Queen Maas' Assassins discussion
Pairings: TOG
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Celaena & Dorian ~ Pairing Discussion
Truthfully, in Throne of Glass I wanted Celaena with Dorian. But in Crown of Midnight I said uh no.... Back off Dorian. Celaena has Chaol. I was heartbroken during Crown of Midnight though at one point.
I'm so confused; what is this old version Queen of Glass book of which you speak?!
Queen of Glass was the original version of ToG that Sarah wrote on fictionpress when she was 16. She took the books down from the site a couple of years ago. It's really sad though i wish i could've read it. I hope Pearl is right about Dorian maturing later on and Celaena falling in love with him again XD Don't get me wrong i love Chaol but i guess i sort like Dorian just a little bit more..
There's something in the Queen of Glass that would make you happy Alia if you are on Dorian's side... I'm not going into any further details than that. Hehe. But we do have a few more books even after crown of midnight soooo anything can happen ;)
gahhh! now you got my all excited! Is there really no place for me to read Queen of Glass?
Yvonne said: "Btw to the people who have read the old version... Was there a Wendlyn prince and did we already know him? Or is he a new character?"
From what I remember, yes, Aedion was in Queen of Glass, along with this-person-whose-full-name-I'd-forgotten-over-the-years; Artulian.
From what I remember, yes, Aedion was in Queen of Glass, along with this-person-whose-full-name-I'd-forgotten-over-the-years; Artulian.
I heard Aedion is a lot like Celaena and lots of people shipped them together.. Is that true?
Yep. Aedion was like a male version of Celaena back in QoG. One look and you'd think they're twins or at least siblings lol
But I don't really ship Aedion/Celaena. That would be too weird cause they're more like brother and sister, ya know?
Cool! now i'm really looking forward to meeting him.. But if that were true though then why is it that nobody (as in Dorian and the King) sees the resemblance
I don't know.. Maybe Aedion disguises himself around them. Or maybe they just didn't notice it. But they resembled each other back in QoG, who knows if Maas changed that in ToG?
Yeah, maybe. I wonder how Celaena would react when she sees him for the first time after years
I bet her jaw would drop lol. Cause Aedion, being an Ashryver, is so darn hot. But knowing Celaena, she'd probably go "Eh, I've seen better" XD
Knowing Celaena she would stare into the mirror then say that
Sydney wrote: "I thought Celaena and Dorian's relationship was rushed, like it was more lust than deeper feelings for one another.I also remember at some point during the novel -I think one of the training scene..."
If I recall Rosalyn in the right way, she just dumped Dorian for other guy? And broke his heart doing that. But I don't remenber Chaol and Dorian sharing an infatuation with her, and Chaol loved another girl who cheatted him with Roland? Oh...I'm crazy? hehehe so many books...so many characters
Pearl wrote: "Hi everyone. I am one of the few FictionPress followers of Queen of Glass before it became Throne of Glass and believe me, Sara made ALOT of changes. I mean ALOT. If anyone here read the original v..."Thank you so much Pearl. You give me hope hahahahahahahha with my ship
I am SO Team Dorian.Chaol's cute too, believe me, I like him. I might have even chosen him for Celaena had I not already fallen for Dorian. Hard. I was already smitten with him by the time Chaol came into the love triangle, a reason for that being his quiet sensitivity and determination to be a good king and help his people, unlike his father. It's just that... he's so sweet to Celaena, and just because he's somewhat materialistic doesn't mean he's shallow or a player or a bad guy in any way. That's simply the way he was raised: in luxury. It's not his fault he's a Havilliard. In fact, his refusal to be what the rest of his family wants him to be is part of the reason why I was so drawn to him. Instead of being a cruel, tyrannical brute, he chooses to be kind, charming, intelligent, thoughtful, sensitive...and he loves book. That adds 110% more amazingness. And he's just so adorable... he may be the prince, but he goes through struggles of his own. It's just so sweet to see how he struggles on how to best approach Celaena, or show his feelings for her without being tactless. Their flirting is so cute... but Celaena is blinded by her apprehension of Dorian just because he's the prince. She refuses to try to see him as an individual and actually get to know him.
