dont like it ..dont read it Showing 201-250 of 1,896

[Jenna]

and werent u just agreeing with someone about how ppl shouldnt be personally attacking ppl??? it appears thats what u just done when u singled my comment out

[Cornelia]

I've read this... I can't say book yet... when it was not a book but twilight fanfiction. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the twilight fandom, but I tell you it's huge. I was browsing one of the most popular twilight fanfiction sites, and I noticed the banner for this story, it was then titled "Master of Universe." As you all know, no matter what Bella looks like, 99% Edward looks like Robert Pattinson. And I don't know if you've noticed, but he's a very handsome man and very photogenic. That being said, I couldn't stop looking at the banner and the blinkie; they had amazing pictures of Robert Pattinson and very beautiful sexy pictures and manips of him with a brown-haired girl.
So, I started reading the story, as a fanfic. I really liked it. It was quite steamy and it introduced readers (women) to a romantic kind of BDSM. But most of all, the hero, Christian (or Edward), who looked like Robert Pattinson, was a very tortured soul with deep childhood trauma. The heroine, Ana (or Bella) was a normal, brown haired, brown eyed girl, who she didn't think was pretty. Her best friend was a blonde, rich hottie with high self esteem, in contrast to Ana. The reason I mention her best friend, is to show the contrast between them and how plain Ana felt next to Kate (or Rosalie, who was described in the twilight series as the most beautiful woman ever). Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who is also filthy rich, is always in control, could have any woman he would desire, is a very sexual being and with great skills at that *wink*, despite his accomplishments and status has a very kind soul, is very protective and very tortured and only YOU can heal his poor soul...
Getting back to reading it, I used to love reading every chapter as it was updated online. In fact, I was at work when it would update and I couldn’t not read the chapter even there. There’s a huge difference though, between reading a book and fanfiction online. When you read a WIP fanfiction it takes at least one week between updates, which means that everyday life and maybe other stories or books come in this timeframe. Reading a steamy sexy scene in every chapter doesn’t feel redundant online, but in a book, it does. Because I forgot to mention that the book is exactly as the fanfiction. They’re having sex ALL the time! When I was reading the book I skipped most sex scenes. I have to agree with one of the reviewers above (I’m sorry, I don’t remember who you are) there are only so many ways you can describe a sex scene, especially between the same individuals. So yes, I got bored at that. I expected the book to be shorter, having cut most sex scenes.
Melanie mentions that Christian Grey is like Edward Cullen, abusive. Yes, he is like Edward Cullen, but I wouldn’t say abusive; maybe because in my mind the word abusive means beating the shit out of someone, when they don’t want it. But I would definitely call them both very controlling. Also Christian Grey is a replica of what Edward Cullen would be if he wasn’t a vampire. Let me explain: if you kept the tortured soul and self hatred and loneliness despite having a bunch of people who love you and feeling of unworthiness of Edward Cullen, but removed his vampire status and desire for blood, what do you get? Why, it’s Christian Grey! They are both extremely beautiful (all women stare at them and drool over them), they’re very confident, they’re very knowledgeable and they both play piano! And Ana? She’s Bella Swan without the supernatural.
So yes, the characters are pretty much borrowed, and the story is a romance story with a bit of angst, a lot of sex, a lot of love and wonderful places and activities for you to imagine. I would have loved to see the Sound from Escala… But, isn’t this the recipe for success?
These books have been read at first by twilight fans. I was very much tempted to order the books when they first came out, when the publisher was the Writer’s Coffee Shop (a fanfiction site as well), but I admit I was afraid about people commenting on me reading erotica (yes, people it is erotica, if there’s mention of this “His fingers run through my pubic hair, over my sex, and he rubs the palm of his hand against my clitoris” it is most definitely erotica). Other women weren’t as bashful as me, obviously and got the books, hence the huge success. I wouldn’t say that EL James got to be a best selling author because of her producer status, but because of how very much popular the story was a fanfiction.
My personal opinion is that this is a fun read. But I wouldn’t call it a literary masterpiece, especially with how many times Ana’s inner goddess appears…
As for the “don’t read it” advice, I have to disagree. Everyone needs to make up their minds on something, especially on books with so many haters and lovers at the some time. I mean, if it can evoke such strong emotions, I think the writer must have done something right…

Thanks for reading my rant.

