American Psycho
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Does it get better?
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Viktoriya
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rated it 1 star
Apr 23, 2012 11:08AM
I am on pg 60 of this book. Am I reading a fashion magazine? So far, it's nothing but designer labels :( So and so wears suit by so-and-so, a tie by so-and-so, a shirt by so-and-so. Yuck!!! Is it really that important to the storyline itself? I am at a point where if I read one more outfit description, I am going to toss the book accross the room :( Please tell me it gets better...
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I suspect people who like this novel have never read it. I've never finished it so will give it the benefit of the doubt. The chapter on Genesis did for me. Less Than Zero is good though. Also short...
You'll get the "overall point" of the descriptions when you've read the book. I actually felt similarly while reading it in the beginning, but to me, it was very rewarding. And, if I recall correctly, they do get reduced a fair bit later on.
So, in short, yes, it gets better. Much, much better. I suspect it's a novel that splits people in two camps, but I'd get beyond page 60 before giving a final judgment. :-)
The insanely detailed descriptions of people's outfits and accessories/ what they eat, drink, consume, etc. are meant to demonstrate the way in which Pat Batemen views the world. To him, people are nothing more than the sum of the choices they make as consumers. This narrative device is meant to both satirize the glitzy, yet spiritually vacant culture of the 1980s, as well as serve as the logical extension of Bateman's sociopathy. As the book continues, Ellis plays around with the causality between Bateman's lack of humanity, and 1980s Manhatten. Either he is a product of his time, or only aware of the details that allign with his twisted interpretation of life. As the reader, you identify with some of Bateman's observations, yet detest (I pray) many of his actions. This is but one facet of a larger theme at work in the novel, which is quite rewarding to see played out. This is Ellis at his finest, so give him a chance to wow you. I believe he will.
the book stays on the same beats, but you become used to it. it's not a great read and could have been 200 pages shorter but it is better than Glamorama. personally i loved ellis's Lunar Park, his attempt at a stephen king novel
YES KEEP READING >thumbs up<
Devin wrote: "The insanely detailed descriptions of people's outfits and accessories/ what they eat, drink, consume, etc. are meant to demonstrate the way in which Pat Batemen views the world. To him, people ar..."
I think you make some excellent points, but there's something I just want to pin down, to extrapolate the nuance of the interpretation. Bateman wants so desperately to fit in with 1980s Manhattan which is one reason why he obsessively catalogues the fashion, music etc.
While superficially he fits in with his friends and colleagues, he's unable to fully integrate with society as he is completely effing insane. Patrick's desperation in fitting in might actually contribute to his misanthropy, the novel suggests in typically abstruse style. His murder might be an overcorrection to the rigid social mores of 1980s Manhattan.
Again, I agree with you, but I just want to expand on it.
I think you make some excellent points, but there's something I just want to pin down, to extrapolate the nuance of the interpretation. Bateman wants so desperately to fit in with 1980s Manhattan which is one reason why he obsessively catalogues the fashion, music etc.
While superficially he fits in with his friends and colleagues, he's unable to fully integrate with society as he is completely effing insane. Patrick's desperation in fitting in might actually contribute to his misanthropy, the novel suggests in typically abstruse style. His murder might be an overcorrection to the rigid social mores of 1980s Manhattan.
Again, I agree with you, but I just want to expand on it.
Andrew wrote: "I suspect people who like this novel have never read it. I've never finished it so will give it the benefit of the doubt. The chapter on Genesis did for me. Less Than Zero is good though. Also shor..."
You never finished it, but you gave it one star?
You never finished it, but you gave it one star?
Just keep reading, but I suggest there are some chapters that you can literally just skip, like for example, the one on Whitney Houston, and there was this other band I can't remember... If I recall, I think that by the time you get close to the 100th or so page, you see the first "kill", but with that being said, that is it, and the story will continue with the same old descriptions, and so on.
I'm about 3/4th's through. Honestly, it's taking a bit longer to read this. I usually am a fast reader. I did skip the Genesisi/Houston chapters, and have learned to vaguely skim the food and clothing descriptions. However, I'm at the point where the book is fantastic. Bloody, gorey..all my favorites. Even though I've seen the movie, I'm looking forward to how to book ends :)
@macgregor. To my everlasting shame, I didn't finish it. This is almost unique for me. Sadly, I loathed the book, thus the one star. It is way too long and I'm just not enamoured of gore fiction, especialy this belaboured.
Thanks for all your great comments. I am starting to skip a little when it comes to fashion. I am beginning to see how Bateman is obsessed with material world: his absolute need to get a tanning bed simply because he heard his friend has it, or his need to have the best of everything. Everything has to be perfect in his world - from looks, to clothes, to electronics.
