Signal boosting
Amazon have pulled The Flesh Cartel #1: Capture from their shelves, stating that its content breaks their rules.
Which rules? These:
Pornography
We don't accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.
Offensive Content
What we deem offensive is probably about what you would expect.
Well, that's super-clear. ::rolls eyes::
I've written to them to complain using this link:
https://t.co/8UJlsKKB
This censorship is far from new for Amazon. In 2009 they quietly disappeared a number of books with gay content, including one of mine, until the resulting storm of protest made them back down.
Haimowitz and Belleau's story isn't for everyone. It's dark, disturbing, and brutal.
It's just not pornography or gratuitous.
And what I expect from Amazon is to be able to buy stuff from there.
That's it.
I can decide for myself where my limits lie, thank you very much.
Which rules? These:
Pornography
We don't accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.
Offensive Content
What we deem offensive is probably about what you would expect.
Well, that's super-clear. ::rolls eyes::
I've written to them to complain using this link:
https://t.co/8UJlsKKB
This censorship is far from new for Amazon. In 2009 they quietly disappeared a number of books with gay content, including one of mine, until the resulting storm of protest made them back down.
Haimowitz and Belleau's story isn't for everyone. It's dark, disturbing, and brutal.
It's just not pornography or gratuitous.
And what I expect from Amazon is to be able to buy stuff from there.
That's it.
I can decide for myself where my limits lie, thank you very much.
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newest »
God, I am so sick of censorship. Really, are we not all old enough to decide what we want to read? This was my response to Amazon:This is America. We do not ban books here. We celebrate the fact that men and women have died so that we may have the freedom to write, buy or read whatever books we choose. While some of your customers or board of directors or whomever may find the subject matter offensive, removing the right of your customers to purchase The Flesh Cartel here is wrong. It is never a right decision to bow to the pressure of a few to take away the rights of many. You will no longer be my first choice when purchasing an e-book.
Next month when The United States of America is honoring our veterans for their sacrifices in order that we may continue to enjoy the freedoms granted to us as citizens of such a great nation, you should all hang your heads in shame.
Where do you click to put in a complaint with amazon. I didnt see a spot to register a complaint?
Weasel wrote: "During banned-books week no less."
I know! Talk about timing :;shakes head:;
And I've read this book; it's not easy reading, but I've read more disturbing material in mass-market paperback thrillers featuring serial killers. It's not porn. No children are involved. It's certainly non-con, but it's not presented in a 'isn't this sexy and hot' way at ALL.
Amazon have been really, really stupid here.
I know! Talk about timing :;shakes head:;
And I've read this book; it's not easy reading, but I've read more disturbing material in mass-market paperback thrillers featuring serial killers. It's not porn. No children are involved. It's certainly non-con, but it's not presented in a 'isn't this sexy and hot' way at ALL.
Amazon have been really, really stupid here.
Entropy wrote: "Weasel wrote: "During banned-books week no less."
*sad ironic laugh sticks in my throat*
EDIT: I see Amazon have no problem with Daddy and Uncle Too! Her First Threesome. (I also just realised I ..."
I researched chastity devices for my latest novel Amazon sell them too.
*sad ironic laugh sticks in my throat*
EDIT: I see Amazon have no problem with Daddy and Uncle Too! Her First Threesome. (I also just realised I ..."
I researched chastity devices for my latest novel Amazon sell them too.
Tina wrote: "God, I am so sick of censorship. Really, are we not all old enough to decide what we want to read? This was my response to Amazon:
This is America. We do not ban books here. We celebrate the f..."
Wonderful response! I bet we all get a form letter back though.... ::sigh::
This is America. We do not ban books here. We celebrate the f..."
Wonderful response! I bet we all get a form letter back though.... ::sigh::
Kelly wrote: "Where do you click to put in a complaint with amazon. I didnt see a spot to register a complaint?"
You sign in and then go to customer contact here:
https://t.co/8UJlsKKB
You sign in and then go to customer contact here:
https://t.co/8UJlsKKB
Weasel wrote: " I am fairly certain what must have ..."
I think so too. One complaint and they panic, not realizing that the complainer is one person and the people they'll offend by taking it down are many.
I think so too. One complaint and they panic, not realizing that the complainer is one person and the people they'll offend by taking it down are many.
Amazon sells all kinds of sex toys. Just not the books that describe fictional accounts of their usage! Is this the second time Rachel Haimowitz has been banned by them? Maybe it was another Riptide author I'm thinking of????
Tina wrote: "
Is this the second time Rachel Haimowitz has been banned by them? Maybe it was another R..."
I honestly don't know about that.
Is this the second time Rachel Haimowitz has been banned by them? Maybe it was another R..."
I honestly don't know about that.