On the othee hand, Dorian actually did want to know about her. His naiveté made him want to get to know Celaena as a person and not an assassin. Even though he didn't need to be kind to her, he still did, being one of her only unconditional friends/supporters, simply out of the kindness of his heart.
Moreover, Celaena ditched him for no valid reason at all, claiming that she wants to be "free." I get that, but it makes me want to cry when I see how much Dorian loves her and how willing he is to do anything to be with her. That's saying a lot, considering how his father is a tyrant (again, not his fault!) and will probably not care that Dorian is his son when the time comes to dole out punishments. Some people say he's a coward, but I vehemently disagree. He's doing all he can without making all hell break loose. If your father was an evil tyrant, I daresay you wouldn't have done better then he has. That makes the vicious arguments that extreme Chaol fans create to debase and humiliate Dorian invalid.
Which leads to my next statement about how Dorian is an extremely misunderstood character. I don't mean offense to anyone, but a lot of the mean comments people make about Dorian being shallow and a playboy are baseless. They say that he doesn't really love Celaena, that he's stupid for trusting her without getting to know her first, that he only liked her because she was pretty, that he wouldn't stay with her for long... the people who say these things don't truly understand him as a character. While some claim he's shallow, he is in truth a very layered character with real feelings and a deep love for Celaena, unlike what many Chaol fans believe. The reason he trusted her at first was not because he was stupid, or she was pretty; it was because poor, sweet Dorian was naive enough to see the good in her. Furthermore, he felt a connection to her internally that made him feel safe with her, that assured him that she wouldn't hurt him. I can't find the exact quote in the book where he realized that, but it was there. I remember.
Those who claim that Dorian only loved Celaena because she was pretty are forgetting the fact that she was filthy and disgusting when she first met him. Dorian saw her beauty, but in her eyes and her actions, not in her appearance. Quote from ToG: "He found her beautiful, if a bit strange and sour. It was something in the way that her eyes sparked when she looked at something lovely in the landscape. He couldn’t understand it." The way her eyes sparked. Her expression. I don't know what more to say.
Next, I can't see what C+C shippers see in their claim that Dorian and Celaena have nothing in common.
It breaks my to hear people say that.
Dorian and Celaena are a match made in heaven. I feel this even more strongly than ever after finishing CoM. How can they have more in common? Dorian is a prince, and Celaena is a princess. They both love books with a passion. Their banter is unbearably adorable... and their chemistry is E-LEC-TRIC. Dorian makes me swoon and I have a feels attack every time there's a Celorian/Doraena moment. I ship them with a passion. Celorian/Doraena is my OTP.
That being said, it makes me want to punch Celaena in the face (even though probably wouldn't survive after that) when I see how she treats Dorian. He showed her nothing but kindness and sweetness, supporting her in his own way. He even gave her a freaking puppy. And when he was teaching her how to play billiards... oh my god I wanted to die it was so amazing. But then Celaena... she ditched him for no apparent reason... and then went running to Chaol, and when they got into a fight, she went back to Dorian because there was no one else to go to. He was always there for her. Always. Yet she... didn't care. She was using him, I tell you.
Oh, and did anyone else realize that she's kind of a hypocrite, and so was Chaol? She told Dorian that things wouldn't work out because he was the prince... yet apparently they can work out with Chaol even though he's the Captain of the king's guard? And Chaol... how could he tell her that being in love with Dorian was unwise, and then end up with her himself? You call that wise?
That being said... Dorian is amazing and I will love him throughout this entire series. If he doesn't end up with Celaena, I am going to die. *sighs* But in this case, I don't think he's going to win. It's heartbreaking to see all those hard core Chaol fans... and then realize that not many people support Team Dorian anymore. I do, and I will always stand by him regardless of whether Celaena chooses him or not. Dorian loves Celaena so much... yet Celaena loved Chaol the way Dorian loves her. It's so sad and sweet to see Dorian trying to let her go.., and it's a mark of his love for her when he does so, trying to respect her decision because he wants to see her happy. Because that's what true love really is; a desire to keep the person you love happy, even if it's not with you.
People who can't see Dorian foe his true, charming, endearing self aren't digging deep enough. They say Dorian's feelings aren't as genuine as Chaol's, but in fact, I believe his are more so. They're just hidden, because he doesn't want to hurt anyone. He doesn't want to become his father. He wants to love and be loved instead of forcing his love upon another. If Celaena can't see him for who he truly is, that's her loss.
