MC's lashes that are at least 6 foot long and black or sooty , ( that's always a good one!) and thick and lengthy enough to start a hur..."You should so be writing Macky! Would it be okay for me to 'borrow' that description of 'thick and lengthy enough to start a hurricane...' phrase? In the interests of non-complete-plaigiarism l wouldn't use it for eyelashes but l may be able to come up with a different body part to apply it to (racks brain for ideas). Can l, can l, please huh?
Roger wrote: "Most of characters have brown (hazel), but I use blue and grey because I know/have known people thusly coloured (and have always been bitterly envious, but don't tell anyone outside this group)."* ssssh* You're secret is safe with us ...... HEY EVERYONE ROGER WANTS GREY EYES !!!!!!
@ Danni.... " I gazed into his beautiful brown eyes that I couldn't quite describe the true colour of, those pools of deep mystery and wonder and I knew at that moment ... As we stared longingly at each other... Caught in that rabid moment of passion and lust... That all I wanted from him.... all I needed was ... an urgent visit to the loo and a cup of moccachoccachoccachino!
Danni wrote: "Macky wrote: "I hate when the author always gives their obviously gorgeous MC's lashes that are at least 6 foot long and black or sooty , ( that's always a good one!) and thick and lengthy enough ..."As if you need to ask!! I give it gladly hun. :D
Oh Goesta why did you have to mention " Pulsing " and " big levers " ..... Red rag to a bull, but I must refrain because its Easter Sunday so Im going to think of those Easter bunnies again before my lewd sense of impropriety gets the better of me and I have another " Carry On being Naughty " moment. Ooooooh Maaatron!!!
LOL. Mine does too, actually. Though I do recall a description that drove me a bit nutty. Violet blue eyes. So were they violet or were they blue, and who has violet eyes?
Macky wrote: "Oh Goesta why did you have to mention " Pulsing " and " big levers " ..... Red rag to a bull, but I must refrain because its Easter Sunday so Im going to think of those Easter bunnies again befor..."I feel appalled to have to point this out, but those Easter bunnies are only one symbol that the original pagan festivals of Ishtar, Eostre, whatever had for rampant fertility, and all that rampant sex led to, well… eggs… getting, er, well…
Macky wrote: "Oh Goesta why did you have to mention " Pulsing " and " big levers " ..... Another I thing I hate is the poetic terms used to describe sex. Sometimes, it's nice but romance writers tend to overuse for the sake of avoiding "vulgar" words.
A member (also author) "confronted" me about that coz she often read my complaints about that matter. She asked me to differentiate between romance and erotica. That romance had no place for vulgar words and "mechanical" sex. At the same time, she DENIED poetic phrases in romance. When I gave her examples (like rosette for asshole), she said she NEVER find such phrases.
She claimed straight novels like Harlequin were indeed corny and unrealistic but denied M/M romance having the same problem.
She even accused me of reading too few books to pass bad judgment about romance. I mean... hey, I'm NOT the only man who complains about M/M romance! That's another reason why I dont like M/M romance.... ><
Why most writers feel it's "sinful" to add "mechanical sex" to romance? For example, In REALITY, I'm sure romance characters like Prince Charming & Snow White (if they're real people) f*cks so passionately. So why deny "mechanical sex".... Gee... I dont like hypocrite... It's either you like sex or you hate sex.
* sorry for rambling
Roger wrote: "Macky wrote: "Oh Goesta why did you have to mention " Pulsing " and " big levers " ..... Red rag to a bull, but I must refrain because its Easter Sunday so Im going to think of those Easter bunni..."Damn... I was trying to be so good. Now I've got a rampant bunny orgy in my head and little swimmers... Roger how could you burst my bubble like that? I'm going back to my hot naked firemen with their violet blue grey green moccachocca eyes, and hurricane worthy lashes and firemens poles that always need a good polishing!!
@ Hector... I'm with you! After my disappointment with the randy little bunnies, I say lets call it as it is.... Not all sex is throbbing members and puckered nubbins! But you see you've also ruined my romantic ideals of Snow White and Charming, they're now in the orgy with the bunnies doing very unfairy tale things.... Fodder for one of my Macky Grimm tales! :D
Macky wrote: "But you see you've also ruined my romantic ideals of Snow White and Charming, they're now in the orgy with the bunnies doing very unfairy tale things.... "LOL
Well, I'm just trying to be realistic and not hypocrite. I just can't seem to grasp why many people think sex is vulgar but they themselves do it also!
