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A Song of Ice and Fire- Overrated?
I think to read this series, especially the way GRRM pisses all over the reader, is an act of S&M, that being said, I've read every book, and even now would buy the next installment because, despite all the many problems the books have, you like the characters, or you like t hate the characters, and you want to know what happens next.I often think that GRRM sits around thinking of new ways to horribly kill off the nice guys. Seems to be an axiom, if the character is a good guy, or if a bad character tries to do the right thing, you better believe the character is 1) about to get majorly screwed over by people she/he trusts, and 2) his/her storyline is, with few exceptions, OVER.
I liked the Icelandic.....mixed in.:)
My phone (so far) can't write it, though.
I only translated it because I had no idea what any of it meant so I figured there were others in the same boat.
Bryek wrote: "I only suggest the wiki if a person doesnt want to read it but wants to know what happens. To me the biggest emotion I got out of this series is disgust. It literally gives me a bad taste in my m..."
If that specific emotional charge isn't your thing, then I imagine wiki is going to save you a lot of pain. The series is full of spikes and sharp edges, thread carefully;)
Okay, thanks everyone, and sorry for icelandic. Sometimes I can´t remember enska words when I need them. Then... from the beginning it is
Lára wrote: "Okay, thanks everyone, and sorry for icelandic. Sometimes I can´t remember enska words when I need them. Then... from the beginning it is"
Just remember Lara, words are wind, don't let them get to you. And don't get too attached.
Kris43 wrote: "Lára wrote: "Okay, thanks everyone, and sorry for icelandic. Sometimes I can´t remember enska words when I need them. Then... from the beginning it is"
Just remember Lara, words are wind, don't l..."
I like that!
:)
if you think that it is all about violence and killing, then dont bother even starting, those arent the point
Razmatus wrote: "if you think that it is all about violence and killing, then dont bother even starting, those arent the point"Nah, what it really is about is "MINE!" (Think Finding Nemo Seagulls). Everyone will do whatever they can to get the throne (MINE!)
Bryek wrote: "Razmatus wrote: "if you think that it is all about violence and killing, then dont bother even starting, those arent the point"Nah, what it really is about is "MINE!" (Think Finding Nemo Seagulls..."
too right well said.
*haaahahaha*In a high voice....MINE?
Well, I loaned DVD of the 1st season of tv series because library is closed today. I´ve seen only two episodes so far and I can say only this: it was a love on the first sight. Books are usually better, so I think I might like it, if I close my eyes when the "w" (view spoiler) word is mentioned.
So far I only had problem with dire-animal dying, everything else´s more than fine.
Will try to get 1st book tomorrow and I´ll read it in icelandic, then 2nd in english, if I get that far
But you, people, should congratulate yourself, if not for you, I don´t think I would have given it another chance. I don´t watch tv at all - not dvd´s, not computer movies or tv programs - so you´ve got me interested well, for I had to start today, that way or another.
And whoever mentioned wiki.. the answer is no.
It´s not what I asked for, anyway.
I didn´t want to know what´s going to happen, I wanted to know quite the opposite - if the story is predictable, if I have anything to lose if I start with the last book.
The problem is when you read the book and you know what´s going to happen next (and when the series finish exactly like you predicted) - that´s what I want to avoid. If you know the 2nd book´ story before finishing the 1st one, there´s no point in reading the 1st book at all. I don´t know if you can make any sense of that ... it´s the thing that I´ve been fighting for over a year now. I just know the end of the series before finishing the 1st book.
To put it simple: is A Song of Ice and Fire that unique so when you read the first 4 books you can say it wasn´t just a waste of words, paper and your time?
Right now it´s rhetorical question, because I´m already hooked but I wanted to make it clear.
I just hope this book is able to beat my imagination. That´s all I ask for and not just of this book, but of all the books. It is sad most manage to fail.
hail littlefinger and his machinations :P
Razmatus wrote: "hail littlefinger and his machinations :P"I have to agree! Petyr Baelish is my favourite.
And Aiden Gillen kinda reminds me of Gary Oldman. both are so funny
I googled 'am I the only person who thinks Game of Thrones is overrated' and came across this discussion. I read the book after a recommendation from a friend whose opinion I respect (very well read across a lot of disciplines, both academic and literary). He was enjoying the HBO series, so I thought I might read the book. I was hugely disappointed, but read it thinking it must get better. Someone else described its soap opera qualities, and yes I think that is what kept me at it (and the lack of any other reading material at the time). I think of it as really a fantasy bodice ripper. Nothing more.
