Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion
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Conditioned Response
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Conditioned Response by Marjorie F. Baldwin
Marjorie wrote: "Wow, Stephen, you have to be the FIRST person EVER to say that those male green eyes look female. Usually the comment is "that guy has such heavy eyebrows" or a query about whether I really like "h..."The eyes in your post, with the full color picture, yeah, I see them as male. But not the ones on the book cover graphic.
And yes, I've gathered that you frequently don't understand how my mind works. You are not alone in that, believe me. In fact, I mentioned your remark to my wife of 25 years, and she replied "I don't think she'd want to. Some things its better not to know."
Btw, what's the code to insert a picture into a post, as you did?
First of all I would like to thank Marjorie for the free book! I started reading it on Tuesday and I'm almost half way through. I like it and I like (please do not throw rotten tomatos on me...) Shayla. To me she seems like a very young and naive girl more than a sophisticated spy.
What I would like to know (but probably it will be explained further on) is what is the Seven Chiefs' Plan and what is Shayla's Plan. I would also like to know how and why there's such a big conflict (to put it mildly) with Dramond and Kindi. Also, some history about what happend to Earth and about the "invasion" and about Phoenicians' history. But maybe all this will be explained in the first book.
Perheps some glossary or similar would be useful to explain who/what some words mean...
I'll keep reading and hoping something will be clear at the end of the book!
I am also curious about the "Plans" and I guess they would be dealt with more in other books. And I agree with you that Shayla comes up as very young and naive and innocent and has such a tragic past that you can't help but feel sorry for her.:)
Mei, you're welcome for the free book :) My pleasure as it was a real treat and honor to me that the group offered to read it! Readers and Authors are in one of the few truly symbiotic relationships that we humans can experience without anyone actually getting the short end. Or that's my opinion anyway - we all really need each other!Okay, about the Plan (capital "P" because it's the Plan of the Seven Chiefs). Once and for all. (view spoiler)
Yeah, nice try. Okay, try pulling the other one now.
Oh and Shayla's "plan" (small "p") is pretty much revealed early on so I'll tell you that one (view spoiler) Yeah, that's about. She's not very complicated. She's like a nerdy geekgrrl with super powers ^_^
As for Xdyj's earlier request for more on the Phoenician history and current endorsement of "Plan" reveals ;) I'd planned (haha) to have Book 1 get into all that, true, but oddly enough as I keep working on When Minds Collide (WMC) this short-story-turned-mini-novella is getting into a lot more of the history than I'd planned on telling this way.
I definitely want to write a prequel novel (Book 0? -1? :) I'm going to totally ruin the numbering system, I just know it!) that tells the story of how and why the Community was formed, who they are, how, why, when they left Earth, how they got to this planet etc. All of that is a book unto itself though. I'll have more "references" to that "history" in WMC but it'll just make you guys want the earlier book all that much more. The good news is, I still plan to make WMC a freebie "loss leader" for the series. That is, I'll take the loss on it, giving it away because I believe it will lead people to buy the books in the series -- right now, only Conditioned Response but Book 1 will be next (just as soon as I find a new place to live, a new job, and get myself settled enough I can WRITE Book 1. I really need a title for it, huh? LOL)
I hope that answers your questions Mei though I'm sure it doesn't completely - sorry! Not giving the whole series away in spoilers! Even Goodreads' tags can't handle THAT much spoilering.
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Mei wrote: "First of all I would like to thank Marjorie for the free book! I started reading it on Tuesday and I'm almost half way through. I like it and I like (please do not throw rotten tomatos on me...) Shayla. To me she seems like a very young and naive girl more than a sophisticated spy.
[St. Onge:]
A fairly young spy (about 26) is still a spy. And someone who's been in touch for years with the people in charge of both human and Phoenician society is unlikely to be naive.
But I like Shayla too.
What I would like to know (but probably it will be explained further on) is what is the Seven Chiefs' Plan and what is Shayla's Plan. I would also like to know how and why there's such a big conflict (to put it mildly) with Dramond and Kindi. Also, some history about what happend to Earth and about the "invasion" and about Phoenicians' history. But maybe all this will be explained in the first book.
[St. Onge:]
I expect some in the first book, and more in the last book.
Perheps some glossary or similar would be useful to explain who/what some words mean...
I'll keep reading and hoping something will be clear at the end of the book! "
Stephen wrote: "And someone who's been in touch for years with the people in charge of both human and Phoenician society is unlikely to be naive."I guess I was subconsciously comparing her with the protagonists of Cyteen. :) (spoilers for both books)(view spoiler)
And I wouldn't call her "a spy" as she is not hiding anything important from the humans.
Spot on descriptions of Shayla in that spoiler X, thank you! It warms my heart when a reader understands my character better than I do!omg i hate typing on this virtual kybd
Xdyj wrote: "I guess I was subconsciously comparing her with the protagonists of Cyteen. :) And I wouldn't call her "a spy" as she is not hiding anything important from the humans."
When someone is reporting on your society and govt. to the leaders/govt. of another society, you're a spy, imao.
@ Marjory - Thank for the explanation (you were a bad, bad girl with that spoiler!!! :D ). About Shayla's plan, I thought that there was another one besides the one you gave us at the beginning of the book... My convoluted brain was searching for something other. *wink*
Another question that came up to me is: how come the human government allowed Shayla to become a Councillor? If I understood correctly the class system, only the Privileged Class citizens can enter the Council... and Shayla is Phoenician...
I also would like to know more about the how and why this class system... If Proctors are Second Class, how can a Proctor be Heir to the Administrator? Sorry, but I'm still in the middle of the book... If this is explained further on, just tell me to wait! :D
Also, I'm insanely curious to know how exactly works the reproduction for these humans (as they're sterile, no?) Are they cloning each other? No.... I don't think plane cloning is involved... it must be more than this, but how exactly?
Mmmmm, what else? Ah, you say that Shayla cannot have Kyree... What do you mean by that? I thought that Kyree is her mate sanctioned by the Chiefs... Maybe you mean that since Shayla don't want to come back with Phoenician, and Kyree is 100% Phoenician, therefore she knows that he will never come with her? Right?
@Stephen - Yes, I know that she's young, but she seems to me more Nancy Drew than James Bond. *wink*
And even with 13 years experience with humans, she IS still very naive for me. For example, she believes that Jorle's addiction can be controlled by making him take scans everyday and then is surprised when she discovered that he has been cheating all the time... how naive is that?
Well, since the human govt knows that Shayla is reporting to Phoenician she's not a spy technically, since being spy implies, in my opinion, the humans being unaware of her reporting....
Well, if something else come out, I'll ask you guys! :D
P.S. Please forgive me if I make some errors... English is not my native tongue...
"Xdyj wrote: "I guess I was subconsciously comparing her with the protagonists of Cyteen. :) And I wouldn't call her "a spy" as she is not hiding anything important from the humans."
Stephen wrote: "When someone is reporting on your society and govt. to the leaders/govt. of another society, you're a spy, imao."