[Rebecca]

Karen wrote:This is yet another example of taking the argument to a personal level. It is one thing to critique a book for its technical faults, and it is another to simply fling mud!!!

In response to: Jenna writing "i have to say this is the most heated discussion bored ive read its gettin good -my inner goddess sits indian style on her chase lounge and eats popcorn- haha lmao sorry i couldnt resist..."

I'm sorry Karen, I don't understand how this can be seen as a personal comment, or flinging mud. Can you explain how this comment is in any way offensive, because I am confused.

[Karen]

Wow, I think I just threw gasoline on a fire. I'm just surprised that this book has gotten you guys so fired up. Why waste your time on such rubbish!! Spend your time critiquing books of merit. If you didnt like it ....move on. I'm sure your time would be much better spent.

[Rebecca]

Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who is also filthy rich, is always in control, could have any woman he would desire, is a very sexual being and with great skills at that *wink*, "

Sorry no, I could not identify with Ana, honestly.

Can I understand a fantasy of a fabulously rich and handsome man who is magic in the sack? - Yes, absolutely! But if he opens his mouth and what he is saying is nonesense and his behaviour is ultra controlling, that's where the illusion comes tumbling down for me.

As for the abuse, this is where I strongly disagree. Sure he's not beating her up, but there are different types of abuse, there is physical, emotional, neglect, there is even financial abuse. BDSM aside (I have no problem with role play in and at some level out of the bedroom) many of Christian's behaviours are unacceptable and are in fact a form of abuse, perhaps it is a subtle abuse, but abuse nonetheless.

As for Ana granted she makes some mild protests , but she doesn't really stand up to him, not in my view. For me it is not Christian I feel sorry for its Ana. Sure Christian has been abused, that is horrible, but it is Ana who is still being abused - by Christian.

I think what bothers me the most about some of the fanbase of 50 shades, many women (not all) don't appear to recognise that there is abuse happening in this book, somehow they have romantisized it into "he's broken, he was abused, he's a troubled soul, he's a bad boy" etc etc.

If you are a reader of these books and you have said I liked these books despite Christian's behaviour towards Ana, this does not apply to you, because as a reader you have identified that these books are about an unhealthy relationship. But if as a reader you try to tell me that this is a romance, that Christian is not abusive he is just troubled, I'm sorry, I find this really upsetting.

[Melanie]

B3cs wrote: "Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who is also filthy rich, is alway..."

I agree with EVERYTHING you are saying.

Also... Why is a tortured soul like Christian excused from his behaviour simply because he is rich and handsome? We wouldn't excuse him if he were a poor ugly homeless man, would we?

Also, if his sexual preferences come from an origin of abuse, does that sound like a choice he made for himself? What kind of statement does that make about people who actually choose and enjoy a BDSM relationship?

I think this thread is ruining Christian as a sex symbol for some who loved the book by exposing what he really is, thus removing some (or all) of his sex appeal. Does anyone feel that way at all?

[Cornelia]

B3cs wrote: "Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who is also filthy rich, is alway..."

Maybe I should have been more clear: girls that at some point, mainly during their teenage years, have felt like plain Janes and have had low self esteem, just like Ana. On that, I believe that women readers have identified with her. Besides, when you read a book or watch a movie, you always subconsciously try to find a characteristic of the hero/heroine that you can identify with, otherwise you will lose interest. At least that’s how I view it. So, yes, Ana’s insecurity reminded me my teenage years. Also her love for Christian (I’m not examining here whether she actually loves him, or there’s something else involved) is another thing I identify with. When you really love a person you will do and accept a lot of things in order to secure their happiness.

Whether Ana loves him or not, I am not 100% sure. In most cases I think it’s her desire to save him. Most people have a desire to save and usually change their partners. I’m not saying there are no exceptions to the rule. Also, this is a highly addictive relationship. She is addicted to his persona (sexual prowess, good looks, confidence, control, etc.)

I do get your point on what abusive is and I agree with that, but that is also why I explained that when I think about this term, physical abuse is what comes to my mind.

