English Mysteries Club discussion
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I just finished Untimely Death by Cyril Hare. My next mystery is the BOTM, The Red House Mystery, but I'm going to read an Angela Thirkell first (The Brandons) :)
Leslie wrote: "I'm going to read an Angela Thirkell first (The Brandons) :)"I've collected a bunch of the series, and still haven't gotten round to them. All together now: So many books, so little time!!
Dennis, really liked all of Elizabeth George's Inspector Lynley (sp?) series. I read all her work and then I began to watch the series out of England. They may still be doing this. It is always hard to tell given we can't get all the series being produced. They did not stick entirely to the books, but they are still enjoyable.
Tracey wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I'm going to read an Angela Thirkell first (The Brandons) :)"I've collected a bunch of the series, and still haven't gotten round to them. All together now: So many books, so littl..."
I've got an Angela ThirKell somewhere on Mt TBR. I can't Remember which one though. Hmmmm...something about strawberries maybe...
ETA: This one, Wild Strawberries.
Karlyne wrote: "I've been reading Ellis Peters' Felse mysteries, but have just moved on to re-reading Margery Allingham. I'm finding Campion to be just as much fun as he used to be; I remember that I liked the way..."I read one Felse mystery and then moved on to Cadfael. But this was quite awhile ago. Will check out the Felse series again.
I love Margary Allingham. Campion is fun, but his major domo is really a character. While he certainly does not have the same steriotypic British appearance of a butler, like Jeeves in the Wooster works, he is so unique. Not sure Campion alone could hold a series.
It is great that this group likes a lot of the same books I do. I have struggled to find some people that I can discuss books with.
Jean-Luke wrote: "I just started Shroud For A Nightingale by P.D. James. Not sure if I'm crazy about the setting or Nurse Beale, but it's gotten good reviews on here. Anyone else read it?"I think that P. D. James is one of the greats. However her work is dark as are her characters. Dalgliesh always appears to be morose, and the fact that he writes poetry that has been recognized as part of the plot just makes him more difficult to understand in the series.
I really do think they should be read in order because a bit more of Dalgliesh's persona is revealed in each book. Just little bits and pieces. The idea of reading separately seems to work for some because the actual plots vary so much. But if you have any interest in the series, and Dalgliesh, then in order is at least my suggestion. (I am sure opinions will vary.)
Her last work was not about Dalgliesh. And I did not really enjoy it. But I know if she ever does produce another book about him, I will look forward to it.
I won't spoil it by discussing how his life progresses, both good and bad.
Kate wrote: "Susan wrote: "Mine too. I still have my collection that is probably 50 years old. Talk about a hoarder."You've got your terminology wrong, Susan. You're a
collector
, not a hoarder. Takes on..."
I kind of have two viewpoints on this one based on a couple of friends who have books. One of my friends has walls and walls of bookshelves filled with dusty bodice rippers and Harlequin romances. The shelves are dirty, she has not taken a book out of any of them for years, and the dust is making her sick. She won't lend a single book out even though she does not really know what she has. This is hoarding.
But I envy anyone who has the room to collect books. I have a very small house and books were taking over so I made a really hard decision and got rid of quite a few books. I did not get rid of any older books, but the ones I had gathered that were newer went. It was very difficult, but I did not want them to be damaged by putting them in the cellar and was running out of room.
After being a member of this forum for a few weeks I think I may go back and acquire a few of my very most favorites. I have set aside one bedroom to be my "library" and have a bit of room to do that.
I am like all of you; I love books.
Kathy wrote: "Her last work was not about Dalgliesh. And I did not really enjoy it. But I know if she ever does produce another book about him, I will look forward to it."That wouldn't be the (IMO) abysmal Death Comes to Pemberley you're talking about, would it?
And thanks for your thoughts about reading the Dalgliesh series in order. This is what I had originally thought because the few episodes I've seen of the TV series gave the impression that there was a larger story arc to do with his private life.