@Stephen, I think X is closer to my intentions for Shayla than your literal interpretation because although I did say Shayla returned home often over the years and each time, met with the Seven Chiefs, I never did explicitly state what she was or was not saying to them. In my mind, I was thinking more along the lines of "You go home, you talk to your parents before you go off to hang out with your friends." At least teenagers behave like that in my experience and I tried to get across that as she moved through her 20s, her visits home became less and less frequent, briefer and less purposeful -- because she and Kyree had grown apart, not for any other reason.
X - I think I understood from your previous comments about Cherryh's Cyteen that you were comparing the two books and ...didn't I add that to my TBR shelf based on your first mention? It definitely sounded like a good/valid parallel to draw but I could've sworn I admitted I have never once read a single word written by Cherryh. Gotta get to that! :)
In your point by point comparison in Message #57, actually, I just skipped past the Ari whatever mentions and read the bits about Shayla. I know you were comparing point by point and found a lot of same/opposite points but I had no idea what the Ari comments were about so I just focused on the interspersed Shayla comments -- which again, I say were spot on! Good job summing up Shayla! You wanna do all of my character maps for me? LOL
I'm definitely kidding, I wrote a series of character maps in the 1980s and have them in various formats. I know precisely who everyone was intended to be at various times of this series. It's just a matter of actually writing them now. Forex, I had jotted down notes about who Joshua Scherrer "was" but had never actually written that character into a scene because he stops existing as an individual person in When Minds Collide. Writing that story now, I'm finding out a lot about Scherrer :)
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Giving this one a separate reply to focus on you exclusively, my little Mei :)Mei wrote: "@ Marjory - Thank for the explanation (you were a bad, bad girl with that spoiler!!! :D ). "
I was! And that's why I put it into a spoiler tag :) You know, I hope you aren't ruining your own enjoyment of the book by soliciting -- and getting -- spoiler information but I'm so glad you're into it enough to be curious.
Another question that came up to me is: how come the human government allowed Shayla to become a Councillor? If I understood correctly the class system, only the Privileged Class citizens can enter the Council... and Shayla is Phoenician...
A-ha! Finally someone asked. I was waiting for that one. It's explained in Book 1. LOL Sorry but it is actually true, that's where I'll explain it. I've "written" about 1/3 of Book 1 and I wrote that portion of it based on my notes from 1986, then I did the edits of Conditioned Response and all those remarks about Joshua talking to Raif had to be slotted into place correctly and I edited a few other points about what is "history" in CR but happens in Book 1 and decided I needed to explain that more fully than a "reference" in Book 2. It's not an easy answer--and I won't even summarize it in a spoiler tag here but nice try :) Let me say this, and only this, it's related to her having been kidnapped and abused by Dramond and it's part of the "plea bargain" when Dramond is put on trial for that. It's all part of the Plan (capital "P")
If Proctors are Second Class, how can a Proctor be Heir to the Administrator? Sorry, but I'm still in the middle of the book... If this is explained further on, just tell me to wait! :D
Wait for it! :D Actually if you haven't gotten to that part yet, how'd you know (view spoiler) And am I the only one using the spoiler tag?
*LeSigh*
Also, I'm insanely curious to know how exactly works the reproduction for these humans (as they're sterile, no?) Are they cloning each other? No.... I don't think plane cloning is involved... it must be more than this, but how exactly?
It is, in our current terminology, cloning, yes but not identical reproductions (as those are not a genetically sound improvement on the human genome evolutionarily speaking so I made "repros" taboo and "illegal" though people still make them--as humans are prone to do with any process, event or thing which is labeled "forbidden." We always seem to want that which we cannot have)
I was pretty sure I clearly explained early on that the Breeding Selections were how humans reproduced--in a petri dish, artificially germinating so to speak. Then there is a "creche" in which they are "grown" to adulthood/full term. I confess I did change my mind during edits (compared to in the 1980s when I wrote the series) about there being NO children in the human population. I wanted Privilege Class to have children but everyone else is grown to adulthood in vivo (creche) just to add another layer of "unfairness" to the Privilege Class rights. I didn't see the point to it, though, other than being "unfair" so in editing, I made there be NO human children at all. Did I miss a spot of correction there? I hope not! The editing process was MASSIVE and even with eight (8) people helping, I think I missed some things I should have fixed.
Ah, you say that Shayla cannot have Kyree... What do you mean by that? I thought that Kyree is her mate sanctioned by the Chiefs... Maybe you mean that since Shayla don't want to come back with Phoenician, and Kyree is 100% Phoenician, therefore she knows that he will never come with her? Right?
So this point, due to the terminology, has confused a lot of people. I did explain it, at length, via a conversation Shayla has with Brennan (view spoiler) so you'll just have to wait for Books 1 and 3 to come out for the long explanation. Here's the short version:
Phoenician Mating: like a betrothal, arranged in early childhood or as early as birth. It is arranged by the Seven Chiefs not the parents or participants. The Clan Mothers make suggestions; the Seven Chiefs make Matings.
Once Mated, the couple may have sex with each other or with other people; it's not a sexual "Mating" but a more relevant one. Ultimately, it will lead to offspring.
A Mating can go on "forever" but the next phase, a Joining, cannot occur until the Mating is "sanctified" by the Seven Chiefs which I was pretty explicit about saying Shayla and Kyree's was not. They have remained "unrequited lovers" for all these years. They were Mated (matched up) as children but have never been allowed to follow through and Join so they are both kinda stuck in limbo.
It's funny how you got that exactly backwards, Mei and I don't think you were the only one. I think either Fayley or Xdjy did, too.
(view spoiler)
I wanted to cut this book and the entire series down (by elminating one book to keep it at 3 or 4 instead of 5) I tried combining points from various books into this one. Sounds like on a lot of points, I failed. I think I cut the wrong things out when I sliced and diced, as well as moving things to other books that might have served better here. I just felt 200,000 (or more) words was way too much to get everything in there! This book was 145,000 when I started edits. I added almost 100,000 words out of Books 1 and 3 into this one to elminate one of the original books from the final series. The more I get out in this book, the less I need to fit into the next one, etc.
And even with 13 years experience with humans, she IS still very naive for me. For example, she believes that Jorle's addiction can be controlled by making him take scans everyday and then is surprised when she discovered that he has been cheating all the time... how naive is that?
Very!! You are absolutely correct here. This was what I intended you to understand :)
P.S. Please forgive me if I make some errors... English is not my native tongue...
Your English is perfectly understandable. I had no trouble at all! Plenty of native speakers don't have perfect grammar *wink*
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
WOW Marjorie!!! Thanks for the very exhaustive reply! :DLet me tell you that I absolutely ADORE long, long, extremely long books! I think I read Lord of the rings at least 8 times in 3 languages, so if you want to write a long one, don't worry I'll absolutely read it! :D
Mmmm. I understood the explanation about human breeding. What I wanted to know is how. I mean, there are donors (I suppose they're those giving their genetic material) and multiple ones; as in case of Reif and Brennan and probably Joshua. So, if my idea of how the DNA recombinates is correct, the would have to start form one and split it and then substitute certain proteins with those of other donors...? Very complicated...