As for their relationship, yes, Christian could be considered as abusive. However, you should also consider that Ana, even though a virgin and quite innocent at first, has shown she has an inclining to masochism, which is very compatible with Christian’s sadism (he admits it himself, even his doctor at some point). Ana is shocked when she learns this, but in the end of the second book she offers herself to him under those terms. Furthermore, take into account that Ana was always controlled, before Christian it was her best friend.
Towards the end I’m not certain Ana is still abused by Christian. I think they have found a way to compromise. Isn’t this what all relationships are? Still, I agree this is not a healthy relationship. But I still like the books and the story and even though it was a weird relationship, it was very interesting and romantic, if you think of how Christian changed. Kate and Elliot’s relationship was more normal and on more equal terms and there didn’t seem to be any abuse whatsoever, but who would want to read about them? It would be boring.

[Jenna]

B3cs wrote: "Karen wrote:This is yet another example of taking the argument to a personal level. It is one thing to critique a book for its technical faults, and it is another to simply fling mud!!!

In respon..."

b3cs my point exactly lol not a personal comment/attack

[Jenna]

why do u think its rubbish Karen? You rated it 5 stars

[Cornelia]

Melanie wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who is also filthy r..."

If he was a poor and ugly man, we wouldn't be having this conversation. No one would have read the books, or the fanfiction.
I don't think these books make any statements though. They're just a fun read. I'm sure many people living in BDSM relationships don't have abusive pasts, and I'm sure not everyone that has had a horrible childhood decides to pursue only BDSM relationships. I think the author tried to justify Christian's choice in BDSM.

[Jenna]

i agree with Cornelia i think she was tryin to justify it and to help add a more interesting twist to the story. There has to be something there to peak ur interest and ive read alot of ppl said they continuened on with the book to get deeper into christians mind to know why he did the things he did i mean thats really the only reason why i continued the read i wanted to know what happened next i wanted to better understand it. It does leave little cliff hangers making u want to read on even if u dont like it

[Shawn]

I loved all three books!!! Were they literary master pieces; no. However, I was entertained, the author made me love the characters and I couldn't wait to get to the next book. At the end of the day sometimes it ok to enjoy a good trashy novel :D

[Melanie]

Cornelia wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who is also filthy r..."

I have to be honest, if it had been more about Kate and Elliott, I would have kept reading. That's actually exactly what I said to someone on the weekend...

I was by no means my high school prom queen. I actually indentify with Ana in many ways. She is a bit of a TomBoy, not a party girl, loves reading, came from simple beginnings, etc. I think that's precisely why I got sooo upset when they have sex the first time after all the BS with the contracts and an NDA! I actually think that's why I am still more upset than I ever have been from reading a book. I was even more pissed when I found out she's a virgin who doesn't masturbate. I actually stopped reading in the middle of the sex scene... I would NEVER do that (most people wouldn't)... lol

I didn't finish the series, but I hope at the end that she realizes she's acting like a loser and just leaves him. That is the only thing that would redeem her character for me.

Also, if anyone can send me a link to a good summary, I would like to get a quick version of what happens. I couldn't find anything...

[Jenna]

actually i agree id like to know what happens, but i cant bring myself to read the last book

[Melanie]

Cornelia wrote: "Melanie wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely handsome man, who ..."

You're right, no one would have read it. And that's fine. I realize most people are superficial and vain to certain degrees (myself included).

But I'm still talking about the abuse and anyone who wont admit to it. Why is anyone accepting abuse and feeling sorry for Christian because of who he is? That's all I'm saying. Call it like it is. It's fine if you enjoy the story, but it's a story about abuse.

It's like reading reading Dracula and talking about everything EXCEPT the fact that he is a vampire!

[Cornelia]

Melanie wrote: "Cornelia wrote: "Melanie wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Cornelia wrote: Now, tell me how many of you (I include myself) didn't identify with Ana. How many of you wouldn't love the attention of an extremely h..."

see that's where you're mistaken, she gets into the relationship with him DESPITE his issues and abusive behavior.

as for the last book, have you read the first 2? she has agreed to marry him. she has tamed him, sort of. they find a balance, but other shit happens. do you remember her boss at SIP? Jack Hyde? yeah, it turns out he's more than Ana's ex boss...

i forgot, we talk about the characters and their relationship, but no one speaks of the writing style. i really really liked the story, i couldn't stop reading while a fanfiction and even now that it's a book i reread the whole thing. but now that it's a book i would expect that the pov jumping would have improved. i mean, the books are are in first person and Ana's narrations, but the prologue in the second and third book are Christian's point of view in third person, while the second ended with 3rd person pov showing Jack. i expected these things to have been improved. either not show them by changning pov, or have Christian and Jack respective talk about these things to Ana.

