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July 2015-Group Read #1-It by Stephen King
Just found a probable linkage between SK stories.Now I don't recall if the town in The Colorado Kid was called Haven or not (the tv show Haven is loosely based off TCK), but as Bev's husband Tom is driving to Derry from Bangor, he passes a sign saying HAVEN 21, DERRY 15.
T. wrote: "I read the first 80% or so some years ago, and I'm intent on finishing it this time. I'm interested to know what people think of the novel's early sexual politics. The (spoiler) death of a gay ch..."
I'm still in the first few pages of the book. I read it many many years ago as a child and I don't even remember any of the gay stuff. Was it in the movie because I don't remember that either :-/
I don't think the homosexual or racism stuff was in the movie. I'm getting a bit tired of seeing all the foul mindsets. (I know some of it was the setting, but it's getting excessive. Every time we have Mike in a scene it seems a racial slur is used somewhere.)If any of those mindsets were in the movie, they were few and far between.
They didn't bother me because people like that exist (racists) and so King is showing it. Realism doesn't bother me - he definitely made the bullies true bullies, glad I didn't know any like that around here growing up. Some definite sickos. The movie was made for TV so couldn't even be a true R rating, so it would have removed that stuff and watered down a lot of the book - the serious stuff, the horror stuff, and the violence.
65% doneHaven't read this book for more than 20 years (this is my first reading in original language) but it does not disappoint! I think King created something fantastic here, the length and detailed narrative makes you live, rather than being told the story.
A lot of horrible things happen, but nothing tops the (view spoiler) Damn! That passage is not good for my blood pressure!
I've got about 50 pages left.As much as I dislike the gang bang, Bev at least willingly initiated it and none of the boys tried to hurt her. It was bonding them and helped clear Eddie's mind to be able to find their way out.
I wonder why IT doesn't like Bill saying the rhyme?
Myst wrote: "I wonder why IT doesn't like Bill saying the rhyme? "I think its for the same reason. Saying the rhyme helps Bill concentrate so he doesn't become overwhelmed by fear. Just like Richie's jokes and Stan's birds.
Agree- it allows their minds to connect with a world outside the terror and illusions IT creates.
486 pages in, less than half way. I don't think I'm gonna make it. I'll keep reading it this time though.
I read this book about two years ago or so. I adored it so much! I won't get into specifics, as I'm doing a whole series on King's bibliography on my page called The Realm of Uncle Steve. Come check it out why don't ya! Tied with The Stand as my favorite King book... Happy Hauntings!
Oh I forgot this was this month's read! I LOVE this book. Every few years when there's a really bad thunderstorm with water rushing through the gutters here in Central FL I have to read it.
I love the Derry Interludes - even though the Black Spot story is so ugly, it really feels like a slice of Americana.
Agree on the kids having sex - it weirded me out when I originally read the book (about 17 I think?) and always has. The kids' age doesn't bother me, but it never felt like a big bonding moment, even though it's consensual. Bev's place in the Losers always bothered me too; even though she has the +5 Slingshot Ability the sex scene took that away and made her big contribution about her body again.
I agree, that stuff was really weird and unnecessary. I also thought the scene with Pennywise disguised as Beverly's father earlier in the book was disturbing and unnecessary as well.
That scene was one of the most disturbing to me. It worked in the context of the story since IT is threatened by her ability to strengthen the group bond through sex, and her father had weirdass overprotective instincts about it and she can't very well kill her father with the slingshot, so IT is working to devalue her worth to the group. Heh, maybe it was a little TOO effective!
Yeah, it was a little too effective! Anyone watch the mini-series from 1990? It totally makes the book look like a crappy b-movie (I know that was the inspiration for the monsters within the novel, but it's much, much more!) I originally didn't want to read the novel after watching the mini-series, but I picked up a copy and loved the crap outta' that book! I'll read it again in another 29 years :)
I just finished for the first time in more than 20 years and I'm very glad to say I think it held up well! I was a bit wary about it, since I recently re-read The Stand and sadly enough I find myself liking that one less each time... Agree with all here about the low point of IT also - can't for the life of me figure out why that was necessary!? It has been suggested that it was Beverly's way of pulling the group together during the confrontation but that's really not the sequence of events (view spoiler) Just weird!
I just finished for the first time in more than 20 years and I'm very glad to say I think it held up well! I was a bit wary about it, since I recently re-read The Stand and sadly enough I find myself liking that one less each time... Agree with all here about the low point of IT also - can't for the life of me figure out why that was necessary!? It has been suggested that it was Beverly's way of pulling the group together during the confrontation but that's really not the sequence of events (view spoiler) Just weird!
