Roberto Bolano's "The Savage Detectives" discussion
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The Savage Detectives
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Or should we change that?
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So here's an overview:
I: Mexicans Lost in Mexico [1975]
Pages 1 - 139
No chapters. Written in diary format, so broken up into daily entries.
II: The Savage Detectives [1976 - 1996]
Pages 140 - 588
26 chapters. Average length: 17 pages.
Fuck, this is gonna be a breeze ;)
III: The Sonora Desert [1976]
Pages 589 - 648
Same writing style as Part I. Short.
Ian wrote: "You accepted, of course. There was no initiation ceremony. It was better that way.Or should we change that?"
methinks the initiation part will be getting through the first 50 pages :->
thank God I have already read it once.
Well, the first 3rd of the book is pretty straightforward except for all the Latin-American literary references whereas i don't know a single LA author besides Borges, Allende, and Garcia Marquez, and none of those are in the lists mentioned. Ouch! :(Oh well, apparently the middle part of the book is very different, but i'll wait before i venture any further, until i seem to have more company venturing there with me.
HAS EVERYONE ALREADY STARTED THIS?
Hey Trav, I've made my way into the next section if you'd like to join yet. The next section is indeed quite different. I'm interested to see what the chatter will be about it.
Nope, though i think Ian said that there's no set timetable?I was just testing the waters. I wanted to see what the book was like, and since the prose wasn't very dense, it seemed silly to stop before i got to some kind of... landmark.
Waiting there patiently with engine switched off and busy with 4 other books at the same time.
Maybe i needed something to help me stop feeling so miserable that Gravity's R just isn't moving for me.. Half the time i feel like i'm missing about a million references and allusions with GR, whereas with SD, at least it's only the LA poets that i seem to be a complete ignoramus about. :P :(
Don't worry, this is fast reading.
Stephen M wrote: "Hey Trav, I've made my way into the next section if you'd like to join yet. The next section is indeed quite different. I'm interested to see what the chatter will be about it."Oh! Ok... but now you've found me out regarding Gravity... boo-hoo. I must admit that so far i've been finding this an easier read.
I'd love to chat, but how are we going to do things to avoid spoilers for those that are not with us yet? Separate threads for separate sections perhaps? Ian?
I manage a goodreads book club group. We say "I am at x%" followed by the spoiler tags. So people will know whether it would be ok for them to open the tags.
Sounds like a good plan.
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Traveller wrote: "Well, the first 3rd of the book is pretty straightforward except for all the Latin-American literary references whereas i don't know a single LA author besides Borges, Allende, and Garcia Marquez,..."well thats just it.I looked up a lot of these folks. Some of them are real,and very worthwhile to discover) but some are not listed anywhere,or are somewhat off the wall, like a spanish diaper service, I believe (my Spanish is inadaquate) with those annoying jiggling graphics.
Magdelanye wrote: "Traveller wrote: "Well, the first 3rd of the book is pretty straightforward except for all the Latin-American literary references whereas i don't know a single LA author besides Borges, Allende, a..."Yes, i looked up a bunch, some from the links provided elsewhere in this group's discussion threads, but the problem is that if you're not familiar with these guy's actual work, for which i imagine Spanish would be a recommendation, all the allusions to their actual poems and literature is just completely over my head.
At least there's a story going on separately to the literary allusions, so i guess i'm just focusing on that for now.
Savage Detectives arrived yesterday! I'm a bit apprehensive because I've never liked the style of Latin American writers as being too wordy, and indulgent in emotional floating fluff that swam before my eyes and hurt my head. --That was a true confession from the past. I'm more mature now. More open. I'm reading Infinite Jest and am enjoying it. So, something must have changed. Still, South American culture and flavor have never been among my favorites in any form. Here goes a shot at what will hopefully be one of life's famous surprises.....
Chance wrote: "Savage Detectives arrived yesterday! I'm a bit apprehensive because I've never liked the style of Latin American writers as being too wordy, and indulgent in emotional floating fluff that swam befo..."The style here tends to be more stream of consciousness than fluffy and wordy, so i hope you enjoy this more. :)
Personally, i love the magical realist style in which a lot of the LA's write.