[Emily]

i'm pretty sure talking about what people can and can't spend their time commenting and discussing is not what the goodreads forum is about. lol, i want to read more posts about this book and everyone's personal response to this book.

but like i said, i just wish that so much more time and editing went into this book. for the most part i find it mindblowing how successful this book is.
someone else made a comment about how they actually read it in its fanfiction form. i probably would've really enjoyed this as a fanfiction, but i expect more from a book. since i am a frequent fanfiction reader i can see how this book is so appealing and enjoyable to a lot of people, but i cannot get behind saying this book is good.

edit to add in: i also really can't get behind how bdsm isn't really treated like a fetish in this book, but almost like a disease. something to be cured of if it's not really light play. i like how it's making more people think about and think about getting into kinkier sex, but the way it's made out with these certain character is discomforting.

[Rebecca]

Melanie wrote: "What kind of statement does that make about people who actually choose and enjoy a BDSM relationship? "

Agreed! I would be interested in hearing someone who practices BDSM's view on this. But perhaps that question is too personal. Lol!

Cornelia wrote: " Maybe I should have been more clear: girls that at some point, mainly during their teenage years, have felt like plain Janes and have had low self esteem, just like Ana. On that, I believe that women readers have identified with her. "

This is true, and yes I can relate to these feeling and emotions too, especially at the start of a new romance. But, in the case of Ana her inner monologue of insecurities is so exagerated that I feel as though I need to give her a cuddle and book her in for some counselling. Quite frankly, I don't think she should be getting into a relationship with anyone until (and to use a phrase from the book) she sorts her shit out! LOL!

And I also felt that perhaps she is attracted to masochistic lifestyle more than she likes to admit to herself. But honestly, given her self esteem issues. I don't know if BDSM is the right lifestyle choice for her! LOL!

But I know that I am nitpicking here! Haha. And I do appreciate you sharing your views! :D

[Karen]

Jenna wrote: "why do u think its rubbish Karen? You rated it 5 stars"

I was being sarcastic!

[Cornelia]

B3cs wrote: "Melanie wrote: "What kind of statement does that make about people who actually choose and enjoy a BDSM relationship? "

Agreed! I would be interested in hearing someone who practices BDSM's view o..."

I was actually thinking about Ana's psychological state a few moments ago. I agree with you she is in real need of councelling.
Think about it, she's a college graduate that is living with the rich and drop dead gorgeous best friend, who is very much like Christian (she tells her what to wear, she chastises her, she has very strong opinions that wants to enforce on Ana). She also has a hair-brained mother and a father (okay, step-father, in reality father figure) that never showed her true affection. She knew she was loved, but she never felt that love like most children. She took care of them both.
Now, enter Christian, a dominating (not in the BDSM sense) male, who is very much controlling, and is telling her what to do all the time. He doesn't show her his love just like her parents, even though she knows he loves her. In fact, a part of poor little Ana has found a dad in Christian. Has finally found someone that will take care of her. Add to that her inherent masochistic side and you have the reason why these two people are in a relationship.
I believe that because of her self esteem issues she doesn't want to label her sexual relationship with Christian as BDSM. She offers herself to him in the 2nd book and wants to get with him in his red room of pain, but she doesn't want to be a submissive. I don't know, these two are starting to give me a headache lol

Emily, you are absolutely right. I read the fanfiction, and I expected the book to be more refined.

