Comments on Most Interesting Magic System - page 4

Dave wrote: "How can any list of books dealing in any fashion with magic be considered complete without reference to Jim Butcher's "Dresden Files" series? Harry is a wizard and his employment of his magical ski..."

The Dresden files are on the list

This list frusterates me the top books are just popular books.

Top magic system:
Ar Tonelico(video game): Magic is done by singing in a fantasy langauge that is based off english+sanskrit+RF engineering+programming with a heavy focus on emotion.
Not much makes the engineer in me squee more then a decoding formula that is needed in order to decode the single line which is actually 2 lines in order to increase the power of the song. And I'm pretty sure any language nut would love the way a single verb can also contain multiple emotions that may be targeted towards different targets.
Seriously look at this http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Hymmnos

Interesting Magic System:
Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei(The Irregular at Magic High): Poorly written series with pretty bland characters but a fairly interesting magic system takes place ~100 years in the future after we recently discovered magic and it shows how it has completely changed the geopolitical landscape and magic isn't like Harry Potter/LOTR magic hell no it's pretty much the new military power by making nuclear weapons look like little baby toys and they use super computers in various forms in order to help them do complicated calcluations. Most devices can only perform a few functions each due to limitations and they have limited adjustabilty. It's really nice to see magic+modern engineering.


A few other magic systems I see that people like:
Brandon Sanderson does a very solid limited magic system. Where it's almost closer to superpowers rather then magic where you give someone a one or a few very specific abilities, then you let the creativity of how the character uses them be the driving force rather then the magic system as a whole. I feel like Garth Nix is another author that does this kind of stuff well.

In the more traditional fantasy I can't really nail down anyone who does this super well I can name really good authors who have good books of this type but none of the magic building stands out. Urban fantasy magic/Fae magic/insert whatever standard magic you want a good number of very good stories just take a classic magic system and just adapt it to their own use with a couple of twists here and there a ton of authors do this well but it's also never going to blow me away on the system.

Then there is the H.P. lovecraftian magic which the goal is to be as bizzare and surreal as possible where magic isn't really supposed to make normal sense. I think China Mieville is really the only author I like doing this now.

Aaron wrote: "This list frusterates me the top books are just popular books.
[...]


"The Irregular at Magic High" sounds like a really interesting premise. Too bad it's poorly written as you say. Time for someone to make a widely successful YA book series out of this so people can whine about how they only ripped off Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei.

Christian wrote: "Aaron wrote: "This list frusterates me the top books are just popular books.
[...]


"The Irregular at Magic High" sounds like a really interesting premise. Too bad it's poorly written as you say. ..."

It does other things really well too...if you can just bear though the crap. It's a pretty quick read and if you read YA/LN a decent bit and it sounds interesting it's probably worth a quick read.

I would love for someone to rip off Mahouka, however I reserve my right to whine.

Aaron wrote: I would love for someone to rip off Mahouka, however I reserve my right to whine.

*lol* Well said ;) You convinced me, though, I will check it out.

Edit: Iiiif I can find it that is :/

Amir wrote: "Of course Harry Potter's magic system is the most interesting. How do you cast a spell? you wave a wand and say a single word and that's it! So intriguing! so mysterious! so complicated and origina..."

Haha. Don't forget "twist and flick!"

Wow, this list is too biased. Popular books with mediocre magic systems are beating less popular books with incredibly magic systems. Case and point the Night Angel trilogy and the Farseer trilogy are below Harry f'ing Potter. I like harry potter and all but the magic system over there is the most childish one I've ever seen.

Most of the lists are like this at least Sanderson pulled out a strong showing on all fronts.

Aaron wrote: "Most of the lists are like this at least Sanderson pulled out a strong showing on all fronts."

Of course Sanderson did. When I first chanced upon this list, Harry effin' Potter was on the top, followed by Mistborn, and I was totally outraged. Did my best stirring up this discussion. And we, all of us, pushed the most deserving Mistborn to the top! Hell yeah!

