1Q84 question

Anna / I'm a male, an East-asian (a South Korean, more specifically) with relatively good understanding of Japanse Culture and History, and have read most of major novels by Haruki Murakami (Some in original Japanese).

And, I'm one of those who agree with you, thinking that Haruki's works are saturated with male-centric, childish sexual fantacies and lusts, which I often find problematic (sometiems even unethical).

Furthermore, I can assure you that those are not really rare in Japan and Korea who shares your view on Haruki's novels, including both general reads like you and me, and professional literary critics. In other words, haruki novels' tendency of showing hostitlity towards female general, and male-centuric sexual fantacies with objectification of famale character is one of frequently occuring criticism charged at his works here, Japan and Korea.

I know this is a 7 year old thread at this point but I wanted to throw in my thoughts and say I completely agree. Everyone justifying his creepy writing as either, "He's exploring his own thoughts", or "challenging our preconceptions", need to understand that that isn't a justification. It's still just as creepy or even more so. Tengo is pedophillic and frequently fantasizes about a teenagers body. Aomame is frequently sexualized. In Kafka on the Shore, he has a character who wants to have sex with every young woman he meets and also happens to fantasize about the possibility of that woman being his long lost sister. In the "Colorless Life of Tsukuru Tazaki", he simply writes an entire novel to justify rape. This doesn't make me challenge my preconceptions, this is me reading a man trying to find a scenario in which the unacceptable is acceptable. If Murakami is "Exploring his own mind", he is telling me he is a man who fantasizes about children, incest, and rape. The cult leader aspect, about how he's paralyzed, "so can he really be blamed for being a pedophile?". That doesn't challenge my preconceptions. That to me is Murakami doing mental backflips to justify pedophilia. I really appreciate seeing others who are just as turned off by this because I could never get into his books because of it. I chalked it up to maybe being a misunderstanding due to translation and small cultural differences, but he's just a creep and a misogynist that I would never want to go near.

Yes! I’m about 200 pages into IQ84, and it’s not even the sex scene that bothers me. The women are just described so badly. There are so many descriptions of their breasts and otherwise sexual descriptions of them. It happens so frequently that it’s just distracting at this point, and I am only a fraction of the way through the book. I’m not offended by it; it’s just distracting and annoying. I know she has breasts! Can he please stop describing them over and over again?! While it seems like he is good at coming up with interesting female characters, it just seems like he’s not very good at describing them.

My take on the sex scenes was completely different. The sex scenes, to me, we're not about sex, so I didn't really think of them as being good or bad as sex scenes. I don't think he wrote them with pornography in mind. I think he wrote them to advance certain aspects of the plot and to make us uncomfortable and then to question why we're uncomfortable. In particular, the scenes describing the leader's paralysis when he was engaging in sex with the minors from his Church. He had no control over this, which introduces the question, should he be blamed? Should Aomame kill him for her original reasons at all? We're disgusted by how his acts are originally characterized. How does this new information change things.

Tengo is attracted to Fuka Eri, but when the sex scene occurs, he's also paralyzed. But this sex scene is more about the transmission of his semen to Aomame through Fuka Eri through some sort of worm hole. And is Fuka Eri even human? I think we're supposed to question that. So, what is the meaning of this sexual act? It's really hard to say. It certainly isn't intended to turn us on.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."
It's not just you. This is my 4th Murakami novel. I'm about half way through. I like his books quite a bit, but his depiction of women and his breast obsession is really grating.

IQ84 has a female protagonist, try that?

Or you could read some Kathy Acker...oh wait, her characters do the same thing...

I very much enjoyed 1Q84 with its complex and intertwined story lines and creation of the two-moon world. There was more sex than I needed to read, but it did not detract from the story. The only other Murakami book I've read is Kafka on the Shore. I enjoyed it but no where near as much as 1Q84. I can see see the little people popping out of that dead goat and building the air crystallis.

Definitely not just you... It have been annoying me so much too... I actually found your comment because I googled something like "haruki murakami hipersexualize young girls". Reading the other comments I thought: I really couldn't care less if it's legal in Japan, so many atrocities are still legal in so many countries..! When you read one book you think: ok, this is very inappropriate but, it's just one story. But then you see it happening in almost all of his books.. It's very disturbing.. It's like a fixation, it's just not normal, or right. And I feel so bad writting this because I love his books so much (except for these gross parts of course). Sorry I just had to vent.. (also sorry about my English, I'm not a native speaker).