During the period the author was writing the fanfiction, there was a booming in BDSM stories in twilight fandom. I assume (I don't know her personally, nor have we ever spoken online) that she was affected by this and chose to write a story about a beautiful guy and a shy girl. She wanted though his BDSM choice of lifestyle to have a reason (unlike the other stories that treated it just like Emily says as a fetish not a disease) and she chose his abusive childhood. I also have doubts about how much can a 5-year old remember. I believe she chose a 5-year old as children at that age are very cute (in my humble opinion), but I personally don't remember much of what I live to see at 5. But then again Christian is a very intelligent man. Another, issue, he was extremely malnourished, from the day he was born till the age of 5. I'm no doctor and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that that is the most crucial age for the development of the human body. Again, I might be talking BS on this topic. Now, getting back to BDSM, he was introduced to it at the age of 16 by a friend of his mother's, such a cliche, the teenager that lusts on the older beautiful woman. How can a boy/man be a submissive (relinquishing all control) and then turn into a dominant (desiring all control)? It would be nice to have an educated point of view on this, but as you said, I don't think anyone would respond.
There are so many holes in these books. But still they are a fun fast-paced read, because you don't actually see their flaws but you like them despite them.
As for Kate and Elliot, it would be boring. Rich, beautiful girl meets rich, handsome boy, they fall in love and have rich beautiful babies. No interest. They're too tame, and characters that are rich, beautiful and normal never evoke that aawww poor thing factor.

oops sorry, again ranting... :D

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "Melanie wrote: "What kind of statement does that make about people who actually choose and enjoy a BDSM relationship? "

Agreed! I would be interested in hearing someone who practices BDSM's view o..."

Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested.

[Cornelia]

Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Melanie wrote: "What kind of statement does that make about people who actually choose and enjoy a BDSM relationship? "

Agreed! I would be interested in hearing someone who practices ..."


How can a boy (at the age of 15) be a submissive (relinquishing all control) and then turn into a dominant (in his twenties) (desiring all control)?

[Rebecca]

Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here come questions:

-Do you think James does an injustice to people who practice BDSM as a healthy part of their sexual relationship by explaining off Christian's desires as a result of abuse?

- Do you think BDSM is an explantion for the level of control Christain exercises over Ana? And I'm not referring necessarily to the items listed in the contract, but the other ways in which he controls Ana, ie the stalking behaviors and the like.

[Rebecca]

Cornelia wrote:Think about it, she's a college graduate that is living with the rich and drop dead gorgeous best friend, who is very much like Christian (she tells her what to wear, she chastises her, she has very strong opinions that wants to enforce on Ana). She also has a hair-brained mother and a father (okay, step-father, in reality father figure) that never showed her true affection. She knew she was loved, but she never felt that love like most children. She took care of them both.
Now, enter Christian, a dominating (not in the BDSM sense) male, who is very much controlling, and is telling her what to do all the time. He doesn't show her his love just like her parents, even though she knows he loves her. In fact, a part of poor little Ana has found a dad in Christian. Has finally found someone that will take care of her. "

...but does he really take care of her? Perhaps he does in the bedroom? Haha

Actually, I like your character analysis. And having read your breakdown on the influences Ana's friends and family have had on this girl I am more convinced that this girl is indeed in need of some professional help. She needs to stop letting people walk all over her.

Perhaps it would have been better if her sexual education was to become a dom, get some "girl power" under her (leather) belt. I'm not sure being a submissive is the best thing for a young girl who has such a fragile ego. :)

[Marra]

Cornelia wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Melanie wrote: "What kind of statement does that make about people who actually choose and enjoy a BDSM relationship? "

Agreed! I would be interested in hearing someone who practices ..."


How can a boy (at the age of 15) be a submissive (relinquishing all control) and then turn into a dominant (in his twenties) (desiring all control)? "

That I can't really comment on. I mean, it's not unheard of for a sub to turn dom and vice versa. But I haven't personally experienced that, so unfortunately I can't give you a proper answer sorry!!!

But, as I said, it's definitely not unheard of.

[Rebecca]

Melanie wrote:I think this thread is ruining Christian as a sex symbol for some who loved the book by exposing what he really is, thus removing some (or all) of his sex appeal. Does anyone feel that way at all? "

One can only hope! :D

I don't want to take away anyone's joy in the book, but I do hope that this discussion will give people an alternative view on the perception of Christian Grey as the great romantic hero he seems to have been placed by some women who have read this book.

[Cornelia]

B3cs wrote: "...but does he really take care of her? Perhaps he does in the bedroom? Haha"

he does actually, in his own way. He makes sure she is safe (bodyguards and safest car), she is fed (he keeps telling her to eat -- on a more funny note, I wish I could forget to eat like Ana, gah! --, she is healthy (OBgyn doctor, even though it is for his personal reasons, but still the end result is the same), she is beautiful (the best clothes money can buy), she has a nice safe work environment (he bought SIP!), she is entertained (boathouses etc.), and of course he makes sure she is sexually satisfied. In fact, he seems to know her needs without her even voicing them, and much more without her even thinking of them.