Good to see Kingkiller beat H frickin' P and get to second place... :D

Aaron wrote: "Dave wrote: "How can any list of books dealing in any fashion with magic be considered complete without reference to Jim Butcher's "Dresden Files" series? Harry is a wizard and his employment of hi..."

Heck, Harry Dresden is a much better wizard than Harry frickin' Potter!
And FYI, The Dresden Files is on the list...

Re: Books by Robert Stanek:

Don't believe the hype. This book has not been recommended as claimed in the blurb. It is not a best seller. It has not won awards. It is amateur garbage that has been slickly marketed. It also is not appropriate for children.

In addition the narrator on the version sold through Audible is horrendous.

Do your due diligence before purchasing this one.

http://conjugalfelicity.com/robert-st...

My advice: Don't waste any money or any time on this one. There is no one who would honestly and truthfully believe this trash is a great story.

There are however critiques of it on the web that are pretty entertaining. Find one of those instead if you really want to know what this book is all about.

I recommend this one: http://conjugalfelicity.com/keeper-ma...

Is there any point in putting all the books from a single series?

Bobby wrote: "What does everyone think of The Dark Tower series?"

It's funny, the word 'magic' never really came to mind while I was reading the series. It has a very unique world to be sure, with a bit of everything from Western to horror to supernatural to sci-fi, with a bit of Tolkien for good measure. But I don't recall any fixed magical system that the characters regularly called upon.

Wow, Mistborn is at the top. I'm still reading it. Pretty curious now to see what the magic system is like.

Nonetheless: FULL METAL ALCHEMIST. Always my first choice. One of the few magic systems that actually makes perfect sense in the laws of the real world, and simple enough to understand.

Postscript: Inkheart was definitely interesting as well.

Amir wrote: "Of course Harry Potter's magic system is the most interesting. How do you cast a spell? you wave a wand and say a single word and that's it! So intriguing! so mysterious! so complicated and origina..."

I voted for it because of how enjoyable the system is - different types for study, the school and importance of it, the wands (sure), but also the potions, spells. It's just fun. Doesn't need to be brain science - look to this list, after all.

This list is a mess though. Too many sequels. For obvious reasons, it's almost always the case to have the first book of the series only.

Bobby wrote: "What does everyone think of The Dark Tower series? The magic, albeit not used in the traditional sense like a harry potter or mistborn, is certainly present and is DEFINITELY unique. At least in m..."

I forgot about that - you're right that it's unique. Not sure how much it qualifies.

Erin (*is in a reviewing slump*) wrote: "I voted for it because of how enjoyable the system is - different types for study, the school and importance of it, the wands (sure), but also the potions..."

Sure Harry potter is a great system but it is not well defined, multiple times through the series it breaks Sandersons first law

Sanderson’s First Law of Magics: An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.

Which by my opinion is a great way to look at a magic system, it helps the plot yes but the system keeps breaking itself.

I'm really surprised everyone is shitting on Harry Potter for being on this list and no one even mentions the LOTR being here too. Is there any explanation to magic in that series besides "it exists,wizards can do it?"

I see that as a problem too (Didn't really see it before now)
I think one of the biggest arguments to why it should be here is that it was original when it was made.
But really the magic system is a very basic fantasy and as a huge amount of authors have used similar systems making the LOTR magic system kind of normal seen.

My biggest problem with the Harry potter system is the height of the placement (I think it was place on a 3rd place or something like that) Where it obviously doesn't fit.

398 books in and no Jack Vance? Really? Yeah, it's a bit hackneyed now, but if one is going to have the AD&D Player's handbook, Feist's Riftwar books, and The Malazan Book of the Fallen, then recognize where they start: Jack Vance, "The Dying Earth". Granted, Feist changed the system pretty quickly, and Erickson and Esselmont took the starting point from D&D and built one of the most interesting magical systems out there.

Seriously, if you know D&D, and you read "The Dying Earth" you realize that Gygax and Greenwood were outright bandits. They lifted the magic system wholesale, right down to spell names and magical items (and then made it their own by adding a buttload to it.)

