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Easter Eggs (plot hints)
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Maybe Cassie will take the Graea into Faeri with her to help fight.
I think this Q&A from KC was the biggest teaser yet! She's taunting us, peeps!!I've taken the liberty of copying her response here, so we know what we're talking about.
I will say that the Easter eggs are mostly just for fun. What I’ve found interesting is that there are much more important clues to the overall plot that are right out in plain sight, not hidden at all. And yet, for whatever reason, they just haven’t been noticed.:-)
(Click to view the full Q & A)
So obviously something (or more than one thing) has been mentioned in passing, and we haven't realised its significance.
I'm thinking of a couple of things. Firstly, the chat with Marsden in Hunt the Moon (chapter 18) where he says that there are three children of Loki who are fated to kill three gods. We're down two. (Cassie's mother and the Ouroboros spell were the first two). The third child of Loki is the wolf Fenrir, who kills the god Odin. So I would presume we'll get more of the shape-shifters when we encounter Fenrir? I don't know if we've seen any hints of the god Odin? He's a one-eyed god. Any one-eyed characters popped up?
The only other thing I can think of is that maybe we've missed hints about the coming war. I feel that there's going to be a big battle at the end against the Black Circle, and we still don't know all that much about them. Maybe there are big clues hidden somewhere about that?? (just guessing)
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Rosier said the demon high council was terrified Pritkin would use this to go back in time to a crucial moment in demon history to kill some demons and alter demon history.
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which also appears in the anthology
oooo yeah hmm i dont remember her being a dragon, it's been so long since i've read the dory books
Amy wrote: "Someone mentioned that Pritkin being a Druid should be able to shapeshift.wiki: "Odin had the wolf raised among the AEsir. Only the god Tyr was brave enough to feed the growing monster. The wolf ..."
Werewolves got a (very brief) mention in Touch the Dark(?) when Cassie passes a giant wolf in a corridor at MAGIC, but I think that was about it for the Cassie series. I just assumed it would be a new character, or maybe someone who has cropped up in the Lia books. I would love it to be someone who has been mentioned already, but we didn't know they were a wolf, but I can't see that happening to be honest.
I was confused about the part where Fenrir is killed afterwards too, but KC may just decide not to include that part of the mythology in her story. I'm working on the assumption that Fenrir is a good guy (or gal!) and Odin is the bad god who must be destroyed.
I also wondered about Cassie's Dad as a possibility, but I kinda think that he was featured heavily in the last book, so that might rule him out. It's possible Cassie might go to Faerie and meet someone there?
Susie, These are short stories that KC has written about a half-werewolf. Take a look on her site here:http://karenchance.com/books_sb.html
http://karenchance.com/books_inked.html (You can read a sample of this one)
http://karenchance.com/books_wm.html
I haven't read all of these, so I don't know if there's any clues in there or not.
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I also wondered about Cassie's Dad as a possibility,..."
Wow...that would make Cassie part-Were in addition to all the other stuff she is (demi-goddess, part mage, vampire's spouse)
LOL yeah, Cassie's a total cross-breed!I keep thinking about this, and about how events will play out. I think everyone would pretty much agree that Cassie's going to Hell in the next book, right? I'm pretty sure that's practically a book's worth on its own.
I'm wondering if KC might do something similar to what she did in the previous books with Apollo. Apollo introduced himself in one book to Cassie, but it was really the following book that we realised he wasn't a good guy and had to be killed. I'm wondering if we might get the first hints about Odin in Hell, with his story developing more fully in the following book.
Is there much discussion about the books on KC's Facebook page? (I'm not on Facebook) I mean discussion similar to what we have here. Do you think KC ever visits this group? Maybe the Facebookers just haven't figured things out, but we're much smarter here at Goodreads and sussed out what was happening a while back LMAO!
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I'm not on FB either, but I believe moderator Maeve is. I haven't seen Maeve posting on this goodreads group for quite a while, but maybe you can ask her the FB question.
