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The Bookhouse Boys discussion
This topic is about
Sometimes a Great Notion
Sometimes a Great Notion discussion
message 51:
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Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm
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rated it 3 stars
Apr 04, 2012 02:34PM
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I am so not reading this book, but being married to Dave means I get to hear something about it. And so it caught my attention this morning when I noted that Netflix *just* added the film adaptation with Paul Newman, Henry Fonda and Lee Remick to instant streaming. Dave tells me it's not even available on DVD, so go forth and watch the madness while it's still available!
message 53:
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Matt, I am the Great Went.
(last edited Apr 05, 2012 08:50AM)
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rated it 5 stars
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So, "Don't read the book; watch the movie based on the sweeping, experimental epic novel"?
Don't make me get out the "banned" stick!
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*crickets*
I ban you from banning me! HA! BEATEN AT YOUR OWN GAME!!!
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http://www.registerguard.com/web/livi...
Also, I will be on the coast this weekend and will try to swing by the bar they used for The Snag (The Bay Haven Inn in Newport) and the Stamper house (near Kernville on the Siletz) and take some pictures for y'all.
Okay! No more movie talk!
Read the damned book, it's freaking brilliant.
Does anyone know if there's a listing anywhere as to the order of characters narrating in the novel?
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I still have 100 pages to go, but the perspectives I've seen used so far, in order of their first use, have been:
3rd person omniscient narrator
Lee
Hank
Joe Ben
Molly the dog
Floyd Evenwrite
Willard Eggleston
Henry
(I think this is everyone I've seen so far. Did I forget anybody?)
It's worth noting that Lee and Hank are used more than any of the other characters by far, and their voices are pretty easy to distinguish from one another. If there are particular passages about which you (or anyone else) are unsure, let us know and maybe we can all talk it out together. :)
message 62:
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Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm
(last edited Apr 09, 2012 10:46PM)
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rated it 3 stars
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NEVER GIVE A INCH!
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NEVER GIVE A INCH!"
I thought I was the lost Stamper child! >:(
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Nah, you don't say n****r enough. Though I think you might be the world's first Stamper groupie.
Is the bath water too hot for you, Mr. Kesey? Shall I cool it with my gentle, contemplative sighs? *swoon*
Dave wrote: "Good question, Jacob. I've poked around a tiny bit (not much, though) looking for something like this and haven't had much luck. Probably because, at certain points in the book, this would require ..."Thanks so much! I may put this one on hold for awhile, I just finished reading Thomas Pynchon's "Against The Day" so I am in the mood for something of a lighter nature.
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"The task of the narrator is not an easy one [...] He appears to be required to choose his tale from among the many that are possible. But of course that is not the case. The case is rather to make many of the one. Always the teller must be at pains to devise against his listener's claim--perhaps spoken, perhaps not--that he has heard the tale before. He sets forth the categories into which the listener will wish to fit the narrative as he hears it. But he understands that the narrative is itself in fact no category but is rather the category of all categories for there is nothing which falls outside its purview. All is telling. Do not doubt it."
This is spoken by a strange hermit who the main character of the novel encounters in a Mexican ghost town. The narrator to whom the man refers is God, the teller of the one story that is everything, i.e. life. Applied to Kesey's novel, though, I very much see this attitude informing the narration. There are many different stories and points of view that do not converge to a single truth, except that Lee and Hank and Joe Ben and Henry and Viv and Indian Jenny are possible, side by side.
This produces the odd effect of Kesey's seeming to encourage his readers to judge his characters without ever judging them himself. The thoughts and actions of these characters are often juxtaposed in such a way that it seems very likely that Kesey is manipulating the reader's perceptions of each character without using typical heroic or villainous terminology. An example: I've said before and continue to think off Lee as the villain of the novel, and I can point to specific passages where I think Kesey wants me to feel that way; by the novel's end, however, can I say what Kesey himself thinks of Lee? Is Lee ever described in villainous terms? Is he given a villain's due? Or does he merely exist, awful and as he is, unrepentant?
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I already miss Wakonda. :(
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We'll probably get to that in part 7.
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'Sallright. More fuel for the forum. *smooth*
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Canada geese seemed to be like a Rorschach test for the main characters in the book.
Lee feels that they are fleeing, like he should be doing (or Old Faithful tells him to do...WATCH OUT!)
Joe Ben's eternal optimism is reflected in believing that each day is the day he's going to get his prize goose for dinner.
Hank has a more complicated response to them, that was a great part of the book, for me, but ultimately they seemed to represent the pressure of his responsibility as new head of the family, the looming deadline, and how he is stuck keeping up the house/family/town while the geese to leave.
More later, time permitting.
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Seriously, I don't know why I blanked on that. I was thinking about the geese a lot too, and I even dog-eared a page (don't worry, my edition is pretty thrashed already) where Hank is thinking about what they mean to him. I'll have to look that up and remind myself.
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Those 2 guys were another example of the 'tertiary characters' that I wanted to talk about it, too.
So how does this book rate or rank compared to the other Bookhouse Boys titles?
