Katelyn’s Comments (group member since Jan 07, 2016)

Katelyn’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

I think 2 is just fine! And people should feel free to come and go as they please :)

But let's assume we won't go longer than 2 hours. It would be sad if someone showed up and we'd all left (or were more or less finished).

Let's say 2–4 pm? Anyone else have location ideas downtown?
I can try to get to wherever we are planning to meet early and make a little sign so we don't have to awkwardly ask strangers if they're with OSS ;) (or maybe just just my own social anxiety shining through, haha)

Jing Wen wrote: "Has this thread evolved to a Pro-Choice vs Pro-Life discussion?

I'd be willing to take part if it is :)"

It seems that everyone has only voiced pro-choice arguments (correct me if I'm wrong, y'all), so I don't think so, although you're welcome to voice your own agreement or disagreement. I'd just recommend proceeding with caution in general on this topic. As Elizabeth said, it can become very personal (as in discussions of domestic violence), but as long as debate stays respectful, go for it!

Adam wrote: "Katelyn wrote: "I saw The Danish Girl last week and enjoyed it. It has been getting mixed reviews from LGBT folks but if nothing else, it is beautiful to watch and interesting for its historical se..."

I agree with all that you've said! But I also thought that Daredevil was pretty deep and tackled some big issues. It took me longer to get into it that one than JJ, and it takes awhile to reveal the deeper undercurrents, but it gets there. I think Netflix's Marvel offerings are expected to continue to do this.

Here's the link to the post Tara mentions if you haven't found it yet: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

So glad you enjoyed the book! Look forward to hearing your thoughts in the various discussions that are taking place.

I'm going to close and Archive this thread in the interest of keeping things tidy ;)

How about Sunday afternoon? I think for the obligatory internet-meetup safety reasons, daytime would be best. If we were to meet up around 1:00 pm, there would be plenty of time for traveling home before sundown.

Moved to "My Life on the Road" folder

Sounds like a plan. Any ideas for a coffee shop or something similar where a group could meet comfortably? Some place we could talk at a reasonable volume without disturbing other customers would be ideal.

I'm not up in the Loop much, but I went to Two Zero Three a couple of months ago. It's 203 N Wabash (in the Virgin Hotel) and while it's not very big, they have a couple of big tables that we would hopefully be able to snag. The only issue would be if they were crowded, then idk what we could do! A larger place might be better just in case.

Jordan wrote: "Another consideration for a Feminism based book set that would need to be considered to add to the LGBT theme would be any books by Dr. J. Jack Halberstam. He's a trans author and has written books..."

Thanks for the recs! Make sure you add them to the Book Suggestions thread if you haven't already!

Samanta wrote: "I've never heard of Femen, but reading your opinions here I kind of gotten the impression they are using their boobs? to make a point. By all means, make a point, God knows we need changes, but doe..."

I think blaming sexism on the bodies of women is counterproductive. Women shouldn't hide themselves away just because they will be less respected for showing themselves. We need to DEMAND respect by stripping away the reasons for the bias. There's another thread going about toplessness, and it points to the fact that men can be topless, why not women? Historically, the amount of skin a woman could show has changed dramatically, and that change has not been linear. It fluctuates, even within just the 20th century. Sexualization of the female body is cultural, and by normalizing body parts that have been stigmatized, we can make a difference in how women's bodies are perceived. By covering ourselves up just to avoid negative attention, we perpetuate this stigma.

Sorry, I'm driving us a bit off topic, as I'm discussing these issues more generally, and am not actually familiar with Femen.

Also, as an academic, I am of the "educated class", but am trying to be keenly aware of the privileges I have as a result of this. Education can be sub-par even in developed nations. Public schools in the U.S. are dependent on property taxes, meaning that poor neighborhoods will have schools with far fewer resources. Sometimes, they cannot "self-educate," as was suggested. It can be very difficult, especially if you're working however many jobs just to survive. There's not time for reading and research when you're struggling to feed your family.

Ugh, Ana. He seems to be assuming that the women appointed were not qualified. That's a misogynistic assumption!

Justin Trudeau is a DREAM BOAT. His cabinet is also racially diverse. I just adore him.

Hi Frank, welcome to OSS! We already have a thread going where people are sharing their favorite quotes, so you can go ahead and share these there. Given the volume of threads we are generating every day, we are trying to keep things organized. You can feel free to start threads about specific topics if there isn't already a thread for it :) We also have a thread in the Misc. folder where you can introduce yourself.