Tracey wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I'm going to read an Angela Thirkell first (The Brandons) :)"I've collected a bunch of the series, and still haven't gotten round to them. All together now: So many books, so littl..."
Hehehe! Yes, I have that dilemma as well :-P Plus I have embarked on a quest to read more books from the Guardian's 1000 novels everyone should read list (I've only read 155 of the 1000 which I find embarrassing).
I just started reading these Angela Thirkell books this summer -- if you like Jane Austen or EF Benson, you'll like these!
Kate wrote: "You've got your terminology wrong, Susan. You're a collector , not a hoarder. Takes one to know one: I've got the complete Georgette Hyers, the complete Hamish MacBeths, working on the complete Catherine Aird & Aaron Elkins' forensic anthropologist. And then there are the CDs, & the DVDs ...Collector (said firmly, brooking no argument!)"
I too have the complete Georgette Heyer (some of them are my second copy since the first had been read to the point of falling apart!). I also have some very old books (80-100 years old) that I got from my mom who got them from her uncle who bought them new!
Tracey wrote: "Hj wrote: "What do you think?? It's one of my favourite books, and I've re-read it several times and feel almost sure of this interpretation! ..."It's definitely possible. But ... I didn't see it..."
Unfortunately we'll never know because I think it's deliberately ambiguous, but thank you for entertaining the possibility! You found and quoted the passage I had at the back of my mind, but you're right that it too is ambiguous. (Unless someone writes a biography of JT and finds/get access to her papers, and the drafts show which she favoured... I can dream!)
It's great about the other books being on that site, isn't it! I've gradually acquired them and read them over the years, but I'm pleased to see them so available for everyone. I wonder what you'll think of them?
It's funny to think that at the time Josephine Tey was more famous and successful for being a playwright, and we know from her own books what London's theatres were like then and how central to life and entertainment they were. (And also from Ngaio Marsh.) It sounds as though certain plays were as popular as Downton Abbey or Strictly Come Dancing are now!
Leslie wrote: "I just finished Untimely Death by Cyril Hare. My next mystery is the BOTM, The Red House Mystery, but I'm going to read an Angela Thirkell first (The Brandons) :)"It's a while since I read Cyril Hare, but I remember that I liked them. What did you think?
Jemidar wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Her last work was not about Dalgliesh. And I did not really enjoy it. But I know if she ever does produce another book about him, I will look forward to it."That wouldn't be the (IM..."
I agree with the advice to read Dalgliesh in order. I found I couldn't read PDJ any more because they were so bleak. I tried Death Comes to Pemberley because of loyalty for her earlier good books and because I love Jane Austen, but I have to agree with your verdict Jemidar - abysmal!
There's a few people out there who love both P.D. James' Dalgliesh and Jane Austen who thought this book was an injustice to both. The publishers are probably the only people who were happy.
Hj wrote: "(Unless someone writes a biography of JT and finds/get access to her papers, and the drafts show which she favoured... I can dream!) ..."That's been my dream all year, since I started my latest reread: if some half-finished manuscript could turn up, a la Dorothy L. Sayers ...! And I'm of exactly the same mind about her celebrity. I read the first book using Tey as a character - An Expert in Murder; I didn't care much for the book, really, but I loved the behind-the-scenes look at just how huge Richard of Bordeaux was, how people went back again and again - and again - to see it. (Which made some parts of Daughter of Time absolutely hilarious.)
Carole and Karlyne - Fantastic to find other Marsh lovers!!!! I have tried to find and read all her books. With the older mystery writers it is hard because the lists vary. I suppose I should check out the Library of Congress against my list and see what I am missing.
Leslie wrote: "I just started reading these Angela Thirkell books this summer -- if you like Jane Austen or EF Benson, you'll like these! ..."For some reason I've been thinking they're in the same family as D.E. Stevenson, too. They definitely seem right in that pocket - I'm looking forward to them. They just keep getting buried in Mount TBR.
hj - Thanks so much. I find his life and story fascinating. His reign was very short, and how he ended up king is filled with controversy. I have read some fiction and non-fiction about him and his brothers as well as his nephews. As with most history, although it is a passion of mine I do recognize that all we will ever really know is what is written down somewhere. Many of us will be limited because we can't read Latin, Olde Engish or even Middle English. So we have to rely on translations. And of course many of us don't have the access to libraries that some scholars do.