I wonder, without giving out any spoilers, does the book talk about his upbringing, his family?
macgregor wrote: "Devin wrote: "The insanely detailed descriptions of people's outfits and accessories/ what they eat, drink, consume, etc. are meant to demonstrate the way in which Pat Batemen views the world. To ..."You've expanded quite well, and found the point I was driving at but didn't quite hit. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
Viktoriya: You can glean a little insight on the Bateman family by reading another of Ellis's novels, *The Rules of Attraction.* This book is narrated by Patrick's younger brother, Sean, and good ole' Pat even gets to narrate one chapter as well. You do not learn much that is concrete about the brothers' past, but Ellis makes some suggestions that let your imagination run--pretty clever on the author's part, and part of his post-mod, self-referential/intra-intertexual style.
I love this book. I did find it slow going the first time i read it but have read it quite a few times now and it does get easier. It is among my favourite books and is well worth sticking with.
Hated this book! Thats it
Viktoriya wrote: "I am on pg 60 of this book. Am I reading a fashion magazine? So far, it's nothing but designer labels :( So and so wears suit by so-and-so, a tie by so-and-so, a shirt by so-and-so. Yuck!!! Is it ..."I think all the naming of labels and designers is BEE's point about the 1980s and the excesses and pointless crap rich people thought/think is important. It's kind of a theme with him.
Since I read this in English, which is not my native language, I kind of started to 'over read' these lenghty descriptions in a way that got me straight to the point of knowing what everyone's wearing without really reading about the brand. Btw, this is the first book that almost made me throw up. It's kind of. Oh well, you'll get to that sooner or later.
BUT imho it's absolutely hilarious how Patrick's fiancee doesn't even listen to what he says. He even confesses his crimes to her, if I remember correctly. And the prank he plays on her is both fascinating and ... well, eww.
Does it get better? In one word no. To make matters worse the copy I read was badly edited so several chapters just stopped mid sentence at the bottom of a page. There was just so much hype over it that I guess the copy I read was rushed out of publication without any quality control on it. I don't however think the missing sentences would have made it a better read.
Saturday's wrote: "Does it get better? In one word no. To make matters worse the copy I read was badly edited so several chapters just stopped mid sentence at the bottom of a page. There was just so much hype over..."Oh wow, that sounds horrible. /: The edition I own has tiny text that is printed almost to the edge of the pages. It was hard to read.
YES, this book is EXCELLENT. The point of the details is so you see how psychotic Patrick Bateman is. He sees the world differently than normal people. KEEP READING !
Andrew wrote: "I suspect people who like this novel have never read it."
I actually read the book and really enjoyed it, although I agree that it gets tedious at times. You really have to be 'in the mood' for this book.
I wasn't a big fan of this book. You are right, 30% of the book is fashion.The author even has a chapter dedicated to Whitney Houston hit songs, and another chapter dedicated to Huey Lewis (yes I am serious!).
I pushed through to finish this book, but it took me three weeks. I usually read 4-5 books a month, this book kept putting me to sleep.
Im halfway through, my love of the movie is really the only thing giving me the power to make it to the end, at this point.
Yes, it gets better. But the book is not for everyone, especially those faint of heart or stomach. There are some extremely graphic and brutal scenes in there, so if that isn't something you can handle, you should put the book down. The book is hilarious, though, and brilliant.
I ended up skipping huge portions of it because I was bored to death with it. So much controversy behind it, and after I finally finished it -- even with skipping parts, it seemed to take forever -- I couldn't see what the big deal was.
I can honestly say that I consider this to be one of the finest books ever written, the question of whether or not it 'gets better' seems to be based around the assumption that it is a going to be a plot-heavy narrative. It's not, also, if you're skipping sections then I'm sorry but you can't say that you've read this book, you've read extracts which won't make sense out of the completed whole. It's far from an easy read; the first time I read it I was 17 and did find it a struggle. However, it's a book which rewards all of the effort which you put it. The comment above from Joe nicely summarises the essence of this novel. It is about narcissim, mania and the absurdity of 1980's American Society. It's hardly a book to be read on a Sunday afternoon with a glass of wine, but the prose is just fantastic. As with a text such as Naked Lunch or The New York Trilogy it's not been written to appeal to a mass pulp-book market. It's a novel which covers so so much more.
I'm finding myself getting angry and distressed by people's overly negative reaction to the book. I'm not suggesting that everyone will like it, of course not. But give it more of a chance. If you're finding it a struggle then put it down, read something else and come back to it afresh. I've had to take this approach to 1Q84 as the nature of the text is such that it can be tiresome and often tedious but you should never just 'give up' with a book.