Another thing is that Josha is fertile. Does it mean that he can get Shayla pregnant (hypothetically)? And if there is one man fertile, does it mean that there could be one female fertile also? *mumble*
Shayla one time said that she's completely different, genetically speaking, from humans: how different (besides the throw, obviously)? Does it mean that human and Phoenicians are incompatible? ...or not?
To touch a different note: I would like to know why it is said that your book has explicit sexual content? I didn't find it so... it's rather bland in comparison to other books. It is not very violent neither... What it is is very "mental", meaning you have to use your brain while reading.
...about the spoiler tag... I don't know how to use it... *blush*
Now I must run home... I'll be back on Monday! Have a nice week-end!
You can use the spoiler tag by typing as follows:<_spoiler> texts containing spoiler <_/spoiler>
without all the "_".
The Reply will be extremely interspersed.Mei wrote: "Another question that came up to me is: how come the human government allowed Shayla to become a Councillor? If I understood correctly the class system, only the Privileged Class citizens can enter the Council... and Shayla is Phoenician..."
Marjorie wrote: "A-ha! Finally someone asked. I was waiting for that one. ... Let me say this, and only this, it's related to her having been kidnapped and abused by Dramond and it's part of the "plea bargain" when Dramond is put on trial for that. It's all part of the Plan (capital "P")"
[St. Onge]:
It never occurred to me, somehow, that Shayla was theoretically excluded from the Council. I tended to ass/u/me, I guess, that as the only Phoenician among humans, she was an exception to most rules.
Mei wrote: "If Proctors are Second Class, how can a Proctor be Heir to the Administrator?"
[St. Onge]:
A fair amount of legally dubious stuff is being accomplished by old-fashioned subtrefuge and abuse of power.
Mei wrote: "Also, I'm insanely curious to know how exactly works the reproduction for these humans (as they're sterile, no?) Are they cloning each other? No.... I don't think plain cloning is involved... it must be more than this, but how exactly?"
[St. Onge]:
It was fairly clear (to me, anyway) that the genomes are sliced and diced on the lab bench, to create the basis for the next generation. It's also the way that our Friday's namesake's genome was created in Heinlein's novel.
Mei wrote: "Ah, you say that Shayla cannot have Kyree... What do you mean by that? I thought that Kyree is her mate sanctioned by the Chiefs... Maybe you mean that since Shayla don't want to come back with Phoenician, and Kyree is 100% Phoenician, therefore she knows that he will never come with her? Right?"
Marjorie wrote: "Phoenician Mating: like a betrothal, arranged in early childhood or as early as birth. It is arranged by the Seven Chiefs not the parents or participants. The Clan Mothers make suggestions; the Seven Chiefs make Matings.
[SNIP]
"A Mating can go on 'forever' but the next phase, a Joining, cannot occur until the Mating is 'sanctified' by the Seven Chiefs which I was pretty explicit about saying Shayla and Kyree's was not. They have remained 'unrequited lovers' for all these years. They were Mated (matched up) as children but have never been allowed to follow through and Join so they are both kinda stuck in limbo."
[St. Onge]:
nbsp; And note that Kyree is in the Phoenician zone, while Shayla is stuck among the humans. It's a very long distance relationship.
Not gonna copy/paste all of that in nicely the way Stephen St. Onge did because you did too nice a job, Stephen :)I'd add also that whenever Shayla goes back to Phoenician land to see Kyree and "visit" (read "have sex with him") she is not alone. Raif goes with her and stands by, essentially twiddling his thumbs (so to speak) waiting for her to finish whatever it is she needs to do. He does spend a bit more time talking to the Seven Chiefs than she does, actually, but she and Kyree definitely do not have an opportunity to go--unnoticed--off somewhere and Join despite the Ruling against it. They have been explicitly told they are NOT to be Joined "yet" and that's been going on for 13 years.
That's effectively why Shayla came up with her plan to "make her own Kyree" if they wouldn't let her have "her" real one. I'll get into this a bit more in Book 3 (which is -- at MINIMUM -- 2 years away from coming out as I'm doing Book 1 next) but there is a certain "drive" in Phoenicians to Join with their Mates. The Seven Chiefs don't Mate young couples by accident. It's quite deliberate :) You could even say the Seven Chiefs are conducting their own little breeding experiment vis a vis the Phoenicians. Oh wait, I did say that! LOL. Yeah I hid it but I did say it. That is part of their Plan. Part. Just a Part.
When I finally reveal the "point" of the Plan in the last book of the series, I think everyone is going to be sorely disappointed, like an anti-climax, the way I was, myself. I wrote it years ago and at the time, though it was good. Then a few months later, even I was disappointed when I re-read it. I've come up with all kinds of alternate "endings" to use instead but I think I'll just see how the Plan ends up changing as I edit Books 3 and 4. Who knows what editing might do to the story? That's why I'm writing Book 1 next and then editing Book 3 to match the published 1 and 2. Once it's published, I won't change it but until then, Let's see what happens! (as Emperor Gregor would say)
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Ok, I am back to reading Conditioned Response since I finished American Gods. I used an audiobook of Mark Tufo's, Zombie Fallout to "cleanse my palate" :-). That worked nicely. @Marjorie-no, despite finishing Gaiman's American Gods, I never grew to like it. Almost no plot to drive the story, and the characters were unlikable (at least to me). But, as I said before I have to lead a book club discussion on that book, so I dutifully finished it. Whew! What a lot of work.
Now, some fun! I am enjoying this thread. I will comment more when I am further along. I have been careful to avoid reading spoilers.
Kerry, thank you so much for reassuring me that I am not the only person in the world who just considered reading that book "work." I barely have time to read at all. It really ought to be fun, not work. It's funny but I wondered if maybe my mind were too stressed with all the chaos in my life right now (I'm barely sleeping I'm so stressed out) so I "tested" my ability to pick up a book and get "lost" in the story--with one I knew I'd like because I've read it 3 or 4 times already. Son of the Morning by Linda Howard. It's a pseudo time-travel Romantic Suspense that was written in 1997 so it's incredibly "dated" (which is hilarious to me now actually) I swear, it couldn't have taken me more than 5 minutes to read the first 20 pages and be TOTALLY hooked into this story again--clearly, my ability to read under stress is not an issue ((grin))
I didn't remember it starting out this way either so it's clearly been "long enough" between reads for me to enjoy it again. It's possibly the ONLY romance novel with time travel that I have actually enjoyed. I love time travel but romance novelists typically do NOT have a clue how to write such a story. I think Linda Howard simply lucked out writing this one because she based it on a fake Templar myth. It's sort of like that movie Timeline that launched Gerry Butler's career pre-300 :) Just with a heck of a lot more sex (and very explicit sex at that!) Anyone who's kind of into romance novels and really likes time travel stories you might really enjoy it, too. If you're looking for something totally new and different. Just remember to laugh at the "modem cables" descriptions. Linda Howard wasn't a computer geek even for the definition of the term back then!