I about 60 pages of 1Q84 I didn't learn anything interesting and met the worst description of love-making I have ever read, so I had to quit reading.

What's intriguing about 1Q84 is that for what I think is the first time, Murakami uses a woman (Aomame) as his primary focus and POV, though I suppose you could argue that Tengo gets equal billing with her. But of the two, this female character (the assassin) is a wonderfully complex creation, far more so than the guy who shares the spotlight with her. I do think that if the novel had been published in the US as it was in Japan - in three sequentially released volumes instead of an 800-page doorstop - it would gained impact and that was after all how HM conceived of the work.

It's just you, and apparently a handful of other prudes.

Seriously, did we read the same book? The protagonist is a woman that kills men who have abused women. The only questionable sex acts were committed by a cult leader (perhaps one of the more realistic aspects of the book?). You must have a very low tolerance for sex and/or sexual fantasy in fiction, and that would be your problem, not a problem with the writer.

Ugh, yes! I was just so bored by the endlessly repetitive descriptions of women's breasts. It felt like a 13 year old boy's attempt at porn, it was neither erotic nor well written. It really detracted from the story. Im far from prudish, I don't mind a sex scene if it's well written, but the scenes in 1Q84 just felt forced and awkward, like he was trying too hard to make them quirky or surreal. They just felt unrealistic.

@op, i think the japanese are a bit more skeptical of H.M. than his adoring fan club, even though they too buy millions of his books. quite a few have told me, "i don't actually like him, but he's irresistible."

@thew, the national age of consent in Japan is 13, but each prefecture has a higher number, usually around 16.

Maybe some of Murakami's stories are a totally pathetic historical example of the phallocentric, maybe his stories are simply based out of the library he's been provided, maybe there's no difference, maybe that's the point.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."

The point that Murakami is trying to establish is that Tengo's attraction to Fuka-Eri is bringing him a realisation that there was something missing inside of him. Tengo finds Fuka-eri aesthetically pretty, this isn't pedophilloic as he has no proper desire as he did for Aomame. Even during the sex scene he couldn't climax until he closed his eyes and thought about Aomame, not Fuka-eri. He is as attracted to Fuka-eri as you would be to an aesthetically pleasing work of art. Furthermore Tengo did not want to have sex with Fuka-eri, this is not a creepy older guy with a fetish for teenage girls but someone who's being dragged through a series of strange events. At least that was my interpretation.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."

I think you are over-doing the male centrist thing. I've read his entire works, I'm 50+ male, have kids who are approaching 30 and I've been married to a Japanese lady for nearly 30 years. I think Murakami has, to a degree, a kind of obsession with sexual relationships but I wouldn't go so far to say it's all male fantasy. He deals with homosexuality a fair bit between men and men and women and women and I wouldn't say Tengo's interest in Fuka-Eri is in anyway perverse, sexist or predatory. Nor would I be inclined to suggest that his protagonists reflect his own views on sexuality. Novelists have licence to portray their characters' sexual predilections anyway they like. Whatever your take on Murakami, he will remain a key literary figure for a good time to come.

It doesn't bother me, personally. I am always interested in seeing how other people view the world (whether that's the view of the protagonist or author themselves). I feel I can learn a lot from seeing things through different eyes.

The premise seems valid. I'm not sure it's terribly surprising that his stories are male-focused, since most authors tend to be autobiographical in many respects. About the only book I've ever read where a man wrote well about women or a woman wrote well about men was Gilead by Marilynne Robinson which brilliant captured the male voice, in my opinion, despite being written by a female. It's sort of like pointing out that football and hockey players tend to suffer more injuries than writers and dentists. It's probably true but I don't think I'll stop watching football or hockey anytime soon.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...." I disagree with the "lust" aspect of your comment. He never explicitly states that he lusts for her and it is also never explicitly shown that he lusts for her.

I agree with you. I'm 50 pages into the Wind Up Bird Chronicle and I'm not going to read any farther. I like that he comments on the absurdity of modernity by exploring the mundane through classic philosophical themes, but it's clear this book will be male-centric and misogynist as demonstrated by its light hearted way of dealing with a rape of a character in the first 50 pages.

