Toi’s Comments (group member since Mar 11, 2017)

Toi’s comments from the The Insecure Writer's Support Group Book Club group.

Here are some ideas I had for questions. The first two are easy, but the last two may be too hard.

Elizabeth Gilbert talks about “when two or more people have the same idea or make the same or very similar discovery.” This phenomenon is called:
A: Simultaneous Discovery
B: Duel Discovery
C: Multiple Discovery
D: Epiphanic Discovery
Correct answer: C

Elizabeth Gilbert writes about documenting the unusual circumstances of her marriage in what book:
A. Committed
B. The Signature of All Things
C. Eat, Pray, Love
D. The Last American Man
Correct answer: A

Elizabeth Gilbert and Ann Patchett both came up with an idea for a story set in the Amazon, as well as some other very specific details. Which story did they both come up with?
A. A young woman flees a lover and ends up in the Amazon searching for treasure.
B. A middle-aged woman in love with her boss goes to the Amazon to help find his missing son, caught up in a dangerous scandal while seeking his fortune.
C. A college professor falls for a modern-day adventurer headed to the Amazon to seek a treasure.
D. A middle-aged woman goes to the Amazon in search of her son gone missing while seeking his fortune.
Correct answer: B

In the section: Done Is Better Than Good, Elizabeth Gilbert, paraphrases a quote from General Patton, stating:
A. “A bad novel written today is better than a good novel written never.”
B. “A less than perfect, but entertaining, story written now is better than an unpopular intensely concise story written a year later.”
C. “A completed book written now gets published, while a work in progress seeking perfection does not.”
D. “A good-enough novel violently written now is better than a perfect novel meticulously written never.”
Correct answer: D

Elaine wrote: "Question: What did the young artist (known as Little Brother) dress up as for the masquerade party he was invited to attend?...

I too enjoyed the Lobster story.

Susan wrote: "1. I've never lost a story idea entirely, but I've sometimes lost enthusiasm for one. When a new shiny idea taps me on the shoulder, it takes a lot of determination not to drop an ongoing project s..."

I like the idea of "thought waves."

1. Have you ever lost a story idea?
*No. I’ve never lost a story, but I have sat on stories for too long and lost interest in them. With that consideration, it’s more like I’ve discarded or thrown away perfectly good stories.

What happened?
*I think the only reason I’ve never lost a story is because I write down all my ideas. If I fail to pursue or complete them, that’s my fault.

2. Do you think Multiple Discovery is something that really happens or are people being subconsciously influenced by things they've had minor exposure to?
* Mostly yes, but sometimes no. I think there are a few clear instances where people are completely disassociated from one another and yet still manage to come up with the same discovery or idea. I think this happens because people are not as different as the world makes us out to be. In a time when people around the world dreamed of being able to fly, a handful of people around the world began working on a way to make it happen. I think it’s human nature to fulfill needs and desires, and the truth of the matter is that people are often needing and dreaming of similar things, no matter where they are in the world.

In a purely creative sense, as the saying goes, “there are no new ideas”. People are just expanding on, embellishing, or adding a twist to concepts that have come before. That’s not to say that there isn’t a sense of originality to creativity anymore, but it’s rare to see or do something that has truly never been done before in any way or capacity.

Has anyone ever published an idea you thought you came up with years ago?
*Yes. All the time. Again, I think I just sat on those stories for too long.

3. Does getting out in nature buoy your creative energy?
*Getting out in nature keeps me from turning pale and losing touch with reality. It’s a great way to clear my mind and remember that there is a real physical world out there. I guess it’s good for creativity in the same way taking any kind of break is good for creativity. I love an appreciate nature, but I think if I started expecting nature to boost my creativity, I’d start to resent it when I’m struggling on a story… Guess my mind is a little twisted like that.

4. Have you ever dressed up (clothing, jewelry, makeup, shoes, etc.) while writing a specific story, scene, or character?
*I think role-play is great for any kind of story because you can be specific to the genre or plot you’re working on. Dressing up or trying to make yourself look attractive to entice creativity is not something I’ve ever tried. I don’t like wearing makeup, so this would have to be a last resort for me.

