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My mind is not entirely made up about the reliability of the narrator in Wolf Hall. I'm suspicious, though.

Susanna wrote: "My mind is not entirely made up about the reliability of the narrator in Wolf Hall. I'm suspicious, though."

Have noticed you say this before. I haven't, and probably will not, read this Mantel because of a horrid brush (hee! look at the cover) with her Beyond Black. Not noticed anyone else take up the dodgy narrator argument on Wolf Hall but I keep watching.

Bettie wrote: "Susanna wrote: "My mind is not entirely made up about the reliability of the narrator in Wolf Hall. I'm suspicious, though."

Have noticed you say this before. I haven't, and probably will not, ..."

The Narrator is clear and direct ....especially about what S/he doesn't know. Cromwell, the Protagonist, improvises throughout and makes a living of uncertainty.

Yup.

Some writers (Nabokov and Borges, for instance) should have their complete works included in this list.

This is a very strange concept for me that I never heard until I got on goodreads. If you can't believe the narrator who can you believe?

I guess I understand it better when I think of the Tell-Tale Heart. I guess this list will help me.

Will in the World: How Shakespeare Became Shakespeare

This book is listed twice.

Lady Alice wrote: "This is a very strange concept for me that I never heard until I got on goodreads. If you can believe the narrator who can you believe?

I guess I understand it better when I think of the Tell..."

Dear Lady Alice, Trust me, this whole list is bolluxed: very few of these books have an "unreliable" narrator. The concept itself was taken apart and reshaped by Wayne Booth in his monumental, The Rhetoric of Fiction. The Old School you and I grew up in (I assumed) spoke of three kinds of narrators--way misleading, and Booth asks in addition, "Unreliable HOW ?" Unreliable is his reporting of the facts, his perception of reality, his moral fiber ? ANYtime you have a human first-person Narrator, he/she is bound to be "unreliable" in many ways...... or not human in the first place. Finally, people posting on this list have often mistaken the Narrator for the Central Consciousness and/or the Protagonist. And finally finally, some of these works posted seem to be books with main characters the reader just doesn't like.

Thanks for this explanation Thom. Yes, I graduated high school in 1967 and college in 1973 so I never heard of this stuff. I agree each person has a different perception of reality and the story is made from their view. This whole idea has been quite baffling for me.

Alice

Lady Alice wrote: "Thanks for this explanation Thom. Yes, I graduated high school in 1967 and college in 1973 so I never heard of this stuff. I agree each person has a different perception of reality and the story i..."

Hi, Lady Alice. I don't know if the whole list is bolluxed, like Thom said, but I think some examples of famous unreliable narrator stories may help you to understand the concept.

Invisible Cities
Marco Polo is not the narrator of the whole book, but he tells Kublai Khan about fantastic cities he allegedly visited. He may be just lying to amaze the emperor, so he is unreliable.

Lolita
The 1st person narrator is in prison, writing his story to the jury and trying to justify his fixation for young girls, so he is unreliable.

Dom Casmurro
In Brazil, this book is known as "the novel of doubt". The 1st person narrator tells the story of the love affair between his wife and his best friend, but he may be seen things out of jealousy.

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest
The narrator suffers from Schizophrenia, and parts of the book are clearly hallucinations, like when he sees people shrinking. Many books have narrators who suffer from some mental disorder and can't be trusted.

Unreliable narrators are usually first-person narrators, but third-person narrators can also be unreliable. You will find many in Borges' work.
I also agree with Thom about how anytime you have a first person narrator he/she is bound to be unreliable, but I think we're just trying to list books in which the author deliberately uses the unreliable narrator as a narrative device.

Julia wrote: "Lady Alice wrote: "Thanks for this explanation Thom. Yes, I graduated high school in 1967 and college in 1973 so I never heard of this stuff. I agree each person has a different perception of rea..."

I want to restrict the term to the form which is ABOUT the narrator/speaker's unreliability, as in Browning's dramatic monologues, e.g. "My Last Duchess". Here you have a scoundrel who indites himself with every word but who thinks he's hot stuff. Then there are also Ring Lardner's short stories, hopelessly dated but good examples of the form.

Thanks again for these explanations.

Alice

Frankly, I cannot imagine how Will in the World: How Shakespeare Became Shakespeare got on this list. It's not even a novel!

Susanna wrote: "Frankly, I cannot imagine how Will in the World: How Shakespeare Became Shakespeare got on this list. It's not even a novel!"

I was very puzzled by that also. Thanks for removing them.

Zack wrote: "Wouldn't any narrator be unreliable because all humans are biased?"

Good point.

Zack wrote: "Wouldn't any narrator be unreliable because all humans are biased?"

Of course. However, the term has a fairly specific definition:

"An unreliable narrator is a narrator, whether in literature, film, or theatre, whose credibility has been seriously compromised. The term was coined in 1961 by Wayne C. Booth in The Rhetoric of Fiction...."

"Unreliable narrator, a narrator whose account of events appears to be faulty, misleadingly biased, or otherwise distorted, so that it departs from the ‘true’ understanding of events shared between the reader and the implied author. The discrepancy between the unreliable narrator's view of events and the view that readers suspect to be more accurate creates a sense of irony."

"The opposite of a reliable narrator, an unreliable narrator typically displays characteristics or tendencies that indicate a lack of credibility or understanding of the story. Whether due to age, mental disability or personal involvement, an unreliable narrator provides the reader with either incomplete or inaccurate information as a result of these conditions."

I don't think there's any narrator more unreliable than the child in Room. He thinks the world consists of nothing more than the confines of his little room, he, his Ma and "Old Nick."

Julia wrote: "Some writers (Nabokov and Borges, for instance) should have their complete works included in this list."

yup

To be clear: the list is only intended to contain fiction, right? Winter in Majorca is nonfiction and there are probably others.

I personally (sometimes) enjoy an unreliable narrator such as in Never Let Me Go, Gatsby, and Fight Club. But that's just me.

I wonder how Crime and Punishment got here? It's not a first-person narrator book, it's in third person. Or do we perhaps see the author (Dostoyevsky) as unreliable? Hm
UPD Well, actually many books in this list don't actually belong here, basically because many people confuse Narrator and Protagonist, as is already mentioned somewhere in the comments here.

Inna wrote: "I wonder how Crime and Punishment got here? It's not a first-person narrator book, it's in third person. Or do we perhaps see the author (Dostoyevsky) as unreliable? Hm
UPD Well, actually many book..."

I came here to say the same thing.

I thought for sure I'd have to add "Pale Fire," but there it was at #30. Restores my faith in Goodreaders.