Not just you. I didn't know the author was a man (the name sounded feminine, my bad) and I was taken aback with the description of the female bodies. It very much seemed like a male narrative and exclusively a male point of view (ugh the obsession with breasts- seriously that's NOT the central point of a woman's existence), and I had to look the author up at some point and it all made sense.

His stores are dream-like. Almost everything in them is fundamentally based on dreams. Dreams (and his stories) addressed aspects of the minds that are frequently repressed, such as sexual attraction, especially "inappropriate" sexual attractions.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."

It's just you (and I say this as a woman).

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...." Agree! just finished 1Q84. It made me sick.

Yes. I really hated this book. It's poorly written, and could be hundreds of pages shorter if the author's weird sexual fantasies stayed in the drafts

I noticed that he tries to "challenge" moral/sexual situations. but I see him trying so hard to put any sorta moral dillema to justify his own fantasis. So, the cult leader gets paralysis, but why would he keep 3 girls in the temple in case as captives for that? Why does he allow it to happen for a second time? If he really hated it he would send those girls away, but he is portrayed as he has no will or word over his followers to stop these cermonies.
As for Tengo, he did have sexual fantasis right before has sex with Fuka Eri pregnant, and his lazer focus on her breasts all the time makes his sexual attractions towards this child unquestionable.
All in all, adding little twists to make it look unsexual, doesn't overshadow the sexual themes of lusting over the child characters.
Third, literture shouldn't be restricted, and if that's his flow, it's his flow, but nothing should be imposed on a reader as a "moral" challenge, who is anyone to come from this place of superioroty?

I've read the majority of murakami's books that have been translated to English or Dutch. That was in my early twenties, 6-8ys ago. I love the books, but got a bit tired of the recurring things (young girls with sexy ears, black coffee, jazz/classical music). I've just started to tetrad the wind up bird chronicle and within 20 pages got upset enough by the sexualisarion of a 16yo girl that I started googling to see if others thought the same. And here I am. It may sadly be the way how a lot of society is, but it's harmful to repeat just that over and over in the books. From a good writer like murakami I'd expect more critical reflection than the interview I just read on this. So you're not alone.

I hate that man so much, special because of his underage female characters! That dude ruins everything.

It's never bothered me. I actually find the hypersexualization to be interesting.

Remember these are characters..in a book. Anne Rice writes about bisexual vampires that has torn the heart from its victims, thrown children in a bonfire, BDSM scenes with teenagers and so on, that doesn't mean she wants to do these things.

Even if some of the things that authors write about stem from somewhat realistic thoughts - it's not for us to rationalize that it does apply to them in some way. Maybe he writes to uncover personal trauma? Maybe it's just to make odd ball characters or shock value, who knows. But I think it's pretty pretentious of someone to assume they know anything about a stranger.

Instead of assuming what relation it is to the author, maybe we should wonder what value, if any, does it add to the book? Is it a reoccurring motif, if so why? Is it important to the scene, to the mood? Or maybe who knows? Lol.

1Q84 is particularly....I can't even think of the word of it. But yeah, parts of it shocked and kinda disturbed me. Yet I was fascinated by this book. I have never experienced anything quite like it since I first read it years ago.

I do wonder too, why did he choose certain paths, people, and ideas in this book but all I can do is wonder, lol. But hey, I feel like that confusion is just another layer to the magic.

Yes I am finally able to say the sex and general melodrama in his novels are gratuitous and too self-indulgent. In retrospect ponderable ideas about metaphors in Kafka are overshadowed by the baldly prurient scenes and comments scattered throughout the book.

I’m so glad to see there is an open conversation on this aspect of Murakami’s writing. Despite this being a 9 year old thread, It still holds the position of highest views on discussions of 1Q84. Seriously, check it out! https://www.goodreads.com/topic/list_...

I remember when the English translation first came out for this text when I was in high school, and I read both 1Q84 and Norwegian Wood, and found it in bad taste for his portrayal of women and girls. A commenter further below, Stephen Welch, summed up this perspective quite humorously with the phrase “she breasted boobily down the stairs,” and linked the article where this nugget of gold was sourced from.

I just want to help in clarifying the issues stemming from Murakami’s work, for those seeking further explanation, beyond the apparent complications of his sexualised descriptors.

Western discourse is very focused around the power dynamic of the white male, and understandably so with the European history of colonialism. But what is often overlooked as ‘cultural differences’ and ‘tradition’ in Asian (broad term, I know) history, literature and media, is essentially the same male-dominating hierarchies that strips Asian women (and girls) of their agencies, power and identities. Western discourse isn’t to blame, as it is a difficult task to stay on the pulse of every social issue permeating every culture.