The greatest failing is what a lot of people seem to tout as its strength ie its attempt to depict a complex political environment and associated plot twists. I actually found it for the most part plodding, predictable and quite unsophisticated in its understanding of power.
I feel the author was trying to recreate the political intrigue of something like Dune (including stealing some of its plot devices) but doesn't have the political, philosophical, economic etc insight to pull it off. Akin to seeing a bad production of Shakespeare ... lots of actors mouthing profound lines with serious intent, but no understanding of what the lines mean or need to convey
David wrote: "I googled 'am I the only person who thinks Game of Thrones is overrated' and came across this discussion."Teehee, teehee. Different strokes for different folks. I will acknowledge that I found Martin's writing to be engrossing. Somewhere along the way, I just quit caring. ;D
It is nice to know you are not alone in the world.
I´ve seen both, 1st and 2nd season of the series and enjoyed them a lot, and planning to watch 3rd season as well. I borrowed the book after watching the 1st season, but couldn´t read it. Not because it´s bad, it is not, but because I hate repeating. This is my problem, I simply cannot watch the same movie/tv show, read the same book, play the same game - more than once. Or watch the movie and than read the book - almost never; read the book and than watch the movie/tv show - the only examples being Lord of the Rings, Hobbit, Harry Potter and, now Beautiful Creatures (really bad).
There are really a few books I re-read and most of them just because they´re that bad that I didn´t remember I read them before, and others´re plant care guides with plant profiles so I like to check them more than once.
I think A Song of Ice and Fire is overrated. I´m not completely sure how many people like this series because it´s "beautifully written" but, I don´t see it as something remarkable.
Yes, it is interesting. Yes, it is a bit different than other books. No, it is not unique. I, personally, have nothing against scenes of sex or killing (if we are talking about humans) but I can´t say that´s why I like it. I like it because of so many main characters. It is refreshing to be included in so many life´s and not just in one or two like it´s common in today´s books. It´s refreshing that (view spoiler), and it´s refreshing that sex is not presented as something bad.
What I don´t like about this series is that everything is placed in middle ages and that women are in so poor position. To me, when I read a medieval book, written in 21st century, I see author as a villain. If you, in age like today when everyone is, mostly, the same, pick middle age as your main theme ... there´s something not quite right with you. If you find these things interesting - fine, but presenting them in series that should be "popular", for I don´t believe author writes and publishes a book without a need to be known, is not okay (some people wouldn´t agree that adversing particular god in fiction book is fine, so why should I agree with middle age in 21st century book?). The main problem with today´s authors is that they do now know how to write in present. And not matter how great the books are, I´ll not rate them as breathtaking if written in century other than 21st. Mr. Martin´s series are no different. If you find women-abusing, war, stupid gold and thrones amazing ... well, why do you live in 21st century at all? Go search for some time travel device and travel in middle age if it pleases you. Or try to invent something that can transport you in middle age wars, so you could die young and abuse someone if process.
I certainly wish to insult no one. Just answering the question: A Song of Ice and Fire- Overrated? Yes, I think it is.
I like it, but I don´t see how can it be considered as something special at all. War because of the throne and "king" title is absolutely not uncommon. Story mentioning dragons - not uncommon, either. More than one book saying the same story - not uncommon.
More than two main characters - uncommon but still not enough to impress.
What the first 2 books in series made me feel: hate toward males, hate toward my unborn male child, more hate toward gold, titles, thrones and rules. Anything positive? (view spoiler) Fantasy book? Define fantasy. If middle age cities and lands are considered as fantasy, than yes, you have it here. Some fantasy lands where not past or future is present, no, you don´t have it. Writing fantasy book about past is not fantasy at all. Write a book about present and than we can discuss "fantasy". So called "ya" books are more fantasy-like than this one.
Since I didn´t read the first 2 books (and don´t think I´ll, ever), I don´t think it´s fair to rate it, so I did not, but I can say it´s not impressive. Good but not breathtaking.
Planning to watch all seasons, but not planning to read the books, since I don´t find the story so unique to repeat it. And I won´t recommend it to anyone. It´s not that good.
That's possibly the weirdest take on this book I've ever encountered.