I'd also like to thank you, Kerry, for (a) cleansing your pallette (haha) and (b) saying that getting back to CondResp is going to be "fun"!! I'm blushing :) Thank you. I'm so thrilled you perceive it in such a positive light even after hardly reading any of it yet. I sure do hope you managed to avoid the spoilers because, honestly, there've been a lot of misbehaving readers on this thread - we've all been talking and spoilering all over the place!!
I might not be as active on the thread this week as I need to lock down a place to live and MOVE already but I should be moved by Monday June 25 so I'll be back online then or die trying!
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
I finished it on Saturday! After posting my last series of questions, I read the answer to those in the book 10 minutes later when I resumed reading it! LOL!
I admit that I cryed at the end and even before the end! WOW!
I got to say that I like Shayla less now than I did before - she's soooo spoilt! I hope she'll grow up during the 3rd book. I also hope I'll understand her better when I read the 1st book, but right now I just want to slap her and tell her to think and THEN act, not the contrary!
I liked very much Joshua/Andrew. Even if his reasoning is not always right, at least I can understand the why behind his actions.
I loved Charlie (can I have one of my own? *wink*)! He's soooo sweet!
All in all, a GREAT book! Tell me if I'm wrong assuming that there's a trace of Lazarus Long in your book? I think I notice it in there...
Well, Marjorie/Friday, great job! I have just one tiny complaint: I have to weit for the next books!!!!!
@Xdyj - Thanks for the tip about spoilers! :D
Mei wrote: "I finished it on Saturday!Yay!!! I should not be worried, but I still am worried everytime someone starts the book, that they won't finish it (like I could not finish American Gods) Especially worried when someone has trouble understanding the story but questions are good! You were understanding and thinking, Mei! :)
After posting my last series of questions, I read the answer to those in the book 10 minutes later when I resumed reading it! LOL!
I admit that I cryed at the end and even before the end! WOW!
Yeah, well, I didn't want to say that but....I'm glad you cried. That sounds strange to say. I think it's hard for an Author to make a Reader cry (or actually laugh, right out loud) and I cried at a lot of things in this book (as a reader myself) but no one has mentioned crying for a while, just not connecting to the characters or not understanding the characters so I'm really glad to hear you "got it" Mei -- even if it made you cry. Feel better after the ending though, right? I tried to make the very end a little uplifting so you wouldn't end with all the tears.
I got to say that I like Shayla less now than I did before - she's soooo spoilt!
Yes! She is! When people call her all kinds of things (immoral, insensitive, uncaring) ALL I can think is "No, she's just a spoiled brat--but she doesn't know any better." And she doesn't. She was raised to be spoiled--and to be totally dependent on Raif, which you now know, won't keep working for her. Sadly.
I hope she'll grow up during the 3rd book. I also hope I'll understand her better when I read the 1st book, but right now I just want to slap her and tell her to think and THEN act, not the contrary!
I liked very much Joshua/Andrew. Even if his reasoning is not always right, at least I can understand the why behind his actions.
I don't know if I'd say Shayla "grows" up in Book 3. I think I like her less in Book 3 actually but....
I loved Charlie (can I have one of my own? *wink*)! He's soooo sweet!
Isn't he? I absolutely fell in love with Charlie writing this book in the 1980s and I think I lost a little of it in the editing of 2011 but only because Raif takes over the entire book so much, so few even notice Charlie in Raif's shadow, let alone form an opinion about him. He's supposed to be the "backbone" of the series - in Book 3, when Shayla gets even more annoying, it will be Charlie who "comes to the rescue" (again). He sure does have to teach her a lot considering SHE is supposed to be teaching HIM.
All in all, a GREAT book! Tell me if I'm wrong assuming that there's a trace of Lazarus Long in your book? I think I notice it in there...
Absolutely, there is! I was in love with Laz for years (and I don't mean "Laz the Sailor" who's a reader here *haha*) I must have read and re-read
Methuselah's Children and Time Enough for Love about 20 times in the late 70s and early 80s. I read other things, too, of course (I have read every book Heinlein ever wrote--even the boring awful ones!) but I kept coming back to those two because the Howard Families and how he set them out and made them work and the people in there were just so interesting to me. One of my all-time favorite stories out of the 10,000 or books I've read in my 51 years of life. Definitely.
There's also a bit of Asimov's The Caves of Steel or Pebble in the Sky or whichever book it was that had the story set on Aurora about the woman who had the robot she had fallen in love with, turned off and standing in the alcove. I remember that one scene soooooo clearly, probably because I remember immediately wanting to "save the robot" (LOL)
Well, Marjorie/Friday, great job! I have just one tiny complaint: I have to weit for the next books!!!!!"
I'm so glad you enjoyed it, Mei! That's a LOT of English to read, too, for someone whose first language is not English so BIG THANK YOU for getting through such a long book in a foreign language. I'm so glad you were able to enjoy it and understand it SO well! I learned that from reading Heinlein, too: Never use a fifty dollar ($50) word when a nickel ($0.05) word will do! ^)^ I tried but I do love some $50 words.
You won't have to wait until next year for the next book. Don't forget I have the short story (novella raelly) When Minds Collide coming out. There's a snippet of a first draft (now changed a bit but essentially this is what happens) on my blog here on Goodreads.
http://bit.ly/WMC-snippet
I can't post the whole thing because Amazon makes you promise not to post it anywhere but there if you want to put it into KDP Select - but only for 90 days. After I publish it, 90 days later, it'll be available everywhere else, too. Oh and it'll be FREE. That's the best part, right? :)
Now if I can just find a new place to live and get moved into it before my lease here runs out, life will be good again.
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
I'm just glad to have read a very, very good book! It was not a really long read when you enjoy it! :DI've read longer ones thou they were a series (Lord of the rings, Game of Ice and Fire, Riftwar, etc...) and I always say: if the book is good, more pages there are all the better! So just keep writing! *wink*
I'm also glad that I cried - it means to me that the book managed to convey feelings and that's great (I'm twisted that way!)!
I LOVED all three books about Elijah and Daneel - it's such a cool blend of SF and crime/mistery, really masterful! I remember very well the story about the the Auroran woman falling in love with her robot! There's also an Asimov short story with the same theme, I think it was titled "Liar" where the woman falls in love with a telepathic robot - it was great too!
I'll definitely read all your future works! I'm just so NOT a patient person! :D
Mei wrote: "I LOVED all three books about Elijah and Daneel - it's such a cool blend of SF and crime/mistery, really masterful! I remember very well the story about the the Auroran woman falling in love with her robot! There's also an Asimov short story with the same theme, I think it was titled "Liar" where the woman falls in love with a telepathic robot - it was great too!"Mei, there are WAY more than 3 books you know? Asimov wrote a huge number of Lije Bailey stories and R. Daneel shows up in the Foundation series too. Have you read Robots and Empire You'll need to read all the robot books first AND the Foundation books and then you can REALLY appreciate Robots and Empire but it's a good story all on its own.