I'm hoping to develop an appreciation for LA's brand of magical realism. My enjoyment seems to hinge on mood, life, frame of mind, and probably other factors. During my short stint on GR, I sometimes read my "old" reviews and think -- really? Too many POV inside my own skull to gather consensus about a novel for the long term. Except for lack of affection for LA writers. Even then, I hope to prove myself wrong. Participating in a group may help.
Chance wrote: "I'm hoping to develop a taste for LA's brand of magical realism. My enjoyment seems to hinge on mood, life, frame of mind, and probably other factors. During my short stint on GR, I sometimes read ..."Have you tried out Isabel Allende yet? Hmm, or perhaps not, if you don't like that kind of thing.
Perhaps one of GG Marquez's shorter works might also be more accessible than his longer works.
Personally i have an extremely soft spot for his Chronicle of a Death Foretold, but i know it doesn't fall within everybody's tastes. However, given that you don't like the more fluffy stuff, maybe that one will be a good entry point, actually.
It's not very fluffy, and it only gets emotional at the end, but really only at the end did the style seem quite florid, which to me was fitting and a perfect contrapoint for the exquisite self-restraint earlier on in the novella.
I like his short stories too, but then i am a lover of short stories. :P
Traveller wrote: "Chance wrote: "I'm hoping to develop a taste for LA's brand of magical realism. My enjoyment seems to hinge on mood, life, frame of mind, and probably other factors. During my short stint on GR, I ..."I put Chronicle of a Death Foretold on my to-read shelf. No page goes unturned in the quest to become a better writer.
Mike wrote: "If I'm not mistaken, RB pretty much hated magical realism."The intro to SD implies RB set himself apart from Marquez etc.
Chance wrote: "Traveller wrote: "I put Chronicle of a Death Foretold on my to-read shelf. No page goes unturned in the quest to become a better writer. .."I think it would be quite an interesting study in stylistic choices from a writer's POV.
It's postmodern in construction. It has some elements of MR, but through most of the novel it tends to be more restrained than most MR, whereas more florid and visceral aspects start to break through towards the end of the novel. But it is the dry tone that is adopted earlier on, which makes the visceral ending flare up in contrast like the final passionate flourish in a Flamenco dance.
Like i mentioned in my review, it has the artifice of being a journalistic investigation, but i suspect it was a quest for emotional closure on GGM's part.
To me it had echoes of how Kurt Vonnegut tried to deal with his PSTD regarding Dresden in Slaughterhouse 5; though the 2 authors did deal with it differently. (Perhaps differences in temperament?)
With the GGM novella, anger shows through, anger and grief, whereas, to me in Slaughterhouse 5, it's just that typical 'dead' kind of denial;- the shying away from emotion that one often sees in traumatized persons.
Traveller wrote: "Chance wrote: "Traveller wrote: "I put Chronicle of a Death Foretold on my to-read shelf. No page goes unturned in the quest to become a better writer. .."I think it would be quite an interesting..."
That's an interesting contrast/comparison between Marquez and Vonnegut. Culture/temperament's impact on POV choices is a two-edged sword as it can repeal or attract readers.
I've lived with several cultures, which created a desire to write diverse characters from a perspective outside my own personality makeup--knowing that that goal is essentially impossible. Resonance with one's temperament comes through whether reading or writing, yet reading from diverse POVs can expand our own experience and encourage tolerance and understanding of how others operate in life. Still, there are attractions to types and styles, which sometimes feel like limitations--all the more reason to explore (and retry) numerous authors.
Traveller wrote: "reading from diverse POVs can expand our own experience and encourage tolerance and understanding of how others operate in life."and in so doing expand our own range of thought.
When I first started reading SD,I was seduced into imagining an affinity with the impulse driving the characters. Gradually I had to admit that I was bewildered by many of the actions that seemed contradictary to a shared vision.
It may have been 3 times during the reading of this book that I flipped my opinion, ending up where I started, loving it savagely.
After writing the above response I went on to another thread which led me to look up David Grossman whose right up there amongst my most favorite authors.And I found this very appropriate quote regarding writing from various POV's
To feel what it means to be another person. To be able to touch, if only for a moment, the blaze that burns within another human being.”
― David Grossman
Magdelanye wrote: "To feel what it means to be another person. To be able to touch, if only for a moment, the blaze that burns within another human being.”― David Grossman .."
That is nice - thanks for the quote!
Now that you've been cordially invited to join the visceral realists...