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Mishmash Challenge 2012 (Suggestions/Questions)
message 51:
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Lu
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Jun 21, 2012 12:35PM
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Umm, I don't know. That looks more like a thunderstorm that kicked up a bit of dust.
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10. Read a book where a word or words in the title is pictured in the cover image.
So you acknowledge that it is a storm, which is one of the words in the title?
Other editions of the cover include:
&
. Maybe one of them fits better?
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I too have my doubts about this book. Don't you have any other options?
I'm on Barbara with this one - you can't split the word because that has problematic implications for the task. Also, a sandstorm is pretty hectic, and the other covers are still fairly calm.
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Sometimes a task will allow more than you would think, but sometimes it just won't work.
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What do you mean about breaking the word in 2? A sandstorm is a sandstorm and that is a sandstorm?
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As far as I know there is no lightning in a real sandstorm and there is just a little disturbance of the sand on the first cover. So it is not really a sandstorm but indeed more a thunderstorm that kicked up some dust as Lauren said.
In message 53 Varla Fiona says: "So you acknowledge that it is a storm, which is one of the words in the title?". The title of her book is a one word title so if she just wants to use the word "storm", she has to break the word in 2 to do that.
When she first asked it, I wasn't too sure if it counted or not but then you, lu, said it was ok and I decided to saty out of it but then Lauren said she had her doubts and since I had mine to I decided to speak up. Who nominated this task? What is their idea?
I nominated the task, and splitting the words up I'd say is not allowed. As for the cover, I'm with Lu.The book will fit for quite a few of the other tasks, maybe check if you can use another of your planned reads for this task instead because there's such a disagreement over it.
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The Epic challenge is different, because it is page count. You can read more pages that what you actually have.
I think the first cover is a Sandstorm, but that one up there is definitely a sandstorm. But yea we are 50/50 so maybe read another book that fits.
Ah I get what you are saying about the 2 word thing, you can't split 1 word into 2 and then use one of those words.
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Sandstorm has been translated, regardless of the cover (which fits the requirement of desert or wasteland, i.e. lots of sand for Choose Wisely). I was going to read
for the translated task, but it clearly has a dragon pictured, so works for the title pictured task!
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Huh?
I mean different version of the same book have different page counts depending on what kind of letters they are using or how big the letters are. The text is the same. But look at a hardcover and a pocketbook of the same book. They have different page counts. You have to go with the count that you read and not the count of a version of the same book but with more pages. I feel the same about covers. I use the cover of the version of the book I read and don't look further.
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Don't you guys have heaters in SA? In the Netherlands we have heaters to warm our rooms when it gets cold. You never hear me complain that it is to cold to type and we get subzero weather with snow and ice.
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I don't find the cover at all that worrisome. And I LOVE to look at all the different covers out there. It is a bit of a obsession. If I can't use whatever cover I want, it takes the fun out of it for me - the searching for one in the different editions etc makes it for me.
I also think it is what is what you find comfortable. Some don't think a audio book should count for challenges, I do. Some think you have to start a book only on the date a challenges starts. Lauren likes to use the finish date for hers, I like to see in which month I read the majority of the book.
Oh and back to covers, I use all the data from the book I actually read in reviews, challenges etc. Except the cover
We have heaters but we aren't geared for cold really. Like we don't really have under heated floors etc. (only if you can afford it) And to put Heaters on etc is super expensive - so on cold nights sure, but hell no amount of heaters can get me warm!
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I hate page counts though, because I know how they can differ with the various versions of a book. I recently read a book of which the page counts differed in different versions in English, differing from 96 pages to 224 pages. I fortunately had two versions of the book myself, with very different page counts and I compared both books. I couldn't find any differences in the book. The only differences were the size of the book itself (one book had bigger pages and had thus more text on them), the letters inside and whether a new chapter started on a new page or not. If I read the book with 96 pages I couldn't have used it in any of the challenges. If however I read the version with 224 pages there wouldn't be any problems. I think that strange.
I think word count would be better to use but unfortunately that isn't known with most books.