But I tend to like stories about controversial rulers and those that are particularly interesting. It is interesting that there are so very many viewpoints on his life and character; what he would and would not do.
You have already been helpful, but if you think of any books that might be interesting, much appreciated.
Jemidar - Yes, that is the one. I have several friends that, like me, greatly admire P. D. James and really adore the Dalgliesh series. I would not blame her if, after all these many years, she is sick of him, but like in so many cases, the author loses interest before the reader. One of my James-loving friends feels that we may not see any more books from her given her age. She supports this with her latest book, which is disappointing.
I am going to hold out hope though. While she is at a considerable advanced age, this is not necessarily an indicator that she can't write any more. What a loss if that were true!!!
One author that I think does not have to be read in sequence is Agatha Christie. I know she wrote some books that were not in a series, but even her Poirot and Miss Marple could be read alone. There are no dark characters with deep personalities.
One of the reasons I enjoy British authors is their ability to develop characters. And if one excludes Dalgliesh's life, then they can be read separately.
Unfortunately, if you exclude the pieces of Dalgliesh's life that come out in these books as the stories progress, there is a real chance of missing the intricacies of the work that make P.D. James so highly respected and winner of so many awards.
Leslye - Where can I find that list? I did see a reference to a list of 1000 books we all must read before we die, but could not find it. My guess is that, although I have read thousands of books over the years, my list that matches will be smaller than yours. While I have great "masterpieces" here and there, I tend to read a lot of old English mysteries, and then just some fun reads like M.C. Beaton.
Hj wrote: "It's a while since I read Cyril Hare, but I remember that I liked them. What did you think?"A quick pleasurable read. I particularly liked the pacing and of course the British law aspects are fun.
Tracey wrote: "Hj wrote: "(Unless someone writes a biography of JT and finds/get access to her papers, and the drafts show which she favoured... I can dream!) ..."That's been my dream all year, since I started ..."
Wouldn't it be fantastic if someone found a cache of unpublished books? But I tend to think that about a few special authors who didn't write enough books.
I couldn't get into the Upson book when I tried the first one so I didn't know that it did that.
I agree that DEATH COMES TO PEMBERLEY is terribly disappointing. There are better mystery novels set in Austen-land.I enjoyed Josephine Tey on King Richard. What are her other novels like? Which one should I read next?
My main (Off Topic!) hope along these lines is for Harper Lee. I'm certainly not rushing her into the grave, and I'm not pinning anything on anything being found for anyone - but a girl can dream. :) According to the Upson book, Richard of Bordeaux was a little like Cats or Wicked or something at its height, or like the Lord of the Rings movies for friends of mine. People went ten or twenty or more times, and queued for a block on the chance of tickets on sold out nights. The actors were mobbed for autographs - and when anyone realized who she was, so was Josephine Tey/Gordon Daviot. Fans bought up all sorts of tchotchkes - on my review on my blog I stuck a picture of the dolls that were produced (and which played a part in Upson's book). All the fan-craziness sounded very modern.
Tracey wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I just started reading these Angela Thirkell books this summer -- if you like Jane Austen or EF Benson, you'll like these! ..."For some reason I've been thinking they're in the sam..."
I love Angela Thirkell and I agree that they fit in with DE Stevenson. They also remind me of Elizabeth Cadell. You may appreciate this article from the NYT on her writing http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/opi...
I don't know if you have ever tried the Literature Map? You type in an author and it gives you a visual map of similar authors and how much they resemble each other. I find it quite addictive. http://www.literature-map.com/
I agree with you on Expert in Murder. I also found the book quite hard going, but enjoyed the background information on the play.