Now that I think about it, she does go to councelling in some way. She asks Christian to visit his councellor, and when she meets him, she starts talking about Christian, but then she realizes that she has issues as well, but she never explores further.

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here come questions:

-Do you think James does an injustice to people who practice BDSM as a healthy part of their sexual relationship by explaining off Christian's desires as a result of abuse?

- Do you think BDSM is an explantion for the level of control Christain exercises over Ana? And I'm not referring necessarily to the items listed in the contract, but the other ways in which he controls Ana, ie the stalking behaviors and the like. "

I do believe she's done an injustice to the BDSM community. I was never beaten as a child and here I am today. Sure, I believe there are a few events in my life that have contributed to this, but none of them would have caused it, but I don't think it's ok to use abuse to justify the fetish. Why do people have shoe fetishes? Because they were smothered with shoes as a child? Cause they were deprived of shoes as a child? No. It's just because. Sure, it's probably easier to pinpoint why someone likes BDSM than shoes, but same principle. It's just how people are.
So yeah, passing his fetish off as a result of abuse, not ok.

As to your second question, I had to laugh when I realised that he was the dom in the book, based on his behaviour. Traditionally (although not always) you'll find people that have obsessive control in their life tend to (but again, not always) be subs and vice versa. What you see on the outside is generally the opposite to what you see behind closed doors. So I struggle to see how he gets off on being a dom. It's more or less the equivalent to walking around all day with a vibrator up your vag (sorry about the crassness) and then expecting your husband to still be able to get you off at night. (I don't know if I need to explain this bit further, if so, let me know.)

But I will say this. I'm a sub, but I do not tolerate, at all, being treated like one outside of the bedroom. And I've yet to find a guy that will dominate me in bed and attempt to do so in our actual lives as well. A BDSM relationship is no excuse for inequality in your personal life or to be controlling or to have someone control you.

[Alisha Taylor]

Ridiculous waste of time. Very poorly written. When all is said and done i just wasn't impressed

[Rebecca]

Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here come questions:

-Do you think James does an injustice to people wh..."

That's really interesting Marra, thankyou for sharing your personal experience, I especially like your shoe/foot fetish analogy, I had a giggle.

What you describe makes sense to me. The themes in 50 shades just don't ring true to me. Not that I expect every book to be faithfully constructed but I think many of us who dislike the book, are uncomfortable with the level of control Christian has over Ana, but it may be hard to draw the line between when it is considered BDSM and when it moves into another realm if you are not familiar with the fetish.

As I am sure people tracking this thread have gathered, I find Christian really unatractive because I think he crosses the line way to frequently and with impunity. But I don't necessarily have to relate to a character to enjoy a book. It is some women's response to Christopher Grey that baffles and unerves me.

But this is not the reason I dislike this book. It was the combination of poor character development, underdeveloped plot, and boring repetitive sex scenes (keep the scenes fresh and interesting please James!) and ultimately it was the writing that made me put the series down.

This series sure does make for some interesting and lively discussion though!

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here come questions:

-Do you think James does an inj..."

I agree with why you find him unattractive. I once dated a guy who was as controlling, or he tried to be, as Christian, just not with as many resources. He's the one that made me realise that while I like being controlled in some ways, I won't tolerate it in my actual life. (Just pointing out that I'm not contradicting a comment in my previous post, he was in no way into BDSM, and he had no inkling to try it.) It frightens me to think that there are people that find that trait attractive. No man, or woman, has the right to control their partner the way Christian does

[Rebecca]

Cornelia wrote: He does actually, in his own way. He makes sure she is safe ..."

See it's interesting our difference in perception. I get the sexual needs and entertainment part. I don't get the buying clothes (he has chosen them, not Ana), buying up her workplace (even if her boss is a jerk), hassling her to eat all the time (Really? Does she have an eating disorder that he has to monitor? I don't care if he has had previous issues with food, she is an adult and can monitor her own food intake!)
I see all of these an invasion or personal liberties, not a romantic gesture of protection.
I was equally surprised by the scene in the art gallery with Jose. Does this girl get stomped on by everyone? Jose takes liberties with her image without her permission and this doesn't appear to bother her either?