If I am the only one who thinks about covers this way I will abide with the majority vote. But if I am alone in this, I do want to ask all you guys: why do we have tasks were a book with a certain cover has to be read if you can toy with the cover in this way, since some books have dozens of covers. For me it feels almost as if we would have a task that said read a book that is written in the English language. What would be the point of such a task?
And I must say I do have my doubts about audiobooks, because we are a reading group and not a listening group. But the majority is ok with audiobooks so I am not objecting to it.
We don't have under heated floors either. At least not a lot of people do. But everyone has some sort of central heating system, which is used for a big part of the year. How come it is that expensive to use them in SA?
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"I do want to ask all you guys: why do we have tasks were a book with a certain cover has to be read if you can toy with the cover in this way, since some books have dozens of covers. "
What do you mean with the above?
Because electricity is expensive :)
I wouldn't be able to afford a central heating system and to be honest I don't know anybody who has one.
My two cents on the cover issue - my first reaction is that you should stick with the cover on your book, but the problem comes in with eBooks - a lot of my eBooks have no cover specified, so you just have to pick one. And if eBook readers get to pick a cover, then it's only fair that those reading print get to do the same.However, for myself at least, I draw the line at using covers from foreign-language editions.
Using a variety of covers does make the challenge a lot easier, but that doesn't mean it's always easy. For example, a task that recently came up in Choose Wisely was to read a book with a red dress on the cover. These are everywhere, but if, like me, you don't read much YA romance, or YA in general, it's not that easy to find something you'd actually want to read.
The eBook issue has the same weight in the page numbers debate. When reading an eBook, the page number thing often doesn't even apply unless you're reading a pdf that's an exact duplicate of the pages as they're printed. So again you get to choose your edition. I admit that for the current Epic Challenge I read a book with 499 pages that had small, tightly packed text. It wasn't enough for the challenge, but I felt that because of the text size and the page count falling just 1 short, I could use the Goodreads count for that edition, which was 506 pages. If I didn't have a hardcopy, I wouldn't have known about the 499 thing.
However, I would say it's unfair to use the page count from an edition that has extra content (eg. an introduction) or to count the introduction/notes/index if you didn't actually read those things.
Oh central heating! Most people in SA don't have that (I imagine you'd have to be pretty wealthy to have it) and plugging in a heater means your electricity bill goes WAY up.
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Sorry, I've had connection issues lately. Bloody Ethiopia and their stupid telecoms service! They banned Skype and other VoIP services, partly so that the state-owned telecoms company can make more money, and since then their services have actually gotten worse, the fuckers.
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Oh and Barbara I feel bad "arguing" with you. The cover situation has never felt like cheating to me so I have actually never thought about it in that way. I can see where you are coming from and I understand that you don't use it, but personally I won't be able to do challenges if I couldn't do that, it is half the fun for me.
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Take for example Harry Potter or any other bestselling author or even the classics. They have dozens of different covers in the English language alone. They have different covers for adults and for children, every reprint gets a different cover. Often there is a different cover for the English and the American version. And then you have the covers of all the versions of all the languages the book has been translated in. I think there are a lot of books that have 50 different covers or more. Since we often do not ask outrageous things, but simple things like clouds or a tree like in this challenge, you can almost decide which book you want to read and then find the cover of the version, that matches what you need. Chances are you will succeed and what is the challenge in that. Whereas with other tasks you have to find a book that has what you need and reading it whether you wanted to read it in the first place or not.
And another question. How does pagecount influences your reading experience if you read an e-book? If you have a physical book you get a sense of where you are in the story and how far they still have to go. Often I get anxious towards the end of the book, because I don't feel they can fix the problem or get together or accomplish whatever they have to accomplish in the amount of pages left. With an e-book the thickness of what your holding never changes and you dont literally feel where you are in the book. So how does page count affects your experience?
And how do you deal with page count with an audiobook? Especially if there are different versions of the book and some of them are below our mandatory 150 pages and others are above it?
Sorry if I am being a pain, but I am honestly wondering about these things and I really want to understand, but right now I really do not understand why there is a different way of treating different data in a book.
