Greg’s Comments (group member since Jul 02, 2014)

Greg’s comments from the All About Books group.

Tom wrote: "Could the changes be ascribed to the book being historical fiction as opposed to history? Never let the truth get in the way of a good story as it were"

For sure Tom, and it could be my own bias showing here.

But I cringe at the idea of changing a story about people surviving terrible hardship into a feel-good crowd pleaser where things are made less confrontational but at the expense of softening things to the point that it inaccurately portrays the spirit of that moment in history. And where the people suffering have all their agency taken away from them. That part where they pool their money to pay even though they're falsely accused is a sort of Uncle Tom moment for me, where they're made artificially saintly and passive and lose all agency. It really turns the spirit of the story on its head. This may be June's story, but it's an affront to Athena's story . . . and maybe an affront to the real Chinese workers too.

Lauren wrote: "I saw her in both June's character and Athena's character."

I agree with this Lauren - I think she has some sympathies with both sides, even though both sides are flawed.

Just based on the first 25% though, I'd guess her sympathies tip just a tiny bit more in Athena's direction. June tries to justify herself, and occasionally an argument or two of June's strikes home, but many of the things she does are pretty hair-raising!

Tom wrote: "I am about a third of the way through and am very much enjoying it so far. My only question is [spoilers removed]"

I'm only at 25%, but some of the edits she makes on Athena's book are fairly horrifying! Like softening/cutting real life events to make them more palatable, flipping races of characters, adding random acts of good will to pull at the heartstrings. Changing the scene where the Chinese workers are wrongly accused of stealing money so that instead of defending themselves, they pool together their resources to pay back the money they didn't steal in a weird martyr/high-road thing . . . that was especially galling. She turns them from active men organizing to better their situation into passive martyrs so desperate for the good opinion of their tormentors that they give the last of their money as a group and potentially starve. And dropping the true historical scene where the captain demands they commit suicide elsewhere, that's also awful.

I don't think Huang sees June as altogether positive, that's for sure. For me, the book so far reads as a savage satire of the publishing industry and a satire of writers who write about or edit things they don't understand.

For sure, there are real questions June asks that are significant - as works of imagination, all writers will need to write about people of different backgrounds and experiences than their own.

But June is not the standard bearer I'd choose if I wholeheartedly supported that viewpoint. Some of the things June does are practically the textbook definition of the worst kinds of cultural appropriation. My guess is that Huang is ambivalent on the topic, as most people are. On the one hand, all writing is an act of imagination/empathy across differences. But on the other hand, when people write about things from research alone without any personal understanding, it's easy for distortions, abuses, and problems to creep in.

Wow, things took a turn I wasn't expecting as I came into this book knowing nothing about it!

I like it better now, much more nuanced. And the book has been engaging from the start!

I won't say more here, but I'll jump to the spoiler thread at some point.

I just started this morning - the narrator is (view spoiler)[bitter and petty but somewhat humorous as well; not sure what to make of Athena yet, but her drunk chatter sounds very pretentious (hide spoiler)]! Looking forward to more character depth as I get further. So far, I'm enjoying it.

I plan to start tomorrow

Nidhi wrote: "Finished and liked it very much. I will not forget this book very easily. One of the two things i liked about the book is the bird motifs used all over the book by three generations of family as a ..."

So glad you liked it Nidhi, and I enjoyed reading your thoughts! The distinctiveness of the multiple narrative styles and voices was great; I completely agree.

Rosh wrote: "Shanghailanders by Juli Min

A literary fiction with reverse storytelling, going from 2040 to 2014. An innovative structure b..."

That one looks interesting Rosh! I recently read another book (Umami by Laia Jufresa) that also went backward in time, but I don't think Jufresa made perfect use of the unusual structure. Based on my friends' reviews, Min makes much better use of it!

spoko wrote: "I’m re-reading it (just started this morning), so I’ll join as well."

Great spoko!

Steve wrote: "I would like to nominate Knife: Meditations After an Attempted Murder by Salman Rushdie Knife: Meditations After an Attempted Murder"

Oh, that one looks fascinating Steve!

I'll nominate Farewell to Manzanar: A True Story of Japanese American Experience During and After the World War II Internment by Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston

Thanks Alannah!

And thanks everyone for the nominations and seconds! I wouldn't mind reading or re-reading any of these!

Nidhi wrote: "I nominate How to Say Babylon by Safiya Sinclair"

I'll second this one

Alannah wrote: "You're welcome to second it as well if you like Greg"

I already seconded Brotherless Night, and I don't think I can second two books? But it does look like Anna seconded Brotherless Night after I did. So I guess since that one is already seconded, I can switch my second to one of the others to complete the poll choices?

Both of the last two choices look good, but I'll second Neuromancer

Any more nominations or seconds?

Neuromancer is a classic in the sci-fi genre, wouldn't mind re-reading that one either. Great variety in our selections this time!

Erica wrote: "I'd like to nominated A Psalm for the Wild-built by Becky Chambers. I've heard lots of great things. Sorry can't add link on the app."

Sure Erica, I have read others by her. I like her hopeful slant.

Here's the link: A Psalm for the Wild-Built

Kat wrote: "Funny enough, a girl is a thing based on our grammar, whereas a pen is male and a sock is female .."

That is hilarious! Languages can be so weird.

And that's an interesting idea too, in that using that unofficial form might fit the young and educated characters in the novel.

English is not as gendered as some other languages, but even here there are a great many controversies about pronouns. You're probably already aware that some people prefer to use a non-gendered pronoun "they/them" as a way to represent a singular non-gendered version of he/she. But I was intrigued by a book I read last year, What Moves the Dead (a retelling of The Fall of the House of Usher). In that book, the author did something playful where she invented new pronouns in the book for different purposes than the ordinary ones. In the fictional country of the book, people who were soldiers in that country used a different pronoun "ze" rather than "he" or "she". And if I recall correctly, there were a couple other neutral pronouns used for other purposes (one used to indicate respect)? It got me thinking of how arbitrary our idea of pronouns is and how strange it is that gender identification is elevated above all other aspects of identity in actually requiring a different pronoun, where other aspects of identity don't change the language. As a person raised with the English language, it had never occurred to me how arbitrary that was.

Anyway, sorry if this is a distraction. I was just really fascinated by your post as I had no idea how the German language worked in relation to gender or what the controversies were.

Kat wrote: "I'm listening to the book in German and we have a huge debate here what gender to use when using nouns. Usually it's just the male version and everyone who is not male is included by default:

my ..."

That's fascinating Kat!

So in the audiobook, they are using the newer more neutral form with both the male and female extensions?

I had wondered how it might work with languages that are more gendered. I know in Spanish, even inanimate things are given masculine or feminine forms.

I will nominate Earthlings by Sayaka Murata.

I really enjoyed her Convenience Store Woman, and I'd like to read something else by her. Looks like it will be another weird one though!

Thanks Nidhi!

I do think this is definitely a character driven book rather than a plot driven book (and some parts are very thin on plot), but in the end, I liked it. 🙂