Dune by Frank Herbert

[[deleted user]]

John Coyne (writing in "SciFi Strange" blog) reminds us that this is the 50th Anniversary of Dune, when the first installment of the serial appeared in Analog Magazine, in December, 1963. He discusses how Dune Shows its Age.

[Pickle]

R.L. wrote: "I once heard a piece of music inspired by a dance from Dune; where the dancer continues until exhausted. But I can't remember the name of the composer, or even the title of the dance. But yes, unli..."

Didn't Aphex Twin once comment that he always played Digeridoo (EP) at the end of a rave to tire out those still dancing away? (im positive its not this you refer too lol)

From I-Tunes:

Exploring the experimental possibilities inherent in acid and ambience, the two major influences on home-listening techno during the late '80s, Richard D. James' recordings as Aphex Twin brought him more critical praise than any other electronic artist during the 1990s.

Though his first major single, "Didgeridoo," was a piece of acid thrash designed to tire dancers during his DJ sets, ambient stylists and critics later took him under their wing for Selected Ambient Works 85-92, a sublime touchstone...

[Ben]

I do think Dune is such a great book. I think it is one of the SF books that I would recommend to the broadest of audiences. It has plenty of action, character, themes, originality and the writing is pretty good.

[JohnViril]

G33z3r wrote: "John Coyne (writing in "SciFi Strange" blog) reminds us that this is the 50th Anniversary of Dune, when the first installment of the serial appeared in Analog Magazine, in December, 1963. He discus..."

Nice article.

Though I think the idea of a "feudal monarchy" makes sense if you consider the speed of communications relative to travel times between planets.

If you CAN'T talk to a home planet faster than months long delays between messages and response, a democratic system can't really work except locally.

[Stef]

Spooky1947 wrote: "as i rember, Dune was a big hit with the college crowd, a book as much about a planet's environment as it was about anything....this at a time when environmental causes were very much on the radar...if it's first print run were today."

I whish you are correct Dune is one of my favorite books as it is Solaris. I just checked on Amazon.

Dune 1780 in Kindle
Solaris 17600
Caves of Steel 4800 (No Foundation on Kindle)
Hunger Games 24

So I think I was too optimistic with those percentages and right about the professional reviewers.

[JohnViril]

Spooky1947 wrote: "as i rember, Dune was a big hit with the college crowd, a book as much about a planet's environment as it was about anything....this at a time when environmental causes were very much on the radar...."

You're forgetting the "spice orgies" in an era of "free love". And spice as the ultimate drug. Geee---I suspect those had a bit more appeal to the "LSD/Free love" crowd than ecology.

I know I'm a bit of a cynic. Yet, did not one else notice that his Islamic Fremen had adopted sexual mores that were completely alien to the Koran?

[Jonathan , Reader of the fantastic]

I have to say (hello again everyone), that when I finally got around to reading Dune I was both pleased and disappointed with it. I feel that it is great as an inspiration to other authors and has a clever plot in there. But it is dated now and somewhat damaged by its legacy in my eyes...

[Jim]

I just re-read Dune after a long gap and enjoyed it again.
I think you have to remember that 'islamic fremen' is a million miles away from the mark, the book was written two generations ago and the Middle East back then was largely secular.
Indeed what struck me was that the plot wasn't as convoluted as I remembered, and the book moved with more pace than I remembered.
Genuinely one of the greats.

[A.L.]

I think it is a comment on religion in general, as opposed to a specific one.

[[deleted user]]

This thread was started 2 years ago, and it is still getting posts....I think that speaks well of the work in question

[[deleted user]]

Started reading this with some friends a few days ago. Interesting book so far. I'm definitely hooked.

[Peter]

I probably watched the David Lynch adaptation a dozen times before I read the book. Forgive me, I was but an ignorant lad. When I finally did read it for the first time, I was immediately hooked on the series, and I devoured everything up until God Emperor. That book, I felt, began a trend that has continued into the posthumous volumes; dense, introspective, meandering and arguably plotless. It lacked the urgency of the first three, that NEED to get to the next page. I trudged through Heretics, wondering the whole time what the hell that book was even about. I know the main characters were distant Atredies relations, but I remember nothing else about them. Probably a Duncan Idaho ghola in there too. Latter-day Herbert was fond of those. I never got more than halfway through Chapterhouse. If the Dune series had been left as a trilogy, it would be among the most perfect stories ever told. The series was always dense, but after book 3 it just wasn't worth it to pick through Herbert's byzantine prose anymore.
In terms of writing technique, I think his style, while unique, leaves much to be desired by modern standards. Maybe it's unfair to judge a decades-old novel by 2014 standards, but I can't help myself. I can't help but imagine how riveting these books would be if they were written with the immediacy and intimacy of today's best fiction.
That said, the content of these stories is some of the most revolutionary, breathtanking and vividly imagined science fiction ever written. Herbert, despite his flaws, will always enjoy a hallowed place in my collection.

