dont like it ..dont read it Showing 251-300 of 1,896

[Karen]

Well obviously you are easily offended, while I admit that this is not a turn on... its not THAT bad!! I've read many other things that would fit into the repulsive category, and this is quite mild in comparison.

[Marra]

Christine wrote: "Mary wrote: "Henry wrote: "As far as intelligence, I regard women on the whole to be far more intelligent than men, better organized, and not subject to excessive testosterone. My fears of this boo..."

You're talking about women here. Teenage girls are reading this. How many girls went out looking for their "Edward Cullen" in the wake of Twilight. Luckily, most guys wouldn't be into drinking their blood. Unfortunately, there's a lot of guys out there that would enjoy being the "Christian Grey" to these girls Ana".

And I have no doubt 50 Shades is tame. I've read non-erotica that's more risque. But those books aren't a craze. 50 Shades is, and unfortunately we live in a world were sheep-like girls are the rule, not the exception. As soon as one of them get in on it, thousands will follow. (Just to reiterate, I'm not saying every girl out there is a mindless clone of her peers, I like to think I never was, but girls in general...yeah...)

[Karen]

First of all, this book wasn't written for the teenage girl audience!! If teenage girls are reading it... that can't be helped, but their parents should be involved in their reading choices.

Also, give women more credit! This is FANTASY!!! Not real life. Most women would run fast away from a guy like Christian Grey. And those that say they are looking for him... are just saying that. They would probably not be interested in that type of guy in real life.

Part of the whole romance genre encompasses this idea of being dominated by a man!!! Women love to read it... not experience it in real life. Don't confuse the two.. People who read romance and enjoy a great alpha male character don't necessarily act it out in their lives. This is the whole purpose for reading... entertainment. If you don't enjoy reading that type of book, then don't read it!!!! But don't ridicule those who do. To each his own!!!

[Rebecca]

Haha Ladies and Gentlemen, woah calm down, can I just take the time to make myself clear, because this is again a time that written responses in a public forum can be soo easily misconstrued. So please allow me to express my feelings about the tampon scene in detail.

Personally, I have no issue with the tampon scene, my comments above about that scene are very tongue in cheek. My "EEwww" comment was actually about a scene in Memnoch the Devil, and I also added that I happened to love that book.

I don't find periods gross - I don't find reading about them gross. But, this book is a piece of erotica and I (and again this is a personal opinion) don't find a tampon particularly sexy in a foreplay scene, because that's what we are talking about here, a scene that was written to tittilate.

However, if there are women out there that feel as though that the realism of a tampon in erotica adds value to the erotic/kinky/racey nature of the book I'm not going argue with that, that's their opinion. For me, I don't actually think it is anything outrageous, infact I said (above) that I found the whole scene amusing.

Now just because I think that that particular section of erotica read like a comedy (I was actually more interested in Chritian's idea that sex during a period was a form of contraception), doesn't mean that I am ashamed of periods, disgusted by them, and I am not in any way opposed to sex during your period, etc etc. - Please! *sigh*

Just as an aside @Mary, I have read the Red Tent and I really enjoyed that book. I loved the way it celebrated fertility, the feminine and all that is sacred about the female body.

Also, just another clarification about my view of 50 shades. I have never said that I have a concern that women who fantasize about this book will run off with an abusive partner. What I have said is that I have concerns that some women (not all), in this forum don't seem to be able to recognise the difference between BDSM and what is abuse, and that does worry me.

[Rebecca]

I love this thread, anyone enjoying it as much as me?

[Karen]

B3cs wrote: "I love this thread, anyone enjoying it as much as me?"

I'm glad you're enjoying this... I am too!

And to respond to you comment on the tampon scene... I don't think, although this is just my opinion, that EL James added that particular tidbit of information to add to the sexual foreplay of the scene. I believe that it was added to increase the intimacy of the characters. That is not something that most women would let their man do for them...
I believe there is also a scene where she allows him to shave her... something women would also not involve their partner to do for them. These are all examples of how she allowed him access to her. Some may find this creepy, to some it is the ultimate act of trust and intimacy.

To address your worry about blurring the lines between abuse and BDSM, I don't think women need to be tutored on this issue. Those who support BDSM are well aware of what they are doing and consenting to. And that is the key... mutual consent. It's not abuse if you agree to it.
I think you are selling women short. I think women know what they like and what they are willing to put up with. This book is not going to change that.