The story about the Auroran woman falling in love with her robot and shutting him down (but keeping him standing there in her alcove) haunts me to this day. It was the primary inspiration for Charlie. Hands down (haha)
I think I remember Liar! - or whatever it was called. I remember a story about a telepathic robot who lied anyway :) I think that was where Asimov started crossing over into the Foundation Empire actually. It's been a long, long time since I read any of those books. I think I need to read them all again (only read them 20 times you know?)
Edited to add: I found this anthology by Hephaestus Books but I have no clue who or what Hephaestus Books is and/or what their connection might be to the original publisher of anthologies including Liar! but I know I must own a copy of it. I probably already moved that box into the storage unit. Darnit.
I'm not a patient person either. I wish I didn't need to worry about having a place to live or paying bills or cooking or cleaning or running the Twitter account and managing a Facebook Page (or three) and I definitely don't like having to spend time dealing with my laptop having issues. ALL of those things mean I'm NOT writing the next book. I'd sooooo much rather just write the next book and the one after that etc. and let someone ELSE run my life for me. Alas, I have not yet found the man who will make me the perfect wife in that way (LOL) Most successful authors do, in fact, have a spouse doing all those things for them so they can focus on just writing the next book. It's a pure luxury. I'm just a starving artiste for now.
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Yes, I know that there are more books with Daneel; of course, at the end of the original Foundation they do meet Daneel and he "merges" with the Auroran (?) hermaphrodite (if I remeber correctly... *blush*... it was sooo long ago that I read it...)!If I remeber correctly (see above...) Liar! was included in one of the first Robot anthology, whose where the 3 laws were introduced.
O poor you... I'm sorry to hear about your problems.. Maybe you should concentrate to finding your perfect man, so then you could concetrate to writing! *wink*
... but, if my hubby is any indicator about how men manage the house (cleaning, etc.) then I think you're more "free" without! LOL
message 74:
by
Jonathan , Reader of the fantastic
(last edited Jun 23, 2012 12:35AM)
(new)
-
added it
I'm properly into it and while I love the world you've created there and think the writing is great I can't quite bring myself to like the characters.edit: done. Really liked the second half a lot more than the first.
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Jonathan wrote: "I'm properly into it and while I love the world you've created there and think the writing is great I can't quite bring myself to like the characters.edit: done. Really liked the second half a lo..."
Thank you so much for writing such a great review, Jonathan, and as I said there, also thank you for the opportunity to be a group read. It was a real learning experience for me!
@Kerry - I'm not abandoning you and there is still a week left to the "official" group read so feel free to comment here when you're done (or as you progress) if you'd like to chat about the book. I think there are 2 others also reading but I don't know who they are.
A request from me, the Author
I'll preface this request with the note that no one "has to" do anything. You were given this book free to support the group read and I've already gotten "repaid" through all the comments and reviews posted here on Goodreads.
So my request is this, to anyone/everyone who used a coupon code at Smaswords to get their free copy, you are "officially" a "paying customer" and have the ability to write/post a review on Smashwords. I would really appreciate it if you'd do that. It doesn't have to be a different review than the one you already posted here, so you can copy/paste your Goodreads review if you'd like -- or you can "edit" yourself and post something else over there. Or you can do nothing.
I'm just asking since you have to be a paying customer to post reviews to Smashwords and anyone using the coupon code is, technically. I'm fairly sure that Smashwords will automatically send you a review reminder notice sometime this week also. I do not control that; they do not manually send it out. It's a script that gets date/time stamped x number of days after your purchase transaction to ask you to review a book you bought within 30 days of purchase. If you post a review before then, the Smashwords script will "see" it and NOT email you a reminder.
Thank you one and all for the comments. If you check out my reply comment to Jonathan's review, you'll see I said I learned so much about my book from all of you! I really meant that; thank you for letting me see my book through your eyes. I think it will definitely have an influence on my choices as I prepare future releases in this series (hopefully, for the better).
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Hi everyone, I'm moved (finally, now begins the unpacking *groan*) and after much confusion using 20-year-old computer equipment at my new landlady's house, I have forced the ancient wireless router (one of the first ones ever made!!) to allow me to connect to the internet with my laptop (which I thought was "old" because I got it in 2009 *hah*) This is definitely an adventure.So I'm trying to catch up here and apparently Goodreads has been busy while I've been moving. Is anyone still reading? I know Jonathan finished while I was moving and I think Kerry had started just before then. Anyone else? Two more people added the book to their TBR shelves over the weekend but I don't see anyone else/new here. Please speak up if you're here and I missed you
((waves))
Okay, I have 3 deadlines in the next 4 days so I'll try to stop in here daily but I might be a fly-by for this last week of the month, gotta see how it all pans out.
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Marjorie wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I'm properly into it and while I love the world you've created there and think the writing is great I can't quite bring myself to like the characters.edit: done. Really liked the..."
@Friday- I am working on it! I am about 70% done and loving it. Can't wait to see how it ends, especially since I have read other people's reactions to the ending.
I really like the book. Your writing is outstanding. I am very impressed! I will be sure to post a review on GR and on Smashwords. And, I can't wait to read more of this story line.
Glad your move is over. I HATE moving. Did it seven times in 10 years and that did me end. I haven't moved since and, if I have to again, I plan to pay someone else to do it for me :-).
Hope your unpacking goes quickly and painlessly!
Thanks, Kerry, you're making me smile :) And I'm thrilled you're already at 70% - I'm a little envious you're at the best part now, too!I'm not unpacking as quickly as I'd like but my goal is to get the "prequel" story When Minds Collide published in time for the Smashwords Summer Blowout Sale (also known as the Summer/Winter Sale held annually in the month of July) Since everything on the site will be eligible to go on sale (at the author's discretion), I want to be sure to have something to offer cheap or free. I'll be changing the price of Conditioned Response all month long - to keep people guessing (haha)
Can't wait to read your review and/or comments. Remember to use the SPOILER tag for all those juicy bits! It's like Christmas morning for me everytime someone posts a review. Did you guys know that? :-)
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
According to Kindle, I'm about 40% through. As Jonathan said, enjoying the world you've created; the characters, not so much. But we'll see how it goes - I don't hate them, after all! I like the way you write (decent grammar is very important to me, particularly in a sci-fi setting), and I'm impressed with the ideas you're bringing to the table. However, the whole sexual tension thing is getting to be a bit of a bore. Hopefully Raif and Shayla will sort out that particular problem soon.
And I'm glad to see it's not just me who wants to slap some sense into Shayla! Really, for all her thinking about how she can't get along without these very important men in her life, she plays fast and loose with their affections and feelings.
Otherwise, so far, so good!
Sue-Ann wrote: "According to Kindle, I'm about 40% through. As Jonathan said, enjoying the world you've created; the characters, not so much. But we'll see how it goes - I don't hate them, after all!"Hi Sue-Ann! So glad you started reading the book! And hey, it's even still June! haha, kidding, it doesn't matter when you start; hopefully, it'll be read in July, August, September and every month thereafter!
