Greg’s Comments (group member since Jul 02, 2014)

Greg’s comments from the All About Books group.

ok, I finished, and I also was very disappointed. The accuracy issues bordered on irresponsibility. Just one example: the book makes it seem that Leonardo was almost solely responsible for the flood, but in reality, he proposed a much more expensive, safer (though impractical) design for the river diversion so the engineer actually responsible did not use Leonardo's design at all. He instead used a design of his own much cheaper to implement (and more dangerous). So where the book makes it seem Leonardo was proposing the flawed design, in real life he was arguing against it.

Another example: Michelangelo's brother did not work on the river diversion project in real life. Storey says she knew this but used it for dramatic purposes. But when the basic facts are clear, that seems really questionable. She seems to be treating these real life men as blank slates to invent characters of her own.

All the accuracy issues were annoying, but I think the characterizations are even worse. Michelangelo is portrayed as religiously prudish and boorish. But looking at Michelangelo's poetry, including some passionate, conflicted, and beautiful poems written about his love for men, that characterization seems hopelessly wrong. He wrote a whole sequence of poems about his love for Tommaso di Cavalieri. Yes, his devout Catholicism made those feelings complicated and inwardly tortured, but nothing in his poems shows a boorish man - his poems are sophisticated and intelligent. He's possessed by two equally strong passions, both for God and for Cavalieri, that internally are tearing him apart.

I am not an expert on either of these artists, but neither of the characterizations feel right to me at all.

In this case, where both real-life men are such fascinating individuals, I can't imagine why you'd want to reinvent them . . . and make them so mundane and tedious to boot!

But the review quotes from the New York Times sound so glowing - I just don't get it.

I'm at 25% now, and although I still think that the characters are not fully alive or quite right, I am finding the events behind some of the pieces of art a little more interesting . . . the reception of the Pietà and the block of marble used for his David for example. Though I am not sure all the depictions of events are quite accurate? Even a casual Google search unearths a lot of differences from Storey's account.

LauraT wrote: "Do it Greg!!! That one is really a great book.
After having read that I remember that I started my personal pilgrimage to all Michelangelo's works I could see - many I have to admit: most of his ma..."

And what an amazing thing you can live in a country where you can do that!! :)

I like a lot of the poetry embedded in the Sixth Beginning section. A lot of it seems to be centered around (view spoiler)[the fear of losing her own identity, and there's some beautiful and cryptic imagery throughout where she describes being connected to something primeval:

". . . it's the same darkness
that makes rock move
across the forest floor
over thousands of years"

and then in another poem in the cycle, the questions what a poem can do within a "precivilized darkness."

Maybe she fears that so much of her life is being spent on caring for the baby that she's being dragged back in time? But there seems something almost mystical too.

It reminds of some weird parts of The Call of the Wild where the protagonist hallucinates cavemen, as though that way of living were connecting him with something so central and primitive that it's mystic. And here, Ravn feels that breastfeeding is like that I think; it's calling her back to primal ways of being. (hide spoiler)]

This is a strange book, but I'm enjoying it.

I'm only 10% into the book so far, and I do not love it at this point either. I'm not very familiar with the historical period other than big events, and I don't know Italian phrases well enough to notice the things that you notice Laura.

But what I do notice is that the book doesn't have the sensibility of the late 1400's / early 1500's, and it doesn't feel like the thoughts of these two artistic geniuses. It feels to me rather like a modern person who has done a little research and is trying to imagine what these people might have been doing, rather than these historical figures actually coming to life on the page. I am very early in the book, but so far, the characters don't feel alive at all to me. Hopefully I feel differently as I get further.

Maybe I should read The Agony and the Ecstasy sometime Laura - it looks good, and most of my friends rated it highly. Thanks for the recommendation!

LauraT wrote: "Annoying the usage of pseudo Italian - more often wrong than right; writing in English you don't have to know how the Italians speak; but if you use Italian phrases please, check if it's how we say those things! If not you, at least an editor! Italian is not Spanish, even if it sounds the same to you!!! We'd never say Mi amico, not even miO amico (which woyld be the Italian correct form), but amico mio.."

She or her editor should probably have gotten an Italian or someone very familiar with the culture to give them some advice!

Nidhi wrote: "*********Spoilers Ahead..... I am using app so can't tag the comment.***********

Greg, do you think the two narrators are same person in different timeline, the third person is Anna who is being r..."

I'm not sure yet Nidhi, but I'll comment more on that as I get further. I like your idea though; it definitely sounds possible.

Nidhi wrote: "I finished section one The Beginning. It is an easy read if readers do not reflect too much on the subject, which I guess is not possible women readers who are mothers.

The book gives a sincere ac..."

Definitely Nidhi!

I think the third person is the narrator's way of trying to feel less vulnerable in revealing something so deeply personal. That's why she says "I don't way anyone but me to read Anna's texts. I don't want anyone but me to know her." Anna feels psychologically naked in telling this particular story, and this the narrator's mental trick to create a little distance in the telling by referring to herself in the third person.

As far as why the author uses this technique, I guess it's Ravn's way of expressing how deeply vulnerable this whole story is to tell. Society can judge mothers so harshly, and as you say, there are so many expectations put upon them and people have such strong ideas of what new mothers should be feeling.

Nidhi wrote: "Because of an unexpected arrangement, I will be travelling from 24 March to 27 April, so I have to finish this book before I leave. I intend to keep notes and join the discussion whenever possible."

Yes, no worries Nidhi! I hope you have good travels, and come and comment whenever you can. If anyone gets ahead, they can use spoiler tags for spoilers.

Nidhi wrote: "I nominate Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal? by Jeanette Winterson"

I'll second this one

spoko wrote: "I nominate Devil in a Blue Dress by Walter Mosley (263 p., pub. 1990)."

I'm out of seconds, but I did enjoy that one when I read it a while ago spoko

Leslie wrote: "So should we plan on starting this weekend?"

That works for me. Is that good for you too Nidhi?

Leslie wrote: "I am picking up my copy tomorrow and will be ready to start whenever is convenient for you all..."

My copy is arriving on Thursday

Thanks everyone - three great selections already! I would be happy to read any of them.

Alannah, if Lonesome Dove happens to win, do you think we can make the fiction read last 2 months instead of 1 this time? I would like to join, but it's tough for me to finish such a long book in one month.

I nominate Fifth Business by Robertson Davies

Jade wrote: "The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern"

I will second The Starless Sea

Leslie wrote: "My hold has come in so I will be joining you."

Yay!! :)

Nidhi wrote: "I too have started it and like it so far. I like the easy straight forward language and the alternate style of presenting the story, both qualities, i hope ensures a swift read."

Glad you're enjoying it Nidhi! I hope to start soon.

LauraT wrote: "Started reading and I have to confess that, if it wasn't for this Reading in Group, I'd have left it there after 50 pages. I'll wait a bit and explain why I'm so drastically against it, which is st..."

Eager to hear Laura! I imagine that with your career and your home country, the correctness of the depiction of these artists will be important to you.

Tweedledum wrote: "Yes I found it on audible too and have started it."

Great to have you join us Tweedledum!