[Jenna]

B3cs wrote: "I love this thread, anyone enjoying it as much as me?"

yes very much so :)

[Rebecca]

Karen wrote: "B3cs wrote: "I love this thread, anyone enjoying it as much as me?"

I'm glad you're enjoying this... I am too!

And to respond to you comment on the tampon scene... I don't think, although this i..."

I take your point about the intimacy between the characters, but I don't think there was enough character/relationship development in other areas of the novel to give me that illusion of intimacy. But I get what you are saying.

I actually don't expect alot of character development in an erotica, but if an author is going to attempt to get me intellectually and emotionally invested (which I think James does try to do) she or he has got to get it right, or the erotica is going to fall down (I'm referring to my own specific enjoyment of a book here). I need the author to either take the time to make the characters somewhat believable and vibrant, or put it all aside and focus just on the erotica (again, for me to enjoy the book).

I'm sorry you feel that I am selling women short, that is not my intent. I am trying to express why I find the character Christian Grey as off putting as I do, and in turn get some understanding why some women find this character sexy. I have no problem with mutual consent, I think I have made this very clear. In my exploration of this, I have included what I believe is BDSM and what crosses the line, that is all part of expressing my point of view. Similarly I do not accuse anyone of trying to "tutor" me on what makes a good book etc etc. We are all just expressing different points of view.

[Karen]

B3cs wrote: "Karen wrote: "B3cs wrote: "I love this thread, anyone enjoying it as much as me?"

I'm glad you're enjoying this... I am too!

And to respond to you comment on the tampon scene... I don't think, a..."

I like your response. It is fair.

First of all, I am not an expert by any means on erotica lit. And I also agree that monotonous sex scenes without emotional content can border on the ridiculous. I think that EL James did put time and effort into her character development, I also think that her story had merit. I do agree with Mary's earlier comment that she could have used a good editor to help her with the story's structure.

But with all of that in consideration, it was her first book. Give her a break, she is a new author, and she is learning. She did not expect or intend for it to become as popular as it has. That alone should say something about it. In many ways, I'm sure she is shocked by its popularity.

I get what are saying about Christian's character. The title of the book, actually defines him. After all it means fifty shades of fucked up!! He admits it himself. He warns her to stay away from him throughout the beginning of the story. I think women find him sexy for several reasons, for one, he is young and good looking, he is confident, or maybe I should change that to arrogant, he is rich and successful in business, and he knows exactly what he wants. (or so he says). He is also damaged. And unfortunately many women are drawn to this type of man. They all want to fix him, to be exactly what he needs, to heal him. I think that is his appeal to women. I don't think that they are drawn to his need to abuse. I think that they are drawn to possibility of redemption.

[Mary]

Karen wrote: "Well obviously you are easily offended, while I admit that this is not a turn on... its not THAT bad!! I've read many other things that would fit into the repulsive category, and this is quite mil..."

I agree Karen. I don't see it as a turn on either, but the point was titillation AND Ana getting over inhibitions. I have been married for 28 years. When my husband and I first got married, he cringed at the thought of even buying tampons for me in the grocery store. By the time our daughters were old enough to be menstruating, he had progressed to embarrassing the hell out of them by yelling across the grocery aisle, "super or regular?" Menstruation is a part of life as are the tampons that soak it up. I think many see this as high handed and if there is not enough trust I can see this. However, after years of marriage there can be enough trust that a partner pulling out a tampon is no big deal because embarrassment has ceased to exist. I am glad my husband is cool with everything associated with my body. He may end up nursing me one day when I am old and sick.

[Mary]

B3cs wrote: "Also, just another clarification about my view of 50 shades. I have never said that I have a concern that women who fantasize about this book will run off with an abusive partner. What I have said is that I have concerns that some women (not all), in this forum don't seem to be able to recognise the difference between BDSM and what is abuse, and that does worry me.
."

If people who read this book cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have WAY more problems than reading this book.