It's funny, but the characters being not likeable does indeed seem to be the #1 complaint, especially early on in the book, before anyone has a chance to grow on you. It was, in part, deliberate, as I wanted to reflect specific people and specific aspects of an extremely unpleasant Dystopian future. I also wanted certain people ((view spoiler)) to actually have to go through a transformation of character. If a person isn't flawed, what's there to fix/change? haha, I guess I really don't "need" to make them so unlikeable in order to make the reader want them to change; I just did. I think at "The End" we are all glad to see who lives and who dies and who has finally come to their senses (view spoiler)
"I like the way you write (decent grammar is very important to me, particularly in a sci-fi setting), and I'm impressed with the ideas you're bringing to the table. However, the whole sexual tension thing is getting to be a bit of a bore. Hopefully Raif and Shayla will sort out that particular problem soon."
Thank you for the grammatical praise ;) Actually, I had a few editorial battles over it, as I use King's English and loathe the entire basis of the Americanized slang style in the Chicago Manual of Style. Oddly, that was what all of my editors kept citing as though it were some sacred text. It was the problem! I finally just ignored their grammatical edits and did my own proofreading. By then, 98% of the typos (literal mistypings, as opposed to errors because I "didn't know better") had been caught anyway.
As to Raif and Shayla, (view spoiler)
"And I'm glad to see it's not just me who wants to slap some sense into Shayla! Really, for all her thinking about how she can't get along without these very important men in her life, she plays fast and loose with their affections and feelings. "
She does, doesn't she? Not just the men either. She just doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. Oh yeah, that's right, she's a spoiled little brat who's never known any other way. Don't worry, she'll screw her head on straight by "The End" but it'll take (view spoiler)for her to do it.
Ah! No wonder I like your grammatical style. I, too, am a follower of the King's English. THAT'S why it all seemed so, well, right - even with the American spelling. I must say I was frequently annoyed by certain references (view spoiler). I suppose that will be explained later in the book, but right now it leaves me dissatisfied (view spoiler), although I hope this will prove to be my fevered imaginings.
Sexual abuse trope? I'm not sure what you mean, Sue-Ann and since the reference to Dramond's rape of Shayla (as a teenager) is in Chapter One, it's not much of a spoiler, so I'm not bothering to hide my reply. I think I mentioned this already, upthread, in response to either Xdyj or Mei, or possibly as far back as Stephen St. Onge's comments, but the whole incident with Shayla and Dramond occurred when she was a teenager and will, therefore, be in Book 1, which is set in a time thirteen years prior to Conditioned Response. TBH, I think a lot of people will be very unhappy with how I end up arriving at not allowing her to just kill Dramond right there and then. I've drafted a certain percentage of Book 1 and that part of it is pretty clear in my mind, which is precisely why I felt comfortable referencing it as "history" in Book 2. I'll try very hard to make it "reasonable" in Book 1 that she must wait but the whole incident serves a different purpose: it serves The Plan. There is always a Plan!
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
@Marjorie, I finished it!! Wow! Great! I found that it definitely did pick up speed as I got to the middle of the story. You introduced so many fascinating concepts. I can't wait to see how they each resolve. (view spoiler)Thank you for this wonderful story. Thank you for providing it to me for free through Smashwords. I can't wait to see where this story goes! This has been a lot of fun to read this work while interacting with the author :).
Kerry, wow, you flew through the second half. Guess that confirms yet again that I need to work on my pacing for "openers" eh? :-( Worst part is, I really liked the opener for this book, the calm, boring, political scene. I think I just needed to clip down Chaptesr 2-5 or something.See? As much as you're enjoying reading while interacting with me, I'm learning valuable lessons and able to get useful feedback while you read. The million-dollar question, of course, is whether or not I can implement what I learn/know is wrong and do it right next time. We shall see (or as Emperor Gregor of my favorite Vorkosigan Saga says, Let's see what happens.)
Kerry, you are welcome for the free book. As I've said before, the best way to thank me is with your comments or a review here on Goodreads and/or on Smashwords. Goodreads takes a while to post reviews. Were you the Smashwords user "Kaydee McAvoy"? I saw that review posted last night. If that was you, thank you :)
PLEASE NOTE IF YOU'RE STOPPING BY HERE ON/AFTER JUNE 29th:
Now that we are at the end of the month, I'm making the book free again for the next couple of days. Everyone who read the book, please tell all your friends how to get a copy FREE at Smashwords by using coupon code PU47X at checkout (coupon expires midnight Pacific Time on June 30, 2012).
I'll also be entering the book as FREE in the site-wide Smashwords Summer/Winter Sale but for only one day (July 1, 2012), effectively making Conditioned Response free for 3 days in advance of the 4th of July (American Independence Day) so June 29 (today), June 30, July 1.
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/150558
I'll be tweeting the code @phoenicianbooks but please feel free to repost this note to your Facebook, your other Goodreads groups or anywhere else you think your friends find their eBooks.
Now that everyone here's read the book, do you agree it's earned its place as the #2 Best Beach Read for 2012 (dropped down to #2 when someone added Hunger Games to the list *wink*) or that it's still the #1 Hottest SciFi?
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Marjorie wrote: "Sexual abuse trope? I'm not sure what you mean, Sue-Ann and since the reference to Dramond's rape of Shayla (as a teenager) is in Chapter One, it's not much of a spoiler, so I'm not bothering to hi..."Okay, I've been reading a lot about book and movie tropes recently, so the abuse by Dramond stood out for me. I confess I am tired of sexual abuse being the backstory of so many female characters, but I guess that is one that will never go away (and since there is a whole book about Shayla's earlier experiences on the way, it's more than simple throwaway references). I think what irks me about it is the fact that on the one hand, she's been abused by Dramond, and on the other, there are all these constant references to her powers and strength. It feels disjointed to me. But then, I'm not even halfway through, so who knows, maybe it'll be resolved to my satisfaction and I'll understand why she didn't do anything to him back then (although I guess that is more likely to be answered in the first book, yes?).
Ahhh, okay, I get you now, Sue-Ann. It felt to you very much like I was just using the mention of a rape as a token bit of drama or something, right? No, not at all.In all of my books (especially my Romantic Suspense under my real name), I mention and highlight the entire issue of human trafficking in all of its flavors and colors and especially focus on abuse of children--not limited to sexual molestation though I confess the pedophile Villian does show up often. Actually, I should say that one of the many villianous things about many of my Villians is that they are, among other vile things, pedophiles. I was never, personally, sexually molested as a young child. I was, however, sexually active as a teenager and I think now, as a 51-year-old woman, that was probably too young. I was peer-pressured into opening that door and I think, in retrospect, it was out of character for me to have caved to the pressure. I rebelled in every other way, refusing to be "normal" just to please the adults or peers around me.
