So, anyone read any good threads lately?

[Meen]

Thanks Jess! I miss everyone, too, I just have to take a break for a while. (And I did go back and edit out my snooping finds so far.)

:)

[Jessica]

with attribution, after all I'm a librarian by trade....

AAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My brain just exploded.... Wait, that already happened. What I meant was, my soul just died.

Any progress on figuring out where her avatar picture came from? Extra points to the cubicle drone who figures out how to google-image in reverse!

[Eddie]

I did not want to get drawn back into this detective work, but... here's an interesting one:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Pinched completely from Scientific American via B&N.

Is there a possible hidden message in here for us future detectives? "it is not in fact the lies ... but their truth, if always approximate and incomplete, that (s)he wants us to admire and use". Many of her stolen reviews do contain a tiny element of truth. Is she telling us we should be focussing on that instead of all her lies?

[[deleted user]]

Jessica! Everytime a librarian plagiarizes, someone's soul drops down dead.

[Meen]

Any progress on figuring out where her avatar picture came from?

No, but DAMN there's a lot of hot librarian pics on the internet!

[Jessica]

Hi everybody,
Thanks for calling this to our attention. Otis asked me to address some of your concerns.

Before Eric contacted Otis, we at Goodreads were unaware of any widespread plagiarism in reviews, especially within the reviews of top reviewers. All Goodreads members are able to delete comments posted on their profiles or reviews, so it is most likely that Ginnie removed the lengthy discussion herself.

We will contact Ginnie and inform her that references must be cited for any quoted material in reviews.

Unfortunately, with millions of reviews on the site, this is a difficult issue to police. Let us know if you have any suggestions!

Best,
Jessica
(Goodreads Community Manager)

[[deleted user]]

Thanks for responding, Jessica.

Unfortunately, Ginnie's plagiarism is chronic and pathological... I have located the most astounding evidence of this (yet) here...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

[Eric_W]

Jessica wrote: "Hi everybody,
Thanks for calling this to our attention. Otis asked me to address some of your concerns.

Before Eric contacted Otis, we at Goodreads were unaware of any widespread plagiarism in rev..."

Thanks for the response, Jessica. (Note, I changed my moniker from Eric to Eric_W -- too many Eric's around.)

[Eric_W]

Trevor wrote: "Oh shit, this is so disheartening. I defended her on one of the reviews mentioned earlier. I have found this whole thing very disturbing.

On one of my reviews she wrote:

Trevor,
One of my ..."

Don't feel bad, Trevor, I had quite an interesting email conversation with her regarding Bull Halsey and the typhoon. She pointed me to several books I might not have known about and is responsible for numerous Amazon charges to my credit card. :)

[[deleted user]]

Jessica, under the "flag this review" link, GR could add the option to check "Plagiarism" and have the person who flagged it provide additional information, e.g. a link to the original review. While it's impractical for GR staff to police so many reviews, I would expect that chronic plagiarists would get kicked off the site, which is what happens on Flickr to users who post others' photos as their own.

[trivialchemy]

Okay I'm fairly new to the drama (I actually thought it was being unearthed today, when David started tagging reviews individually, which led me to waste about half my day at work "investigating" the 8-day-old "mystery"), but I wanted to agree with Donald that this "official response" is thoroughly insufficient.

No one asked about policing all reviews on GoodReads for plagiarism (although "M"'s suggestion there is a good one). We are talking about an individual, whom GoodReads identifies as the #2 reviewer, who has a vast and highly pathological corpus of blatant plagiarism, and who is in theory prosecutable on several hundred counts of international copyright law.

To get on here and say "aw shucks sounds real bad! we'll go talk to the ol' girl about it" is some kind of joke.

[Jessica]

Thanks for all of your concern. My response did not mean to imply that the matter is closed--we are investigating and will start removing reviews if changes are not made immediately. However, with nearly 3000 reviews in question, this is no small task. So please trust that we are not turning a blind eye. The integrity of reviews on Goodreads is very important to us!

Thank you to those who have started flagging questionable reviews. This is helpful and gives us a record to work off of.

Best,
Jessica

[Jessica]

Jessica,
I don't see why one must check each and every one of of her 3000 reviews. It seems clear that the terms of use on Goodreads have been violated. Enough reviews have turned up as plagiarized; it seems right that this person should to be asked the leave the site...

I also think M's suggestion (#168) is an excellent one.

[Eddie]

I doubt Ginnie is returning. How could she possibly excuse her way out of this imbroglio? Nobody's falling for her geriatric charms anymore. It is time to simply remove her, as she removed our 160 comments originally exposing her. Her kooky avatar still sits near the top of the "best reviewer" list and is not deserving of being there any longer.

[[deleted user]]

Here is an idea for dealing with plagiarists taking into account that, for some reason, a lot of people tend to like things in 3s:

First instance of plagiarism found by or reported to GR - admins (1) send a private message to the user and (2) delete the review.