Also, "Most Unique" makes no sense. "Unique" means there is One of something. That's not something that can be intensified. You can't be "Very One Of A Kind". No unique thing is more or less unique than any other unique thing.

/ pet peeve, that.

Harry Potter has lots of magic and very little system

Nathaniel wrote: "Harry Potter has lots of magic and very little system"

Ever so this.

I'm surprised xxxholic isn't higher, it uses a fairly intriguing magic system based on fair trade. For example if I wanted eternal life I would need to give something equal to eternal life in exchange for it.

The Lady Inquisitor wrote: "I'm really surprised everyone is shitting on Harry Potter for being on this list and no one even mentions the LOTR being here too. Is there any explanation to magic in that series besides "it exist..."

In order to get the magic system, such as it is in LOTR, one has to do a close read of the Silmarillion, specifically, the Valaquenta. Turns out to be a clerical system, with certain craft based magics, based on manipulating emanations of divine artifacts (e.g. the Trees). I can't think of a primary magic user that isn't, in fact, a divine or semi-divine being (Valar or Maiar.)

Is that interesting? Don't really know, but it was fresh at the time.

Please, just drop harry potter. A magic system in which users can teleport forever and use this in fights indefinitely is stupid.

6000j wrote: "Please, just drop harry potter. A magic system in which users can teleport forever and use this in fights indefinitely is stupid."

I refer you to the fugue battle in "Creatures of Light and Darkness" for an example of this being made smart. I don't necessarily otherwise disagree with you, but, in order for your criticism to be truly valid, you'll need to deal with a better written example of that situation.

/ And, no, I don't think the Potter books are poorly written, just
that your point shows a place where they could have been better.

JT wrote: "6000j wrote: "Please, just drop harry potter. A magic system in which users can teleport forever and use this in fights indefinitely is stupid."

I refer you to the fugue battle in "Creatures of Li..."
I haven't read that book.

My other problem with harry potter is that the magic system encourages people to spam as many spells as they can, with no drawback. you dodged it? Ok, i'll just cast another one.

6000j wrote: "JT wrote: "6000j wrote: "Please, just drop harry potter. A magic system in which users can teleport forever and use this in fights indefinitely is stupid."

I refer you to the fugue battle in "Crea..."

You're right about spell spamming, but the other way to look at that is that it requires quickness over strength. The right spell, right off the bat, and the battle's over. Snape was particularly good at that, as I recall.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's an ideal magical system by any means, but I do think it serves the narrative, which is really all it's there for.

JT wrote: "6000j wrote: "JT wrote: "6000j wrote: "Please, just drop harry potter. A magic system in which users can teleport forever and use this in fights indefinitely is stupid."

I refer you to the fugue b..."

I do agree that the magic system was right for the books, but the problem is that getting the right spelling first time will often take longer than just spamming every offensive spell ever.

I take back my earlier statement that it should not be on the list, I just don't believe that it should that high on the list.

6000j wrote: "... I just don't believe that it should that high on the list. "

That's almost certainly correct.

The fantasy genre historically goes beyond a system of magic to include insight into spirituality and meaning. Rowling's world becomes increasingly complex and nuanced so that by the seventh book she is exploring issues such as grief, loss, anger, family, choices, the consequences of choosing immortality as a weapon, whether love is more powerful than death, the spiritual implications of sacrificing the soul for power vs. sacrificing life for death, the history of powerful wizards and their struggle for love, power and an understanding of right and wrong and its long-term impact on their magical power and the magical world--these are subtle and more powerful forms of magic than spells.

Ian wrote: "It is exceedingly difficult for me to pick any one magical system as the most unique. The best magical systems are those that are integrated fluidly, consistently and, as ridiculous as it might sou..."

Excellent points.

mercury wrote: "This list is FAILing it's job of rating books on interesting-ness of the magic system.

It's successfully rating books on popularity with readers, by which books they've actually read and are fami..."

Agree!

Emily wrote: "mercury wrote: "This list is FAILing it's job of rating books on interesting-ness of the magic system.

It's successfully rating books on popularity with readers, by which books they've actually r..."