I won't say I was abused, per se, but I definitely saw what was abuse (of others, agemates), and a lot of it, dating back to when I was 5 or 6 and running right through my mid-20s. Then I finally stopped seeing quite so much "abuse" as what I'd say was criminal activity (women being raped). Unfortunately, in the 1980s, rape was pretty common (1 in 9 women would be raped prior to turning 20 years old and often raped a 2d time prior to turning 40 years old--and those statistics were based only on the reported rapes which were estimated in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, as being less than 50% of actual incidents). Even worse was that gang rapes were en vogue in the USA at that time, not sure why, but if you look at our culture then and the context of our sexual diseases, you can see how it made sense for the time and place--not for the women, just for the men.
Women are subjected to a lot of injustices and as a gender and a culture (human culture, not any specific country, as all nationalities seem to have the rape and abuse-of-women and children disease, none being immune), we women seem to put up with it. We certainly haven't removed our young male children from the influence in order to raise them with any sensibilities or self-respect or sense of HOW to be good men instead of ...well, the majority of men in the world today are struggling to figure out what exactly is expected of them while women go around expecting men to read minds. That's a vast generalization and clumps all cultural variations together but I think it sums up a 100,000 foot level of human culture. I think the solution is for females to remove males and train them without influence of adult males. My solution will NEVER be implemented, so we'll never find out. I might have to write THAT story one day, though and it'll be hard not to turn it into a farce of Amazon Women Attack! :-)
Bottom line, Sue-Ann, not only was it not a token effect for drama, it was a huge underlying political issue to me simply mentioned in passing because I didn't want to put this kind of lecture into a book and as you can see, once I start talking about it, I do have a passionate stance to assert.
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Sue-Ann " I'm impressed with the ideas you're bringing to the table. However, the whole sexual tension thing is getting to be a bit of a bore..."I had a similar experience Sue-Ann, I was intrigued by the ideas for the world and culture and exasperated by the dragging sexual tension. Perhaps if it had been more of an undercurrent with less constancy and brashness (crassness?) it wouldn't have jarred.
Perhaps if I had liked Shayla more I would have cared about her love life. The crazy thing is my favourite character is Rafe, but if I removed everything involving Rafe the story would have been better. It would have made more sense for Shayla to want to replace her Phonecian love if she hadn't been in love with Rafe, and we would have skipped to the good bit.
Fayley wrote: "Sue-Ann said: I'm impressed with the ideas you're bringing to the table. However, the whole sexual tension thing is getting to be a bit of a bore..."I had a similar experience Sue-Ann...Perhaps if I had liked Shayla more I would have cared about her love life. The crazy thing is my favourite character is Rafe, but if I removed everything involving Rafe the story would have been better. It would have made more sense for Shayla to want to replace her Phonecian love if she hadn't been in love with Rafe, and we would have skipped to the good bit. "
Okay I have to say something here because (a) it's Raif not Rafe (and the irony there is I mispelled it originally and didn't realize it and just carried the misspelling...so misspell his name please *grin*) and (b) do DO remember my telling you I added him into the story back in 2005, right, Fayley??!!
I think it's HILARIOUS that you would have liked the story the way I had it before, when Raif was not in it at all. It really was a lot less complicated, I have to admit, and I never really expected the whole love story at all (never imagined it in the 80s when I wrote the series).
I dunno, now that he's there, I cannot imagine the world of the Phoenicians without Raif....except it will be without Raif :-( I definitely think that's a chuckle-worthy observation/conclusion, Fayley. Thanks! I love irony!
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Raif is the most like able character, and I can imagine some sort of back story where he realizes that he is different to everyone around him, and i also love the influence he had on the other proctors.
I love him Fayley, but I think it's hilarious that you nailed it--he did not "improve" the actual story. He just improved the cast ;-) Ah well. I hope I really will be able to internalize all of the comments I've gotten on this thread when I ultimately sit down to write Book 1 (Raif's story - that's the working title ;-) You people have given me such useful feedback on Conditioned Response! I only wish I'd had you folks "beta read" it BEFORE I published it (LOL)
Marjorie wrote: "Ahhh, okay, I get you now, Sue-Ann. It felt to you very much like I was just using the mention of a rape as a token bit of drama or something, right? No, not at all.In all of my books (especially..."
Well, that makes more sense. I think I am overly sensitive to the idea of sexual abuse being used for dramatic effect because of my own history. I also wondered why there was so much reference to the Proctor creches being Dramond's virtual hunting grounds; now I see where it all ties in.
I think it's also likely that I am annoyed with Shayla for what I perceive as her not fighting back, when there is constant reference to her Phoenician skills and strength. Not that not fighting back makes anyone less deserving of respect or sympathy, but it certainly colours my perception of characters in the fictional realm.
You are far from alone on this stance, Sue-Ann. I'm not sure why so many people really want Shayla to have been violent at age 14 when she was assaulted and not yet aware of herself let alone her skills; but at age 27, when this story takes place, she will finally get her vengeance. Several people have taken issue with that too. There were precisely two (both male) who actually "got" what was going on (both 13 years earlier and at the end of this book) so I know I did put it in there, but I guess I didn't make it "in your face" enough as only two readers have "gotten" it. Thus far anyway. I definitely intend to keep selling this book ((grin)) Actually, now that I have finally gotten off my duff and re-established my auto-tweets last night, I have started selling books again. Wow, amazing how that works! :)
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
I'm not quite sure as I read it about a month ago, but IIRC she didn't do anything at 14 due to elder's request b/c it would harm her chances of getting into the political establishment of humans, & she killed Dramond herself instead of letting Joshua handle him in order to deal w/ her PTSD. I'm not sure if there are other reasons though.
Hiya, Xdyj, I'm fairly certain I decidedly did NOT give the reason why she didn't do anything about Dramond as having anything at all to do with the World Council. It is (and was referenced) as being 100% connected to the Plan of the Seven Chiefs.You are absolutely correct about the PTSD-driven overkill of Dramond at the end of Conditioned Response though. Glad to hear a 3rd person "got" it. Most people are just pissed off at the allegedly "cavalier" or "callous" disregard she has for the sacrifice she makes to do it. She isn't cavalier or callous in my mind; she's simply been waiting (not exactly patiently) for 13 years and no way, no how, is some Outsider (Joshua Andrew Caine) going to tell her to give it up now.
