ReemK10 (Paper Pills)’s Comments (group member since Dec 26, 2012)

ReemK10 (Paper Pills)’s comments from the The Year of Reading Proust group.

"For one thing this Don Quixote had tilted against so many windmills..."(MKE 72) What does this expression mean?

As Kalliope is not here. I will do the honors:

The famous Hubert Robert Fountain (MKE 75): either it's this:

http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/...

or maybe it's this:

http://www.jimandellen.org/HubertRobe...

Jocelyne wrote: "Yesterday afternoon, I stopped by my husband's office, which I have done countless times. Although I was always vaguely aware of what he had on his walls, something jumped to my eyes this time: a p..."


LOL Jocelyne, isn't that funny, sort of like Baader-Meinhof phenomenon when you notice something and suddenly start seeing it everywhere. I would suddenly start noticing something and think it had to be a sign. lol Either that or you've always given your husband your undivided attention and failed to see the print in his office before. But you are right, we are beginning to see differently.I wonder how much pink and gold are you suddenly noticing?

Eugene wrote: "ReemK10 wrote: I think its a reference to the facts that Socrates was a homosexual & Jesus was a Jew.

That's true..."

Jack actually said this. Reading your explanations, I went back to reread this section. The words recall and claim stand out this time. There is no definitive proof. They are arguable. More importantly he goes on to say, and maybe I should have extended my quote earlier, "without reflecting that there were no abnormal people when homosexuality was the norm, no anti-Christians before Christ..." I think Proust was trying to get the reader to question the logic behind the definition and reference of the category "they are a race". I think this part is significant when he says " those who remained obdurate to every warning, to every example, to every punishment, by virute of an innate disposition so peculiar that it is more repugnant to other men (even though it may be accompanied by high moral qualities) than certain other vices which exclude those qualities such as theft, cruelty,breach of faith, vices better understood and more readily excused by the generality of men." (MKE22-23)

Proust wants us to question our premises.

I feel that there are going to be sections in this volume that may touch upon topics that may be very sensitive to some, and because I was the one involved in the last misunderstanding, I think I should be the one to bring this up. We have to agree that we are reading for understanding, and that to do so we may need to venture into what may be hurtful territory. I've been called the canary in the coal mine. I don't mind going into the mine and bringing up these topics. I certainly don't want to hurt anyone. Let's not be afraid of trying to have an open discussion.

On page 18 (MKE) it says: " Each man's vice ( we use the term for linguistic convenience) accompanies him after the manner of the tutelary spirit who was invisible to men as long as they were unaware of his presence." Who added the parenthesis part? Proust or Moncrieff et al? I wonder is this different in other editions? What does it say in French?

Then there was a reference that I didn't understand : "Sons of the Indre"(page 25). Indre is a region in France, but what is its significance?

Also ... "cases of inversion in history, taking pleasure in recalling that Socrates was one of themselves as the Jews claim that Jesus was one of them."( page 22). I didn't understand this. Was it a reference to Socratic inversion :"If something is not a bat, then it is not a mammal."
Can someone please explain this part to me.

Kalliope wrote: "Aloha wrote: "Regarding the Duchess of Alba, she does look like she enjoys life when you Google photographs of her She seems to enjoy life more now than ever, with her younger man hubby. Here's a..."

Glad you're still in touch Kalliope! I hope that you are having fun!! The good thing about this Duchess is that she feels beautiful! She looks in her mirror and doesn't see what we see. They should bottle that sense of confidence!

Kalliope, you better put on 5 pounds in France! Enjoy the patisserie!

No mention of the master revisionist Marcel Proust:

"Then something changed. In a new book, “The Work of Revision,” Hannah Sullivan, an English professor at Oxford University, argues that revision as we now understand it—where authors, before they publish anything, will spend weeks tearing it down and putting it back together again—is a creation of the 20th century. It was only under Modernist luminaries like Ezra Pound, T.S. Eliot, and Virginia Woolf that the practice came to seem truly essential to creating good literature. Those authors, Sullivan writes, were the first who “revised overtly, passionately, and at many points in the lifespan of their texts.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013...

It's late. 2:30 in the morning. Very quickly, here my thoughts on reading The Guermantes Way:

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Good night.

Eugene wrote: "ReemK10 wrote: Isn't there also a bravo to Moncrieff, Kilmartin and Enright?