Un-freaking-believable! I thought they had learned their lesson before about arbitrarily removing books from their shelves, but I guess not. Tina, I hope you don't mind but I used your email as my inspiration and wrote a similar one myself. Let's hope this idiocy is short-lived and they come to their senses.
Alicia wrote: "Un-freaking-believable! I thought they had learned their lesson before about arbitrarily removing books from their shelves, but I guess not. Tina, I hope you don't mind but I used your email as my ..."
I really hope that the flood of annoyed emails they've received brings them to their senses. They don't get a penny from me until this is reversed.
I really hope that the flood of annoyed emails they've received brings them to their senses. They don't get a penny from me until this is reversed.
I've complained to Amazon - given some of the awful titles that they've recommended in the past (download one erotica book, get nasty, nasty recommendations for days!) I think it's ridiculous that they've done this.
Sarah wrote: "I've complained to Amazon - given some of the awful titles that they've recommended in the past (download one erotica book, get nasty, nasty recommendations for days!) I think it's ridiculous that ..."
It is! I've seen some truly dire titles there in my searches. Don't get me wrong; I don't want the dire books removing, but if TFC is taken down, there are thousands of others that should disappear too, using Amazon's logic.
It is! I've seen some truly dire titles there in my searches. Don't get me wrong; I don't want the dire books removing, but if TFC is taken down, there are thousands of others that should disappear too, using Amazon's logic.
That's the point Jane, there IS no logic!Alicia, feel free to be inspired.
I seriously doubt that I'd ever read that book, but I happily told Amazon where to get off.
You guys, thank you all for your support! It's so very heartening to see that even people who aren't going to read the book are supporting its right to exist, and a reader's right to choose to read it. Thank you thank you!
It looks a little out of my comfort zone too but that doesn't mean they shouldn't sell it. I got a form e-mail response back that they are forwarding my e-mail to the proper department. I'm going to buy the damn thing just to show them I can! Look at me goin' all Norma Rae on their ass!
Heidi wrote: "You guys, thank you all for your support! It's so very heartening to see that even people who aren't going to read the book are supporting its right to exist, and a reader's right to choose to read..."
Target one of us, readers or writers, and we'll all rise up to protest. I'm feeling militant as hell right now.
Target one of us, readers or writers, and we'll all rise up to protest. I'm feeling militant as hell right now.
Today a thread I'm active in on Paperbackswap.com got censored too so I'm exponentially pissed!
Tina wrote: "Today a thread I'm active in on Paperbackswap.com got censored too so I'm exponentially pissed!"What was that over?
Someone complained that in a thread called "Den of Sin" the pics were too explicit. They weren't. No frontal nudity, no full rear nudity. Some showed a little pubic hair. I call the complainers the "pubic police". They specifically mentioned the hair. Where do we draw the line if they guys are shaved? I think it's b/c I post guys kissing. That always stirs up trouble.
Tina wrote: "No frontal nudity, no full rear nudity. Some showed a little pubic hair. I call the complainers the "pubic police". They specifically mentioned the hair. "Wow, I find that fascinating.
Ugh. I hate censorship... And I agree that I've seen some stuff on Amazon that raises a lot more red flags for me. But I don't buy that stuff, problem solved. Thanks Jane for the link. Hopefully Amazon will get enough emails that they'll reverse this stupid arbitrary decision very shortly.
Lisa wrote: "Ugh. I hate censorship... And I agree that I've seen some stuff on Amazon that raises a lot more red flags for me. But I don't buy that stuff, problem solved.
Thanks Jane for the link. Hopefully ..."
i do hope so!
Thanks Jane for the link. Hopefully ..."
i do hope so!
I used Tina's message as a jumping-off point (thanks Tina!), fwiw here's what I sent:This is America, and this is Banned Books Week. I'd like to believe we no longer ban books here, that we've learned from the mistakes of the past. We celebrate the fact that men and women have died so that we may have the freedom to write, buy or read whatever books we choose. While some may find the subject matter offensive, removing the right of your customers to purchase The Flesh Cartel (by Heidi Belleau and Rachel Haimowitz) here is wrong. It is never a right decision to bow to the pressure of a few to take away the rights of many.
This is not a book I, personally, would have been likely to purchase. However, that you have removed that option for an apparently arbitrary reason is more offensive to me than anything that might lie within its pages. Certainly it is no more offensive in its content than many other books you sell, some of which you've sold for years. The book is labeled clearly enough that any adult should be capable of making up their own mind whether this is a book they wish to purchase or not, so Amazon's interference is neither necessary nor appreciated.
Amazon has a history of removing - from the site or search results - books that have homosexual characters, and this disturbs me deeply. Amazon is one of my favorite places to shop, and has been for many years. I also make a habit of sending family and friends links to products available at Amazon, telling them how much I appreciate shopping here. I'm afraid if this pattern of censorship continues I will reach a point where I cannot, in good conscience, continue to shop here. I hope that does not happen. Please respect the judgment of your customers enough to let us choose for ourselves what we do or do not wish to buy.
