Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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PLEASE separate before not-a-booking!
Stoopid question--what do we do with NOT-A-BOOKs? I gather we don't delete them, but what is the procedure? And in what obvious location did I miss this information?
Heather, Put NOT A BOOK as the author's name. And it's nice, if you have time to also put NOT A BOOK in front of the title and in front of what type of edition: calendar, toy, etc. etc. etc. etc. But, NOT A BOOK as the author is sufficient. That way, it keeps all the NOT A BOOKs together and not searchable under other "authors." Thanks. If the items don't have ISBNs you can delete them, actually. If they do have ISBNs (which they usually do) then don't delete because they will just reappear.
If there's no ISBN but there is some discussion, do I still kill it or NAB it?Example:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60...
Delete it. In my opinion. And I think that's the consensus.
A movie? Delete it. I'm sure there are plenty of other websites to discuss movies. We're about books.
Huh, you know, there doesn't seem to be anything on NOT-A-BOOKing in the librarian manual -- does anyone know where the standard instructions are and want to write them up in the "add to the manual" thread? (Thanks for asking, Lavi! The short version: sometimes we get items on Goodreads which were automatically imported from Amazon but which aren't books -- this can be things like promotional posters, book cartons, etc. They were assigned ISBNs for tracking purposes by a book publisher so we can't just delete them from the Goodreads database: anything with an ISBN will be automatically re-imported from Amazon. So what librarians do is mark these not-a-book by changing the author and title to NOT A BOOK so that they are kept out of everyone's way.)
NOT-A-BOOKing is explained in the author description, but no one ever thought to add it to the manual. It was started by some rogue librarians (myself, Rivka, Lisa and a few others :-) rather than the GR power-that-be.
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No, I want to be Rogue LIbrarian! ;-) Well, on Goodreads we can all have that name.
With the addition of eBook publishing, many eBooks show up with no ISBN. Is there any process in place to make sure these don't get deleted? They are valid books, just of the electronic variety. For instance, there is no ISBN field showing for any of the Fictionwise.com eBooks.
Justy, In the book description field put as much information as you can, even if it's only "ebook" and that should do the trick. Many old books don't have ISBNs either.
Thanks, that's what I was hoping to hear. :)
I have a question relating to the ebook situation- I've been seeing a lot of "Kindle Edition," when the book is generally available as an ebook, not just as a Kindle ebook. Or someone is adding it as a Kindle book when there is already an entry for ebook. How should this be handled?
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I don't think we should edit Kindle editions to a more general ebook edition. They're only available in the United States and they're only readable if you have a Kindle.This ties into a general problem with ebooks that I tried to raise before: that the Amazon database only contains Kindle editions, whereas there is a much wider range of ebooks available that isn't reaching GR.
Yes, usually the "Kindle edition" is a validly different edition from other e-book editions. (There's an id number that Amazon publishes it with that isn't an ISBN, A-something-or-other, but it will get imported into GR.)I think we're seeing a lot of them right now because there's been a sudden publishing explosion with the new Kindle release. :)
Ahhh I gotcha. It just hurts my heart a little because Kindle books are not the only ebooks. It makes my Sony Reader sad :(
Would a good option be to add a second eBook edition for the other formats and then combine it with the Kindle addition?
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Justy, Other ebooks are already in the database and can be added manually.. They're all combined with all editions of the books: text and audio.
Some other ebooks are in the database. But they don't get added automatically, unlike the Kindle editions. People coming to GR as their major source of information about books are being short-changed by Amazon's policy.
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What's amazon's policy?Maybe I'll make an effort to add the ebooks that I read.
Amazon only sell Kindle editions of ebooks.
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GR's new deal with FeedBook should help in that respect, though.
Lately I've been seeing some Librarians change the format on a Kindle Edition from "Kindle Edition" to "ebook"...which in the loosest term is correct, but not in the strictest sense.I don't think changing Kindle to generic ebook should be done. The Kindle version is a specific thing with an AISN while an ebook has an ISBN.
When I've seen changes like this, I usually go change it back then track down an ISBN for the ebook and manually add a new edition and combine.
Oh I thought you meant a policy for GR. What do you guys think, should I try to add generic ebook editions, even if the Kindle version is already there?
I definitely think you should, Jessica. Otherwise people without a Kindle (the vast majority) could be losing out on finding an edition they'd like to own.And although Amazon's policy isn't for GR, it affects GR.
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Alright, I'll do it then :) My only concern would be that librarians would see the Kindle edition and ebook edition and delete one. I'll think of something additional to add into it so they know they are separate (since they don't have an ASIN, they just correspond to the print ISBN).
I usually list them as MultiFormat eBook. Not that that will necessarily deter the more determined librarian ;).
Ha ha! That's a good idea, I'll run with that.
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My only concern would be that librarians would see the Kindle edition and ebook edition and delete oneNo, I don't see any librarian doing that. They'd just combine them with all editions of that book.
Any time you add a book manually it's a good idea to put in all the information you can about that book. Definitely put in that it's a ebook if it is.