I also find the earlier insinuation that people who are saying they like it 'probably haven't read it' to be bordering on offensive/. If you feel the need to make such petty remarks, go and make them somewhere else. If you've only added this book to your 'read' because you somehow feel that you will become intelligent 'by proxy' then you're just as bad as those people who are opening dismissing it out of hand when they haven't even bothered to read the entire book.
This is also one of the funniest books you will ever read, amongst all of the evisceration, mutilation and decapitation there is some genuine black humour. I can never look at a Jack-O-Lantern or an ATM in the same way again. I can't say it enough, this book is just brilliant.
Now, I realise that I've ranted to quite a degree BUT and this is important; DON'T judge a book by the first sixty pages, you haven't read the whole book, so don't act like you have. More to the point REALLY DON'T skip sections without even attempting to read them. One of the most famous commentaries on this book says that the moment when you realise Patrick is REALLY mad is when he suggests that the departure of Peter Gabriel somehow benefited Genesis musically.
And finally, this book won't make complete sense until you've read it at least twice. I wrote my Undergraduate dissertation on this book and still have so much more to find within it. It really is one of the finest books ever written.
Michael wrote: "I ended up skipping huge portions of it because I was bored to death with it. So much controversy behind it, and after I finally finished it -- even with skipping parts, it seemed to take forever -..."
Perhaps you didn't see what the big deal was because you skipped over huge portions of the novel. Perhaps the big deal isn't what happens but what is being said.
Perhaps you didn't see what the big deal was because you skipped over huge portions of the novel. Perhaps the big deal isn't what happens but what is being said.
Paul, I really liked your "rant" :) I decided to put this book aside for now. Somehow it wasn't hitting the right spot for me at this particular moment in my life. Something in me tells me that I will end up finding "The IT" factor in this book, but it is possible that right now the timing is not right for it.
It could also be the fact that I was reading it on my nook and next time I want to read the actual book.
I am not ready to totally give up on it (Strangely enough, I can't stop thinking about this book, so I know I will pick it up again). I'm "snoozing" it for now :)
macgregor wrote: "Perhaps the big deal isn't what happens but what is being said."Well said, indeed.
Paul wrote: "I can honestly say that I consider this to be one of the finest books ever written..."That's way too much information.
Is it offensive to suggest people who like the novel have only seen the movie? Twas my point, albeit skewed by my warped sense of reality.
Feel free to read one of my books and eviscerate it. I might learn something.
I do not know if it was my pride or the mere desire to complete reading such a novel, but I somehow read every page...and strongly disliked much of it. I understand that the tedious detail plays into the psyche of Batemen and his world, but the point was beaten over our heads with a sledgehammer. The chapters involving his opinions of musicians was dry, and I feel, miscalculated. I felt psychotic after reading this book.
I think this was based on a lot of people Ellis knew who took "the clothes make the man" a little too far. A part of the fashion element that bothers people is because it's real. Some people are like this.
Check out my review here: http://reddkaiman.blogspot.com/2012/0...
I also wrote an article about how authors can have fans in other countries: http://reddkaiman.blogspot.com/2012/0...
Kevin wrote: "I do not know if it was my pride or the mere desire to complete reading such a novel, but I somehow read every page...and strongly disliked much of it. I understand that the tedious detail plays in..."
Why "miscalculated"? Do you mean that it was a misstep on Ellis' part?
Is your primary issue with the novel that it repeats its theme ad nauseum?
Why "miscalculated"? Do you mean that it was a misstep on Ellis' part?
Is your primary issue with the novel that it repeats its theme ad nauseum?
Andrew wrote: "I suspect people who like this novel have never read it."
You are a trendy yet silly man.
You are a trendy yet silly man.
Paul wrote: "I wrote my Undergraduate dissertation on this book and still have so much more to find within it. It really is one of the finest books ever written. "I am sometimes under the impression that the analyzation of a text gives more meaning to it than the author originally intended.
As a hobby artist I participated at some weekly art challenges some years ago that once had 'death' as a theme and I 'accidentally' did a picture with a white animal. I was surprised to see in the commentaries that in the chinese culture death is often associated with a white animal.
It's amazing how you can end up using symbols you're not aware of.
/random
Sparrowlicious wrote: "I am sometimes under the impression that the analyzation of a text gives more meaning to it than the author originally intended"
That's why it's a faux pas to mention the author's intentions in criticism. It's called the intentional fallacy for a reason.
That's why it's a faux pas to mention the author's intentions in criticism. It's called the intentional fallacy for a reason.