The Plan was slightly sideways from just "getting into the political establishment of the humans." I really don't want to give it all away :) but for this one point (view spoiler)
Argh!! I hate this. I wish I could just release them all NOW! Unfortunately the rest of the books definitely need to have deep edits made and the series would do better having Book 1 come out next...might be calling it Book 0 after some discussion of number volumes over on Apocalypse Now. ((I have a cunning plan. I shall connect the discussions of my book between readers if it kills me! *muahaha*))
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
X - there are two things that will happen in Book 3. Since that book is almost 2 years away from publication (unless I get rich overnight and can work on my publishing career full-time without interruption in which case it would be about 8 months from now) I really cannot see spoilering it here and now. Even if I found myself under a rainfall of money and could focus on nothing but editing/publishing the next 3 books (or the previous and the next or whatever books), I don't really see myself spoilering something so key to the series before publication. Aftewards, sure, but part of the fun (for me as a reader of others' series anyway) lies in discovering the plot as it unfolds. It's hidden but in there...read Conditioned Response again :) maybe you'll like it more than 3 stars next time through ((grin)) I guarantee you'll see things the second time through that you absolutely MISSED the first time! I deliberately hid enough Easter Eggs that you cannot possibly "miss" them.-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
For all interested parties, which is possibly everyone here but I know some of you didn't enjoy my book enough to want to read it a second time while others already have begun a second read :) there's a new edition available from Smashwords.http://bit.ly/SW-CondResp
@Sue-Ann, I'm thinking you're the only one left on the discussion still reading, not yet done. The major contextual change/error is in the end of the book so you might want to update your copy before you keep reading. Or get both copies ;)
To everyone else, if (or rather, because) you already bought the book, you're entitled to all updates/revisions ever made, forever and ever, at no additional cost. However, you do have to manually go and get the update. It won't automagically go to your eReader device. Buying the book for ZERO ($0.00) using a coupon code still makes you a "paying customer" as far as Smashwords is concerned.
You don't have to "buy" the book again to get the updated edition. Just go to the book page (above link) and click "Download" for the format you prefer. The page Smashwords gives you will have at least 2 links on it, displaying the dates of the revisions since the moment you purchased the book. Choose the most-recent one.
The are two changes I made for this 2d Edition (besides the title page now saying "2d Edition"):
1) New cover image
Smashwords, Apple iTunes/iBookstore and Amazon all require high-resolution images as of Saturday, July 14, 2012 (and it takes 5-10 days for my book to propagate through to other sites, like Goodreads and/or Apple's iTunes/iBookstore). Also, I got a lot of gaff and advice in other groups about the series numbering, given there's only one book out. So I changed it :) Conditioned Response is now merely "A Phoenician Series Novel." I'm going to try to manually force an update of the image here on Goodreads after I post this.
2) New content
I really hate doing this and hadn't yet despite hearing all kinds of comments that made me think "I wish I'd done it that way after all." I mean, changing the content after release is "wrong" or at least a new edition, so...this is 2d Edition and it is a major contextual change. Kind of like how Orson Scott Card made changes to a couple of his books in 2000 when he released them as "new editions" (except that I'm not OSC *darnit*)
The change is this: there was a discontinuity in Ch. 23 (the conversation in the car between Shayla and JAC where JAC discusses the events that led to his existence) with the rest of the series. When I was editing Conditioned Response, I created a discontinuity and actually realized it during one my dozen and a half re-reads but in the mad rush to release on schedule, I forgot to go back and fix it (argh). No one else had the entire series in their heads, so no one else was able to remind me. It's kind of a massive book with a lot of twisty-turns to the plot so it was enough for my First Readers to keep the plot of Conditioned Response straight internally.
The point did not come to light again until I was reviewing When Minds Collide with the First Reader team. Reader Stephen St. Onge found the contradiction (so blame him *haha*) and I have changed Conditioned Response to match the rest of the series. It's a significant enough plot point that I need it to be correct for the series to work. Joshua Andrew Caine is, as you can tell, a major character and his existence is integral to the series-level story.
THANK YOU again, Stephen, for noting this error!
That's it. Just a new cover image and a content change in Chapter 23. Oh and if you haven't gotten the book yet and you want a FREE COPY now, with both of the new and improved changes. I've reactivated the code (SSWIN) to make the book free via the site-wide promotion. Tell all your friends to get a free copy of the new and improved book -- if you're still willing to recommend it (haha)
-Friday
@phoenicianbooks
Marjorie wrote: "The point did not come to light again until I was reviewing When Minds Collide with the First Reader team. Reader Stephen St. Onge found the contradiction (so blame him *haha*) and I have changed Conditioned Response to match the rest of the series. It's a significant enough plot point that I need it to be correct for the series to work. Joshua Andrew Caine is, as you can tell, a major character and his existence is integral to the series-level story.THANK YOU again, Stephen, for noting this error!. "
First I'm blamed, then I'm thanked ... Obviously, Joshua Andrew is based on yourself!
Okay, I'm finally done! Honestly, as good as your writing was, Friday, this book was a hard slog because I just disliked (most of) the characters so much. I had to put it down repeatedly because I was fuming so much about what one or other of them had said or done. If it weren't for Raif ...
Sue-Ann wrote: "Okay, I'm finally done! Honestly, as good as your writing was, Friday, this book was a hard slog because I just disliked (most of) the characters so much. I had to put it down repeatedly because I was fuming so much about what one or other of them had said or done. If it weren't for Raif ..."Sue-Ann, first of all, thank you for pushing through it if it turned into a slog for you. I really appreciate your not giving up because you totally could have! :) Second, I'm sorry you never quite liked any of the characters. They're complicated people that definitely do not appeal to everyone...except for Raif.
He sure does appeal to everyone. Absolutely everyone. Such a shame (view spoiler) Then again, in the next book, Brennan comes into his own :) You liked Brennan a little, didn't you? He didn't get much stage time (on purpose, as it wasn't his time yet) but he's one of the more amusing characters IMO. He's one of the less complicated ones, anyway. He's "just a Proctor." Nothing more, nothing less, no aspirations for more, not willing to settle for less. He is what he is and he's happy enough with it. Or was until all "this" happened.
Anyway, I'm glad my writing was good enough to keep you from giving up and I'm sorry the story left you feeling...well, not like you had a "Satisfactory Reader Experience" which is always my goal, for all of the many and varied ways different readers can be satisfied. I only ever wish to satisfy something for each one. Ah well.
The short story When Minds Collide is coming along nicely and only has ONE really UNlikeable character: Joshua Scherrer (which is where Joshua Andrew Caine gets his offensiveness). You might like that one but it's taking me forever to edit, not sure why. I think I'm just too picky on my editing. It's worth it but I've picked up perfectionist habits from some of my favorite authors, "belike." (haha)
-Friday
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Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy
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I think you were (a) fixated on Shayla, as you say and (b) influenced by the pink color and your gender-biased associations of that color with "female" so you probably assumed the man's green eyes were supposed to be Shayla's blue ones. Honestly, I cannot figure out how your brain works sometimes!
The first book's cover art will be Shayla's eyes and will be a "male" color, probably greenish (with blue eyes) but it will depend on how much the blue eyes "disappear" against the background. If they don't "pop" the way these did when they were faded and placed against a pink background, then it'll be tan or gold. If green and blue instantly associate in your brain with gender biases again, you'll see her "vulnerable female" eyes and ask why Raif's eyes are blue (LOL) I have the "eyes" image all picked out for Shayla's eyes and they are definitely (going to be) female eyes.
Honestly, going to the blog, even now a year later and having seen it ten thousand times or more, this image of a guy's green eyes stop my heart--and don't remotely look female to me.
In fact, I could stare into those green eyes all day (sigh) Yep, definitely a GUY's eyes.
-Friday
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