[Mary]

Karen wrote: I get what are saying about Christian's character. The title of the book, actually defines him. After all it means fifty shades of fucked up!! He admits it himself. He warns her to stay away from him throughout the beginning of the story. I think women find him sexy for several reasons, for one, he is young and good looking, he is confident, or maybe I should change that to arrogant, he is rich and successful in business, and he knows exactly what he wants. (or so he says). He is also damaged. And unfortunately many women are drawn to this type of man. They all want to fix him, to be exactly what he needs, to heal him. I think that is his appeal to women. I don't think that they are drawn to his need to abuse. I think that they are drawn to possibility of redemption. "

OK...I am going to take a wild psychological stab in the dark here and present the idea that those who LOVE Christian may actually love the idea of freedom of an uninhibited sexual relationship and as Christian is their first protagonist in a sexually charged book, they have settled their sights on him. The modern romance genre has been denigrated since it came on the scene in the 1970s. With over the top book covers and the designation as "bodice ripper," those who read "true literature" would not be caught dead showing a romance cover in public. With erotica it is even more taboo both intellectually as well as socially. As a reader of "true literature" I once held them in similar disdain. I stumbled on Diana Gabaldon's "Outlander" books and got sucked in, surprised to find the genre had changed significantly from the Woodiwiss and Rosemary Rogers books I read in the 70s. Now with e-readers, people can read whatever they want and no one knows what book they are reading. So the fans of her fanfic initially drove the sales and the Twilight fans were enticed and then the books took on a life of their own with millions reading them and finding out about a totally different type of book that applauds sexuality. So many people who have read the books are now asking for similar books in this genre. That will take them to another hero that is different in character than Christian and then another and another...Pretty soon, they will have a wide range of fantasy heroes to choose from and Christian will become a blip on the radar screen.

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "If people who read this book cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have WAY more problems than reading this book."

Just because one would hope others would have more sense than that, doesn't make it so. Look at the people that aspire to be like Snooki, or like Jenna Jameson etc.

Just cause you would hope people would have more sense than that, doesn't make it so.

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "OK...I am going to take a wild psychological stab in the dark here and present the idea that those who LOVE Christian may actually love the idea of freedom of an uninhibited sexual relationship and as Christian is their first protagonist in a sexually charged book, they have settled their sights on him. The modern romance genre has been denigrated since it came on the scene in the 1970s. With over the top book covers and the designation as "bodice ripper," those who read "true literature" would not be caught dead showing a romance cover in public. With erotica it is even more taboo both intellectually as well as socially. As a reader of "true literature" I once held them in similar disdain. I stumbled on Diana Gabaldon's "Outlander" books and got sucked in, surprised to find the genre had changed significantly from the Woodiwiss and Rosemary Rogers books I read in the 70s. Now with e-readers, people can read whatever they want and no one knows what book they are reading. So the fans of her fanfic initially drove the sales and the Twilight fans were enticed and then the books took on a life of their own with millions reading them and finding out about a totally different type of book that applauds sexuality. So many people who have read the books are now asking for similar books in this genre. That will take them to another hero that is different in character than Christian and then another and another...Pretty soon, they will have a wide range of fantasy heroes to choose from and Christian will become a blip on the radar screen. "

See, I love the idea of freedom in an uninhibited sexual relationship. I don't just love the idea, I live the idea. I'd love to see more books that explore the idea become mainstream. But Christian? I struggled to enjoy my lifestyle for a while after reading 50 Shades cause it honestly turned me off. That could just be me though...

[Mary]

Marra Jane wrote: "Just because one would hope others would have more sense than that, doesn't make it so. Look at the people that aspire to be like Snooki, or like Jenna Jameson etc.

Just cause you would hope people would have more sense than that, doesn't make it so.
."

So do you believe that we should censor books because there are some emotionally fragile or immature people out there? I presume you do not and your purpose in debating the value of these books is an attempt to let those without sense be shown an opposing viewpoint. I think that is fine. I also know that sometimes you can try to convince people that what they feel is wrong until you are blue in the face and you will have absolutely no impact. I read the Dune books and immediately decided (tongue in cheek) that I wanted to be a mentat. Did I understand that becoming a human computer was probably outside the realm of possibility? Of course, but I still liked the thought that I could digest large amounts of information and almost immediately spit back out the most logical outcomes of that information. So I might have gone on a book board and gushed that I wanted to be a mentat. That did not mean I thought I could.

[Mary]

Marra Jane wrote: "See, I love the idea of freedom in an uninhibited sexual relationship. I don't just love the idea, I live the idea. I'd love to see more books that explore the idea become mainstream. But Christian? I struggled to enjoy my lifestyle for a while after reading 50 Shades cause it honestly turned me off. That could just be me though... "

But see your lifestyle turns a great many people off even if consensual. Just as homosexual sexuality turns a great many people off and they cannot see past the sexuality to the person who lives in that body. By judging those who liked the type of sexuality in this book, aren't you slightly guilty of the same thing? I simply do not understand that family (the Duggars?) where the husband and wife keep having children (I think there are about 20 at last count). I personally think they are kind of creepy. I would never raise my daughters or sons they way they are raising theirs. I would never be in a relationship where the man was the "head of the household." However, they have the right to free will. They appear to be happy in their situation and who am I to tell them they are wrong?