5. Do you believe you have a genius, a house elf, or a muse aiding you in your creative work?
*I often refer to my muse, but in actuality, I don’t believe it to be a real separate entity. I think my muse is a construct of my subconscious. As to whether my muse has any genius in it, that’s yet to be seen.

Still, I like the idea that people have genius or genius moments instead of people actually being geniuses. I think it’s more humanizing to be a person with genius than to be a genius. Very few people can live up to being a genius all the time. I think that’s why so many celebrated creative people suffer from depression, at least partially.

1. The Murders in the Rue Morgue is told in first person, past tense, and mostly in the form of newspaper articles and Dupin’s conclusive dialogue. Did this type of storytelling work for you as a reader?
The first part of the story was hard to follow and read through. It’s not that I think it was unnecessary, it just maybe could have been significantly shorter. Once we started to meet the characters and discovered their interest in solving a crime, the style worked.


2. This story uses a narrator to keep the reader at a distance from the gore of the crime and the process of Dupin’s logic. Would this story have gone over better or worse had it been told from Dupin’s point of view?
I have a feeling that seeing the story from Dupin’s point of view would have killed the suspense. Still, I wouldn’t mind someone attempting a retelling where there are less newspaper articles and maybe more firsthand accounts from the witnesses. I liked the interrogations.


5. The relationship between the two main characters, the narrator and Dupin, seems like a simple buddy/roommate arrangement, but these guys are a bit strange. The narrator isn’t given a name and both characters are on the fringes of social society. Does this relationship or the oddness of these characters have an effect on the way the mystery unfolds or is perceived by the reader?
I think this odd relationship allowed the characters to stand out and guide the story. The narrator is intelligent by association with Dupin and a seems to be unbiased in judgment because he lives apart from the masses with Dupin. Dupin is singled out as an intellectual and his mere interest in solving the crime makes him more suitable to the described police force who are willing to pin the crime on someone who’s clearly not guilty.


6. The newspaper articles were the most engaging parts of the story that showed mystery with the deaths of Madame L’Espanaye and Mademoiselle Camille L’Espanaye. The voice for these parts were not only journalistic but full of detail. The first article described the crime scene. Were you able to visualize the crime scene? What detail(s) struck you the most?
Yes, the crime scene was quite vivid in my mind. I could see the large strangle marks around the neck and still squinch my face each time I see the body hanging out of the chimney.


8. The author uses the character's voice to examine the method of crime and suspects, which drives the mystery of the story. Have you ever had one of your characters question another to hold your reader's interest or drive suspense?
Yes. In my short story, Legend of the Boy, the boy is interrogated, only to reveal he knows nothing of his own origin or the devastation he caused. I love scenes like this. I guess we can thank Poe for all those great interrogation scenes in movies and crime dramas as well.


9. The great pull of this story is that the perpetrator is not one of the usual suspects. Up until the “person” responsible for the crime is clearly labeled, there’s a subtle possibility that this story could lean toward the supernatural. Was this intentional? Did Poe want readers to feel confident that however the story ended, no mere or average human could do these crimes, or did he want readers to question and consider that a “person” could do or partake in something supernatural to achieve this crime? Is it a warning or a challenge?
Yes, I think it is intentional. I think Poe wants readers to consider both possibilities.


10. What do you believe makes Edgar Allan Poe’s writing style unique and sets his voice apart from other authors (from his time and even now)?
Poe had a way of bringing out the darkness in a place, time, character, or subject matter while making that darkness feel natural. I think he was the first author to really capitalize on the fact that sometimes people do or think dark things, not because they are evil (without denying evil may exist), but because it’s part of being human.

I think that's why I like the biographies, 'cause I get a whole life in one setting.

Chrys wrote: "Toi wrote: "No. I’ve only read a few and still feel like I’m testing out this genre. I’m not sure how I feel about it. I do know that I enjoy biographies. "

I hope you keep testing out this genre,..."

That is funny, and yes, I'll keep testing it. There are some that look really appealing.

Juneta wrote: "I don't read many memoirs. I am not sure if I know the differences between memoirs and autobiographical. But I just picked up an audible original as part of my subscription about a true story of th..."

That does sound like an interesting book. Thanks for the recommendation.

1. Do you think you have a good memory or a bad memory when it comes to the past?
I have a good memory for certain things. I remember song lyrics but not who sang it. I remember lines from movies but not the year the movie came out or some of the actors. I remember events that made me sad or scared but have to grasp for the memories that made me happy or feel safe. I think that’s why I started taking pictures all the time.