Just to chime in, I'm totally not an ebook reader at all, know virtually nothing about most all the readers and formats - but as a librarian, I treat 'Kindle editions' of books as just another edition. So, as Lisa said, I would say that in general, as long as it says 'ebook' on it, it will just be combined with other editions, even if it doesn't have an ID # of any sort on it.
Cait wrote: "Huh, you know, there doesn't seem to be anything on NOT-A-BOOKing in the librarian manual -- does anyone know where the standard instructions are and want to write them up in the "add to the manual..."Cait, has NOT A BOOKing been added to the Librarian's Manual yet? I've been using it, but would love a complete list of things that would fall into this category.
So far, I have:
Movies (DVD or VHS)
Music (esp soundtracks)
Stationary
Calendars
Multi-packs of the same book
Posters, or other promo materials (displays, etc.)
Coloring books
Any other categories?
I'll write something up if it hasn't been done already...
I'd like to clarify how we want it done too.
I try to copy/paste the info from the title line into the description field, then NOT A BOOK over the title, search and author fields. If I find a lot of them all together, then I combine them and NAB them in the author field only (unless I have a lot of time on my hands right then.)
What do you Rogue Librarians recommend?
I would add a word of caution on coloring books - some books have the title 'coloring book' in the title but contain a significant amount of text. (Example: The Anatomy Coloring Book). These are no different than other children's books, except it's left for the user to add color.Unless you have the book in front of you, it is hard to tell the difference. Some librarians have been NABing based on the words 'coloring book', taking no time to determine whether the book actually has text.
The other items on your list are definitely not books. But some coloring books are books, some are not. I would be grateful for a more thoughtful statement:
"Most coloring books are not books. Some do contain significant amounts of text and function as a children's book or a reference book. When in doubt, leave it alone. Or, if someone has the book on their shelf, please send them a courtesy message explaining why you are Not-a-Booking this item."
I have several educational coloring books with text and would like to have them included on GoodReads. Before adding them to my shelves, I personally looked over them to verify that they included text and could be considered a book. I can't see how they are hurting anything, except maybe some librarian's ideals of database perfection. So I ask that you please consider carefully the wording of the NAB policy to help keep more of my books from disappearing from my shelves.
That's a good thought Amy, and I like the wording of your comment. I like the idea of a courtesy message, and it should be recommended, however sometimes it is impractical if there are large numbers of ratings.When I said coloring books, I was mainly thinking of all the ones I've been seeing in the childrens books I've been cleaning up - Disney characters, Eric Carle, other big 'characters'.
I agree that some of the ones that are more 'reference' type with lots of text can be considered books. For the specific ones you are mentioning, when you added them, did you put this kind of information in the description field? The more info there, the better.
Just FYI anything on your shelves will stay on your shelves after they are NAB, they will just show NAB on them. If something is erroneously changed, you can either change them back, with a librarian's/edit note to specify why they should stay, or if you're not a librarian, post here and ask for someone to do it for you.
I believe a title will only disappear from your shelves if it is deleted.
Carolyn, I think there's a more complete list of NAB items burried somewhere on this forum. Off the top of my head, some other things to include:*unbound maps (as opposed to bound maps in an atlas)
*board games
*tshirts
*toys
*stuffed animals/dolls
*bookmarks
*stickers
*decks of cards (including Tarot)
*puzzles (as opposed to puzzle books)
*plaques (inspirational, or otherwise)
There are others for certain. I'd also expand the "promotional materials" part to specify things such as dumpbins and counterpacks.
Does anyone remember the final decision on sheet music? Depends on how it is bound?
The Michael For Whom I Wasn't Looking wrote: "Carolyn, I think there's a more complete list of NAB items burried somewhere on this forum."Are you thinking of this thread? It'd be great to go through that and compile one big list of non-books!
Don't forget all those maps. There's too many items to name. Occasionally, I find something NOT A BOOK that I've never before seen in the GR database. Lots of items are given ISBNs.
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Yes, bound sheet music is a book. I remember double checking that one some months back.
Me too re the bound sheet music being a book.
OK, will go through this and the original thread (thanks for the link Michael) and put something together.Will be a day or two, so if you have any other ideas/suggestions, please add them to this thread - I'll check back.
TIA!
This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For wrote: "Carolyn, I think there's a more complete list of NAB items burried somewhere on this forum. Off the top of my head, some other things to include:
*unbound maps (as opposed to bound maps in an atlas..."
Okay I couldn't help but respond to this because many tarot card sets come with books and cards and those books have ISBN numbers the set itself does. Why wouldn't that be listable?
*unbound maps (as opposed to bound maps in an atlas..."
Okay I couldn't help but respond to this because many tarot card sets come with books and cards and those books have ISBN numbers the set itself does. Why wouldn't that be listable?
Jenn, you're right: volumes 1 and 2 should not be combined like that. Thanks for linking to this one! I've separated them out into volume 1, volume 2, and complete editions -- let me know if they don't look right -- and you can always bring these problems this group to have them fixed whenever you find them. (A new topic under "Book Issues" is usually the best way to do it.)
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Goodreads Librarians Group
Books mentioned in this topic
Hard Knocks (other topics)Paisley Designs (other topics)
The Anatomy Coloring Book (other topics)
Thanks!