[Mary]

I was browsing the free kindle books on amazon and came across this:
http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Shades-of-S...

I might have to download it. ;0)

[Karen]

Marra Jane wrote: "Mary wrote: "If people who read this book cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have WAY more problems than reading this book."

Just because one would hope others would have m..."

Wait a minute, there are actually people out there who aspire to be Snookie? God help help us! How come no one has started a blog opposing this??

[Mary]

Karen wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Mary wrote: "If people who read this book cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have WAY more problems than reading this book."

Just because one would hope ..."

OK...who the hell is Snookie?

[Karen]

Mary wrote:
So do you believe that we should censor books because there are some emotionally fragile or immature people out there?

AMEN!

[Karen]

Mary wrote: "Karen wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Mary wrote: "If people who read this book cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have WAY more problems than reading this book."

Just because o..."

AMEN to that too!!!!!!

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Just because one would hope others would have more sense than that, doesn't make it so. Look at the people that aspire to be like Snooki, or like Jenna Jameson etc.

Just cause y..."

I never said to censor books. I'm saying I personally feel that we shouldn't be romanticising abuse.

I never said anyone who likes these books is an idiot or suggested that they should not have been published. I have only stated I did not like them and I believe them to be poorly written and a poor portrayal of people who live that lifestyle.

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "See, I love the idea of freedom in an uninhibited sexual relationship. I don't just love the idea, I live the idea. I'd love to see more books that explore the idea become mainst..."

I'm not judging anyone for enjoying the books. I'm saying that personally tr way she portrayed BDSM is not accurate or enjoyable to me

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "OK... who the hell is Snookie?"

Stay ignorant as long as you can! You're one of the lucky ones!!!

[Marra]

Karen wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Mary wrote: "If people who read this book cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, then they have WAY more problems than reading this book."

Just because one would hope ..."

Sadly yes, there are people that do want to be just like her.

[Mary]

Marra Jane wrote: "I'm not judging anyone for enjoying the books. I'm saying that personally tr way she portrayed BDSM is not accurate or enjoyable to me "

...and I can appreciate this. I just have a tough time with people thinking that because someone likes a book the automatic assumption is they want to LIVE that book. The Harry Potter books first came out when my kids were in elementary school. So many people wanted not just to discourage kids from reading those books but to ban them altogether because they were afraid that the kids would suddenly turn into Wiccans or Satan worshipers. Even kids as young as 8 or 9 years old understood there was no real store that sold polyjuice potion. Kids that young understood the books were fiction. We had millions of kids wearing Harry Potter glasses with lightning bolts on their heads, but I seriously doubt there was any wholesale defection from Christianity to a pagan religion because of those books. I think we need to give the readers just a tad more credit for being able to distinguish between a fantasy person and real life.

[Rebecca]

Honestly, can you not see why some women would come away from these books and say, I am distrurbed about the relationship of these characters? BDSM aside, fantasy aside.

Let me put it another way, if you had a friend that was in a non-consensual controlling relationship on any level mild/moderate etc (and I'm sure everyone have known someone who has) Would you understand where she came from if she said to you. "You know these books hit too close to home for me, the lines are too blurred, I can't imagine why anyone could like Christian Grey" Even though it is a fantasy! Could you imagine why she may feel strongly that this romanticizes a unhealthy relationship?

Food for thought: What would your response be to that Would you say, "hey I can get where your coming from ", or would you say to her. "Grow up it's a fantasy and what you are saying to me is insulting to women and you're judging me sexually?"

I don't think you would! Some people just feel that way even if they havn't been in that type of relationship, it's not judging your preference, it's stating their's and the reasons why!

[Henry]

A couple of items of interest:

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19013...

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15...

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "I'm not judging anyone for enjoying the books. I'm saying that personally tr way she portrayed BDSM is not accurate or enjoyable to me "

...and I can appreciate this. I just ha..."

Please show me where I said "every person who reads this book will want to find a Christian Grey of their very own."

Wait, you can't cause I didn't say that? I only said that there will be girls out there who will seek this out, not every girl. Oh, ok. Fair call.