Ok, so, I have a silly question. What exactly do you *mean* by overrated? Do you mean that it is rated too highly? as in people shouldn't give it 5's?
Or do you mean that you don't like it and wouldn't rate it a 5?
Or do you mean something else entirely?
Actually, Sonja, I don't think that's a silly question at all. Definitionally, if someone thought A Game Of Thrones was worth a five-star rating, and they then rated it five stars, that is not overrating it. That is merely rating it honestly. Now, if someone else hated this book and rated it one star, is that underrating the book? No, of course not. Rating systems are completely subjective, and as long as one is finishing the book that they're rating and then rating honestly, then it's impossible to either over- or underrate. The only way the book could be overrated is if someone rated it highly without reading the whole thing, or if they rated it dishonestly.
Well I think it is more feasible to think that those who did not like it disliked to to the point where they can not understand how people could rate it so highly and like it so much. I hate how much shelf space it gets in stores (an entire bookshelf in the fantasy section as well as its own table?!) Its crowding out up and coming authors!
Bryek wrote: "Well I think it is more feasible to think that those who did not like it disliked to to the point where they can not understand how people could rate it so highly and like it so much. I hate how mu..."I think the bookshelving is more due to the tv series than the book series being overrated. And, it has been a while since I read it, but I think the book series lends itself well to the television realm. Even if I don't like it. :D
And . . . also why we have so many vampires and werewolves. ;)
But, I could be wrong.
So far, more people like the series than ones who don't. It has many staunch supporters, as well as haters.
The genre isn't going to go away, no matter what people say, for or against it. G.R.R. Martin is probably one of the most popular, progressive, and
published authors in this genre on the last two and a half decades.
He may not be the most consistent, ( he takes far too long between books for my liking!) but he's certainly got everyone's attention!
I really wouldnt call him progressive... GRRM was a television script writer before he wrote ASoIaF and I think it is really evident in his writing. I agree that it lends itself better to a tv series than it does a book. Tv you can keep teack of characters easier just due to being able to actually SEE them where in a book, names can get forgotten easier.
One thing that is my complete opinion on how well he has done is this: he wouldnt be this popular without HBO. Had HBO done The Seeker (Goodkind) we would be having a "The Seeker overrated" discussion. The Sword of Truth was made into a tv show but not on HBO and people watch HBO because of the amount of $$ they can put into their shows when compared to a company like Space.
I truly believe that HBO defibrillated ASoIaF back into the spot light, especially seeing how poorly book five has been received.
Bryek wrote: "I really wouldnt call him progressive... GRRM was a television script writer before he wrote ASoIaF and I think it is really evident in his writing. I agree that it lends itself better to a tv se..."
I really don't think there would have been as many people jumping on to the Seeker because of the hate for Goodkind's personal political views written into the books would have made people back off from supporting Goodkind.
Well, I think ASOIAF is more popular than Sword Of Truth for the reason you mentioned, Bryek, but also because Goodkind is a terrible storyteller(hee hee hee).
Fine fine. Go WoT. And Jordan. They would have had to increase the sex though.
What are his personal political views? TBH I never got far enough into it before lemming it for the same reasons I lemmed ASoIaF.
Bryek wrote: "What are his personal political views? TBH I never got far enough into it before lemming it for the same reasons I lemmed ASoIaF."He tries to point out his belive in Ayn Rand. His best book, Faith of the Fallen has a similar plot as Ayn Rand's book The Fountainhead.
Bryek wrote: "Well I think it is more feasible to think that those who did not like it disliked to to the point where they can not understand how people could rate it so highly and like it so much. I hate how mu..."well, up and coming authors will have their table one day once they prove themselves as much as he, right?
plus, books that have are currently popular or are from popular authors get the tables/panels... panels are for those authors and books that have the biggest potential to sell well, and so those books actually sell well... you dont put an author there just cos you think they have potential :P
Bryek wrote: "Tbh I really don't think he's worthy"You are the one that started this discussion, so obviously you are looking for people to agree with you, or people to argue with?
I'm not sure which.
Either way we get the idea, you don't particularly like GRRM.
Am I sensing a little jealousy here?
Actually....Lilyan started the discussion.GRRM is not one of my favorite authors, though I see why others like his books.
Can't say there are more that like than dislike.....those that don't will not necessarily say so.