[Aishah]

Is it safe for someone who has only read the first book to read the posts here?

[[deleted user]]

Kirai SilverStorm wrote: "Is it safe for someone who has only read the first book to read the posts here?"

Yup. (I don't even think there are significant spoilers to the first book; the sequels are only referenced in general critique.)

[Aishah]

G33z3r wrote: "Kirai SilverStorm wrote: "Is it safe for someone who has only read the first book to read the posts here?"

Yup. (I don't even think there are significant spoilers to the first book; the sequels ar..."

Ah, I see. Thanks! ^.^

[David]

Dune fans, I need some advice. I just finished Dune about three weeks ago and I'm about halfway through Dune Messiah. Awesome books. Here is my question: I have heard that the quality of the series plummets considerably. Is it worth continuing after book #2? I get that the series gets worse. But is it mediocre or unreadable? I'd like to know the end of Paul Atreides' story but don't want to slog through thousands of awful pages. I can handle mediocre if I have to.

[Michele]

I don't think it plummets, but it does get strange by book 4 (God Emperor). I'll admit I usually skip that one when I re read the series. If you are still into the story now, I'd read through at least the first 3. That's a good stopping place. All the major threads end there.

[Michael]

I honestly didn't enjoy anything past the second book, and even that one wasn't nearly as good as Dune, itself. I honestly got the impression that Herbert never wanted to write any sequels, but the publisher and fans kept pressuring him till he gave in. (that's all just conjecture, though, I've never read any comments by Herbert on the subject)

[Naim]

I'm going to have to go against the grain and say that I actually didn't think Dune was very good. I mean, it was entertaining, but not worthy of a lot of praise.

Paul was a bit of a Mary Sue, and while some of the world building was fantastic (Spiced-up Guild spacers who can see into the future? Whaaat?), a lot of it seemed cold and uninteresting. Sure, there's an Empire, a Shaddam, Houses--but they're so distant and don't feed into the main plot to make it more rich. They're just throwaway 'Hey, there are these things in the world'.

I never felt Paul was at risk and I didn't feel perceptible growth from him. He was always just a wise boy who had been taught to be that way by his teachers and his mother. I also just plain didn't like him very much. Maybe the only sympathetic character was Gurney--though even he always seemed to sing songs that couldn't possibly have had a good rhythm (Maybe I just read them the wrong way).

[[deleted user]]

Michael wrote: "I honestly didn't enjoy anything past the second book, and even that one wasn't nearly as good as Dune, itself. ..."

I'm totally with you an that Michael. I though book 3 went off a cliff, and I was done.

[[deleted user]]

Naim, I decided to answer one of your comments over in the worldbuilding topic. Hope you don't mind.

[David]

I just finished Dune Messiah. Halfway through I thought the book was very good. The conspiracy against Paul had me intrigued and I liked learning about Paul's new empire. And then it just completely fell apart in the second half. It's like two different books. I may continue the series at some point, but I think I'm a bit Duned-out for a while.

[Greg]

My advice, if you're thinking of reading any of the later Dune books, just pick up Dune again.

[Michele]

I think with the Dune series, you are either hooked by the overall ideas Herbert was trying to get across or not. And I think his philosophy/theory was a difficult one to try and convey through pure storytelling. The story gets strange (especially in God Emperor) and maybe annoying because it's being controlled by the Herbert's need to squash his characters into the story, instead of just letting it flow from them.

Also, if you are like me, you got very attached to Paul and family in the first book, and instead of overcoming all obstacles, they end up in slavery to this idea (Paul's vision of the future), tortured by it, and then they almost all disappear at book 4.

This is very understandably frustrating if you expect a long thrilling yarn after the first book.

I think Herbert's vision for this future is fascinating and strange and hard to wrap your mind around - even after several rereadings of the whole thing I'm sure I haven't totally grasped all the concepts he's trying to get across.

So, I totally understand why so many love only the 1st book or the first three, but I think it can be worth it to read all of them.

But not the final two written by his son, unless you are just curious, because those get completely bonkers, and if it's taken from his father's notes, he did a terrible job, and also has such a different style of writing that it's almost painful.

[Greg]

Michele wrote: "I think with the Dune series, you are either hooked by the overall ideas Herbert was trying to get across or not. And I think his philosophy/theory was a difficult one to try and convey through pur..."

Good analysis. I read all the original Dune books by Herbert and don't regret it. I think many do, however.

I sure like the idea of those newer books, but the I often hear they're not good. Maybe they need some new authors in this world.

