Katelyn’s Comments (group member since Jan 07, 2016)

Katelyn’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Re: Scarlett O'Hara, I'd say yes, she's a strong female character! Head strong, at the very least ;)

I agree with wanting realistic female characters, well-rounded female characters. I guess I take "strong" to mean "well written"... I attribute the adjective "strong" moreso with regards to the writer's depiction than to the character herself. So to me, a quiet, shy, small girl can still be a "strong" character. And an evil person or one who is easily defeated can be a "strong" character if they are well developed. But I agree that the term may be misleading!

Cecilia, I agree with your assessment of VMars as a show. But she's still one of my favorite characters of all time. IN addition to the other female characters you mention, I would consider Lily, Leanne, Alicia, Celeste, and the guidance counselor (who Keith dated I think? Her name escapes me) to all be very well developed characters. Gia is also pretty good, especially with the addition of the movie, and the one who's obsessed with Carrie Bishop... Forgot her name too! But I thought she was really fascinating.

Regarding GoT... UGH don't even get me started on how overrated Daenerys is... I like her, sure, but I'm so sick of how everyone worships her. Especially on the show, she is sort of seen as this "do no wrong" type. But so much of what she does is SO incredibly wrong.

Anyway, my favorite character has always been Sansa Stark. Okay, fine, not in the first book, but basically since the second book. She's one of the more realistic characters. I think this is why she is so totally hated by fans, especially (male) fans of the show. It's threatening for them to see the strength in a straightforward, feminine girl. I love how she's grown in the books. I hate that the show sort of ruined her character trajectory...

Okay, enough from me :)

Catrice wrote: "We fight the seeds. I never put my kids into stereotypes. My oldest loved the color blue and with her little afro people often said 'he' instead of she. Whatever. My middle daughter, my sister in l..."

You and your kids sound amazing. I was obsessed with the movie The Mummy for a bit as a child, I don't really understand why looking back, but I definitely dressed my Barbies in mummy costumes a number of times.

And Aglaea, I totally agree with you. No one is saying we should judge the kids that do conform. There just shouldn't be a standard to which to conform in the first place! The only standard I have for other people is that they be open-minded and kind. And that has nothing to do with gender. I don't see a reason to impose stereotypes on people beyond "human beings are expected to be decent to one another and the planet."
Sorry, that got a bit off-topic. I think it still relates, though.

Sundays definitely work better for me in general, but perhaps we can wait a bit before we solidify a day at the end of February (or beginning of March even) when it's a bit closer?

I'm here and seated at a few tables on the first floor with a sign! It's behind the wall of booth seats (if that makes sense)!

Christine, thank you so much for your post. You're so right about all of that.

I suffer from a handful of small "disorders" that are under-researched and poorly treated. They are all by far more common among women. It's clearly an issue of sexism. I wouldn't dream of calling any of them a handicap, but there was certainly a point in my life (and many instances since) when I was a young teenager, suffering from these conditions all at once while also dealing with age-related issues, and I was a complete mess. Doctors mostly just assumed it was typical teenage girl drama. It was not. Of course it turns out now in my twenties that all are exacerbated by anxiety so my gyno prescribed me a very inexpensive GAD medication for bad PMS and now my symptoms (most of which unrelated to my lady parts) are entirely manageable. Meanwhile, for more than a decade before that, i suffered and spent unnecessary amounts of money attempting to manage symptoms.

Anyway, my point is, I agree with you 100%. We like to pretend that science and medicine are unbiased but this is a prime example of how untrue that is.

Lene wrote: "Does this mean that "Announcements" is where I will find out which book is next? Or is there a list of books and months somewhere else?"

We don't yet have a pre-determined schedule of books that we will be reading, and this is still in process as far as how books will be chosen and when. This group has grown so fast, and there are nearly 1,000 books suggested by our members (and counting!). Most likely, the next book will be announced in the Announcements section :)

Also, P.S., Meghan's got a team of people who are ready to help with language-related issues if need be :)

Ty wrote: "Jo wrote: "Ty wrote: "To be honest, I think she got suckered into this and she's just too stubborn to walk out. I think a part of her keeping this up is also because of those who yell at her for it..."

Wow, Ty. I think you need to take a look around this discussion board and see the very cooperative, multi-faceted, and positive conversations happening. For you to categorize feminists in the way that you have is absolutely at odds with the goals of this book group, most of the members of which identify as feminists. If you find us so unlikeable, then I'm not sure why you are even here. If you are not interested in respectful discussion about books and feminism, then I suggest you find a different venue.

Moved to Meeting Up section

As local meet ups happen, we will probably lock and archive these threads so that each month, a new date/time/location can be selected to avoid confusion :) It would probably be easiest to keep it on this discussion board in order to keep everyone in the loop and so that new members can find out about meet ups and don't miss out. Hope we can do it again next month and get even more people together!

Hm, yes. I think that with that as the only mention of transgender women, it comes across a bit negatively.

I have to say, however that at least for the first part of the story, I was with her, and even after it is revealed that the driver was transgender, I didn't fault her for her initial assumptions. As a young, single woman who has lived in different cities and often takes cabs, I would have had the same negative reaction to questions about underwear from a male-presenting cab driver. So as far as the first half of the story goes, I don't blame her.

That being said, when she finishes the story and it kind of comes across as a "don't judge a book by its cover" anecdote, it felt a bit essentializing. My reaction was kind of "Wait, what? Oh... okay... sooooo..." but then she was onto the next thing. I really liked the format she had of having many quick little anecdotes in a row, but in this case it felt a bit rushed and I don't disagree that she could have spent a bit more time on that.