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "Honestly, can you see why some women would come away from these books and say, I am distrurbed about the relationship of these characters? BDSM aside, fantasy aside.

Let me put it another way, if ..."

B3cs, I love you.

[Marra]

Also, in hindsight, I think I may have been a bit snarky today, and for that I apologise. Not in the best of moods.

[Mary]

B3cs wrote: "Let me put it another way, if you had a friend that was in a non-consensual controlling relationship on any level mild/moderate etc (and I'm sure everyone have known someone who has) Would you understand where she came from if she said to you. "You know these books hit too close to home for me, the lines are too blurred, I can't imagine why anyone could like Christian Grey" Even though it is a fantasy! Could you imagine why she may feel strongly that this romanticizes a unhealthy relationship?"

I guess I just see literature differently than you do. I love Wuthering Heights. I love the character of Heathcliff, but not because I want to have a screwed up character like Heathcliff in my real life. He was complex, emotionally stunted, the victim of abuse and neglect and the love that he had for Cathy was unhealthy. I do not think that a book like Wuthering Heights is going to make anyone think that a controlling, emotionally insecure man is their one true love. Yet this book is a classic.

I DO get where you are coming from. I get that you are worried that some impressionable, giggly girl who thinks Christian is all that is going to open herself up to the possibility of an abusive relationship. I just do not buy that this is a danger to the vast majority of women.

[Mary]

Marra Jane wrote: "Wait, you can't cause I didn't say that? I only said that there will be girls out there who will seek this out, not every girl. Oh, ok. Fair call.
"

I did not accuse you of that Marra Jane. Mys statement was hyperbolic. If you feel like I did, then I apologize. I just do not think there ought to be book nannies.

[Henry]

More food for thought:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/...

on the other hand:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nationa...

and from Britain:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/art...

[Karen]

Henry wrote: "More food for thought:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/...

on the other hand:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/n..."

You've got to love a media hound.

[Sofia]

Marra Jane wrote: "I'm not easily offended, so it takes a lot to gross me out, but a guy pulling out a girls tampon, I kind of want to chuck every time I think about it."

LOL! I kind of thought 'ugh' but it didn't necessarily gross me out, either. I just feel like, you know, nobody is taking out my tampon but ME! lol

[Hayley]

I'm loving reading through this thread :D

On top of everything that people have already pointed out in the negative with regards to the writing style, character development (or lack thereof) etc I find I like to be able to relate in some way to at least one of the main characters of a book I'm reading. I was doing well with Ana being a bookworm but that really was about it. Even as a teenage girl and with my low self esteem it wasn't so low that I could relate to her considering giving up so much control to another person.

On saying that, there are impressionable young people out there who aren't fully matured mentally or emotionally and who can find ways to get around the 'don't read this if under a certain age' thinking quite easily through friends, online ordering and parents who aren't necessarily as on top of things as that. Heck, my 16 yr old cousin has probably read it and I know she'll be the type to go out looking for her own Christian Grey with her spoilt teenage mind in full 'head in cloud' mode (it'll be the having stuff bought for her that'll drag her in).

So whilst the 'vast majority' understand this is fiction I do accept and concern myself over the minority who go 'Ooh, I want that in my life' and we should find these unfortunate few and offer them the therapy that their fictional heroine so obviously requires ;P

Disclaimer: This does not mean I'm condoning the censoring of books, please do not come back at me with that argument.

[Erin]

The writing is not great, but it's not absolute trash either. It's mediocre at best. I personally only read it because a friend told me not to. Also, while I understand that it is a work of fiction, the ending of the first book does shine a very negative light on the BDSM community. That was the only thing I didn't like. I think that's where a lot of others are coming from too.

[Christine]

Indeed! But I'd add if he pulls your tampon out for you, RUN!!! Easily the most repulsive thing I have ever read.

Interesting. If that's the most repulsive thing you've ever read - you may want to avoid reading the following books:

Anne Rice's novels
Thomas Harris's Silence of the Lambs, and Hannible (involves cannibalism)
American Psycho by Bret Easten Ellis
Henry Miller
Marquis de Sade books
The Story of O
Sleeping Beauty Triology
95% of horror novels
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
All of Stephen King's novels - particularly Carrie
Definitely avoid the movies - The Hangover, There's Something About Mary (she accidently uses his sperm as hair jel)

Honestly, why is pulling out someone's tampon and having sex with them any different than having sex during your period? Is it pulling out the tampon?