Carolien wrote: "I don't know if you have ever tried the Literature Map? You type in an author and it gives you a visual map of similar authors and how much they resemble each other. I find it quite addictive. http://www.literature-map.com/..."LOL - I've seen that site, and backed away quickly and carefully before I had the chance to start playing and come around later realize I'd killed six or seven hours on it. :) It is so very cool.
What Should I Read Next is another one, not as nifty, but startlingly accurate as far as I've used it.
Cadell! Yes. Thank you for the article - I'll check it out.
Kathy wrote: "hj - Thanks so much. I find his life and story fascinating. His reign was very short, and how he ended up king is filled with controversy. I have read some fiction and non-fiction about him and ..."Kathy - you're welcome! Yes, we are at the mercy of those who write history - although perhaps less now than in the past, with the Internet making it easier to do research and find alternative views. I'm giving you another link, to The Richard III Society, because it looks very comprehensive and includes some details about books (look under the Library tab on the left, and then at the catalogues). The FAQ tab top right is also useful. Hope you find it helpful!
http://www.richardiii.net
Tracey, Thanks for sharing. Of course I will also probably become addicted and people will have to rip me away from the computer. !!!!
Jemidar wrote: "Tracey wrote: "Hj wrote: "What do you think?? It's one of my favourite books, and I've re-read it several times and feel almost sure of this interpretation! ..."It's definitely possible. But ... ..."
I look forward to seeing what you think about my theory, Jemidar! Regardless, Brat Farrar is a very good book. It's a theme I love, the lost heir claimant who may or may not be an imposter. If you like it, you could also try The Ivy Tree by Mary Stewart.
Jemidar wrote: "There's a few people out there who love both P.D. James' Dalgliesh and Jane Austen who thought this book was an injustice to both. The publishers are probably the only people who were happy."Yes - I agree. I don't usually read Austen sequels and was annoyed I'd done so.
Brenda wrote: "I agree that DEATH COMES TO PEMBERLEY is terribly disappointing. There are better mystery novels set in Austen-land.I enjoyed Josephine Tey on King Richard. What are her other novels like? Whic..."
Josephine Tey's other novels are excellent. I suggest The Man in the Queue as its the first of the Inspector Grant books. It's very good, and it will also give you a feel for the way the London theatre was at the time (1920s and 1930s) which we've been discussing here. My favourite in the series is the last Alan Grant, The Singing Sands.
book:The Franchise Affair|243401] isn't part of the series (though Grant appears briefly) and it is a really clever mystery with excellent characterisation. It's probably my favourite after Brat Farrar, and I've re-read it often.
I love Mary Stewart Hj, but haven't read The Ivy Tree yet. Fingers crossed I get to it soon(ish).
Leslie wrote: "Hj wrote: "It's a while since I read Cyril Hare, but I remember that I liked them. What did you think?"A quick pleasurable read. I particularly liked the pacing and of course the British law asp..."
Have you tried
Nicholas Blake? (aka Cecil Day-Lewis!) I associate him with Cyril Hare for some reason - maybe I read them at the same time - although I have to admit I can't remember if their books are actually similar.
Kathy wrote: "Carole and Karlyne - Fantastic to find other Marsh lovers!!!! I have tried to find and read all her books. With the older mystery writers it is hard because the lists vary. I suppose I should ch..."Kathy - one of the problems is that some of her books were given different names for the American market (e.g. Swing Brother Swing was called A Wreath for Rivera in the US). Wikipedia has a good list identifying these changes. Looking down that list, I realise that I much prefer the early books to the later ones (although I love Clutch Of Constables). And to revisit one of the themes, I do think they're best read in order, so that you can see how Alleyn develops and understand his relationship with Troy (and Fox).
Hj, my go-to for trying to figure out what comes where in a series and what all the different titles have been is Fantastic Fiction - that site is indispensable.