Second instance - GR admins (1) send a similar but stronger message letting the user know that the account will be deleted if there is another instance of plagiarism and (2) delete the review.

Third instance - yer out!

If it's too much work for GR admins, maybe ask for volunteers from the GR librarians and set up a private group to help manage the process.

Maria

[Jessica]

Excellent suggestion M.
I second this as suggested GR policy.

[Eddie]

Good idea, M. I also think the "plagiarism" button is a good idea, with an attachment that allows the flagger to include the actual evidence so that it's easier for the GR staff to work with it.

Also a purple "P" should be emblazoned on their nose.

[David]

Over on this review:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

most of it has been plagiarized from the "Publishers Weekly" comments in the product description at the Canadian Amazon site.
http://www.amazon.ca/Aristotles-Child....

In other news, this review:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
is lifted verbatim from the Powell's site -
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.amazon.com/Silence-Why-We-...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.soundbooks.com.au/catalogu...
(page 8 in the pdf file)

[Meen]

Jeezus.

[Jessica]

that's exactly what I said moments ago on a GJ thread one of the David sleuths had unearthed!

[[deleted user]]

My own plagiarism finds over the past couple of days (compiled for your convenience):

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.amazon.com/Herodotus-Histo...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/c...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2008/0...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.speroforum.com/book/review...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Believe-At...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.publishersweekly.com/artic...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/boo...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/bo...

[Jessica]

all hail the Davids!

[Jessica]

(sometimes I think I was meant to be a cheerleader)

[Joshua Nomen-Mutatio]

Donald wrote: "I guess she would've had to read the books then..."

Exactly.

[[deleted user]]

It seems it may be more valuable to try and find any reviews she wrote that were not plagiarized. It may be a more helpful piece of information for GR Jessica to know they are difficult to find among the 3000 mentioned.

[[deleted user]]

I think my favorite of "her" reviews would have to be the one for The Little Book of Plagiarism . Part of me wants to fave it.

[trivialchemy]

The few I found yesterday:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
which is a concatenation of
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
and
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
stolen from Chris Bolton
http://www.powells.com/review/2008_04...

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
stolen from Shannon Brownlee
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...

And my friend Jarratt tagged
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
from
http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazi...
which, incidentally, is a very strange example. She's actually taken sentence fragments from a later book and rearranged them to form a review of an earlier book by the same author. Seriously bizarre. It must have taken nearly as much work to do this as it would have taken to write a 4-sentence made-up review.

[Joshua Nomen-Mutatio]

M wrote: "I think my favorite of "her" reviews would have to be the one for The Little Book of Plagiarism. Part of me wants to fave it."

That one is still the most outrageous to me as well.

[trivialchemy]

GJ just disappeared from top reviewers! I literally saw it go down, because I've never looked at all the lists of "top profiles" and such (who knew?) and I was clicking back and forth in there. Ol' Ginnie was sittin pretty in #2 one minute and gone the next.

[trivialchemy]

Wow just kidding. when I clicked back I was looking at the list for "this week," not "all time." I'm extremely stupid.

[[deleted user]]

I can't believe Laura Stamps is beating me on that all-time reviews list.

[[deleted user]]

Montambeau, you need to mention dangly parts, slit-up-the-front teddies, and intravaginal uses of Frosties if you wanna beat Laura Stamps.

[[deleted user]]

I'll meditate on that.

[Jessica]

who IS laura stamps? must check on that--

[Trevor]

I am still coming across reviews by Ginnie that are clearly stolen from elsewhere. I also note she is still 2nd best reviewer. I'm thinking of doing whatever I can to make her the best reviewer on goodreads, by clicking on all of her reviews. Together we can get her over the line!

[Jessica]

ha, Trevor!

[David]

I think there is something very sad about seeing Ginnie's name there in the #2 spot, now that she has eliminated all her friends. That "0 friends" is very poignant.

But what I really would like to understand in the whole popularity sweepstakes is, WHO IS CALVIN DOTY and why does he get more profile views than the president? There must be some kind of subtle internet concept art game behind it.

I was amazed to find that there are reviewers on the top 10 list with whom I have, respectively, 3, 8, and 0 books in common. With over 2000 books apiece, you'd hardly think it would be possible.

[Jessica]

>>>>But what I really would like to understand in the whole popularity sweepstakes is, WHO IS CALVIN DOTY and why does he get more profile views than the president? There must be some kind of subtle internet concept art game behind it.


this is a huge mystery for many of us...have no idea what the hell is going on with THAT. Have wondered for some time...