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In terms of ambition and the awe I feel at its accomplishments, there's no contest: this is #1. In terms of overall impact on me and enjoyment (although enjoyment of the not-so-happy sort) I'd still probably rank Affliction a sliver ahead of it.
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I respected Kesey's ambition, and there were passages in the book that were as good as anything I've ever read. Particularly the masterful climax and the subsequent fallout scene with Hank and Henry and Henry's old friend in the hospital.
As far as where it stacks up, I'm not great at ranking stuff. I guess, not my least favorite, not my favorite.
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I have a friend who's taking a science class and one of the questions asks them to identify the difference between accurate and precise. I should send her the above sentence as an illustration.
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message 84:
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Matt, I am the Great Went.
(last edited May 03, 2012 09:42AM)
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rated it 5 stars
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For me, it's joined my upper echelon of divine books like Catch-22, The Grapes of Wrath, and The Sound and the Fury. It's all at once sprawling, broad, detailed, shambling, tragic, funny, troubling, heartening, and human. Just like real life. Almost every character is given life and a unique voice. The setting is itself a character. The town as a collective is a character. There's poetry and vulgarity. Everything. Simply everything.
This book changed me. I loved it from the first page and didn't want it to end.
I'll be a stinker and paraphrase a friend of mine, "If you don't like this, you don't like books."
As far as rankings go, this tops the list. Affliction is right behind it, though.
Jason, I was always told the difference is that you can be precise without being accurate. Tell her "you're welcome." :)
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Indeed. Precise would take a whole lot longer and wouldn't be very fun... spreadsheets, criteria, equations, calculators. Not my strong suit. Let's just leave it at accurate.
Jason wrote: "We're even for that whole Moby Dick thing."
Fair 'nuff.
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Jason wrote: "The knowledge that you rated Midaq Alley higher than SaGn fills me with existential despair."
This is why I don't rate according to ranking. I'm not thinking about anything else than what I thought about this particular work, my experience with it, when I give something a rating. That's important to make explicit, because you can point to any number of things that aren't as technically accomplished and that I gave a higher star rating and call me a big dickhead. As one example, I gave David Morrell's '80s spy thriller The Brotherhood of the Rose 5 stars last year. I had a blast reading it, so that's how I rated that particular work. Is it more important or technically proficient than SaGN? Absolutely not. Did I enjoy reading it more, did its themes speak to me on a deeper level? Yes.
You could do the same thing with movies, find dumb comic book movies that were total trash that I gave 5 stars and Fellini flicks that only garnered 3 or 4. Not every piece of art speaks to everyone in the same way... that's what I love about art, and discussions about art. Let's don't make it personal.
Matt wrote: "I'll be a stinker and paraphrase a friend of mine, "If you don't like this, you don't like books."
See above. Let's not go crazy here. We all liked the book, most of the folks who read along liked the book, let's move on.
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Huh? I wasn't even addressing you. Robert asked how we ranked/rated the book and I responded. Talk about yr Dave-centric view of the universe. Sheesh.
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Freaking INTERNET. So much is lost without voice inflection and body language. Goodreads needs more emoticons. I can't seem to ever get my points across the way I intend without pitchures.
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But if you don't like Wise Blood, you're a shallow, narrow minded mouth-breather who should stick to Danielle Steel.
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Can we please go back to talking about the music in the book or Henry's wrinkly ball sack or whatever?
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Yikes, most provocative question I may asked.I love it. Tee hee.
I guess I asked, because I drew a sense of endearment from everyone while listening to the podcast. There is that extra sense of wonderment when everyone is completely enthralled with a book and this was one of those occasions.
As with AFFLICTION, I could tell that all participants were very eager to contribute, and when that happens, I can hear the exuberance seeping into my little earholes.
But, yeah, I was very curious as to how everyone would compare this book, SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION, to all the previous books read for the podcast.
So, thank you, gentlemen. And yes, that's you, Dave, Matt, and Jason. Thanks!
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Aw, ta hell with us! Thank YOU. We're gonna have to get you on the show!
I don't feel like I have withdrawn from a conversation due to disliking a book since this summer. We've had a great run that I'm happy to jinx by talking about it. Disaster ho!
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Matt wrote: "I do think you're a big drama queen, so I guess the rest of your argument is probably sound, as well."
Interesting.
I've had my balls busted by some of the best in the world. That's not really what this feels like.
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So that was you on the best of Don Rickle's Celebrity Roasts the other night.
Hey guys, can we go back to our corners now? God knows I can be sensitive and misread stuff myself, but I'm trying to be the voice of reason here. It's like you said yourself, Dave, the internet can be the worst possible place to have these kinds of conversations. There's something being lost in translation and feelings are getting hurt over it. Let's move on to happier topics, like Auschwitz.
message 100:
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Dave Alluisi, Evolution of the Arm
(last edited May 03, 2012 04:13PM)
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rated it 3 stars
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Apologies for any and all offenses. And for not loving the book as much as y'all did.
*hug it out brooooo*
[/retardeddrama]
The Bookhouse Boys
Books mentioned in this topic
Catch-22 (other topics)The Grapes of Wrath (other topics)
The Sound and the Fury (other topics)
Affliction (other topics)
The Crossing (other topics)
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