Anyone watch the mini-series from 1990? Tim Curry FTW! He OWNED scary clowns. I've seen dozens of scary clown movies and nobody's come close.
I'll read it again in another 29 years :)
Ha ha - My first SK book was Cycle of the Werewolf, which I read when I was 12 - I missed the 20 year anniversary reread, maybe I'll do 25 later this year! ;D
Taking me a lot longer to get through this book than it usually would because I've had so much on my plate but wish I had more reading time for it. Can't believe I've waited this long to read it again! This is one of Kings best books, without a doubt.
Aw, well hang in there! Being a grownup with responsibilities that get in the way of reading - NO FUN.
Jennnanigans wrote: "Aw, well hang in there! Being a grownup with responsibilities that get in the way of reading - NO FUN."Yes that is very true! I write, I study, I have three small children, a house and pets to take care of but I still try to read as much as I can. If I didn't I think I would go mad!
I also have adult duties that get in the way of reading
thank you everyone for choosing this book. I have looked at it in the library but not taken it. I was put off by the length. I love it. I forgot how good King can be. Nice book to recover with
About Cycle of the Werewolf, it reminds me of a B-Movie from '50s and/or an EC Horror comic. It wasn't my first endeavor into King (that honor goes to Pet Sematary), but it's definitely one of my favorites by him!
Cycle is TOTALLY like an old b-movie- I think that's why I like a lot of his 80s writing, that vintage feel and the obsesison with 50s stuff, like hot rods and high school and such. The movie was fun - always a delight to watch Gary Busey be Gary Busey! :D I liked Pet Sematary too - saw it when I was probably too little before I read the book and both scared the hell out of me for years. But I kept coming back for more!
Pet Sematary (1989) is the type of movie to eat popcorn while scaring the crap out of yourself! I love his period in the 70s-early 90s where his writing felt more raw, incorporating dark, disturbing elements with his novels which contained B-movie sensibilities. His modern stuff is good, too, especially when he harkens back to his old style (Revival, anyone?)
Sonya wrote: I also have adult duties that get in the way of reading RIGHT?
MoviesForYourBrain:
I am right there with you, about the 70s-early 90s. I have only read a little of his more recent stuff, like Lisey's Story and the story collections.
I think you're really on to something with that observation: the content is B-movie, but the writing is always thoughtful and compelling, especially the older stuff. Like all the characters in IT are so real - you never question their actions (until the terrible scene). Even the creepy kid Patrick Hockstetter (I will NEVER forget that kid) is fascinating in his own disturbing way!
Ole' Hockstetter! What a messed up guy he was! Especially the scene with him and Henry Bowers at the dump! I'm reading The Long Walk (1979), and that is some of the darkest stuff King has ever written (it's a Bachman book, so, yeah). It contains scenes of children being shot (think of the scene from Assault on Precinct 13 from 1978, except more gruesome, and more often) by Marines! Pretty bleak stuff, IMO.
GOD. Henry Bowers. That kid is some kind of villain! I've always pictured him as a miniature version of Henry Rollins for some reason - and the adult version as an overweight, balding version of same. Not that the man has any of those characteristics but that's just how I've always pictured him. I feel like I read some of The Long Walk years ago - that sounds familiar (and also horrifying). If I dig myself out from my to-read pile I'll add it! :D
Get ready for a pitch black ride of a novel if you do get around to reading it! Have you read Thinner yet?
MoviesForYourBrain wrote: "Ole' Hockstetter! What a messed up guy he was! Especially the scene with him and Henry Bowers at the dump! I'm reading The Long Walk (1979), and that is some of the darkest stuff King has ever writ..."I think there must've been a bully named Patrick Hockstetter in King's past, because the name pops up in several novels (he's a creepy doctor in Firestarter).
If you're reading The Long Walk in the Bachman Books, have you read Rage? He pulled that story after school shooters claimed to have been inspired by that story.
I've read Rage. Reminded me of The Breakfast Club meets Die Hard!
Patrick Hockstetter was mentioned in three of King's books: Once as a perverted bully (It), once as a creepy doctor (Firestarter), and once where he was mentioned passively (11/22/63). I don't know what drove King to mention him so much, but it's there, so, yeah...
MoviesForYourBrain wrote: "Patrick Hockstetter [...] once where he was mentioned passively (11/22/63)."I haven't read that book, but I'd wager Hockstetter was an evil/cruel character?
Either Hockstetter is a buddy and King just loves to needle him by giving his name to creeps and psychopaths, or Hockstetter is a tormentor from the past.
It would be one of the things I'd ask King if I'd ever get to speak to him.