[Rebecca]

Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here come questions:

-Do you think Jame..."

Maybe that's it Marra. If you have experienced a "Christian Grey" either personally or in the life of others (I have also come across a couple of "Christian Greys") you are more inclined be turned off by his character.

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here come questions:
..."

I don't know if I envy those that haven't so they haven't had to live that or see others live that or if I'm happy I went through that so I know abuse when I see/read it.

[Rebecca]

Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra Jane, well here com..."

Exactly! And so if someone said to me, "Wow those books were amazing, I am now on the search for my own Christian Grey", my response would be "Look for your great sex, look for your Adonis, but aim higher than Christian Grey, you deserve better than that! :)

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Hey, I'll be more than happy to share my view if you're interested. "

Haha Marra ..."

Indeed! But I'd add if he pulls your tampon out for you, RUN!!! Easily the most repulsive thing I have ever read.

[Rebecca]

^^ Haha. It was in that scene and a few others that I thought that perhaps I had the author all wrong. I thought, umm is she writing a comedy? Ugh ok let me reevaluate here, he is smart enough to establish and run a Billion dollar empire, and he has the sexual knowledge of a Lothario, yet he is happy to not use protection cause she has her period. He's clearly an advocate of the Rhythm method, and we know how safe that is! ;)

That scene is gross, but I've read worse! Memnoch the Devil by Anne Rice has a scene involving a tampon and the vampire Lestat. Eeeww, but I did enjoy that book.

[Mary]

Marra Jane wrote: "Indeed! But I'd add if he pulls your tampon out for you, RUN!!! Easily the most repulsive thing I have ever read. "

OK...I am going to have to respond to this one. WHY do you think it is repulsive? In Anita Diamant's book "The Red Tent," the women all go to the tent to be away from the men while they are menstruating. In the Bible, women were not allowed to worship with the group because their menstruating condition made them "unclean." By seeing a combination of natural bodily fluids as repulsive, is that not a conditioned response to the societal notion that period blood is gross? It seems that much of the anti discussion surrounding this book concerns the empowerment of women. Doesn't this attitude somewhat continue the stereotype of the "weakness" of women? Maybe it is because I have raised three kids and seen more blood, pus, drool, vomit, etc. that the thought of a bloodied tampon no longer has the ability to gross me out. Sex is messy with or without menstrual blood.

[Sofia]

It is in the genre of Erotica, so obviously there would be sexual scenes in it. If that is why people disliked it, then yes, they should not read it. I read it and didn't like it, but not because of the sex. Besides, I read ALL books, even ones that may be bad, but it's up to me to decide for myself, not someone else.

[Henry]

Mary wrote: "OK...I am going to have to respond to this one. WHY do you think it is repulsive?"

Without getting into details, I fully agree with your statement here. Indeed sex is messy with and without menstrual blood, and for me that has always been part of its charm.

BTW, I do realize this is fiction, and yes I have unrequited desire to protect my daughter (somewhere in my wife's third trimester, our daughter as reported by the sonogram, grew a stinger and became a son. While I love our son, I have pined for our missing daughter ever since. Perhaps a good thing, the world probably does not need another spoiled rotten daddy's little girl, and may have spared me a few assault charges. Don't hurt my daughter Christian!)

As far as intelligence, I regard women on the whole to be far more intelligent than men, better organized, and not subject to excessive testosterone. My fears of this book would be more along the lines of alcohol fueled bodily harm from a couple fooling around with BDSM because it sounded cool in the book. A semi intoxicated man could do some real damage with a riding crop to a woman's vulva and there is just something really unromantic about a trip to the ER.

No, I don't believe that women are going to read this and run out to find some abusive son of bitch to fulfill her reality.

[Mary]

Henry wrote: "As far as intelligence, I regard women on the whole to be far more intelligent than men, better organized, and not subject to excessive testosterone. My fears of this book would be more along the lines of alcohol fueled bodily harm from a couple fooling around with BDSM because it sounded cool in the book. A semi intoxicated man could do some real damage with a riding crop to a woman's vulva and there is just something really unromantic about a trip to the ER. ."