Huh, weird that it is that expensive. Our central heating system is powered by both electricity and gas. It pumps heated water through the house. Every family in the Netherlands can afford a heating system. It is even illegal to be cut off by you supplier if you haven't paid your bills, when the temperature drops below a certain point, because it is considered a primary need for living (not sure how to say that but I hope you get what I mean).
Just goes to show how things can be totally different in other countries.
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Page Count = I go with the most popular version of the book if I don't know the exact number (if not a PDF etc.)
Audio Book = Same as Page Count
Heating = Ah is that how it works, I only see it in movies and people are always fiddling with the thermostat.
Oh and a spanner in the works, what if you get a downloaded copy of a book, to which cover do you assign that? I mean surely any cover will do, as it could be any version that was copied?
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PS: Freezing going to bath
For covers: perhaps we can at least limit it to using covers for the same language edition as the one you read?Another reason I'm ok with using other covers is that the one you get is usually just a matter of chance or copyright. You pick the cover you like, you pick the cheaper edition, or you're forced to get the one that's sold in your country. But it's still the same book.
Even with lots of covers to choose from, you can still struggle to find something you want to read, or that's available to you.
And if it's easy, well, it's nice to have easy tasks as well. I really appreciate them, because I only have about one leisure read per month - all my other reads are dictated by my review schedule.
How does pagecount influences your reading experience if you read an e-book?
On the Kindle, there's a bar showing your progress, and it shows what percentage of the book you've read. If you push the menu button, you can also see the page count (if there is one) and the 'location' number. I don't understand how locations work, but a novel with 300-odd pages will have about 4000-odd locations.
I've gotten used to looking at the percentage at the bottom of the screen. If it changes quickly, I know I'm zipping through the book. If I keep clicking to the next page with no change in percentage, the book feels very long.
Audiobooks: I'm ok with these because you've still gone through the content of the book, just in a different way. But I'd say that abridged editions are not allowed, because then you don't know how long it is.
Ah, the Netherlands sounds like paradise :) South Africa is a long way away from that kind of comfort, although at least it doesn't get quite as cold as the Netherlands. Still, I remember being really frustrated at being so cold for so long, during certain winters.
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I know about finding something, but for me it often means going to a bookstore and buying a book (that I didn't know about before) that has the item on the cover I need. Instead of doing a bit of googling and finding a cover (I can use) on a book I planned on reading anyway.
The only e-book/downloaded book I ever read was James Potter and the Hall of Elders' Crossing. That came with a cover. And believe it or not I printed it out to read it :P Sorry :)
I have also never listened to an entire audiobook. Former friends of mine listened to many of them and often they would have one on in the car or at home. So I did listen to several pages at a time but I always got distracted doing other things and forgot to listen after a couple of minutes.
Since I only read physical books I never thought about what people do with downloaded books.
About the heating, don't take this the wrong way, but are you kidding me? You really don't know how central heating works? I don't want to insult you ,but central heating for me is the most normal thing in the world and I find it strange that you don't have it, but since you don't have it, I guess you wouldn't know how it works. Well there are two different very common systems both with a thermostat. One works with heated water and then you have heater units in every room through which the water flows. These can be controlled at the unit itself or at a thermostat and if you want the heat going up you just adjust the setting of the unit or the temperature at a termostat they simple pump more warm water through the system. The second one is with heated air and then you just have a thermostat at which you can adjust the temperature and then heated air will be blown into a room through a vent and cold air will be sucked out of the room. Or the other way around since this system is also an air conditioning system.
taking a bath is always the best way to warm up even if you have a heating system. The only thing that beats a bath is curling up in bed with a good book and my cats.
Have a nice bath and sweet dreams and no doubt I will talk to you tomorrow.
Thanks for your patience with all my annoying questions.
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I don't agree with the argument that you are stuck with getting the one that is available in your country, since we can order any copy we like on Amazon or bookdepo.
I do agree that we should stick with the covers in the language of the book we are reading it in or even if that is possible to the publishing company you're reading it from. I guess that with downloaded books the copyright info is still present so you can use that. I don't know how it works with e-books and audiobooks, so I dont know if it is a possibility.