That's how these things work. You give everyone a right to vote, some people are going to vote from the heart instead of the head. (And sometimes they use the spleen instead). And we'll just leave that there.

The way to do this is a Curated list. Someone start a list and requests to add go to that person. Now, who that person ought to be? There's the rub.

As the originator of the list it used to really bother me that only popular books were making it to the top, and I can't kick them off. I have gotten over it though because at least all of our favorites are represented here. A person who is truly interested can dig through the list and find some amazing gems.

p.s. You know what my real favorite is magic system is? The Ethshar Series starting with The Misenchanted Sword by Lawrence Watt Evans.

Harry Potter, seriously? The magic system is perhaps the series weakest point. The *most* powerful killing spell in the world is literally 6 syllables and seemingly has zero ability to counter it. Why wouldn't you just use that all the time? Hell I'd be casting Avada Kedavra on the flies in my house.

Magic as cast by humans seems largely dependent on an external locus, aka their wands which is of course their weak point, expelliarmus is constantly used to disarm one's opponent. You'd think that a wizard would have cottoned onto this fact and carried the magical equivalent of a "concealed weapon", I'd have an entire bandolier stocked with wands. Or I don't know, get a Wii wrist strap for your wand.

A rich magic system is described in Lev Grossman's The Magicians which I highly recommend.

Harry Potter's magic system has all the complexity of a Steve Miller song.

The problem with this list a a common problem of any kind of voting system. Take Reddit.com, the posts that appeal to the widest group of people will rise to the top, so it will be pretty good suggestions, but also very generic.

In the case of this list the problem is the most popular series rise to the top regardless of the interestingness of their magic systems.

A potential solution can really be done on this site but you could weight each book inversely to its popularity. the would be a multiplier number. If you could get stats on how popular each book is somewhere (maybe the number of lists it appears in on this site) you could normalize that number on a scale from say one to ten(inverted). then you have automatically multiply that number by the number of each votes.

So a book like harry potter is widely popular and very well known and im sure it appears in a huge number of lists on this site. so inverted, harry porter would be multiplied by 1, or perhaps lower than one. Meanwhile some very obscure book is on the list and has quite a few upvotes. This is very likely to be because it fits the list description extremely well, so the number of votes is mulitplied by nearly ten

I pulled the multiplication numbers out of nowhere, but the concept is the important thing. basically you want to put books like harry potter and twilight on equal ground as the small less known books. no one needs to be recommended Harry potter on this site at this point in time. 99.999% of viewers of this site have come across the series in some fashion already, before ever having come to this site.

I only just came across this list and I'd like to add my two-pennyworth even though it looks largely defunct. The problem with a catgory like 'the best magic system' is that it people read it as 'the best magic books' and vote accordingly. 'the best magic system is necessarily a niche market. Let's face it people don't usually want to know how magic works... knowing how it works gets in the way of the story. I should know; I write magical fantasy and I've spent many hours worrying over the mathematics and basic science of my magical system only to be told by my readers that it's the adventure and complexity of the story that they find most rewarding.
Personally, having been a fan of science fiction and fantasy for sixty years, I have to agree with them. The magical stories that I've found the most memorable are the ones that appeal to the heart rather than the mind; Piers Anthony's 'incarnations of immortality' are dated but still appeal on an emotional level.
You won't find any of my books on this list so I don't have any axe to grind, I love all sorts of books and, as they say, "you pays yer money and takes yer chance."

Xenophon wrote: "I think Harry Potter doing so well is a function of reader inexperience and the popularity of the series. To those of us who have been reading fantasy for years, Harry Potter is fun but nothing tha..."
couldn't agree more

A non-fiction organic chemistry text (1121)?! Really?

Lord of Mysteries should be among the best magic systems,

lord of mysteries should be there

9 duplicates found and removed

Brandon Sanderson very much earned his spot on this list. His magic systems are one of the reasons I love his books so much, and couldn't get into Lord of the Rings.

Eric wrote: "I don't think Harry Potter belongs on this list because the magic system in that world is not rigidly defined. Basically anything can happen at any time, there's no limitations on the powers of the..."
I agree so much....