2. A) Have you ever viewed your writing as your therapy? If so, does it make a difference to you if you’re writing fiction or non-fiction?
I’ve used my writing as therapy and as an escape. Either way, writing as helped me deal or get through tough times in my life. I don’t think it matters weather it’s fiction or nonfiction, I’ve done both. I do, however, believe that not everything that is written as therapy needs to be published.

B) Does your literary production impact your psychic (mental) health?
I don’t think my writing affects my mental help as much as my mental health affects my writing. Writing helps me get through a lot of tough times, but there have been times where my depression is so bad that I don’t want to write. I don’t want to read. I don’t want to do anything.

5. Do you find that the further back the memory the easier it is to recall objectively?
I do believe time and distance is helpful. Even when writing something as simple as a book review, I usually wait a few days (except for those times when weeks go by because I forgot, lol) before writing my thoughts. If I do it too soon, I might overreact and say something was the best ever when it may not be and vice versa.

6. How do you think your own prejudices shape your memories? Do you even recognize them?
People rarely seem to either understand or listen to what I am saying in the moment, so I don’t expect my memories to be very optimistic. I always assume that if I remember something a certain way, no one else does or will. Again, I think that’s why I started taking pictures and video. I rarely try to recall past events to family (friends and strangers, yes) instead I just show them the pictures or play the video. I think it’s because I’m the baby of my generation and have no kids.

7. QUESTION: If you wrote a memoir, do you believe it would be necessary to pass your manuscript around to the people in it for their approval and to make sure you remembered correctly?
Not sure about this. If I was telling a story that was very personal to me, and mostly affected me, I wouldn’t want to have someone else approve it. But, if I was writing about an event that affected many people, I may seek verification on how the events played out.

9. Mary Karr offers these questions to help you diagnose your own blind spots in your memoir writing. (What do people usually like and dislike about you? - How do you want to be perceived?)
I find that people usually like me when I am helping them or doing something they like, otherwise most people don’t notice me. I think that the people who know me best are the ones who’ve never needed anything from me, thus got to know me because they wanted to. I don’t think other people dislike me. I’m just not one of those people others gravitate to. If I were to write a memoir, I’d guess I’d take a “wallflower” approach. Describing how the events of other people’s lives affected me.

11. I don’t think I’d ever write a personal memoir, but perhaps a family one. Again, if I’m considering publication, my story wouldn’t sell very well, but my family (me included) are quite interesting.

12. Do you have a favorite memoir (or memoirs)?
No. I’ve only read a few and still feel like I’m testing out this genre. I’m not sure how I feel about it. I do know that I enjoy biographies.

Sorry, I'm late to the discussion. Forgot it started a few days ago. I didn't get around to reading this one, so I'm excited to see what others thought. Reading through now.

Juneta wrote: "I know I hate when I read something I loved as a child and it was not what I thought or does not create the same feeling in me...."

This happens a lot for me with movies too. Even when I was very little a could appreciate "movie magic" and the special qualities of this kind of storytelling. I was the only kid I knew who liked watching black and white films. Yet, when I look back at some of the movies I watch, a part of me wonders why my parents let me. They never let me watch anything with sex and nudity, but some of the films I watched as a kid had deep meanings and controversial topics that I didn't grasp until later in life.

Re-reading Peter Pan was tough. I still enjoyed it but not as much.

1. Using description to create atmosphere is very important. I often go back to do it after I’ve completed the bulk of the plot. It allows me to focus on the details without being distracted by action or dialog.

2, A). I had no idea the blue-bottle was a fly as a kid or an adult. I let my imagination take over on this one. It never occurred to me not to. I imagined an antique glass bottle, once used as a vase, turned on its side with remnants of dried leaves scattered in and around it; Its walls smudged and subtle cracks along the bottom. I thought this was a technique applying human-like traits to an inanimate object.

3. I recently wrote a short story where I pay homage to another book. The main character lives by the principles of the famous science fiction story I, Robot.