Dorian is the best. Team Dorian ftw!!!
I can't wait until HoF comes out.
Is there even a ship name for Celaena/Dorian?
Okay. So, you brought up some pretty good points too, but...1) Chaol doesn't like books the way Dorian and Celaena do. I feel like that is a connection only they share.
2) That's like the only time I was upset with Dorian, too... but my defense for that is that it's not his fault he was brought up that way. He could have tuened out a lot worse considering the rest of his family.
3) Dorian is a really dynamic character, and I feel like he would do anything for her... his determination was such in a way that he was sure he could find a way for them to be be together...against all odds. Who knows, maybe the king will die. Maybe they could run away or something. There are a lot of options! If only Celaena was ready to face them. Oh and also... Chaol can resign, but I don't think he would want to. Didn't he run away from home to serve the king? If he resigned, where would he go? Home? I don't think so. In that way, Celaena's relationship would be risky with both Dorian and Chaol.
I have another thing to add: It can NOT be a coincidence that Dorian can see Gavin and Celaena can see Elena. Their bond runs deep. Moreover, they're both magical. They're meant to be!!
I ship Dorian+Celaena passionately, but I love Chaol too. I just don't want him to end up with Celaena because Dorian loves her more, and I feel like he deserves her.
Maybe it's just me. But I want Doraena to happen more than anything. I wouldn't have been too upset with Nehemia+Dorian either, but ovviously not anymore.
Can't wait to see what HoF holds!!!
Lol, Chalcedony, I personally like Doraena, though Celorian is fine, too.
I became a Team Dorian fan ever since I fell in love with his character and love for Celaena in Throne of Glass. I will continue to be a Team Dorian fan through the whole series. Also I love that his character loves reading books just as much as Celaena. They are perfect for each other. I am so glad to have found some Team Dorian fans.
CHAEOLAENA ALL THE WAY! But I don't mind them a smidge. If it happen it happens, I'll be distraught is Chaol and her don't end up together. Dorian can always find someone else.
What the eff is this "Dorian needs to let go...Dorian needs to find someone else...."crap ?!? He HAS let her go!! It's all right there in CoM. He and I and some of his fans knows he deserves better. Someone who will love him the way he loves them. So far that has not been Celaena. Uch! I don't know why these Chaol fans are constantly phrasing their criticisms of a Dorian/Celaena pairing in a way to make it seem like Dorian is still chasing her. Get off his royal highness and go harp on Chaol's support page! He's not chasing down your precious pairing (that's ALREADY a wreck) to home-wreck the two hypocrites, betrayers of his heart and friendship. He has bigger fish to fry: Like how to hone his magic and hide it from the king.
I swear Dorian is deserving of much better than Celaena and Choal. The Chaol fans alone make me like him less, never mind his constant stupidity and fuckups. Some captain of the king's guard he is.
I want to reply to you Stephanie but I don't know whether you've read HoF. But fair enough. Still, Dorian thought of Celaena of an 'escape' like he mentioned in ToG, he went to find her to get out of the castle. Also, the shit between Chaol and Cel only makes the ship more realistic. Yes, the signs are there, Dorian won't get Cel but you can never know. It's 50/50 or not even that. People might die and Sarah can easily kill someone.
In response to the last few comments...1) Dorian has more page time...? I think the right way to say that is Dorian FINDS more page time. It's not like he has any less responsibility. Yeah, Chaol's Captain of the Guard, but Dorian's the Crown Prince. It's a mark of his love for books that he consults books whenever he encounters a problem. Chaol's not like that. For him, books are a pastime, but for Celaena and Dorian (not to mention me XD) books are LIFE.
2) I feel the same way about Chaol as you feel about Dorian. He's really awesome, but for some reason I get really annoyed when he's around Celaena. Maybe it's just me.
3) Well, okay, maybe the whole "deserving love" thing is just cheesy BS, but I can't help that I'm a hopeless romantic and when it comes to my OTP, well... things just seem that way.