I agree with you there, but I do think most women have more sense than that. I have raised two daughters and reading about an abusive relationship even couched as a love story would never induce them to submit to abuse. Personally, I do not get the BDSM lifestyle, but different strokes for different folks. As I stated in a previous post, I do not think this book is actually about true BDSM at all, but that the childhood abuse and neglect of Christian along with an teenage molestation experience caused him to act out his need for control with a more synthetic BDSM lifestyle. He used it to keep people away, not to get sexually closer to them.

[Marra]

B3cs wrote: "^^ Haha. It was in that scene and a few others that I thought that perhaps I had the author all wrong. I thought, umm is she writing a comedy? Ugh ok let me reevaluate here, he is smart enough to e..."

Haha ew. I haven't read that, but it was on my to-read list. Now I'm a little scared. =P

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Indeed! But I'd add if he pulls your tampon out for you, RUN!!! Easily the most repulsive thing I have ever read. "

OK...I am going to have to respond to this one. WHY do you t..."

Ok, how did we get from me thinking a guy crossing a major line (in my eyes) by PULLING OUT HER TAMPON to me saying sex on your period is disgusting? Slightly confused here.

I mean, I've already overshared by talking about certain aspects of my sex life, so I'll say this. I have had sex while I've had my period. Many a time. That's not my issue. But if the guy I was sleeping with, whether he be a one night stand, fuck buddy, boyfriend or husband, went to actually pull my tampon out for me, back the fuck up buddy.

[Mary]

Marra Jane wrote: "Ok, how did we get from me thinking a guy crossing a major line (in my eyes) by PULLING OUT HER TAMPON to me saying sex on your period is disgusting? Slightly confused here. "

Well the "ew..." was my clue. ;0)

[Christine]

Mary wrote: "Henry wrote: "As far as intelligence, I regard women on the whole to be far more intelligent than men, better organized, and not subject to excessive testosterone. My fears of this book would be mo..."

Hee, this reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend once regarding erotica novels and the crazy sex scenes. (One had contortionist sex in the bathroom.)
I said that these books should come with a Warning Advisory : Kiddies? Don't try this at home. (The HBO sitcom Girls has a comical scene where a couple try the shower bathroom sex (as seen in movies and in books) and the guy slips on the floor and breaks his back.

But, seriously? Seconding what Mary wrote, for the same reason most people don't go out and try what they see on Fear Factor, or in the latest adventure or action flick, they aren't going to try what they read in a fictional romance novel. Most women who read these books - use it as pure fantasy, they don't want the reality. The people who want the reality - often don't like these types of books and don't understand the appeal. Also the reality is quite different than what is in the book. And it's very easy to figure that out - all you have to do is surf the net.

I keep wondering if anyone on this list has read fanfic or played on the internet at all or checked out the Good Reads or Amazon lists of BDSM erotica novels? 50 Shades is tame folks. Search the BDSM erotica on Good Reads.

[Marra]

Mary wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Ok, how did we get from me thinking a guy crossing a major line (in my eyes) by PULLING OUT HER TAMPON to me saying sex on your period is disgusting? Slightly confused here. "

W..."

Let's play a game! SPOT THE WORD "EW"

Indeed! But I'd add if he pulls your tampon out for you, RUN!!! Easily the most repulsive thing I have ever read.

=/

[[deleted user]]

I totally understand what your saying, I have to say I did absolutley hate the novels, however I knew full well what it was all about. Sex is a great subject to read about, let's face it, but badly written sex is a turn off!

[Karen]

Marra Jane wrote: "Mary wrote: "Marra Jane wrote: "Ok, how did we get from me thinking a guy crossing a major line (in my eyes) by PULLING OUT HER TAMPON to me saying sex on your period is disgusting? Slightly confus..."

I can't believe that is the most repulsive thing you've read? That is a daily activity for all women... what is the big deal? Of all things to pull out of the books as repulsive, I'm surprised you chose that.

[Marra]

^^^List for me what else I pull have found repulsive, cause I honestly just found te rest to be a poor, pathetic and, at times, an insulting portrayal

[Marra]

I'm not easily offended, so it takes a lot to gross me out, but a guy pulling out a girls tampon, I kind of want to chuck every time I think about it.