Mute Things spoiler discussion space
As per my usual custom, I am here providing a space for readers who have finished the story to talk with each other about it, without worrying about spoiling others.
The announcement post with more information is immediately prior to this one, click back or here: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...
The updated Bujold reading-order guide is back a few posts further, or here: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...
Enjoy! L.
The announcement post with more information is immediately prior to this one, click back or here: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...
The updated Bujold reading-order guide is back a few posts further, or here: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...
Enjoy! L.
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Jerri
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Oct 27, 2025 05:53PM
First of several comments I plan to make, but just have time for a quick one now. When Penric was first looking at the dead woman in her room, my mind flashed to the cover with the snake and the pot and I figured out the method of the murder a few sentences before Penric did. (Or, if we believe the person who put the snake there, I suppose it might be manslaughter rather than murder?) What an unusual way to commit a murder. I remember using outhouses in my youth and worrying about spiders or snakes in the hole I had to sit upon. But I would not have expected one in a chamberpot.
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This book reaffirms that Penric really is the Bastard's favourite troubleshooter who occasionally gets loaned out to the other gods. (In Thasalon, it was all of them according to Nikys's analysis.)
Loving Des - "You wouldn’t find this much delicious chaos in Llewen’s court. Have we been following the wrong god all these years?"
I really enjoyed Pen and Des's interactions with children in this tale. He treats them as people and gets good results from doing so. The young thief whom he and the body guard mentor was a very touching story line. I need to start my careful re-read. I am struggling to remember the names of characters, when I remember THEM as characters very clearly. But then, my first read was very fast as I was using it to distract myself when feeling ill while traveling.
As I started my re-read, I was reminded of how I enjoyed the way that the Princess-Arch-Devine was using this trip, not only to educate Penric, but also to give him a break from his labors in healing for the Mother's Order, an example of some of the ways that she protected him while she was alive.I also was reminded of the fact that I don't think we ever learn the name of her secretary, whom we first met back in Penric's Demon and see from time to time in later Martinsbridge based books. Does the woman have a name? I am glad that she and the "dresser" were spared the difficulties of this trip.
Jerri wrote: "As I started my re-read, I was reminded of how I enjoyed the way that the Princess-Arch-Devine was using this trip, not only to educate Penric, but also to give him a break from his labors in heali..."Ha, yes, the secretary does have a name, and if she ever gets a speaking part I'll figure out what it is. But as a general rule, I prefer to burden readers with as few names to remember as possible.
The maid Helgi wouldn't have a name here either except that one of my quirkier test readers requested it.
Ta, L.
On second reading, I realized why the name Stobrek seemed familiar: he appears near the end of “Mira’s Last Dance”, remembering Penric from “that extraordinary Temple conclave in Carpagamo. Five years ago, now…”So now we have the full story of the extraordinary Temple conclave in Carpagamo, and the first brief meeting of Penric and Stobrek, which only one of them would remember later. How tidy!
Well, the secretary did have a speaking part in Penric's Demon at the sort of hearing held after the exciting events at the castle, but at that time Pen didn't even know that she worked for the Princess Arch Devine, so he certainly wouldn't have known her name at that point. But I remember she asked one or two intelligent questions at that meeting. Which started me thinking about her very early on.
Thank you very much for writing about this phase in Penric's life! I never felt that we knew the Princess-Archdivine very well, especially with how much Pen and Des respect her. It's great to see the basis for that respect. I can imagine the fun she and Ruchia had, gossiping together.There's a sense of growing old that hangs over the story, in Sassu's relationship with Ruchia and Des, and in Pen's naive enjoyment of medicine and Llewen trying to rein it in. It's particularly sad when we know that in less than five years, Llewen and I assume Sassu be dead. The tone feels appropriate for a closing of this chapter of Pen's life.
I also enjoyed the look into Temple workings and politics. I hadn't expected Ruchia committing forgery, but I suppose that's the Bastard's workings. Pen just seems too upright for that sort of thing.
Rachel wrote: "Thank you very much for writing about this phase in Penric's life! I never felt that we knew the Princess-Archdivine very well, especially with how much Pen and Des respect her. It's great to see t..."Well, the Bastard is the god of spies... goes with lies, I suppose. Leaving aside that a celibate clergy is not a 5GU custom, Ruchia was no nun.
Ta, L.
Completely aside, I just ran across an AI-generated list of the Penric books "in order" (it wasn't) which included the title Penric's Dragon...
It's heavily implied that the temple in Occo knew about the forgery but used it to get the improper bequest anyway. Which Penric somehow doesn't elaborate on, even after the open bribery attempt at the court. It also implies that the embezzled amount absolutely dwarfs the bequest. Sassu got his work cut out for him.
Lois wrote: “I just ran across an AI-generated list of the Penric books ‘in order’ (it wasn’t) which included the title Penric’s Dragon...”Well, I look forward to reading “Penric’s Dragon” whenever you get around to writing it.
Jonathan wrote: "Lois wrote: “I just ran across an AI-generated list of the Penric books ‘in order’ (it wasn’t) which included the title Penric’s Dragon...”Well, I look forward to reading “Penric’s Dragon” whenev..."
To be universe-compliant, it really ought to be "Penric's Fire Wyrm". Or maybe "Penric's Ice Wyrm."
In Demonic Ox I really, really wanted to use the line, "He didn't demand dragons atop." which would have had a snappier rhythm and better alliteration, but I wasn't sure I wanted to admit dragons, with all their our-world cultural baggage, into the series. I've had enough problems with folks' readings by redeploying "demon" and "saint" with very different definitions.
So we got, "He didn't demand fire wyrms atop." Which served.
Ta, L.
Lois wrote: “To be universe-compliant, it really ought to be ‘Penric's Fire Wyrm’.”Oh, that’s a pity. I was wondering whether you might decide to be mischievous and write a story called “Penric’s Dragon”, in which the dragon turned out to be a toy, or an artwork of some kind, or a small lizard. But, if you feel you can’t use the word at all in that universe, that kills it.