In many East and South-East Asian families (speaking from a Chinese-Vietnamese background), the male child is heralded as the successor to the family, and, therefore, brought up with more privileges and doted upon more than their female siblings. While this is not the case for all families (certainly not my own), this preferential upbringing and indulgence often breeds a sense of entitlement, whether that is in regards to material goods, or, sexual predilections, as we see evident in the book in discussion.

The relationship structures of concubines is an exemplar male-preferential model. While many arguments on supporting family structures and divisions of labour may be made about polygamist partnerships, I only want to address it in more traditionally privileged circumstances.

When looking at the modern-day equation of concubines in Asian media, the ‘harem’ trope is very much alive, with little labour and value being provided equally to female counterparts from their shared, singular male partner. The model serves as a male fantasy, rather than a necessity for nursing smaller communities. We are able to make a mockery of its female counterpart, the reverse-harem, such as is seen in Twilight, where the singular female protagonist is pursued by several male admirers. However, when it comes to discussing traditional harem tropes, suddenly a thousand excuses arise for why it is a necessity, rather than what the female counterpart is so truthfully and easily written off as - a fantasy.

I think what irks me about Murakami’s portrayal of women in particular, is that despite the arguments for its symbolic and self or societal-reflective value, there is a lack of indication to show its value as an open discourse on these issues. There doesn’t appear to be a strong sense of recognition for the ethical dilemma that these self-gratifying descriptors create, or even a self-deprecating or mocking take on it.

wind up bird is my favorite of his writings so far and i really enjoy his style although it is clearly not for everyone. but i would point out that the sexualization of a underage girl while certainly not desirable is also a component of one of the better books that ive read written in modern times "Lolita" and i think rather than the base content itself, it's the nature of the story surrounding those ideas within the wider narrative that is what appeals to the audience. sometimes it is in the exploration of the taboo which is a part of our society even in the margins, that gives us a greater understanding of humanity and all its wrinkles. but that being said, i get the opposing viewpoint as well

After a thousand pages of IQ84 I was ready to chuck the whole thing out when Murakami had to mention that Fuka-Eri has no pubic hair. For what purpose? I found this thread because I went immediately to google if others felt this way.

I am tired of the Western-centric criticism. What's wrong with being sexually attracted to a high school girl?

There is nothing wrong with that desire itself. Excessive obsession with age may be suspected of ageism. The puritanical idea of regulating and condemning desire astounds me.

If you want a novel that centers on a female perspective rather than a male one, you might be better off writing it yourself rather than begging a male author to do it. There are already many such novels.

* I'm not the author's big fan, but I read this novel in translation. In fact, this novel is a very disappointing novel due to its incomplete plot, but at least this writing is so extreme that I cannot agree with it.

Although I am not Japanese, I tend to have a positive evaluation of Japan as a country that rejects censorship and broadly guarantees freedom of expression and art when it comes to sex.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."

I got so tired of it that I couldn't finish the book!

It is my only complaint about Murakami's books and his writing in general. He is terrible at writing sex scenes, and the pedophilic overtones are very creepy. Also he has these "magic blow-job" scenes in several books where a male character finds enlightenment in a dream or a well or something with the "magic blow job" by a female character. I don't know whether this is just his tic or whether this is supposed to reflect on male treatment of women in Japanese culture? It may be both.

Thanks for these comments. I just finished Wind Up Bird Chronicle a few weeks ago and I thought it was a really different and fun read, but I wasn't sure what to think about all the strange sexual scenes. I want to read more of his books, now I know a little more about what to expect in them. I like to think they serve a certain purpose for each narrative. I'll have to think about it as I continue. Also, I have a question. Which book do you think I should read next? Should I go ahead and try to conquer IQ or go back to an earlier work first? thanks

Just to clarify: "lusting" after a teenager (Fuka-Eri) is NOT paedophilia. In Murakami's books, the ingenues to whom you are referring are not young children, but teenagers of 16+ years. In modern society, we have set an ethical and legal standard for appropriate age of consent, which I fully support, especially when it comes to adult-minor relationships. The difference between a person attracted to a teenager, who has all the same secondary sexual characteristics as any adult, and a pre-pubescent child (in whom the paedophile is exclusively interested) is profound. There is no comparison here. Plenty of perfectly healthy men look at teenage girls and are attracted to them, although they do not necessarily act on that attraction. Having worked for years in this field, I get annoyed by the public labelling any man who gets interested in a 16 or 17 year old as a paedophile, which they most certainly are not; that is not to say that it is a good idea to act on urges such as these. Also, let's remember that it used to be quite normal and socially acceptable for young women of good family to marry much older men who offered them wealth and stability.

