Queen Maas' Assassins discussion
Pairings: TOG
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Celaena & Dorian ~ Pairing Discussion
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Booknut, Head Moderator
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Jan 13, 2013 12:31AM
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Never? I think they'd be kinda cute together, but she JUST HAS TO END UP WITH CHAOL!!!
XD I agree wholeheartedly. Dorian is more her friend then anything else, and he's the one who knows the most about her past.
Dorian is the root of Celaena's possible demise. Like hell if I'm gonna let that happen.
Mod
♥iLoveBooks♥ *Sonic~Obsessed* wrote: "I read this book about 250 books ago or something like that. Isn't Dorian the Prince? Cuz if he is, I think he and Celaena make a good couple."Yes Dorian is the prince
Mod
Yep, Dorian is the prince. And they're a good couple (no arguments)...but my campaign motto is that Chaol&Celaena (Chelaena? Chaona? Celaol? Ceol?!) are the BEST couple.
I think Dorian and Celaena work well together - but Celaena brought up a pretty good point during the book, when she said Dorian was interested in her only because she was 'new', 'exciting' and 'what his father didn't want'. Dorian had been going around with the equivalent of a chain around his neck, doing his princely duty. Being with Celaena was new and a rollercoaster ride. It made him feel refreshed.
But Celaena doesn't want to be his latest fad or amusement. She knows he's had infatuations before. And yeah, after the last scenes, you can see that maybe Dorian's feelings go deeper than infatuation, but I think his track record ain't too good when it comes to long, lasting relationships. A future for him and Celaena isn't that likely, and if he wanted it badly enough, he'd have to make alot of changes (mainly in the way he views and treats her).
I think one of the reasons Celaena kinda sorta breaks Dorian's heart is because she doesn't want to stick around after her time is up. She made a deal with him which would gain her her freedom, and she doesn't want to have a reason to stick around afterwards. She wants to get as far away as possible from everyone and thing that could remind her of when she was the King's assassin as soon as she can and a relationship she knows won't last with the crown prince isn't something she wants to deal with.
Mod
I agreed whole-heartedly. Being with Dorian would be to hard to her, because she doesn't want a life there anymore. She needs to leave and forget about what she lost, what happened, etc. and have a fresh start.
Too bad for her that rarely happens in stories like this
Mod
*nods* True, true.
I thought Celaena and Dorian's relationship was rushed, like it was more lust than deeper feelings for one another.I also remember at some point during the novel -I think one of the training scenes, when Dorian is there- Chaol mentions that they had liked the same woman in the past (Rosalyn or something) and Dorian truly loved her and her death changed him. (I think, I'll be sure to double check later)
I know it's a bit random, but I don't think she would be mentioned for no reason other than to give insight to Dorian's past. Maybe there is some part of Celaena that reminds him of the girl he used to love?
Mod
I also remember at some point during the novel -I think one of the training scene..."
If he's just being with Celaena 'cause she reminds him of someone else...that's just low. No offence meant to him, but it's not really being with Celaena for Celaena.
If it were because he was reminded of his ex then I would think it be for other reasons as well, he just doesn't seem the type of person to do that.
Mod
See, that's what I thought. Dorian isn't the King of Tact and Manners but he definitely doesn't seem to have that kind of behaviour in him.
Indeed. It would be quite insulting if I found out I was only liked because I reminded someone of another person.I mainly mentioned that because I don't quite understand why Celaena likes Dorian. He's the Prince, he represents everything she wants to get away from.
As for Dorian I felt that he became infatuated with Celaena very quickly, (and since I try to find the good in everyone) I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he didn't just see Celaena as something new and shiny.
But then again, I may be trying to hard. ;)
As Booknut pointed out earlier, Celaena was just a passing fad for Dorian. She was something new for him to give his attention to. She was his champion and he needed her, she just so happened to be about his age, had a pretty face, and an actual personality (compared to the court girls he had dealt with before)
Well goodness, I came here to find like minded people who maybe were in Dorian's corner, being that this is the pairing being discussed, but all it is is a reiteration of the Celaena/Chaol ship, of which I'm not into. I mean there is already a C/C discussion thread...Must find a discussion thread more conducive for my Team Dorian feels.
Well, why do you want Dorian to end up with Celaena?
WordlesslyAmazed03 wrote: "Well, why do you want Dorian to end up with Celaena?"
Yeah Why?
I really don't think they'll end up together.
Yeah Why?
I really don't think they'll end up together.
I was more going for the effect of making Stephanie feel like we're interested in her opinion on both sides of the triangle...