It clearly didn't bug me, because I don't even remember that scene.

This is proof that when we read a book, any book, we bring everything about ourselves to the experience. Interacting with the book. So, in essence, none of us read the same book. We never read the same book.
That's wickedly cool in a way, but it does make discussion at times frustrating.

[Hayley]

Christine wrote: "Indeed! But I'd add if he pulls your tampon out for you, RUN!!! Easily the most repulsive thing I have ever read.

Interesting. If that's the most repulsive thing you've ever read - you may want t..."

I think there's something out there that'll repulse someone, somewhere and just create a line/reaction that differs from everyone else's. I have read most of the books mentioned (really enjoyed Thomas Harris) but the tampon scene had me 'squicked out'. TBH tho', I get a bit 'hmmm' with the idea of sex during that time - so yeah, that's just my mind going 'Nooooo!' :S

[Christine]

I think you're right.

For me it's the scene in There's Something About Mary - took me completely out of the movie. Where Mary accidently uses Ben Stiller's sperm as hair jell.
Also highly offensive.

Then of course I read the description on Wiki of
the movie the Human Centipede (big mistake) and read the novel American Psycho..(also big mistake) and finally the sex scene where the word "squick" derived from. Seriously, once you read that...pulling a tampon out doesn't seem to be a big deal not even worthy of an eyebrow raise.

[Hayley]

Human Centipede - was shown the trailer by a friend and just went 'No.. no no.. no no no no' and then same friend bought the DVD - I think there's something seriously wrong there :S

I do not knwo of this scene where squick was used... quite worrying as I've heard the word around for a loooong time :S

[Jan]

You are entitled to your opinion but to tell people not to read it is ridiculous. You can skip the sex scenes if they bother you (though they have a purpose) but it is a beautiful love story.

[Lynn]

Autumn wrote: "Aliki wrote: "why people read fifty shades of grey ,when they know that is a sex book ,and after they make bad comments for it?i think that everybody want to read for sex but they dont want people ..."

This was me. Some friends talked about how they couldn't put it down, and I had an inkling there was an erotic element, but I didn't really do my research before I bought it. Holy hot sex, Batman! The writing was bad, really bad, and there are some continuity issues, but I am a sucker for romance and I did like the story of good girl trying to redeem bad boy. I ended up just flipping through the sex scenes, because after the first few, they all kind of ran together. Made for a quick reading! LOL

[Mary]

Hayley wrote: "So whilst the 'vast majority' understand this is fiction I do accept and concern myself over the minority who go 'Ooh, I want that in my life' and we should find these unfortunate few and offer them the therapy that their fictional heroine so obviously requires ;P

Disclaimer: This does not mean I'm condoning the censoring of books, please do not come back at me with that argument. ."

;0)

Don't you think that young women who would run off to try and find some type of "Christian" would also be more likely to engage in immature or irresponsible behavior anyway? I am thinking about the old argument of "does bringing something out in the open encourage it or does it take it out of the shadows so we can deal with it?" The issue of "cutting" for example. A number of books were written about people who cut themselves to deal with stress. The authors were criticized for writing the books because they might put ideas in some teens' heads that might not have engaged in this behavior otherwise. Girls and women have been getting involved in abusive relationships pretty much forever. The fact that this is an issue in FSoG can be viewed in two ways (IMO): a) it puts ideas in impressionable minds, or b) it brings the issue out in the open for debates such as this one. I (obviously) prefer (b) although both are probably true. These books provide a venue for discussing the dangers of letting another control one mentally, emotionally and/or physically.

[Annette]

Nicole wrote: "I think that people know it's a sex book but they underestimate how MUCH sex is in the book. I have read plenty of books that didn't have sex every other page and they made great romance novels. I ..."

OMG! I couldn't agree with you more. Every sex scene was the same except what he used to restrain her with. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the books but I was glad when I was done. The parts I actually liked the best was when they emailed each other, it didn't seem like the auther was going for shock valve.

[Rebecca]

Don't you think that young women who would run off to try and find some type of "Christian" would also be more likely to engage in immature or irresponsible behavior anyway?

Yes, I'm not about banning a book, I'm also not about censoring, limiting exposure etc etc.