The problem isn't that every feminist needs to actively fight for every issue. It's that someone like Jennifer Lawrence, if labeled as a feminist, becomes a role model, and yet says some questionable things that are not actually reflective of feminism itself. That being said, I think celebrity culture these days is the REAL problem in this case. She's just a human being. Could she be more conscientious of what she says, knowing that the spotlight is on her at all times? Sure. But the average young woman does not have to deal with that scrutiny. Not to mention, many people, as a result of media exposure, are more likely to listen to celebrities opinions on these kinds of issues than they are to listen to actual experts. So a celebrity, who has not had any real work experience relating to feminist or other human rights movements, or who has never had the time to read books relating to these issues, is not going to be aware of the problems in everything he or she says. But an expert, a professor of gender and sexuality studies, or the head of a non-profit organization, or a UN ambassador, will have a lot less exposure. That's why Emma's position with the UN is such a fantastic move by all involved; she is educated in these matters, is working hard, and is keenly aware of what her efforts and words are doing.

Okay, sorry for the rant. "White girl feminism" is definitely a problem, but why are we looking to random celebrities for advice on feminism? I don't know.

I do like Jennifer Lawrence. She's an incredible actress. But I'm not sure that she is a feminist icon just for writing a letter about her specific industry. It is a feminist act, to be sure, and an important one, but that doesn't mean we should expect her to be perfect on all the issues all the time.

Also, btw, regarding intersectional feminism, I'll quote Gloria Steinem in My Life On The Road, where it is discussed three separate times:
Chapter 2: "...racism and sexism are intertwined—as Mrs. Greene and millions of other experienced—and cannot be uprooted separately. [...] Though we were both speaking about women's liberation, for instance, reporters would ask me questions about women, and then ask Dorothy or Flo or Margaret about civil rights. This was true even though Flo was eighteen years older than I and had been very public as a feminist lawyer. [...] This was a small taste of a general problem: the invisibility in the media of the many women of color who pioneered the women's movement."

Chapter 5: From Steinem's op-ed originally titled "A Short History of Change" that was then changed by NYTimes editors to "Women Are Never Front-Runners.: "I'm not advocating a competition for who has it toughest. The caste systems of sex and race are interdependent and can only be uprooted together... It's time to take equal pride in breaking all the barriers."

Chapter 5: "But then a few calls came in from interviewers assuming that by supporting Hillary I was ranking sex over race—despite my lifetime of arguing that sexism and racism were linked, not ranked, and despite writing in that same op-ed that the caste systems of sex and race could only be uprooted together, I was seen as asking people to take sexism more seriously than racism."

By erasing women who do not fit the womanhood ideal (non-white, disabled, LGBTQ+, plus-size, etc.), an ideal established by patriarchy, we cannot possibly achieve what feminism seeks to achieve.

And that all being said, the problem is not with actors like Jennifer Lawrence, although putting them on a pedestal and thinking they can do no wrong certainly IS part of the problem. And I'm certain that JLaw would agree ;)

Adam wrote: "Agree, but I believe in a little bit of intellectuality when I do something. I can't see what's the mental effort they do when they write something in their bodies and go naked in public places. An..."

I agree with what you're saying, but I also think that (generally speaking, not necessarily regrading this particular group), necessitating education and deep thinking as a prerequisite for rebellion and revolution is kind of elitist. A lot of the people in the world, whether women or other minorities, who most need to rebel are under-educated and perhaps not totally unable to debate at a high level. In this case, their life experience is an education in and of itself, and the ability to recognize that life doesn't have to be the way it has been is a remarkable realization.

In this case, it seems that the movement was started by women who have suffered a particular injustice, and part of the effort is to bring attention to that. I think that alone is a contribution to the larger feminist movement, pointing out issues that need to be tackled.

Hi Rochelle, we have quite a few discussions about this in various other places, including in the Intersectionality folder :)

Please add all book suggestions to the thread pinned at the top of the folder. Individual threads are being locked and archived to avoid clutter. Thanks!

Perhaps we should try to schedule something for next weekend. Does that work for everyone?

Any suggestions on where to meet, like a coffee shop or a library? Probably keep it central, somewhere around the Loop so that it's easy for everyone to get to (unless we're all close together by some miraculous coincidence? I'm in Hyde Park!)

Hi everyone! In the interest of keeping everything organized, we're going to close this thread to direct attention to the larger Introductions thread. I am glad you are all making friends! Please continue to do so by participating in all of the wonderful discussions we have going, and add people through their profiles here on Goodreads!

We've created an Archive in the interest of decluttering, and I'm now going to close this thread and move it to that folder. Additionally, the Introduction folder is going to be deleted, with the Introduction thread placed in a new home: the Miscellaneous folder.

Thanks for the input!

Hi Lauri, you can make suggestions in the Book Suggestions thread.

I'm going to close this topic now. Any additional book suggestions can be added to that thread :)

Emma wrote: "Art work for quotes from My Life On the Road would be lovely too.... "

Oh, I love this idea!