Lmao. I don't have a book I am trying to get published if that is what you think by jealousy. I'm sure if uou read the original post you would find out that I didn't start this thread and understand why ot was made. If you want my original post in here uou need to go back a page as to why I think its overrated.
As for what I meant by he is not worthy. I don't think theu deserve both a table and an entire book stand. Table? Sure whatever but an entire bookshelf is just eating up prime realestate that new books could be using instead.
Sorry for the mistake... I didn't go back far enough...( my bad) I've had a Love/hate relationship with GRRM myself. I find his work inconsistent.
But I cannot deny his talent.
Every time I get frustrated... " he pulls me back in!"
Oh I won't deny he has talent. He just messes up the execution of it.
I thought we were talking about the series, not if GrrM deserves or don't deserves 'flowers':)= I personally don't have much feelings towards him. I only wish he would write faster.
I also wish he would live like one of those Galapagos giant turtles, so I get to see him finish his series.
Now about all the shelf's and stalls he's getting...Oh my, he's getting even tables!
Remember what they said about Dickens? Or Shakespeare?
Very similar things. I dare you to get your own tables if you envy his:D
Bryek wrote: "I truly believe that HBO defibrillated ASoIaF back into the spot light, especially seeing how poorly book five has been received. ."It was poorly received? Where? I thought most people thought it was markedly better than A Feast for Crows. The GR ratings certainly make it seem that way. It's not as good as A Storm of Swords, but I'm not sure any of the ASoFaI books will be.
Last I checked it had a 3.0 rating where the other books were in the 4+ bracket. Everything I have read on it says that the book slows to a crawl by then. With 22povs I would not be surprised.
And yet it sold better than any of the previous books. The show certainly had something to do with that, but let's keep in mind that one of the reasons HBO was eager to pick this series up was because it already had a large readership, which meant a built-in audience for the show.
I won't deny that nor that the series is set up well for a tv series already.
Bryek wrote: "Last I checked it had a 3.0 rating where the other books were in the 4+ bracket. Everything I have read on it says that the book slows to a crawl by then. With 22povs I would not be surprised."Err. It's got a 4.18 rating on GR. The only ASOAIF book that is below 4.0 is A Feast for Crows with a 3.99 rating.
When I checked was when the book first came out. So its reception was more indicitive of his fans before the show imo
And fewer people had rated it, so it was less statistically secure numbers. It was released after GOT s1 had finished, so I'm not sure how much we can infer from the early reviews. My review lowers the average score of ADWD, but I don't think it's the weakest of the series.
Snarktastic Sonja wrote: "Ok, so, I have a silly question. What exactly do you *mean* by overrated? Do you mean that it is rated too highly? as in people shouldn't give it 5's?
Or do you mean that you don't like it and ..."
Making something sound bigger than it really is.
Ratings on Goodreads can´t be taken too seriously. Most of the people just rate books based on their enjoyment and very few rate it based on quality.
People actually compare Song of Ice and Fire with The Lord of the Rings and that´s one of the reasons why I think it´s overrated, as not rated with too many stars but rated as great as Mr. Tolkien´s trilogy even though, at least in my opinion, it is not even near it.
Also, I heard people talk about Mr. Martin´s books as something extremely imaginative. With this I do not agree. Comparing here Martin and Mr. Tolkien, Mr. Tolkien´s world is more imaginative than Martin´s. Mr. Tolkien didn´t use middle age as a guide, or if he did at least you have other things to pay attention to since his stories are full of some kind of action. His world is unique. I fail to see this kind of uniqueness in Martin´s world. Comparing Martin with other (not important now) fantasy books, I see more fantasy in less popular ones than in Martin´s.
I appreciate Mr. Martin's writing, it´s just that I fail to see his series as fantasy and don´t think it´s fair to compare him with Tolkien. Tolkien tried to make a new mythology, while Martin took middle age and decorated it a bit. Who is more original here? The only thing they have in common are elements from nordic mythology here and there.
And I do think his characters are excellent. One thing he did right - deep and complex portrait of human being.
I´ve read only 2 books by Neil Gaiman but not even once failed to see him as fantasy writer.
Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
A Game of Thrones #1 (other topics)The Emperor's Blades (other topics)
Dying of the Light (other topics)
Sandkings (other topics)
Portraits of His Children (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Neal Stephenson (other topics)Ayn Rand (other topics)
To me the biggest emotion I got out of this series is disgust. It literally gives me a bad taste in my m..."
Made me laugh. ;)