Ok, since I don't have a kindle I didn't know about that feature. I guess that would be comparable with what I feel when I read a book. Thanks for that explanation.
I hate abridged versions even with reading a book. I am always wondering what they left outand if I am missing out on something. I never read them.
Well having lived here all my life I can definitely say The Netherlands is not paradise, but I am damn lucky to be living here. It is funny the things I take for granted that other countries just don't have. Although we don't have everything or every comfort over here either. 94 % of the people have acces to the internet in the Netherlands but not every home is connected to the sewers. I will tell you why. There is a network of sewers across the Netherlands and you have to pay to be connected to the central system. Most often this is very cheap since there is a sewer underneath every streat and the houses are right on the streets and once you're connecte you're connected. So for most houses this was done decades ago. However if you life in the country it might be that there are a couple of dozen or even hundreds of meters between your house and the central line and then it can get expensive and then other options that work just as well are much cheaper. The internet however is a different story. The KPN is a telecom company that used to be owned by the state. When they went private the state obligated them that they had to connect every house to the telephone network for free if the people living in that house wanted to be connected. They still are under this obligation. If you want to be connected to the central network for your internet and there is no actual line you have to pay which is very expensive but if you want it for the telephone it is free of charge and they won't remove the actual line once it is put down. So once it is there it is there. So all you have to do to get internet is ask for a telephone connection and once you have that, have it disconnected and apply for internet. So right now more people are connected to the internet than to the sewer system. It is very funny and probably something you didn't need to know but here you have it anyway :)
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for review and I was then sent it. I knew it was coming so I planned on reading it for something, donno what. Now lets say I planned on reading it for a cover that is purple. What I actually got was
and I didn't know it could be yellow. So what now? What if I finished another purple book before the challenge and because I knew I would read Fated. What now? I would be pretty upset! (I don't read a lot of books like you guys, so that means my whole challenge could be affected now)I have also ordered books and gotten different covers. Also remember we can't order from Amazon (crazy expensive)
I am happy to do the languages thing if you guys think that is taking it too far.
95% of the books I read are review books and Netgalley and they either have only 1 cover cause they are new or they are Advanced Reader Copies with no cover yet on your copy (some are just black covers). So you sort of have to guess from goodreads which one it is (normally only one there tho).
Also yea abridged audio books are a no no for me.
The sewerage thing is so strange!
A random fact 83% of South Africans don't have access to internet.
I don't agree with the argument that you are stuck with getting the one that is available in your country, since we can order any copy we like on Amazon or bookdepo.This is true, but in some cases you use books that you already have for the challenge, and I don't think many people would be willing to fork out the cash for a different edition of the same book. Others might search for a book on Goodreads and then get a library copy, which seldom offers a choice of cover.
For eBooks, copyright info is indeed available, at least for books obtained by legitimate means (review copies, or purchased books). There's an issue with pirated books though - in that case someone could have scanned the book, which means you just get the text and no cover or copyright page. The use of pirated books is another issue altogether. I'm pretty sure banning them would put some members at a great disadvantage when it comes to challenges.
I'm not a fan of abridged versions either. I've listened to one abridged audio book, but I didn't realise at first that it was abridged, and it was only a random crime novel I didn't really care about.
In Ethiopia, I think about 1% of people have internet access. I don't know what percentage of the population actually knows how to use a computer, since most live in the rural areas where they farm to survive and travel using donkey carts. I imagine that only a fraction of the 1% actually have internet access in their homes - most would have to go to an internet cafe. However, according to a test conducted in 2007, the internet cafes have an average speed of about 5kbps, and the service is down 10-20% of the time. Last year I took a photo of a sign in an internet cafe advertising "Very fast internate - 1Mbps"
Earlier this year we went to a lodge on the shore of Lake Bishangari. A guide at the lodge said he used email, but he had to travel 14km to the nearest town to use the internet cafe there.
I don't know how the sewage system here works, but I think I lot of houses have septic tanks. Not sure about apartment blocks, but running water is a luxury. We run out of hot water quickly, but we're lucky to have water whenever we need it, and a hot tub to heat water up if we want a bath. A friend of mine (she's from the Netherlands actually!) lives in what are known as very good apartments, but half the time they don't have power, hot water or running water. She hates getting up early, but if she doesn't she has to have a cold shower or none at all. They have to keep a bucket of water by the toilet, and bottles of water around the house.