I will write too, absolutely.
Jess (jeayci) wrote: "I used Tina's message as a jumping-off point (thanks Tina!), fwiw here's what I sent:
This is America, and this is Banned Books Week. I'd like to believe we no longer ban books here, that we've le..."
Wonderful letter! Applauding here.
This is America, and this is Banned Books Week. I'd like to believe we no longer ban books here, that we've le..."
Wonderful letter! Applauding here.
Thanks y'all. I think this is a pretty important issue, obviously. Especially in light of the unpleasant pattern it seems to fit. :(
Tina wrote: "Amazon sells all kinds of sex toys. Just not the books that describe fictional accounts of their usage! Is this the second time Rachel Haimowitz has been banned by them? Maybe it was another R..."
This is my first from Amazon, but I did have one pulled from ARe during the Paypal crackdown (Anchored). But they read it, said it didn't violate their content, and put it back up. ARe is investigating The Flesh Cartel #1: Capture now too because they've had a complaint (apparently, Heidi and I are "glorifying rape." Oh please--the only way we could have made the act more horrifying was if we'd killed the guy in the middle of it), but they're handling it like intelligent human beings and businesspeople; they contacted us, asked for our input, and put the book in a queue to be read and evaluated, and in the meanwhile it's still for sale.
ETA: Whoops, forgot to switch accounts, but this is Rachel.
I knew you had been banned before! Stirring up controversy. I'm just teasing you, but you can't see my face or hear my tone of voice to know that. I am glad they are willing to evaluate their position. It's ridiculous that anyone can go to a website which instructs men how to seduce boys into bed, but fiction is banned.
OMG, every single one of you, you warm my heart in ways I cannot even begin to say. Thank you all so, SO much for your support. And obviously it feels personal to me because this is the future of Heidi's and my book at stake, but it's so much bigger than that too because prior Amazon fails always seem to revolve around LGBTQ or kinky content, and that seems like a far-too-slippery slope to me, not to mention morally offensive on any number of levels.But anyway, back to the love. Love you all. Seriously :) And thank you Jane for the signal boost here AND on your LJ!
Tina wrote: "I knew you had been banned before! Stirring up controversy. I'm just teasing you, but you can't see my face or hear my tone of voice to know that. I am glad they are willing to evaluate their po..."LOL yeah, I'm definitely an "unconventional" writer. I do suspect there'll be more shitstorms in my future, too.
Rachel wrote: "OMG, every single one of you, you warm my heart in ways I cannot even begin to say. Thank you all so, SO much for your support. And obviously it feels personal to me because this is the future of H..."
My pleasure! This kind of sneaky targeting needs to be yelled about, loud and often.
My pleasure! This kind of sneaky targeting needs to be yelled about, loud and often.
I had to add my two cents and sent Amazon a complaint too! Rachel's books are some of my favorite and I am an avid reader, spending $100-200/month at amazon on ebooks. It's total crap and eventually they will offend enough people to make a difference in their bottom line. You would think those of us wanting to buy things would have a greater influence than people who are looking for things to complain about!
I bought my copy direct from Riptide. I hate buying books from Amazon, I love my Kindle, just don't buy books from them to put on it. I have over 500 books in my archive, which they kindly store for me, bought from other places. They must love customers like me!
I do like using Amazon for the sample function, but am doing my best to actually *buy* from a difference source. I won't be buying from then until this is sorted...
Jane wrote: "Rachel wrote: "OMG, every single one of you, you warm my heart in ways I cannot even begin to say. Thank you all so, SO much for your support. And obviously it feels personal to me because this is ..."I agree that us who buy books should make a difference but I do not think that whether we love Rachel's books or not should matter. I would never ever buy this book for me, but I bought it for a friend (the day it appeared), because she eats this stuff up. What offends me is that somebody decides for me what I should and should not read. Censorship sucks on so many levels as we all know. I have lived in the country that had it and I will scream and complain on the top of my lungs if need be when it happens in America.
Dumbledore11214 wrote: "I agree that us who buy books should make a difference but I do not think that whether we love Rachel's books or not should matter. I would never ever buy this book for me [...] What offends me is that somebody decides for me what I should and should not read. Censorship sucks on so many levels as we all know."+1. Yes, this. :)
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*sad ironic laugh sticks in my throat*
EDIT: I see Amazon have no problem with Daddy and Uncle Too! Her First Threesome. (I also just realised I can buy a Fetish Fantasy Extreme Spider Gag on Amazon. Sadly they're sold out of the Fetish Fantasy Position Master to go with.)
This seems somewhat arbitrary.