4) I. Know. Right?!?!?! I want an HoF ARC soooooo badly!!! It is taking every ounce of my willpower and self control to not look at the HoF spoilers!!! Gahhh! #thefangirlstruggleistooreal
5) Okay. About the whole "Dorian needs to let go" thing... I feel VERY strongly about that. First of all, he DID try to let go. He's not a selfish hypocrite; he actually did try to feel happy for Celaena. When he saw the way she looked at Chaol, he wished it was him but was glad that she found someone who she could look at like that. He accepted it. When she heartlessly ditched him, he respected her decision, and heartbroken as he was, he still didn't try to chase after her or convince her to change her mind. He let go. He didn't try to get in the way of her+Chaol. BUT. It's not easy to let go. If you think it's possible for him to just stop loving Celaena like THAT, you're mistaken. It takes time. Naturally he still has feelings for her. Not everyone is as heartless as Celaena, switching between lovers at her whim. He wants to be able to love her... he can't just let go so fast. Believe me, he's trying... but it may not be so easy when he's the one Celaena comes to talk to now that Chaol is on bad terms with her. Again, she's using him, I'm pretty sure, but you can't blame him for being hopeful.
It's really sad how there are barely any Team Dorian fans out there. I don't care if you ship Chaol, that's fine, it's just that I really hate when people are rude and overbearing about it. It's nice to find some people who respect that you ship someone other than them... thank you for that.
Oh and it's even better to find some fellow Doraena fans... though they are scarce. Doraena ftw!!!!!! XD
Er, Stephanie, your passion is laudable, but I don't think H99 was trying to be offensive. I think what she meant is that she wants Dorian to find someone else. Sometimes things come out blunt or the wrong way. Happens to everyone. I feel strongly towards the statement too, but I don't think she deserves to be yelled at. XDAnd, no, H99, quite the opposite. I didn't think you were rude at all. :)
Naw, you're fine. I do that a lot too. XD I fangirl a lot and then I get carried away and sometimes I get into screaming matches and then I calm down and then someone starts roleplay and then I start being a psycho and then I start whacking people all ovwr the place and then...Ahem.
Sorry.
^v^
Even tho I feel like there's not much hope, I still feel protective over the Doraena ship ^^
Hahaha me too! We can only wait.....*hides in corner and waits for HoF while biting nails anxiously*
Zully wrote: "I want to reply to you Stephanie but I don't know whether you've read HoF. But fair enough. Still, Dorian thought of Celaena of an 'escape' like he mentioned in ToG, he went to find her to get out ..."Zully, I did read HoF, yes.
I don't agree with your thoughts that his feelings for Celaena boil down to him using her as a means to escape, though. That wasn't it at all, even though it played a part behind the reason he sought her out. He wanted to get to know her. And maybe it's just me, but I can't help feeling that there was familiarity that struck him in someways that increased his interest. The fact that he met her as a child and at a party not too long a ago. There was something about her that immediately called to him. As Gargi pointed out, it wasn't just her looks either, or anything shallow as that and escape.
I think his brokenness in CoM, and his anger at Celaena when she told him his feelings for her were disingenuous, are key scenes that speak to how he felt about her. Also, even though he eventually decides to be her friend, it didn't diminish his true feelings for her--he was in love with her--it was just him making the decision to not short change himself any longer--being there for her in the way that she'd have him (as a friend), and saving that kind of energy for someone who could love him as he loved them.
I just don't see why fans of Choal and Celaena make it seem like Dorian is getting in the way of Choal and Celaena being together. He. Is. Not. Therefore I don't see why the abuse is necessary. He has let go, he has not been chasing down the assassin and princess to make her his queen.
Really I just want him to fall in love with a badass bawse b*tch that can go toe to toe with him as an overall person and heir to a throne. Someone who would challenge him, laugh with him, and love him for everything he is. Partially why he fell in love with Celaena was because she didn't enjoy him bc of his status, and was not intimidated by it. (view spoiler) THAT is the kind of equal he needs. As an analogy, think of Jay-Z and Beyonce, can you see either of them with someone lesser?