I mean, it's like say no to drug. If u dare to say no, then don't use drug. If you dare to says ex is vulgar, then don't have sex! See? :)
While I do agree that love is not all about throbbing member, romance novels paint the unrealistic image that all love is emotional only and explicit sex is vulgar.
Hector wrote: "Macky wrote: "But you see you've also ruined my romantic ideals of Snow White and Charming, they're now in the orgy with the bunnies doing very unfairy tale things.... "LOL
Well, I'm just trying..."
No you're right Hector sometimes you just want to read it down and dirty... But I have to say Ive had loads of fun with harlequin style romance descriptions. My sister and myself used to make up our own seeing who coud get the dirtiest whilst still using the flowery descriptions.... We used to end up wetting ourselves!! :DDD
Macky wrote: "Ive had loads of fun with harlequin style romance descriptions."I used to read A LOT of Harlequin novellas when I was younger. NOT coz I was into them but coz I had no access to any gay stories at that time. The one that drew me to read Harlequin was the male model! LOL Esp if he's barechested.
Later, I gained access to English versions and started making a list of novel phrases (coz I wanted to be a writer). As the list grew, I noticed many phrases I wrote were absurdly unrealistic. Now, that I finally self-publish, I find myself back to the good ol' so-called "vulgar" words :D
Yeah, I meant to say that of course that was when they where all het romances. The men were always terribly handsome with steely grey eyes and jutting chins, and square jaws... If you met a guy like that you'd probably run for the hills shouting " take your jutting chin away from me you steely eyed square jawed freak"... The bare chested covers were hot though! LOL.
That reminds me another thing I hate in M/M stories... BAD COVERS! I mean, I have never gay covers which can surpass Harlequin bare-chested models!But then again, it's understandable. I mean Harlequin shoots their own covers while gay novels publishing companies only use stock photos. To add to the problem, certain companies are notorious with bad collage cover. Some M/M novel companies are able to produce better covers but they're stuck to movie-poster-style covers (1 or 2 men looming over a landscape) which can b boring over time.
In a way, it drops M/M romance quality. I know, there's saying don't judge a book by the cover. But we live in superficial world where outer looks is important. That's why we often dress our best when we meet people, right? Coz "cover" does matter!
I wish an M/M publishing company read my complain and hire me as their cover artist LOL
Seriously, someone pls hire me :D
True. I wish you luck in your writing and cover designing Hector. Its true a good cover can make a difference.. It shouldn't because really its all about the story but we are shallow creatures, we see first and think later! I saw your cover on the other thread and thought it was really good. :)
Macky wrote: " It shouldn't because really its all about the story but we are shallow creatures"Thank you, it's very kind of u :) I'm also shallow LOL but of course am not shallow when it comes to finding a bf (btw Im still single ^_^). That's just the way the world works.
If I wasn't a straight, slightly mature * cough* woman ... I'd be after you like a shot!! LOL! Don't worry sweetie, one day your prince will come... Baring his perfect abs and taut six pack! Wait till you're famous..... :))
Macky wrote: "If I wasn't a straight, slightly mature * cough* woman ... I'd be after you like a shot!! LOL! Don't worry sweetie, one day your prince will come... Baring his perfect abs and taut six pack! Wait t..."Well, I don't mind being your friend :) I'm glad u r woman though. I mean, u think like a man ^_^ and that's a good thing! I just wish other women could be as open as u regarding romance vs erotica.
Yeah, I keep hoping for that special someone. That's so kind of u. Yeah I hope it happens... fame... :D In the meantime pls do keep supporting me, coz I can't be famous without fans :D
PS: I try to PM u but I get error. In case you're interested to read my FREE stories, you could open www.himeros2013.tk There are shorts and series. Shorts mostly just have fiery sexual encounters while series have some plots. My commercial stories r better coz the plots r expanded significantly. So if you like my free stories, u'll definitely fall for my commercial ebooks :D One thing for sure, they r not as annoying as M/M romance LOL
Oh sorry Hector. I should be able to get PM's now... I'll check my status again but I thought I'd sorted it out! Thanks for the link. :) I'm very open minded... So I don't get offended about stuff. You'll find all us girls on here are the same:D
Happy to be one of those with you, Macky! And I'm going to go check the link out as well when I have more time later. Too busy lately to even come across more stuff to complain about, let alone what bugs me in the books. :(
JustJen wrote: "Happy to be one of those with you, Macky! And I'm going to go check the link out as well when I have more time later. Too busy lately to even come across more stuff to complain about, let alone w..."Awwwwww, Jen! Busy busy! :)
JustJen wrote: "Oh, and I hate when they always call each others names out. Do people really do that?"Ditto!!!