4. I like Juneta’s remarks here. I hadn’t considered this, but it fits.

Juneta: "Maybe representing keeping the faith in trouble and in the worst of times it shows up as in "He is with us always"

6,B). I think the explanation would have taken away some of the Magic for me, but then, if I’d read The Magician’s Nephew the whole experience may have been different. Still, like Juneta, I just kinda expected it.

7. Like Chrys, most of the time is wasn’t a big deal, but a few times it jolted me.

8. I do foreshadowing all the time. Sometimes it’s just as obvious as it was in this story, but other times I’m more subtle. It’s fun for me. It’s like having a little secret you’re hoping the reader doesn’t figure out too soon.

9. Yeah, this threw me off even as a kid. As a labeled tomboy, I always wondered why he said that. My initial reaction then was that I can do anything a boy can do. As an adult, I still felt that upon reading the words, but there was more to it. My understanding a war as a child was very different from my adult understanding.

I loved reading Chrys’s thought process, “Does he mean only men should fight because women are precious or because woman dying in battle is an awful thing or because only men know how to fight or perhaps he meant that women fight uglier than men?" Good stuff.

I agree with Juneta though. I’d like to think, to hope, it was more of the idea that; “women should not have to fight, and the fact they do, shows how horrific the state of affairs has degraded.” I think this is not so bad and idea; it doesn’t say that women can’t fight or aren’t able, but that things are so bad that women are choosing to go into battle when it should never get that bad.

10. I didn’t think these were bad descriptions, I just didn’t think delicious was the best word to use and to use it so close together. It just seemed like too much deliciousness without there being any food around.

12. I don’t think it took away from the whimsy and wonder at all, but thought it was a good question to ask. I enjoy reading about other cultures and religions, learning new fairytales and myths, being exposed to different ideas through fiction and magic, but some people may not. I think this has been the best adult re-read experience I’ve had in a long time. Going back to re-read books I read as a kid hasn’t always proven so positive an experience.

I read this book as a child but never got around to reading the whole series. I didn't learn that The Magician's Nephew was first chronologically in the series until I was an adult. I meant to go back and read them all when the movies came out, but it never happened. I'll have to rectify that one day.

Kathy wrote: "I still haven't read this book, and from all the questions you posted, I think it offers ways to view a manuscript from other perspectives which is good when I'm stuck, such as storyboarding and v..."

I agree that there is merit to the idea that writing things by hand helps you remember better and be more creative. The only reason why I think the approach in the book is dated is because it doesn't mention or offer any modern or digital options. I like to write my notes out by hand, but then at some point. I scan them and manipulate them in various ways. I think this book is great, but considering the times, I fear anyone under the age of 30 may not embrace it simply because it doesn't address the modern scope of cinema or the digital age.

Juneta wrote: "The acting proper is a product of conditioning within any society and civilization in general..."

I liked your point about acting proper. I somehow forgot to address this question myself. I also felt as though Piggy thought that if the boys good "act proper" or orderly, it would somehow get them rescued quicker. Which, the fire did go out that one time a ship passed in the distance; perhaps this was foreshadowing.

Chrys wrote: "Simone was my favorite character...the loner. I hoped he wasn't going nutty, and then I was upset when he was killed."

There was one point in the story where it seemed, to me, that Simon might be having a seizure, the way he just falls to the ground and stares off into space. I've seen this at my job, but I could be wrong. Still, it fits with my theory of inferiority. I can't prove that Simon has an ailment, but it seems like the author made a point to kill off the physically odd or weak characters.

Elias wrote: "I believe Piggy and Simon are the civility, sensitivity, and conscience that are first casualties of war. As for whether Piggy would be treated better in an updated version, just google "Lord of th..."

I like your point here. If you think in terms of war, Simon and Piggy, representing civility and conscience, are the first casualties.

For those of you who loved this story, please note that I did not. I’m glad that you enjoyed it and hope that you aren’t too put off by my lack of enjoyment, which is reflected in my responses to the questions.

2. In this story, I feel that fire becomes the universal equalizer. It has the potential to get the boys rescued, it keeps them warm at night, and it cooks their food. It can also destroy everything around them. It had already burned part of the forest and soon it becomes a weapon.

Many say that our intelligence is what makes us human and our advancements are what keep us civilized. I think the fire represents a cautionary theme. Gunpowder existed for a long time, only to be used in celebrations, and then one day it was weaponized….