Kathy wrote: "Leslye - Where can I find that list? I did see a reference to a list of 1000 books we all must read before we die, but could not find it. My guess is that, although I have read thousands of books..."I found it on another GR group I belong to -- here is the post from that group:
"The Guardian posted a list of the 1000 novels they believe everyone should read back in 2009. Which of them have you read?
The list is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/..."
Carolien wrote: "Tracey wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I just started reading these Angela Thirkell books this summer -- if you like Jane Austen or EF Benson, you'll like these! ..."For some reason I've been thinking they're in the sam..."
I love Angela Thirkell and I agree that they fit in with DE Stevenson. They also remind me of Elizabeth Cadell. You may appreciate this article from the NYT on her writing http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/opi..."
Thanks guys! Now I have even more books on my to-read list!! :-P
Tracey, I was just going to mention fantasticfiction.co.uk when I saw your post. I refer to that website almost daily to get the correct order of books. They also give alternate names when books are published under different titles.I can't remember who mentioned Mary Stewart, but I loved her mysteries. Nine Coaches Waiting and Thunder on the Right quickly come to mind.
Hj wrote: "The Franchise Affair isn't part of the series (though Grant appears briefly) and it is a really clever mystery with excellent characterisation. It's probably my favourite after Brat Farrar, and I've re-read it often..."I'm in complete agreement!! I have probably read Brat Farrar and The Franchise Affair 6 or 7 times each... Another Tey book that isn't part of the Inspector Grant series is Miss Pym Disposes, which is very good but quite different in feeling from the Inspector Grant books.
Jemidar wrote: "I love Mary Stewart Hj, but haven't read The Ivy Tree yet. Fingers crossed I get to it soon(ish)."I recently reread The Ivy Tree, and was confirmed in my feeling that it isn't one of Stewart's best... however, it is very similar to Brat Farrar.
Hj wrote: "Leslie wrote:...Have you tried Nicholas Blake? (aka Cecil Day-Lewis!) I associate him with Cyril Hare for some reason - maybe I read them at the same time - although I have to admit I can't remember if their books are actually similar."
Not yet. He is one of my to-read authors (The Beast Must Die is on that Guardian 1000 novels list!) Maybe he could be our December author of the month!
About half way through "The Likeness"
the sequel to "In the Woods". One of my favorite characters is MIA so far, but am hoping he will appear before the story is finished.
Tracey wrote: "Hj, my go-to for trying to figure out what comes where in a series and what all the different titles have been is Fantastic Fiction - that site is indispensable."I agree! I also like http://www.fictfact.com
Leslie wrote: "Hj wrote: "The Franchise Affair isn't part of the series (though Grant appears briefly) and it is a really clever mystery with excellent characterisation. It's probably my favourite after Brat Farr..."Miss Pym Disposes is perhaps my least favourite Tey, because it is rather bleak. However, even a "least favourite Tey" still ranks higher than most books! I wonder if it has a degree of autobiography, given that she attended a physical training college and worked as a PT instructor?
Leslie wrote: "Jemidar wrote: "I love Mary Stewart Hj, but haven't read The Ivy Tree yet. Fingers crossed I get to it soon(ish)."I recently reread The Ivy Tree, and was confirmed in my feeling that it isn't on..."
I agree that it isn't one of her best, but I think it is still very good. She is another of the authors who I re-read often - perhaps Madam, Will You Talk? is my favourite, although Nine Coaches Waiting runs it close.
Wow, the county library has only DAUGHTER OF TIME on the shelves. Must check catalog at the county next over.
Tracey wrote: "Carolien wrote: "I don't know if you have ever tried the Literature Map? You type in an author and it gives you a visual map of similar authors and how much they resemble each other. I find it quit..."Oh dear, this could be fatal. I can see many reading hours being devoted to this site!
Reading my way through the Anna Pigeon mysteries by Nevada Barr. Currently reading High Country.
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It's definitely possible. But ... I didn't see it..."
What an interesting discussion. I'm going to have to read this soon to see what I think!
And Tracey, I'm glad I found you more books ;-).