[Emily]

I gave the Dune series a try, read the frirst three books, but I just couldn't get into them. It happens sometimes.

[Phil]

I think this is the single best SF book ever written. I'm not even sure which book I would give runner-up status to. Dune is just that special.

[Jim]

I loved Dune, but never cared much for the rest of the series. I found 'God Emperor' impenetrable - mental masturbation. I recently read Whipping Star & thought it was about the same. I think Michele nailed it for me. His philosophies just don't hold any interest for me, but few do.

[BR]

Michael wrote: "I honestly didn't enjoy anything past the second book, and even that one wasn't nearly as good as Dune, itself. I honestly got the impression that Herbert never wanted to write any sequels, but the..."

Herbert wrote Dune and spent years trying to find a publisher. A series was never contemplated. You're correct that the following books were written due to publisher's pressure and Herbert's need for money. That said, I have always thought the second book was a masterpiece in itself, and he should have stopped after the third. He thought he was done with it as a trilogy. Past there, the only one I truly enjoyed was Chapterhouse because the insights into the Bene Gessert interested me.

[[deleted user]]

Kyle "Paul Atreides" McLachlan explains Dune with a single tweet.

[Michael]

G33z3r wrote: "Kyle "Paul Atreides" McLachlan explains Dune with a single tweet."
Ha! The best summation of the story I've ever seen! :D

[Andrea]

I first read Dune back in highschool, was on our summer reading list. It is in my top 5 all time favorite books. I tend to enjoy anything Herbert wrote, I just like the way he writes.

However, the series starts to get incredibly weird as it goes along, and it doesn't have much of an ending either. Whether or not he intended to write a series, he did pass away before he could wrap it up properly.

Been meaning to try out the series written by his son, but first I want to reread the original series first. I'm always ambivalent of digging up an author's notes and publishing posthumously. Whether it be Tolkien or Crichton, you never know what the author's original intent was, what their vision was. Some things they never intended to publish. Though for what its worth I've read the Silmarillion, The Lost Tales, and other Tolkiens because I just couldn't get enough!

[Emmanuelle]

I first saw the David Lynch movie. I was 10. I feel in love with it, completely. Then my mother gave me Dune, the book.

to say that I was overwhelmed is an understatement. What I loved: the world building, the political intrecacies, the characters, the various faction and guilds, the various religions and the way Herbert described people reacting to power.

I love Dune and Dune Messiah, although it broke my heart. Children of Dune, loved it to pieces and broke my heart even more. God Emperor: I felt as if an old boyfriend, that left me when I was still in love, was coming back, but much changed. I tried to love it, but it was too strange, too weird. But once again, it was in a far away future.
After that? I lost interest. I read Heretics and Chapterhouse but didn't feel connected like I was with the other characters.

[Brendan]

God Emperor of Dune is actually my favourite of the Dune books, with the first one being my second favourite. There are no Dune books by authors other than Frank Herbert.

[Emmanuelle]

Brendan wrote: "God Emperor of Dune is actually my favourite of the Dune books, with the first one being my second favourite. There are no Dune books by authors other than Frank Herbert."

I have to admit, I didn't dare go read any of the other books after Chapterhouse. But I'Ve seen very good and very bad reviews for those books after so... one day perhaps I let myself be tempted by the 'Dark side' (it's a joke!!!)

[Sarah]

Super late to this party.

Trying to read Dune for another group I'm in.

I have to admit, I'm not really liking it.
I'm about halfway through it and not particularly motivated to keep going.
Reading the comments here, I feel like I must be missing something. Maybe there is something in particular I need to keep in mind to make me like it better? Thoughts?

There may not be anything, maybe I'm just not destined to like this one. It happens.

[Val]

It's a very conversation and inner-thought heavy book. Actions, when they happen are very brief. It might just not be your cup of tea, but give it a chance. Or try watching the movie first to give yourself some grounding.

[Sarah]

Val wrote: "It's a very conversation and inner-thought heavy book. Actions, when they happen are very brief. It might just not be your cup of tea, but give it a chance. Or try watching the movie first to give ..."

I think I'll give the movie a try. Maybe that will help.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Ivy]

I didn't care for Dune the first time I read it. It probably had something to do with the fact that I was in the middle of a really stressful move and, well, Dune wasn't providing any escapism. I really liked Dune on my second try, however. I thought the dynamics between Paul and his mother, and Paul and the people of Dune, was fascinating. I'm also a big Wheel of Time fan and I felt like the bene gesserit were a big influence on Jordan's aes sidai. It was fun to compare and contrast the two. Anyhow Sarah, if you try it again, hope you like it!