I've always liked Dorian; right off the top. He's been a genuinely good guy in the story and lighthearted, but with a sense of duty. I feel like he's grossly misunderstood/misrepresented(?) character, and underestimated by many readers, chiefly the Chaol Fangirls, and this is coming from someone who was pretty fine with her choosing either of them at the end of #ToG, though with maybe just a little more favor for Dorian. It's why I liked the love triangle angle (I normally loathe them) so much bc, for me, there didn't seem to be an unsuitable choice in any direction. Though, in my heart of hearts, I more so desired for her to choose Dorian. For me he was very kind and funny. Charming and endearing, he sought her out while once she moved into the castle proper, trying to bring her a sense of joy since she was having such a crummy time being in that castle surrounded by the boredom of life at court.
He'd engage her desires and likes on a whim, finding ways to make her laugh and make her happy. AND, he gave her a freaking puppy!
I felt this way before reading Crown of Midnight, and even more so now more than ever.
For a very long time in the book, most of it even, Chaol was a jerk towards her to her, straight up assholery jerkiness, not the kind that engages in banter as a means to flirt. But, I also feel his character was given the opportunity to show more layers in regards to that and his feelings for her, than say the secrets in Dorian's heart. They're there for Dorian, but you have to search a little harder for them.
I agree, Chaol got to spend more time with her and therefore has a little more insight to the girl she is, really is, more so than Dorian in some respects. However, I don't think that makes him less suitable for her. And furthermore, I for one didn't get the feeling that his feelings for her were merely superficial, as being thrown around in this thread. Just because one of his initial thoughts was to pursue her to piss of his father, at the end of the day he first found her attractive and interesting. RL people who end up together find something attractive and interesting for them want to have an inkling of pursuing a relationship with them. Then they stay once they learn more about the person that continues to build on that initial physical attraction, which I think is the case for D.
There is more that I could argue in relation to Dorian and why he is just as good as a worthy candidate for Celaena, especially on that last thought, but that discussion would have to be after CoM is published and has been read by the masses. Personally, I have hope that if SJM's direction with this book is to follow the same question she asked herself when she first started out the journey on writing this story, then maybe it will work out for my ship.
I think the harsh and baseless criticisms from the rabid Chaol shippers has worked only to push me over into Dorian's camp even more. I actually ended up liking Chaol a lot less by the time I started CoM because of it. Not his fault, I know, but alas...
Also, this is not an Edward/Jacob situation for me at all. Although, I'm feeling humbled by what the Team Jacob gals had to put up with when I was all Team Edward crazy.
Stephanie wrote: "I've always liked Dorian; right off the top. He's been a genuinely good guy in the story and lighthearted, but with a sense of duty. I feel like he's grossly misunderstood/misrepresented(?) charact..."Nicely written! And I agree. I love Dorian. I think his character has layers. He’s in a stressful and somewhat lonely situation with the gap between what his family wants from him, and what he finds his heart saying. He’s got people trying to use him to further their own agendas. I see him as a good guy and a cutie. He's my favorite character :)
Yes, but if she doesn't love Dorian, she doesn't love Dorian. Maybe I'm just daft, but I still believe in things like soul mates. If Chaol is who she's meant to be with, she'll end up with him, one way or another.
WordlesslyAmazed03 wrote: "Yes, but if she doesn't love Dorian, she doesn't love Dorian. Maybe I'm just daft, but I still believe in things like soul mates. If Chaol is who she's meant to be with, she'll end up with him, one..."Who's to say she doesn't love Dorian? I would gather that she cares deeply for both boys at this point. Although she may try to convince herself otherwise so that she doesn't get attached to them before she plans to leave. I don't think she knows yet, which one of them, if any, she wants to be with. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I can't wait for the next book!
Ah, yes, but as the quote goes...--"You can love a lot of people in this world, but there's only one person that you love the most."
--"What if you let that person get away?"
--"That person's not going anywhere."
We don't know which one she loves the most yet.
Well, yes, that is the point of a love triangle, isn't it? Everyone believes the one character loves one of the other two the most. We usually can't deny their feelings for each other, whichever side we're pulling for, but essentially, we all believe that the side with the strongest pull will survive. It's practically biology class.
WordlesslyAmazed03 wrote: "Well, yes, that is the point of a love triangle, isn't it? Everyone believes the one character loves one of the other two the most. We usually can't deny their feelings for each other, whichever si..."True :) It will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
Ah, back to the crux of the thing. Yes, indeed it will be.