Right on, Marlobo! Also, this reminds me, is it really necessary for each person to announce when they are "finding their release" or is this more an issue of explaining the action to the reader?
Marlobo wrote: "Ditto!!!"Not sure... It depends on the couple. BUT from my experience, the ones who kept calling me sweet names ALWAYS ended up to be jerks, liars, and African scammers....
Macky wrote: "I don't get offended about stuff...."
I know you don't :) I hope u like my free site.
JustJen wrote: "I'm going to go check the link out as well when I have more time later."
I hope u'll love my free M/M erotica ^_^ Pls do support my commercial writings if you love my free stories coz commercial ones r so much better.
Lucas wrote: "I hate stories which read like they were heterosexual bodice rippers where the author just changed the pronoun from she to he and one guy is a short, thin, long-hared and effeminate total bottom an..."Yes! I really hate that. They are men, not women with penises. The relations between men (of any sort) are jolly unlike relations men-vomen Those authors should shake off their pre-concepts and laziness.
Hey Hector. I've sorted out my PM's. don't know why but it keeps reverting back to personal friends only ... I only sorted it a few days ago! Most annoying... Wonder where I can complain about that? Lol. Is the link right on this page? I keep getting a video site. :)
Macky wrote: "Is the link right on this page? I keep getting a video site. :) "Video site? If it has Titanic on it (with porn stars), then it's right site :) You just need to click ENTER (the position is messed up by the host's annoying banner!). If not, I don't know what happens coz it opens well here.
Try direct link: http://pridesites.com/stories/himeros/
OR
http://www.asstr.org/~himeros
Yeah I do keep mirror links in case one link doesn't work... But ASSTR mirror is more... quiet... coz it bans any commercialism.
Marlobo wrote: "Yes! I really hate that. They are men, not women with penises. The relations between men (of any sort) are jolly unlike relations men-vomen Those authors should shake off their pre-concepts and laziness. "
I voice the same opinion! And a female member - a hardcore romance lover protested... LOL
Thanks Hector... Link number two ( the bottom one ) is the right one. Will check out the free stories ASAP! :)
Macky wrote: "Thanks Hector... Link number two ( the bottom one ) is the right one. Will check out the free stories ASAP! :)"I see... sorry, I dont know why sometimes my links don't work. Several people also report www.himeros.tk doesn't work. That what happens with free web host, so unreliable >< I hope if I get more income, I can purchase premium web host. But for now, it's impossible :( Can't afford to use the money I haven't earned yet.
That reminds me another thing I hate in M/M romance stories... the authors don't have attractive website LOL I visited some commercial authors' websites, and all I can read there is gossip and blurbs about many things. How can I get to know the authors if they keep gossiping about everything? ><
Macky wrote: "Hey Hector. I've sorted out my PM's. don't know why but it keeps reverting back to personal friends only ... I only sorted it a few days ago! Most annoying... Wonder where I can complain about tha..."
The Goodreads Feedback Group is supposed to be useful but it isn't. The never fix anything. It would be best to send a message using the "help" link at the bottom right of every page. Not that I'm optimistic they will reply or do anything.
The Goodreads Feedback Group is supposed to be useful but it isn't. The never fix anything. It would be best to send a message using the "help" link at the bottom right of every page. Not that I'm optimistic they will reply or do anything.
Lucas wrote: "The Goodreads Feedback Group is supposed to be useful but it isn't. "It sounds like Deviant Art LOL Many times I complain, they respond very slowly and most of them are not helpful at all.
Complaint Department
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Purely visually, rosebud ought to be in front, if anywhere on one's body at all, stem and all. No thorn..."
Oooh not sure, just googled one and there's tentacles involved... Possibly in a m/m sci fi romance!