[Roger]

The first time I read Dune as a early teen (20 or so years ago) I enjoyed it but it was one of the most difficult books I had read and I know I didn't come close to understanding everything that was going on, but I did enjoy it a lot. Over the years I have re-read it a handful of times and I still enjoy it immensely. I have also read all the rest of the series, and while vastly different I still enjoyed them as well. I have read quite a few of the "other" books written by his son and like others have said they just aren't as good. I do like them for the extra background they give into the world and the story but if you can find a good summary of them then you aren't missing much.

I'm currently doing a re-read in the series, just starting Children of Dune, planning on reading as many of the books, including the ones written by his son, and seeing how far I can get before I get annoyed with the poor books his son has written before I give up...

[[deleted user]]

Sarah wrote: "I think I'll give the movie a try. Maybe that will help...."

Be interesting to know if watching the movie helps. I think David Lynch was more interested in the baroque visuals than telling a story.

I'm of the school of thought that if you aren't enjoying a book you're reading, you might as well stop. Dune is an odd mix of space opera, mysticism and interstellar politics. That was quite a departure for sci-fi in 1965, and it's beloved by older fen, but it need not necessarily appeal to all.

[Roger]

G33z3r wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I think I'll give the movie a try. Maybe that will help...."

Be interesting to know if watching the movie helps. I think David Lynch was more interested in the baroque visuals than t..."

I'm the same, I used to finish a book regardless of how bad I thought it was, but life is too short to read bad books

[Sarah]

G33z3r wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I think I'll give the movie a try. Maybe that will help...."

Be interesting to know if watching the movie helps. I think David Lynch was more interested in the baroque visuals than t..."

I thought about it some more and I think part of it is I feel like there is something basic about the whole set up and its motives that I am missing. I'm hoping the movie will make it clearer.

I'm listening to the audiobook. It could also be that for me, this one just doesn't work as an audiobook and I'd have better luck with the print book.

Roger wrote: "G33z3r wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I think I'll give the movie a try. Maybe that will help...."

Be interesting to know if watching the movie helps. I think David Lynch was more interested in the baroque..."

And I want to keep trying at least a bit longer. Its a group read, but I had put it on one of my challenges for this year so I don't want to give up just yet.

[[deleted user]]

Roger wrote: "The first time I read Dune as a early teen (20 or so years ago) I enjoyed it but it was one of the most difficult books I had read and I know I didn't come close to understanding everything that wa..."

I appreciate your comments on Dune. I read it while much younger and enjoyed it. But I enjoyed it even more when I read it again. I reread it every few years (the whole series). The whole world created in Dune continues to hold my interest,

[Emmanuelle]

I discovered Dune (the book) because of Dune (the David Lynch movie). I completely loved the movie and when I read the book, most of the characters had the face of the actors in the movie. Somewhat, Dune aesthetic had become those of the movie. I couldn't imagine any Bene Gesserit in any other way than with those long flowing black dress.
But the book take me much deeper. The complexity of the story, the characters, the politics, the culture, the clash and the inner fight of Paul. It is one of my favorite book (well the two tomes). I love Dune Messiah as well as Children of Dune....
And when I speak about the aesthetic of the David Lynch movie, I was deeply disturbed by the way the Reverend Mother were depicted in the series with William Hurt. Although there were some very interesting parts, and they really try to keep close to the book. I suppose I should blame David Lynch for influencing me that bad!

[Robert]

Dune is a book that very few people could have written. Frank Herbert had something of a wild life with various different occupations, and it shows in the various terminology within his active lexicon that he employs so effortlessly.

Recently, I was re-reading Dune to see if I could learn anything from his writing, and while I picked up a thing or two, I most of all realized that, my life experiences being so completely and utterly different from his, I would never be able to reproduce his style faithfully.

There's also the political narrative that holds true to this day.

If anything, I'd have to say that Herbert's writing is very sharp texturally. That's a weird thing to say, but his every description of life on Arrakis and Fremen society is not only viciously to the point but also elucidates a pointed lifestyle.

He's a great writer. I can only pray to ever equal his quality.

[Andrea]

Robert wrote: "He's a great writer"

Basically I'd read anything he's written just because he's one of the few authors where I really appreciate how he writes, not just what he writes.

[Sarah]

I had set this aside for awhile to catch up on some other group reads for my various groups.
Picking it back up again and determined to finish it this time.

[Sarah]

I finally finished this today.

To me, large chunks could have been removed without detracting from the story.

I did like the last part though, though I am not sure I will read any more of this series.

[Donald]

Sarah wrote: "I am not sure I will read any more of this series. "

The next one is similar, the one after that is a bit different but after that they really go all over the place. IMO you're not missing much if you don't read the later books if you're not fully enthused by Dune.