Whomever Sarah decides to be his lady love, she has to be his equal. They have to be a power couple. Like Gavin and Elena. At least that's what would satisfy me. Anything less would be disappointing. Could that be Celaena? Yes, but I'm not cheering for it, wishing it will be so. But, I wouldn't be angry if it happened, as I know it would make Dorian happy. And by the time it would happen, I'm sure Aelin would have made things right between the two of them, where I could support it without reservations. I don't ever want either of these characters to settle, least of all Dorian.
Gargi wrote: "In response to the last few comments...1) Dorian has more page time...? I think the right way to say that is Dorian FINDS more page time. It's not like he has any less responsibility. Yeah, Chaol'..."
Good job Gargi! I know exactly how you feel. The crazy thing is that every one of those ppl saying Dorian needs to let go don't seem to understand that Dorian isn't standing in the way of their SHIP in any way shape or form, so why is that even being harped on?
H99 wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "What the eff is this "Dorian needs to let go...Dorian needs to find someone else...."crap ?!? He HAS let her go!! It's all right there in CoM. He and I and some of his fans knows..."But his fans shipping him with Celaena are not his fault. What does that have to do with him needing to let go, especially when he already has? It's not to do with you H99, it's just that you were the last one to make a similar comment in a barrage full of them on the thread that is meant to support the Dorian/Celaena pairing. I didn't mean to make it come off as a personal attack, more so for the general group who feel this way.
If it's annoying for you and the rest to see him still being shipped so much, how do you think the ppl who support the ship feel when they come to the discussion thread that is suppose to be celebrating HIS pairing with Celaena to see all these comments about how he needs to GTFO and "CHAOLAENA ALL THE WAY!!!"?
The Choal and Celaena thread would be a better place to go celebrate that if that's your thing, I think. At least it would appease your own frustrations in having to see it so much.
Of course ppl can comment on any thread they want and say whatever the hell they want, it's just I don't see the point of raining on anyone else's parade when you have your own going on else where.
But in end, the bottom line is that it is fact that there are Chaol and Celaena shippers disparaging Dorian's character in relation to Celaena with untruth. I don't get how on one hand his feeling for Celaena are apparently superficial and not real, but on the other hand people are annoyed that he thought of his love for her often in CoM. People who don't have real feelings for someone else don't often keep thinking about them day in day out. And despite him nursing his broken heart, he didn't continue to expose his feelings to her after that final conversation that set it straight.
I'm definitely not abusing Dorian. He just can find someone other than Celaena, like you said, some equal to him. He should be happy and I wish he does get shipped with someone in a steadfast ship. If my comment came off as "Boo, Dorian" I didn't mean it like that. I like Dorian and I do acknowledge Cel won't be with him but I personally see Celaena's and Chaol as more relaxed, friendly in both ToG and CoM. Dorian felt like a business acquaintance in the first half of ToG where as right off the bat, Celaena is annoying Chaol, messing around and that's where I see a relationship (Not just a romantic one).
Dorian loved Cel, no question but she didn't love him as strongly so I hope Dorian does find someone. I guess the whole 'Chaol' commenting on here is because it's obvious DorianxCelaena ship won't happen but yes, Dorian shippers should relive the happiness from ToG. Not saying you can't.
Zully wrote: "I'm definitely not abusing Dorian. He just can find someone other than Celaena, like you said, some equal to him. He should be happy and I wish he does get shipped with someone in a steadfast ship...."I guess there a bunch of us who disagree. It happens. I didn't see it as a business acquaintance at all. But we all perceive things differently, and it's why books are so subjective.
As far as it's obvious it won't happen, I say to that (not that I care one way or the other, it's just that some ppl do) it's not...necessarily. Not at all. There are still 3 or 4 more books to go and a lot can change. THAT is why there are a lot ppl still holding onto hope regarding their pairing. In fact, that's what happened with the original Queen of Glass story.
Not saying Sarah will keep that particular story line, but it's still any man's game in a lot of ways. That's all. So I wouldn't count that ship out yet completely.
True, anything can still happen with the next books. I know the Queen of Glass ending but it's likely the storyline has changed or will over the course of the books or could even be the same.We all want different things or interpret the books and events the way we want to see them.
Great points, Stephanie. I agree that people should stop harping on how the Doraena ship is unrealistic, too. We let you ship Chaolaena. So let us ship Doraena. Let us keep stead with the raging fire of hope that is kindled by the dying embers of the defenses made by the supporters of Team Dorian. Let us wait in agony for HoF and several books to come and hope that our hope for Dorian is not futile.Let us ship.