Ellis is an acquired taste. I loved American Psycho when I read it, Rules of Attraction was enjoyable as well. I then read Glamorama and had a very hard time getting through it. If nothing else, you have to admit that he is a unique writer.
I read Rules of Attraction first, then started American Psycho. Sometimes when I'm drowning in the descriptions in American Psycho, I have to remind myself that the author also wrote Rules of Attraction, which I enjoyed. That let's me power through.
I am not a person who ever tosses a book, but I made an exception for American Psycho. Maybe I was just not ready for this--hell, I've read many books with horrific scenes in them; it was the flat I-could-care-less tone is what disgusted me. I left it on the coffee table one night, and my dog started chewing on it and then proceeded to vomit. That is exactly how I felt when I'd finished. I think my dog as taste.
The casual, matter-of-fact nature of the violence is kind of the whole point.
"The casual, matter-of-fact nature of the violence is kind of the whole point."I am aware of that, but I don't have to like it. Compare this book with Diary of a Rapist or Crime and Punishment. I guess American Psycho is just not my cup of tea [read "piss"]. I think what attracts many people to books like these, and serial killers in general, is that we have no idea how that sort of mind works. See Hannah Arendt's The Banality of Evil.
I didn't say you had to like it, but you said "it was the flat I-could-care-less tone is what disgusted me." I was merely responding to this.The violence isn't what's important. The book is a satire and a critique of a particular culture. The juxtaposition of the extreme violence with the banality of his social life and interests is the main focus. So, it's not really "about" a serial killer, and his motives aren't what drive the novel (unlike, say Crime and Punishment, which you mention and which is a fantastic novel in its own right).
This book has certainly generated a wide range of opinions: justifications and condemnations. Like the discussions of No Country for Old Men and Lolita, this one has spurred a lot of thought which excites me. I love it when readers feel passionately about a book, not like when they feel passionately about something like Hunger Games or Twilight, but rather when the book stirs up thought. My first copy is gone. I will not buy another. I do not want to climb into a mind like this one. In Vietnam I saw it first hand. Will, you make "the banality of his social life" almost sound like a rationale. I know that many people did not get "A Modest Proposal" when it was published and some still don't, but at least Swift offered a variety of alternatives to eating babies. What does this book offer?
"Will, you make "the banality of his social life" almost sound like a rationale."Rationale? You wouldn't call his social circle boring? What do you think I'm trying to rationalize?
"What does this book offer?"
Humor, thought-provoking dialogue about the trivialities of social status and the acquisition of wealth and possessions, the effects of focusing on appearances rather than empathy and compassion, etc.
Sorry, I meant rationalizing Bateman's actions. Yes, I would call his life boring, but that doesn't justify what he does and, I'm sorry, but I fail to see the humor in mutilation--this is not Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Maybe I just don't get it. However, my son likes Chuck (?), the guy who wrote Fight Club, and from he tells me, it's more of the same so I've never gotten around to reading his books. I can't believe that I have censored myself. Maybe one day.
Why would I be justifying his actions because his life is boring? That would be absurd. I'm actually of the opinion that the violence is all in his head, but that doesn't really matter. It's about the morals of a society in which wealth and possession are the number one goals - what kind of monsters a society like that could produce. A seemingly "normal" person on the outside, but a psychopathic monster in his own mind.The humor wasn't in the violent parts, the humor was in between the lines. His go-to excuse (must return these video tapes), his social circle always confusing each other's names because they all dress/act the same, the characters disregards for any sort of emotional connection in this type of society, the characters off-the-wall hallucinatory interactions with other social classes (e.g. Patrick knocks over a stand of fruits by accident; the Korean owner clutches his lapels and bursts into a song then Patrick proceeds to eats five whole vials of crack), etc.
Explaining the joke tends to detract from the humour. Either you get it, or you don't.
I didn't ask anyone to explain the joke. I only wanted to know what is funny about mutilation.
Viktoriya wrote: "I am on pg 60 of this book. Am I reading a fashion magazine? So far, it's nothing but designer labels :( So and so wears suit by so-and-so, a tie by so-and-so, a shirt by so-and-so. Yuck!!! Is it ..."yes, but that is the point if it, kind of stream of consciousness... and no, it doesn't get better :) oh, btw. if you read closely, you'll see that it only sounds like they had dress-sense, whereas in fact they run around like jesters :)
I understand those finding Ellis' books boring, I personally do like American Psycho and Less than Zero... somehow it is like I sometimes feel and think... okok, not saying I want to rape and torture women, I am more talking about the general nihilism that - I think - he tries to express...
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