My points are:
-I think this is a badly written book, so much so that I found that I couldn't finish the series. I think the book is badly written because:
-It is highly repetitive in it's use of dialogue, phrases and scenes.
-The characters are underdeveloped and dim, they are boring, and I cannot invest in them either emotionally or intellectually.
-I don't necessarily have to like characters in a book, but if I am to be drawn into a 3 book series there needs to be a greater level of complexity if it is going to sustain my interest.
-It doesn't offer me anthing new, except the urge to rant about how absurd I found this book (and for that I would gladly give it 5 stars haha)
-The author frequently blurs the lines between control/BDSM and abuse and attempts to explain it away with what I believe are trite, sterotyped and inadequate explanations.

Now about the characters:
- Ana's initial attraction and then her reason to stay with Grey is in my belief superficial and lacks the layers of emotion that would come with the type of complex relationship James is trying to achieve in her books.
-Grey is a controlling stalker that I believe has not been drawn with any kind of emotional depth to make me care if he can be redeemed (I do get the redemption thing), just not with him.
-Telling me that he is drop dead georgeous, has a lot of money and good in the sack just doesn't cut it. If James wants me to get me into bed with him (because I think that what these types of books ask the reader to do) she has to give me a little more than that. What James has actually given me are a whole lot of reasons why I don't want to get into bed with him!

So for these reasons and many others, this book has failed for me as: an interesting plot, an erotica, a piece of writing, a level or enjoyment. It is also for these reasons that I cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of Christian Grey.

Now I agree that she is a new author, but should I cut her some slack for this reason. I don't think so, she has put her books out into the public arena and in doing so she will be critiqued. She is doing very well with them, I don't think she is going to be overly concerned that people like myself are slamming her book. And to her personally I would say well I didn't like your book but good on you for getting it out there and much success to you.

And I would agree that people should read it before making up their mind, I'm not having this discussion to convince people not to read it. I am having this discussion because I feel strongly that it is a god awful book and I'm telling you my reasons for thinking so - just like others feel compelled to express why they loved it so much.

[Rebecca]

Marra Jane wrote:"B3cs, I love you."

@Marra Jane

;) xo

[Karen]

B3cs wrote:
Yes, I'm not about b..."

I am definitely impressed by your passion on the subject, and I mean that in earnest. I think what surprises me the most is the depth to which you and others are willing to exert your energies into disparaging the books.

Going back through this feed alone, you could put together a dissertation on the subject of how worthless these books are. So my question is, why is this sparking such an outrage?

If the story is so weak, and the characters so vexing, why are we worried about them affecting the readers? Who knows why certain works get so much press, be it good or bad. If they are so obviously feckless, why bother giving them our notice at all. If Christian Grey is so unappealing to you, why do you worry that others are going to want to jump into bed with him.

Many of you have said that you do not support the censuring of books, but you continue to express your concern for the reader, and their ability to make wise and moral choices after reading these books. That is the entire basis for censure. If someone wants to invest in a silk tie or a pair of handcuffs after reading these books, that is their freedom. They still have to consent to be restrained by them. (also their right). I think the likelihood of this is low, but really what does it matter?

There will always be a few crazed people out there who go overboard over this type of hype. But maybe, we shouldn't put the blame on the books, perhaps we should fault the media for the multitude of sensational stories that surround the book's popularity.

[Rebecca]

Karen wrote: "B3cs wrote:
Yes, I'm not about b..."

I am definitely impressed by your passion on the subject, and I mean that in earnest. I think what surprises me the most is the depth to which you and others..."

Why am I putting so much energy into this? Quite simply because it amuses me. I enjoy talking about books. I like to break them down and analize them, I like to hear what other think about them too.

I know that there are dedicated book clubs on this site, I am a member of a few of them, but I also see the discussion boards as a type of book club too. It's a place where people can talk about a book in detail.

This is one of the books I have most recently read, I didn't like it, but I would still like to talk about it while it is still fresh in my mind, just as I would a book I really like. I enjoy the discussion aspect whether I liked the book or not.

I often find the discussion afterwards one of the most enjoyable parts of digesting a book. I have a few friends that I can sit and talk to for hours about why we liked/disliked a book character etc. - Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, above all it is fun!

As mentioned above I would give this book 5 stars for it's discussion value! Disliked the book, love the themes it has raised in this thread! I guess alot of people may think this book makes me angry because I have been discussing it so passionately. If I am passionate in my responses it is a reflection of how much I like to discuss books. It is not anger towards the book or towards the author. I am sustaining my part of the discussion because I think there continues to be interesting themes raised about 50 shades.I Hope that makes sense. :D