He's mentioned as being evil, but, yeah I'd want to question King on the origins of Patrick Hockstetter.
Have you read Thinner yet? I did in my youthful days, but I can't recall anything about it, other than stuff from the movie.
I haven't read Rage, but I remember another school-shooter type story of King's... Cain Rose Up? I recall a kid on a hillside or something and the last line was "In the end it took [specific information not recalled] to bring him down." I might be confusing some diff stories.
Patrick Hockstetter *shudders* - I think what upsets me most about him is that I was ALWAYS friends with kids like this in school, and there was a point where I wondered if I could be one, too; NOT the molesting other kids and smothering the baby thing, more like being a space cadet and having trouble relating to others. That's one of those transcendent 'what is real horror?' moments of King's that bring me back to his work so much.
I haven't read 11/22/63 but I do recall mention of him in Firestarter, can't recall the context though. I think you're on to something, Baron!
Jennnanigans wrote: "Have you read Thinner yet? I did in my youthful days, but I can't recall anything about it, other than stuff from the movie.
I haven't read Rage, but I remember another school-shooter type story..."
"It was x hours later and almost dark before they took him down" - Apt Pupil. For the record my memory is terrible, but I'm on a King re-read and recently read it...
Apt Pupil is one of the most disturbing King stories I've ever read! Those dream sequences especially!
Ahhh, that's the one! Apt Pupil! SO disturbing. I thought the story was scarier than the movie - the kid in the book was so much more self-assured, if I remember correctly, not brooding at all.
I am finish IT! I think I will read Firestarter again now. I saw it mentioned and it reminded me what a great book it is!!! Off I go to read it now Lol :-)
Enjoy it, Mel! Nice profile picture!
Melissa wrote: "I'm still in the first few pages of the book. I read it many many years ago as a child and I don't even remember any of the gay stuff. Was it in the movie because I don't remember that either :-/" I don't think it was in the movie. I haven't watched the movie since I was a kid, but I don't think half the racial / sexual politics were involved.
There's a scene -- one of the early modern scenes -- where a gay man is murdered, and it goes into depth about the way Derry felt about the burgeoning gay population.
A bar owner doesn't realize his bar has become a gay bar and doesn't seem to care, because he's done relatively well with his business. The local cops are homophobic but have largely a "live and let live" policy on how they approach them.
I've also seen a LOT of weird racial politics in the book. Richie Tozier uses a pickaninny voice -- which would be really, REALLY weird in a current novel -- and yet he also uses it in front of Mike without even a second thought.
It's probably time-correct -- plenty of white people probably used racially insensitive voices back then -- but I wonder what a 2015 audience thinks of it.
Jennnanigans wrote: "GOD. Henry Bowers. That kid is some kind of villain! I've always pictured him as a miniature version of Henry Rollins for some reason - and the adult version as an overweight, balding version of sa..."Agreed. He's an excellent villain, because he recognizes what he's doing but doesn't really care. He follows in a long line of King villains killing off dogs -- Dead Zone, anyone? -- and seems to have a moral compass; it's just bent in the complete opposite direction it should have.
The Dead Zone is one of my favorite King novels as it isn't traditional horror, it's more cerebral, like Misery.
It's probably time-correct -- plenty of white people probably used racially insensitive voices back then -- but I wonder what a 2015 audience thinks of it. As a white person I always wondered this.
There's a moment in the book when Mike is talking to some other little boy and the little boy says something breathtakingly racist and Mike feels that divide between then open up - I don't know how other people felt about that but it always stuck with me. I've felt similar divides between myself and others (people making sexist jokes, or laughing about "trailer trash" when most of my family live in trailers). It's obviously not the same thing AT ALL but it started me thinking about racial politics in the U.S. in a more personal way than my history classes.
I'm writing a fantasy novel with a lot of different people of color characters (think Discworld meets The Wire, heh) and researching the discussion about how people of color are portrayed in speculative fiction has been interesting. I hope a lot of people chime in on this thread!
MoviesForYourBrain wrote: "The Dead Zone is one of my favorite King novels as it isn't traditional horror, it's more cerebral, like Misery."Yes The Dead Zone is also another really good King book! Will have to read it again one of these days
Jennanigans, this is off topic, but I have a question for you. How is the book Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? I added it to my to read list, and it said you had read it, so I just thought I would ask how the book is quality wise.
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The Colorado Kid (other topics)It (other topics)
It (other topics)
Det (other topics)
It (other topics)
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I think this book had the same effect for clowns that JAWS had for sharks and the ocean, haha. We suddenly became hyper aware of every shark or shark attack.