[Joshua Nomen-Mutatio]

The pathology grows stranger by the day. She's obviously rather attached to her plagiarized reviews seeing as how all them are still there. Well, who could just toss away such a body of willful deceit--um, I mean collection of painstaking high art--like that? I mean, there's thousands of minutes of cutting and pasting, blood, sweat and tears invested in all that gives her 2nd place status on the GR reviewers totem pole. Good lord, how stupid this all is.

[[deleted user]]

If her account is going to stay on GR, I wish there was a way to "mute" the reviews and discount them from the average ratings. Her top rankings as a reviewer are beyond ridiculous at this point.

[Jessica]

Heh heh.... Mike!

Anyone want some cheese with that?

[Kristine]

I noticed she defriended everyone and had to investigate.

Dang that's disappointing. I did kind of wonder where she found the time to read and review all those books.

[David]

Ginnie no longer appears to be on the site. All the messages I had received from her have disappeared from my inbox, and she no longer shows up on the "Top Reviewer" list.

A sad and puzzling business.

[Jessica]

After reviewing the situation, we decided to remove Ginnie's account, and she was amenable to that decision.

Thanks for alerting us, and thanks to everyone who helped investigate.

[Jessica]

Damn. I'd put off going back to look at my old personal emails with Ginnie because it freaked me out and confused me, but now it's too late, and I wish I had.

A sad and puzzling business.

Well put.

'Nuff said....

[shellyindallas]

Wow. It's over. We have closure: Ginnie is gone. Now what? Guess I can go back to staring at the couple tonguing each other in the banner ad for Paris, Las Vegas on the right side of my screen. Apparently everything's sexier there. Even Ginnie Jones?

I dunno. I wish we would've heard more from the horse's mouth. Isn't that always how it is? I feel like we're the Senate and Ginnie is the CEO of Bank of America. We dress her down for being a phony and not doing the right thing, she remains silent and moves on to the same thing elsewhere. Sigh. She better be flying coach!

[trivialchemy]

I partially agree with Shelly.

I'm also somehow a bit sadder than I thought I would be.

[Paul]

Good morning all - I am that goodreadin fool who has been living under a rock for the last fortnight, & had no idea of the Scandal That Was Ginnie until this last half hour, and I've now caught up. How curious a world we have made for ourselves. But I thought I would chuck a very favourite plariarist into the mix. As you probably know, I revere Bob Dylan as a living god, but back in the 1980s some fans grokked that he was appropriating lines of dialogue from movies in some songs. Then later he read a novel called Confessions of a Yakuza and used some of that. Examples:

Dylan:
“Well, I have had some rotten nights,
Didn’t think that they would pass.”
- “Seeing the Real You At Last” (1985)
Source:
“I’ll have some rotten nights after I’ve sent you over - but that’ll pass.”
- Humphey Bogart, The Maltese Falcon

Dylan:
“When I met you, baby,
You didn’t show no visible scars,
You could ride like Annie Oakley,
You could shoot like Belle Starr.”
- “Sweetheart Like You” (1985)
Source:
“I’m looking for a woman who can ride like Annie Oakley and shoot like Belle Starr.”
- Clint Eastwood, Bronco Billy

Dylan:
Lot of water under the bridge, Lot of other stuff too
Don’t get up gentlemen, I’m only passing through
“Things Have Changed (1999)
Source:
“Don’t get up, I’m only passing through”
- Vivien Leigh, A Streetcar Named Desire

Dylan:
“My old man, he’s like some feudal lord.
- “Floater” (2001)
Source:
“My old man would sit there like a feudal lord”
- Confessions Of A Yakuza

and various others here

http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/pla...

Strange but true. I would also point out Jorge Luis Borges' meditation on the subject in the form of one of his mind-dismantling short stories, called Pierre menard, Author of the Quixote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_M...

[Joshua Nomen-Mutatio]

Some of those seem a little coincidental. The first one doesn't strike me as plagiarism at all. "Having a rotten night" is a pretty ubiquitous expression. Some of them though (especially from the book you said he was reading) do seem like they were lifted purposely.

In any case, I remember hearing a rather interesting segment on NPR years ago about accidental plagiarism. I'm trying to find info on it right now, so far my Google search has turned up an author named Thomas Mallon who was on NPR discussing his book Stolen Words...I don't think that was it...

Ah, yes! There's the term I was looking for:

Cryptomnesia

And I found the NPR segment I'd heard years ago, it wasn't the above mentioned interview with Thomas Mallon but NPR's On The Media with a discussion of this (follow the link below to hear the segment):

"In 1916, an 18 page short story titled Lolita about an older man obsessed with a young girl, was published in a German short story collection. The author was Heinz Von Litchberg. In 1958, Vladimir Nabokov's 300-page novel Lolita, also about an older man obsessed with a young girl, was published in the United States. Was Nabokov a plagiarist, or as New York Observer columnist Ron Rosenbaum posed in a recent column, did Nabokov suffer from cryptomnesia?"

[Jessica]

fascinating...thanks for posting this.