4. I didn’t see Simon’s death coming, but I knew Piggy was either “not going to make it” or was going to be greatly hurt. When I read this book for the first time, I had no idea it would be so tragically violent. I thought that if a character died, it would be a sad or angry accident. The deaths in this story were all madness. I figured the boys would turn savage at some point after they burned part of the jungle.

5. I thought it was interesting that the struggle for power occurs between the two tallest boys. It’s as if none of the other characters even considered that they could be leaders. In stereotypical form, I also noticed that the hero of the story is handsome and blonde while the villain is a redhead. The quiet, and ignored voices of reason, comes from two oddball characters, as far as their looks or mannerisms are concerned. These seem to be classic, and somewhat overused, hero and villain tropes.

7. A) I didn’t like the treatment of Piggy one bit, but I would have been able to tolerate it more had there some revelation concerning his treatment being wrong or bad. Even though Ralph eventually recognizes that maybe he should have listened to Piggy a few times, he never expresses that to him or any of the other characters. He does actually once tell Piggy he should be leader because he’s smart, but this seems to be more of an act of desperation to not be responsible anymore. He doesn’t want to be in a position of authority and will pass the mantle on to anyone, Piggy just happens to be there.

B) Yes and no. Kids are kids, and they can be cruel, but I don’t see an entire community of boys rallying to pick on this one kid. In a modern adaptation of this story, it’s likely that Simon and, perhaps, some other unnamed boys would have befriended Piggy and related to him as an “underdog”, “geek”, or “outsider”. I think the division of communities among the boys would have been more complex, not just littleuns, biguns, and hunters. There would have been more variety, including some characters with strong religious convictions (whatever religion the author chooses), which did not exist in this story.

10. No. Bullies will always exist where there is a struggle for power, but I see kids interact all the time. Even when older kids are annoyed by little ones, they aren’t cruel or negligent for no reason. I don’t see a group of older kids ignoring a group of younger kids in a situation like this. If anything, they’d be trying to mold the younger ones to their liking. They’d be looking after them so they could turn them into hunters or whatever you call the boys who didn’t hunt.

11. I have no idea why there are no girls in this story. Maybe it was improper for girls to travel with boys. I will say though, that I thought the female pig’s slaughter was a bit morbidly sexual. It’s still a little too disturbing for me to talk about. Didn’t care for that one bit.

12. A) I think the story concept works. It’s a good idea, but how it comes about is the question of debate.

B) I think the time period and culture in which the story is told would have a huge difference on how an all-girl version of this story would play out. Since girls aren’t always provided the best education or aren’t always allowed to be part of society, the population on the island, may or may not be well informed or aware enough to make an interesting story. So many factors to consider…
--
On a personal note, I had a real issue with this author depicting the savage transformation as happening when the boys cover and or painted their bodies. I thought this was a cultural misinterpretation. Seeing as how the kids were on a hot island with little clothing, it would have made sense for them to cover their bodies with mud from time to time to keep their skin from burning. And where did this paint come from? You mean to tell me that these kids have the skill-set to develop body paint from natural resources but they can’t remain civilized?

The hunters begin to develop rituals and chants that lead them further into savagery but the others do nothing. Really? I find it odd that other rituals weren’t developed on the island outside the failed assemblies. None of the kids developed games, came up with fruit gathering rituals or routines; heck, I never once heard the choir sing (maybe they did once and I just blocked it out, out of frustration). I just couldn’t wrap my head around this.

If you’re interested, here’s my 3-star review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Chrys wrote: "That gets me thinking about the lack of other animals, insects, etc. in the story."

Another great point. There were several passages mentioning the heat, but none talked about itchiness from the sand or sand crabs nipping at their toes. They didn't complain about flies at all, yet the flies show up long enough to swarm the pig head. And what about bats? With all the fruit the kids were eating, there had to be fruit and or insect bats coming out every night.

I like your point about spiders. I hadn't considered that. That island was probably swarming with them, nothing like what they would have seen in England. But, I guess snakes do have a more daunting history.

I also like your point about red being the color of blood. I hadn't considered that either. And yes, he does quite enjoy killing.

Depending on the time period in which the story is told, I think an all-girl version could be just as tragic, but in very different ways.

Great starter discussion. I'll post my responses shortly.