While on April 4th ReemK10 wrote in message 44. Eugene wrote: Note two weeks ago Reem complained that she had difficult..."

Eugene, you are so right!! I truly had a hard time switching from Davis to MKE at the start of Within a Budding Grove. The Guermantes Way however has been very easy for me to read even though there are those that say that this is the more difficult book. Like Fionnuala said, the subject matter keeps us focused... " we are forced to pay close attention to the subject. " I regret that my high school French is too weak for me to even consider reading Proust in French, but that said I have always enjoyed reading books in translation and believe that the translator's work can only serve to enhance the text, my joy in them being so great. Yes, bravo to MKE. Thanks Eugene for making me aware of this.

Marcus wrote: "ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "Historygirl wrote: "Doesn't the incident of the red shoes reveal so much about the shallowness of high society rituals? Years ago this passage was pointed out to me by..."

Silly me, you mean La Chartreuse. I thought you were referring to the color of her dress.

Marcus wrote: The Red and The Black", which, at a psychological level, refers to thinking and feeling (I believe, though I haven't read it yet...but I loved the Chartreuse).

I thought chartreuse was green.

Oh and I thought the huge envelope with the folded corner was laugh out loud funny! LOL

Historygirl wrote: "Doesn't the incident of the red shoes reveal so much about the shallowness of high society rituals? Years ago this passage was pointed out to me by a noted sociologist as one of the greatest condem..."

This last scene is one that we are not likely to ever forget. Beautifully written. The metaphorical parallels to what was happening in France at the time makes this scene so poignant. This volume ends demanding a five-star rating based on that scene alone!

The red dress, the red shoes, the color of France's wine, of the people's blood!

Don't delete them. There needs to be some light entertainment in the lounge. Consider Duchess of Alba as a reference to our own Duchesse de Guermantes.

Jocelyne wrote: "I am doing my best!"

You're doing an amazing job! I love this photo of yours. You're a class act Jocelyne!Is your hair still this long?

Kalliope wrote: "ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "Most specifically an explanation about the hats:"

Wonderful analysis on the significance of the hats, Reem...

I noticed that after the discussion we had on the hats..."

I knew you'd like it. :) I even thought this Elyse may be part of our group as she has only gotten as far as GW. If you click her name, it shows a review for Swann's Way and In the Shadow of Young Girls in Flower. Then I see a copyright for 2010. We need to get her to continue reading along with us, and to join in the conversation with the next volumes.

Oh my god, I've seen this woman before. I didn't realize that she was a duchess. How sad!! The one in front of the Goya painting is not bad. The others are horrific. The best PSA to avoid plastic surgery!


Age gracefully my friends!

Kalliope wrote: "Now for a laugh... pictures of the Duchess of Alba from Spain, our most noble family (like the Guermantes, going back centuries and centuries). Her ancestry goes further back than that of many Roy..."

Put it! Put it! lol

Kalliope wrote: "ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "Speaking of Nabokov and the art of translation:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/11...#"

Reem, you find the most incredible artic..."

I absolutely love when people find an article I post useful!! Enjoy your trip to France. You need a break from all your reading! There needs to be a time for real-life inspiration.

I came across this fantastic summary of The Guermantes Way:

http://modernism.research.yale.edu/wi...

Most specifically an explanation about the hats:

"Is anything else going on? Hats are, of course, resonant symbols of identity: they hold the shape of the body and can even extend its moods in a language of gestures, tilts, and flips, and they signal the owner’s loyalty to a particular social group and class. Placing the hats on the floor, shuffling the hats into confusion, carries to the fore a sweep of problems about identity, as well as the associated social problem of the relationship between outsiders and insiders. The character who affects social disguise by carrying the wrong hat unwittingly makes others insiders to his secrets; the character who misreads the code of positioning hats betrays himself as an outsider to fashion; characters who fail to recognize which hats belong to which owners suffer because of their position as outsiders in a world where everyone just knows everyone else. The circulation of hats offers a comic proxy for the anxieties about social status and integration, the circulation of insidership and outsidership, which dominate the party. "

Eugene wrote: "@Fionnuala

No bravo to me, bravo to Marcel Proust for how he orchestrates the parts of speech in successive sentences, always different, always of interest. Generally he loads nominatives to modi..."

Isn't there also a bravo to Moncrieff, Kilmartin and Enright?

Maybe someone would be interested in this:

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/blo...