It makes South Africa look like a first world country! So yeah, you're very, very lucky :)
As much as I'm enjoying this discussion, I'll have to continue it later since it's 1am here, and I still want to read, so I'm off to bed. Good night guys!
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For page count of ebooks and audiobooks (which I listen to when I am driving or cooking only as I get distracted and forget to listen if I am busy with anything else) I use the first one that pops up on Goodreads.
Iuse a reading app on my phone or tablet that tells you how many screens the book will take and how many you have read, it also has a progress bar, so it is easy to keep track of how far you are. The different size screens and size I set the font obviously affect the number of screens it will take. For example, a 500 page book will be about 100 screens on my tablet, but over 1000 on my phone.
I spent some time in Finland some years back, in the middle of winter, including a week on the arctic circle. Central heating is amazing, and is essential in places like that. Although, SA does get cold, we don't freeze as much, so I guess the priority has always gone to other things over central heating. Right now we can't even provide housing for our entire population, never mind heating that housing! Personally, my home gets COLD at times, but I cope. I rent a cottage on a small holding, of about 9 hectares. The building is OLD and has no ceiling (do you know how much warmth is trapped by a ceiling?) It used to be thatch, but has been replaced with a cheaper tile type thing. I stay warm by means of my fire, gas heater or cuddling under warm blankets with my furkids (Labrador and Siamese). We have municipal sewarage and phone lines (mine was installed free due to a promotion, it is normally expensive, especially as we are on the outskirts of town and properties are so big.) We don't have post delivered or rubbish collected though! I love being out in the bush and my pets think this is heaven, so these are just minor irritations to me!
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Maybe I am old fashioned since I still read all my books on paper instead of all the other options out there, but I do love the feel and smell of a book. I will get an e-reader in time but even then I will read a lot of books on paper. Can't imagine that i will ever stop doing that.
Yeah Finland is way colder than the Netherlands.
Well if you are out in the bush as you say, Varla Fiona, I can imagine that you don't have all the luxeries. But Lu and Claudia live in town, don't they? And they are regularly complaining about the cold. So I was just wondering how come.
Here in the Netherlands lots of people have warmer cloths for winter like sweaters and stuff. I don't because I never understand it. Why would I wear a thick sweater when inside we have heaters everywhere and it is just as warm as in summer even if we have snow and ice outside and when we go outside we have our wintercoats and hats and mittens etc. So the fact that in a country as South Africa heating systems aren't that common is surprising to me. But I live in a very priviliged country and I am well aware of that fact and very gratefull for it.
Ah not to have running water... When I went to Mexico I became friends with a girl there who lived in what I called the slums and they called a new housing project and they didn't have running water and if you used the toilet you had to get a bucket of water out of this big tank in which they collected rain water. I didn't mind that much. But what I did mind was that there was often a dead rat floating in it. It was disgusting. But for these people it was daily life. It made me very thankfull for a toilet that flushes :)
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But I am also super sensitive to the cold. I get winters feet so my toes are purple as we speak - it is sore :(
I don't even know how to go about getting central heating, I wonder if someone actually does it in SA?
A lot of people use gas heaters, but the gas is expensive and there can be lots of shortages in winter. It scares me a bit, with all the accidents you hear about that can happen with them.
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There is a danger with gas, as with many other forms of heating, but I use it occasionally as I only having a camping heater not an electric one. My fire place is still my favourite way to get warm, and make marshmallows or other yummy treats!!
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Our central heating system has a central unit in the attic that heats the water and does all kinds of things and it is checked every year to see if it is still safe and to see if any maintenance is necessary. So there aren't that many accidents that happen with them. It is the same with other kinds of heating systems.
It can't be healthy, Lu, to have purple toes. Is that common that people get so cold and isn't there some way to dress or do something against it. No wonder you spend so much time in the bathtub.