And wait.
And ship.
And wait.
And wait.
And wait.
Amen.
^.^
I really want Dorian and celaena to be together. .
I am trying to avoid reading these comments cause I've only read Throne of Glass... But Choal and Caelena are the best couple no questions asked!
I really like Dorian and I think he is awesome... But.... I still want Chaol and Celaena alll the wayy!!! As long as they end up together Im happy but I still think that she should stay friends with Dorian cause he is still nice :)
Delenn wrote: "I am trying to avoid reading these comments cause I've only read Throne of Glass... But Choal and Caelena are the best couple no questions asked!"How would you know that if you've only read ToG? They (C&C) don't explore a relationship in that book. Or were you referencing the ToG series as a whole in comparison to Queen of Glass?
I have loved Dorian and Caelena together from Throne of Glass. I feel like they both have things in common. They both love literature, and both have magical abilities which we found out in Crown of Midnight. I am sorry Chaol fans, but after what he did when Nehemia was in danger he didn't warn Caelena. If he really cared he would have wanted to keep her friend safe. I am currently reading Heir of Fire. I am hoping that someone else doesn't become another love interest or this will get very confusing.
I will always remain team Dorian.
Rachel wrote: "I have loved Dorian and Caelena together from Throne of Glass. I feel like they both have things in common. They both love literature, and both have magical abilities which we found out in Crown of..."I totally agreed with you, Rachel. Plus, they are also King & Queen which is perfect! <3
I was reading these comments and this whole time I'm thinking this is a thread meant to be about Celaena + Dorian shippers (like me) and for them to discuss how they like them together but half the comments are Chaol + Celaena shippers hating on Dorian and his relationship with Celaena and how their ship is soo much more realistic and better but this thread is for Celorian shippers if you like Celaena and Chaol then talk about it on that thread instead of this one.
Finally! I've found a place where I can put all my Dorian and Celaena feels. However, like Evani have said..most of the comments I found here are pertaining to Chaol and Celaena. Aghh..no offense guys but you have a different thread. Let us Dorian and Celaena shippers fangirl here.I absolutely think that they should end up with each other. Right from ToG, I fell in love with Dorian. He's so charming and funny but there's more to him than that..and I think that's the point of him discovering about his magical powers in CoM. Celaena and Dorian ending up together can happen. They both have magic plus they would make good rulers, King and Queen, of Erilea.
I only finished ToG and CoM..so I still have HoF to read and I'm so excited!!!
Let the Celaena and Dorian (Celorian/Doraena) ship sail!!!
I've been been a Dorian-Celaena supporter since the Queen of Glass / fictionpress days, and it SO breaks my heart to read about Chaol and Celaena in the books! I was literally shocked out of my seat whem I first realized what Maas was leading upto, and 3 books in I'm still in wtf territory. I really, really need them to be together (it's almost like a childhood fantasy now) but the way the series has been progressing it'll take some major drama to resolve it that way, and in any case with the way Celaena feels about Chaol now it'll never feel as pure and true (ugh, but yes) as it all did when I was 15. Oh, well.
A lot has changed in HoF, though, especially regarding Celaena/Aelin and Chaol. I definitely can't see them being endgame anymore. She'd way outgrown him, and he realized it too that she's not going to be the same person whom he'd fell in love with and Aelin might not be the right one for him. I think they're letting each other go in the romantic sense but will remain friends/allies maybe with some minor lingering feelings. I'm also quite sure he's going to get a new love interest.If Maas is planning for the same ending as in QoG (which I kinda doubt :/ ), I agree it's gonna be a lot of hard work to make that realistic because of how they'd been written since the end of the first book. At this point I think the only way to achieve that would be to have them bond with each other (perhaps that's how they get rid of Dorian's collar?), and then gradually fall in love. But that might be just wishful thinking.
Maas is really into Rowan, so it wouldn't be surprising if she put him together with Aelin, but I personally much prefer them as the platonic friends they are right now and wouldn't want that to change. Sigh. We'll gotta wait and see where the next book takes us.
same :)