Mod
There is one uncontested point - that Celaena does love both men. Maybe she loves one more. Maybe the kind of love she feels towards one of them is different, and deeper, more romantic. But she does care about both of them.
I think that the term 'love triangle' can't be used, because it isn't two guys fighting over one girl, or one girl undecided over two guys. The relationships are far more complex than that.
Maybe the two guys need to analyse their feelings more - to see if anything has changed. Feelings do change, and often characters in other series' forget to reflect on how they have changed and how that changed their feelings towards others. They just go along like "Oh yes, of course I love this person. There's no one else for me." But are they really as in love with that person as they originally were?
And as for Celaena, she's a badass assassin people - and a good person to boot. We have to trust that whoever she chooses:
1.) She does truly love them
2.) They are the best person for her
3.) They love her back equally - not less, and not more.
4.) That she will make peace and remain friends with the man whom she does not choose
We have to trust Celaena. And Sarah J Maas!
But in my opinion - books aside for a minute, just speaking from my musings - I don't think that Dorian and Celaena can forge a true relationship until they base it on something real.
What was their previous relationship based on?
Flirtation. Fear (for her life). Prejudice. Attraction. The longing for freedom.
And maybe I'm wrong - maybe there were true feelings in there - but you have to admit that Celaena and Dorian were not in madly in love with one another, nor truly in love. Maybe Dorian touched on that kind of love when he nearly lost her, nearly watched her die. But Celaena valued her freedom, and her standards (e.g. don't get involved with royals because they're horrid), over her relationship with him.
Would there be a relationship that Celaena would value over her freedom? That is the crux of the matter. She valued her relationship with Sam - she got sent to the mines, nearly killed. She knew it was dangerous when she ran off to avenge him that night, but she did so anyway. She was willing to stay with him until he was willing to leave. True, their relationship was also kind of shaky - often ruined by the rivalry between them, sometimes even jealousy on Sam's part - but Celaena was willing to make sacrifices to be with Sam.
Why wasn't she willing to make sacrifices to be with Dorian? If she truly loved him?
I think that the main reason Dorian and Celaena's relationship fails in the first book is that he loves her more than she loves him. She cares for him, yes. She is attracted to him, certainly. But Dorian cares for her more. The relationship isn't an equal one. Dorian gives, Celaena receives and sometimes reciprocates.
Which isn't her fault. She's traumatised. Burning with revenge. Holding back sorrow. An assassin. Caged within the king's castle walls. She doesn't see maintaining a relationship as a priority. She doesn't know if she wants to let anyone else in again. She doesn't know if she can trust the other person with her heart.
She is an assassin through and through. She never lets her guard down.
And I think that, overall, we can say that Sarah J Maas has presented a raw portrayal of the complexities - the highs, and the lows - of different kinds of relationships, entangled with one another.
Each of the characters is not decided on their feelings. They're uncertain. Just like us! They tend to deny their true feelings, and they allow the easiest feelings to decipher to come to the surface, leaving their deeper ones buried within them.
So if you take anything away from my mindless musings, it's that when looking at a pairing of characters, it is good to assess the balance - the motives, the personalities, the actions of the individuals in comparison with each other. Only then you can you give a definitive conclusion.
And even then, the author may surprise you with turning the whole thing on its head - forcing you to start all over again!
Love is watching someone die.Love is keeping the promise anyway.
Love is not a tender thing.
Love is letting go.
Love is the eternal flame.
Love is having the courage to remember and the strength to forget.
Love is golden.
Love is hope in the darkness.
Love is learning.
Love is finding hope where there seems to be absolutely none at all.
Love is a contradiction.
Love is staying true in the face of evil.
Love is persistence.
Love is a mistake that's worth making.
Love is until the end of time, and maybe even then.
Love is bearing an unbearable burden.
Love is the burdens which allow us to fly.
Love is fire.
Love is the echo in your ears when all is lost and plunder.
Love is the place between sleep and awake.
Love is never looking back.
Love is the face of the person who keeps you young.
Love is without limit.
Love is a glimpse of sunlight.
Love is until the very end.
Love is words unspoken.
Love is saying the words.
Well, I most certainly agree with Booknut, that Dorian cares more about Celaena and loves her more than she does him. I've never really contested that thought. It was just my desire to see that their love and affection for each other grow to be more equal, and that in the end, Dorian gets the girl. Period.
I do feel Booknut, that your comment, though a valiant attempt to remain spoiler free, is at the end of the day one that can be read through and divulge certain predictions and answers.