Ah Varla Fiona.... So a cold night drops below 10C, does it *sigh* Half of the year the day temperature doesn't exceed 10C here. When we talk about a cold night, we mean it has been below zero and it is literally freezing. Last year we had temperatures during the day that were -10C. Imagine what the nights were :)
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Yea it doesn't get as cold as it does in other countries, but we aren't geared for it at all. Our houses are not build for cold, and to keep warm can cost quite a bit. Where you would walk from outside into the warmth of a building/house/work here it is basically the same inside as out. Our clothes also aren't very thermal etc. Only now are we catching up a bit on that. When my brother went to England he could hardly get any thermal stuff to buy or warmer jackets.
It is not that bad as I make it sound. I just know a lot of people who have gone to colder countries, but get colder in SA cause we are not prepared for it.
I wish I could just move to a different province! Here in Mpumalanga we frequently don't have water or there is sewage running out in the streets and making people sick. Last month we were without water for 3 weeks ... not fun.I think most houses here in SA are actually built to stay colder and not retain heat. For example: we have very high ceilings - 3 meters is standard if I'm right (I haven't measured). Over near the desert where my mum's side of the family lives, the ceilings are even higher. Higher ceilings keeps the rooms cooler and in summer with temperatures in the 30s and close to 40s (even over 40degrees in certain areas) this is useful, especially since the majority of houses do not have anything better than a portable fan to keep people cool. When I was little we put in ceiling fans and the short strings to switch them on and off had me frowning (really? we're suppose to reach that high?) until my dad told me about other countries having lower ceilings. :P
There was also something about the type of insulation used and the angle of the house in relation to the sun? I'm not sure. When the sun is out in winter and it's about 18degrees or so outside, my house will be around 14 or 15degrees inside. Brrrr.
I can see my breath in the air when I get up for my coffee in the mornings. My cats and dog sleep with warmbottles and refuse to get up before 10am. :)
Oh Lu, cold toes! That's terrible. We could construct you some usb-powered socks: plug in when sitting by the computer to heat up those toes. :P
I use to have really bad winters fingers, to the point where the skin was raw and bleeding and my fingers in pain. I'm just grateful it hasn't been that bad in a few years.
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Our ceiling fans have short strings too but we lengthened them. I do not know if my dad could reach them. I mean I am very short (only 1,60 meters) and my dad is a lot taller. So maybe they are reachable if you're height is average.
I guess it is also what you are used to. I can handle cold very well and even in winter you will see me walking outside with my coat unbuttoned even if it snows. I never get purple toes or winter fingers. The worst I get is that my lips dry out and split because of the cold wind, but a little lip balm will take care of that.
I told my mum about that you guys have no heating and that it gets really cold ans she told me to tell you you are always welcome to stay at our plce. It is summer here and even if it does get cold we do have heating and you're welcome to come take advantage of that. She know it is a long way but hey we all have to make sacrifices for the things we want :)
Wow to be without water for three weeks. I couldn't imagine it. The last time we have been without water must have been 7 or 8 years ago at least and then we weren't actually without water, but we had to boil all the water that came from the tap because there were some birds that mistook the water cleaning company as a lake and settled there and they pooped in the water and they carried a bacteria that they didn't screen for. So that came in the water and they had to drive of the birds and then clean all the water and flush all the plumbing and stuff. In the meantime we could still use the water as long as we boiled it because that would kill all the bacteria. And before that the only times I can remeber we were without water was when we did some construction work on the house and they laid down some new plumbing.
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Yay lets go visit Barbara!
Yea the water thing sucks, we have been having problems as well because of pipes bursting from the cold :(
Wow Barbara that is an interesting problem you guys had! Mush have been a huge job to clean the lake and flush all the plumbing!
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The biggest problem was my cats. They said that the water wasn't fit for human consumption, but they didn't say anything about animals. So I decided to take no risks and give my cats boiled water. I found out that they hate boiled water. So I tried bottled water. It took me some time to find a brand that they didn't mind drinking but they never really liked it. They drank only when they really really had to. So I was very happy when the week was over and they could drink tapwater again, because I was really scared for their health and them not drinking enough.
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