1) in japan the legal age of consent is 13, so not only is this not paedophilia, it is legal and maybe even normal in japanese society

2) sexuality is a very real thing, and exploring it is not unusual in literature. in fact it is a major theme in most literature across the board

3) murakami is writing from the point of view of a japanese man. so yes, his narratives are "male-centric"

I know you are being hounded for this but you should understand something else. Murakami writes his fiction in a way that satisfies some of his own curiosities, in an interview he once said, "Think of my main characters as twins separated at birth, similar, but entirely different" or something like that.

He is exploring his own thoughts and ideas in his fiction, which is why Toru from Norwegian Wood and Toru from The Wind Up Bird Chronicle are similar in some ways. It is all about what goes on in his mind.

If you don't like the sexual nature of his novels, quit reading them.

"Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives?" - count me in. God, I wanted to stop reading it so badly. I finished it hoping there would be more to it. He could have written it in 500 pages or less.

Agree. At about 1/3 way through I decided the sex was too much and stopped reading, though the rest of the story was great and part of my wishes I had continued reading.

I don't see how the question is relevant to 1Q84, given the central characters. I did not find the sex scenes troubling in Kafka on the Shore either. I can only speculate on how little they will trouble for other Murakami books, which I very much intend to read.

I know it is a matter of some personal taste, but I would prefer to discuss particular books in a discussion thread. They are difficult enough to process without going past a given work and attacking the author directly on a general basis.

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."

YES. That was literally all I could think while reading this book. I love most of his works, but this one just... ugh. I thought it was too ambitious and that he lost his way. I've read them all, and this was the first one I almost didn't finish.

Yes! I'm in the middle of it now, and came on here specifically to find out if others had the same reaction to the scenes as I did. I'm all for sex scenes in novels, especially when they're well-written and central to the narrative. But several of the scenes in 1Q84 have jarred me out of my reading flow because they felt so incongruous, unnecessary, and simply bizzare.

If the psychology of an author or their characters disturbs you, you might be getting an opportunity to learn something about yourself. Stopping at reactive reactions to narratives at "this is bad/evil/gross" and running away is a good sign that a nerve has been struck, and you could do some exploration with yourself. Some of Murakami's sex scenes are weird, but I respect that sexuality is a complicated concept and experience for many people across cultures and even within cultures. As someone said, 13 is the legal age in Japan and as weird and wrong I think that is, I try to maintain a position of cultural relativism to learn as much as I can from other ways of being and knowing. I would be interested to read some women and queer Japanese writers to see what kinds of weird fantasies come out of those identities.

Thank-you, Dsa, for your helpful comments. A lot of the comments on Murakami's writing by obviously North American women totally missed the mark. Please, God, don't let corrupt and hypocritical American culture spread further in the world than it already has! Yes, Murakami's sex scenes are usually gratuitous, and yes, his books are amoral. Both of those traits are typically Japanese–i.e. typical of both Japanese males and females. All of you need to live in Japan for 45 years and speak and read Japanese perfectly before you comment. Your comments are based largely on translations, which are often better than the original–particularly in the case of Gabriel's brilliant Kafka, where he does things in English that are impossible in Japanese. Bravo Gabriel!

Anna wrote: "Is it just me or does anyone else tire of Haruki Murakami's hypersexualized, male-centrist narratives? Other than that, I adore his writing. I'm currently reading 1Q84 and have read Norwegian Wood...."

It's a reflection of real life. Why do you think its a trope? Pretty common to the male experience.

Anna wrote: "does anyone else tire of..."

Yes, Anna.

I got just over halfway through the book, just past the point where a girl who hasn't begun menstruating "rapes" a paralyzed man twice her age, and couldn't read another word.

1Q84 was my first Murakami book and I sensed an obsessive hypersexual fixation from the very first chapter right through until that scene. It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't wish to give Murakami a second try.