This is my favorite things about OSS. I'm so excited that so many people are coming to learn more about feminism. I have a really strong support system in my life that has always made me feel absolutely comfortable discussing gender inequity, and I hope everyone can find that same strength in themselves and others.

Just to bring it back to Jessie's very first post, I want to say that yes, I think you are absolutely right that society values men's feelings over women's, for sure. Yes, as people have said, individuals have different perspectives on this, but if we are talking about the bigger picture, there is a systemic problem that causes women to feel stuck in relationships or to even fear the consequences for leaving.

I feel very strongly about this, especially recently, because two weeks ago, there was a double murder-suicide at my alma mater that left three young people dead. A man entered his ex-girlfriend's home at 5:30 am and stabbed her and the man she was with to death before killing himself. The media has mostly talked about this in terms of "He was distraught over the breakup" and "He was heart broken." By repeating this idea, that a man's hurt feelings lead to violence, and that a man's love for a woman is expressed this way, is extremely toxic. He did not murder for love—he murdered because he wanted to regain control of his relationship.

Statistics show that a woman is most likely to be murdered by a partner when she tries to leave, or soon after leaving.

So yeah, I'd say there is definitely a subconscious assumption that women should expect to be hurt in a relationship, and if the man is the one who is hurt, he will be unable to recover. And sometimes that manifests in violence that is then practically apologized for in the media. Pretty disgusting.

Ty wrote: "Shaiyan wrote: "Ty, In the first part I suggested you re think the aggressive tone while discussing sensitive stuff, however, it is up to you how you want to make your point. And yes, I guess I did..."

Ty, what makes you think that you know enough about Emma or Shaiyan, or any of us for that matter, so make such bold statements as what an "Emma type" is or whether someone is "underestimat[ing] the strength of women" or "treat[ing] them as if they're fragile creatures."
I didn't see anything in Shaiyan's post that suggests that.

This is why you are coming across as disrespectful and aggressive. You do not know anyone here personally, so to make accusations like that is not okay. If you don't want people to think that of you, then I recommend you consider listening to what people have to say rather than making assumptions based on tired, old stereotypes.

Also: Moved to Feminism section

I completely agree. I think the problem with "strong female characters" taking on masculine traits and sacrificing feminine ones furthers the agenda of the patriarchy, which devalues femininity in any form (whether present in woman or man). Obviously there needs to be room for all kinds of women—masculine, feminine, and all in between. My personal hope is that the endgame of feminism will be the eradication of this binary altogether.

Edit: Just to give an example, one of my favorite recent characters is Jessica Jones (Netflix series). She's a total badass, and I suppose many of her traits are masculine, but as an abuse victim and suffering from PTSD, it's really an amazing example of a woman's multi-faceted personality and how her circumstances affect her decision making. Another example is Veronica Mars... also both masc and femme. I just love my lady PIs, I guess :D

Moved to Meeting Up section

Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Tim wrote: "James wrote: "Ash wrote: "James wrote: "Because she has the platform to speak about it that's why... To tell you the truth it really shouldn't be..."

Tim, thanks for being respectful and thoughtful. It is much appreciated. To clarify, I'd definitely rather not go around shutting down threads, but if we're unable to maintain a healthy level of respect, I'll do what needs to be done. And that includes reporting/banning/blocking members who repeatedly break rules. As far as your question about profanity, I think as long as it's not being used in a disrespectful manner or gratuitously, it is acceptable, and you've not done either, so no worries. As far as the term "negro" is concerned, at least in the U.S. it is not acceptable unless being used historically. I don't want to speak for everyone on that, though, especially as a white woman. As a graduate student who studies gender which commonly intersects with race, however, I can speak from my experience in that context that generally speaking, the most acceptable term is black (adjective) or black person/people (noun). "Negro" would only be used for the purpose of historical reference.

I think your explanation of systemic racism and sexism is very well put, with great examples. Unable to watch the videos just now, but I'll come back to them later. I think I've seen the Laci Green one before, or I've at least seen a bunch of her videos and I think she's pretty good at explaining the basics!

I would add to Jordi's assessment (with which I am in total agreement), that seeing Hermione's contributions to the efforts against Voldemort (and beyond, as described by Jordi's second post) as lesser than Harry and Ron's privileges traditionally masculine labor/effort, whereas Hermione's efforts are "feminine" and under appreciated. Not to mention, she does some pretty badass hands-on fighting as well.

Veronica Mars is one of my favorite characters of all time.

And I'm going to move this to Miscellaneous based on the nature of the discussion. Hope that's okay with you, Ash :)

This conversation is becoming a bit too heated and if it continues, perhaps I'm more strict than the other mods, but I will consider shutting it down.

Ty, you are coming awfully close to breaking Goodreads policy. I understand that there needs to be some more leeway when it comes to celebrities, as we all are wont to make assumptions and think we know more about them than we really do. But please remember that Emma Watson is a member on this website, and while she is very busy and may not be actively reading these posts in real time, there is a good chance she will see them, especially given her name is in the title of the thread!

Regardless of a person's status in this book club, be it the group creator, moderators, or members, we will not tolerate derogatory statements from people. Whether or not Emma or whoever else you are talking about are offended, this is not the culture that we are wishing to foster here. This is, foremost, a book club. These debates are secondary, and while they are an important part of the group, if they are getting aggressive or disrespectful, I am prepared to lock threads that go south like this. So there's your warning.

That all being said, I will date feminist men exclusively, because a feminist man is simply one who treats women as equal. It has nothing to do with weakness. It is simply about respect and the intelligence to know what feminist actually means. And in case you haven't gotten this from my post(s), I don't take crap from anyone. So Ty, your assumptions about an entire demographic of people is unequivocally flawed.