I want so badly to discuss my opinions of Crown of Midnight, because there are parts of Booknut's assessment in regards to Celena and her feelings for certain male characters that I do not necessarily agree with (it's not what you think). I look forward to saying more about this come after the book has been published and everyone is caught up and able to discuss.
Booknut wrote: "I won't give anything away, but the second book definitely sheds light on what it actually means to love someone. Is it simply a strong emotion? Is it actions? Is it sacrifice? Is it a little bit o..."Great analysis, that was well written! You brought up a lot of interesting points. And of lot of what you are talking about is what I love about the book. I’m glad things aren’t just glossed over like everyone is lusting after each other and nothing else matters. There’s so much going on in the story, besides their feelings, and all of those circumstances and pressures influence their relationships. I love their tangled little web. I can tell they all care deeply about each other, and whatever happens romantically…I hope they can be there for each other no matter what. I can’t wait to see how things unfold in the coming books :)
Stephanie wrote: "Well, I most certainly agree with Booknut, that Dorian cares more about Celaena and loves her more than she does him. I've never really contested that thought. It was just my desire to see that t..."
You're lucky that you've gotten to read it already, I can't wait to get a chance! Hopefully the second book will spark lots of good discussions to come :)
Hi everyone. I am one of the few FictionPress followers of Queen of Glass before it became Throne of Glass and believe me, Sara made ALOT of changes. I mean ALOT. If anyone here read the original version, you'd be agreeing with me while I say that Dorian was THE ONE for Celaena in the first rough draft version. The first version was split into three books and *spoiler* Aelin (Queen of Trasien) married Dorian (King of Adarlan. Yep. She did. But alas. Sara made a lot of changes to Chaol. I just feel bad for all the (forgive me for saying the term but) Team Dorian who didn't had the chance to see him in all his crowning glory. I am still looking forward to seeing Dorian developed in the future books. In the original version, Dorian was much like himself but along the way he got more depth. He matured. Dorian and Aelin's relationship was a heart wrenching story and I just want to give hope to all the fans who are still rooting for Dorian and Aelin. Worry not, there are still 4 books. And -wink wink- *spoiler* in the original version, when Celaena was shipped off to Wendlyn, that's where she realize that she loves Dorian and I quote her"....but you see, I already have a prince. And I love him dearly."
Yep everyone. I still remember that quote where I just cried and cried and cried for Celaena and all her broken parts. Teehee.
Sara made a lot of renditions but I think she'd stick to her original pairing :) so yey
Mod
Hi. Yes. Team Chaol. But I'm sorry, I read the first version and you could just imagine it when I read CoM and found out that Chaol had the limelight instead. I have read Queen Of Glass ever since Sara wrote it when she was a teenager and I'm not saying that she's sticking to the original pairing (seeing that Chaol and Celaena are together sigh) but there are 4 books left. And you have yet to see Dorian's side of the lime light. Chaol is sweet and loyal and I love him. I do! But Dorian, from what I remembered from him in the old version, doesn't back down from a challenge. *spoiler* in the old version Celaena had MANY suitors. Not just the two guys. I respect Team Chaol but guysss again, there are still 4 books! Sara hasn't revealed all her charming characters! That I know you will love. Namely, Raon ❤️
I really love Dorian, but in this version (I never read the old one), I really think they don't go well together at all. Sorry...?Btw to the people who have read the old version... Was there a Wendlyn prince and did we already know him? Or is he a new character?
I really love Dorian and Chaol so I don't know who I want Celaena to end up with
I think that both Dorian and Chaol would be good for Celaena, but I don't think Celaena and Dorian will end up together. I honestly cannot decide, but I'm sorta leaning towards Chaol. So team Chaol, but I could easily be switched to Team Dorian in the next book...
H99 wrote: "No is discussing, so I will. This, Celaena and Dorian, must never happen."i love your thinking! haha
I just wondered.. Aren't they somehow related to each other? I mean the dead Queen viiting Celaena and the first Havilliard king.. The dead queen did say to celana that blood ties cannot be broken
Hmmm yeah I look at it like Celaena is Fae, Elena is part Fae, so they're like the same ethnicity. But Elena is literally in Dorian's line of decent. Thinking "oh they're related. Gross." Is like looking at a family tree and saying, "oh his great great great great great great great (etc) grandmother was Spanish. So he can't marry a Spanish girl." It's just ridiculous.
I wish I could read the original Queen of Glass!!!!
I bet if you look hard enough you'll find it somewhere, and who knows maybe the original story is still on Fanfiction press
Me tooo Serena!! I can't get enough of Celeana :)