Everytime I go to KC's FB page, the "JOIN FACEBOOK" message/login demand pops up and won't let me look at anything.
Totally sucks, and just reinforces my resolve to stay off FB.
hmm I'm on facebook so I will check it out when I have some time to search her page.
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But I think discussing on FB can be difficult due to how it works. If you're late, you don't really see former threads or have to scroll back. Here you can see the topics with one look. Am I making sense?
KC should visit this website. Would also be cool if we could tell people about this group there. But don't know if that is possible.
Enjee, yeah, I used to have a Facebook account a few years ago, but I closed it ages ago because I didn't like the way they disregarded people's privacy even then, and I think they're a hundred times worse now. It means once in a while I miss out on things, but I really can't say it's been a problem. Usually, if you're curious, someone else can get the info for you.Sarah, yeah, I see what you mean about the Facebook discussions. I just wondered if they don't get as in depth there as we do here, and from what you're saying, it does sound a bit like it.
It would be a bit weird if KC were here. I know some authors avoid fan groups like this, because they feel it's not their place and it's for fans only. Stacia Kane wrote something about this, where she said that the presence of an author can sometimes be a bit inhibiting. I know what she's saying. Even if you wouldn't dream of bashing the author, you might want to say something like "I didn't like what Character XX did in the last book", but if you knew the author was going to read it, you might hesitate.
Anyway, back on topic. KC said in the Q & A that there were "important clues", which implies more than one thing. I'm fairly sure the Wolf thing is one of them, but there must be something else, maybe about the war or Faerie. I really need to reread the Dory books soon. I'm wondering if there's stuff hidden in there.
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Yeah, I've always been able to read the Q & A's but sometimes can't see all the comments. Not a big deal though. I'd rather chat with people here about any posts KC makes.
I'm on FB, you should've asked me! So now I'll copy paste the P&A's each time here and be done :) (I agree on FB. Sadly lots of my friends don't, and I have to keep up.)KC had a very bad experience once here when it was still the one-thread a series back in who's your author. One reader was bashing on the books really hard, so she took it badly, got mad and said she wouldn't come here again.
Later said reader ,and people, (Maeve, was it?) apologized, etc.
I asked the chick who uses the cassie persona on facebook, and she said she'd see, but I heard nothing since. You're right it would be nice though!
I doubt we'd get much more answers, but if KC would jsut hang out from time to time... yeah nice!
And the Easter eggs (cute name) I noticed were mostly for fun, like Pritkin's code, but one thing that keeps bothering me is the GMO dark Fey that Dory find regularly with Radu and the Black Circle. cassie sees them in book 4 on the senate's level of MAGIC. Just what does it say about the Senate/ BC relations... And it lokks fishy, like it's going to blow up very, late in the series. A zombie-mutant-apocalypse maybe?? muhahha...
OK, this is going to be a long one ... get comfy!I remembered tonight about a discussion I had in this group before Hunt the Moon came out, and I wonder if this could be another Easter Egg, or at least a bit of foreshadowing by the author.
In Death's Mistress (Chapter 31), Dory overhears an argument between Mircea and Marlowe, where Marlowe questions Mircea's loyalty to the Consul. The gist of it is that Mircea is becoming too powerful. He has the Pythia under his control and now Louis Cesar. I usually think of Marlowe and Mircea as friends, but I think this conversation shows that Marlowe is completely loyal to the Consul (he's probably her mouthpiece in the conversation). There are a few great quotes:
“She is suspicious of my loyalty?” [said Mircea]
“Ambition has blinded better men.”
“And more foolish ones. I have no plans to challenge her authority.”
And:
“She truly thinks I would move against her?”
“She wonders if one with so much power will be content to serve for the rest of his life,” Marlowe said.
Mircea says to Dory afterwards:
“She is frightened. And when someone holds that much power, their fear can be dangerous."
Mircea makes it plain that he has no plans whatsoever to challenge the Consul, but shortly beforehand, he had protected Dory from the Consul's power (Marlowe said it was a test ... and Mircea failed it). Apparently the Consul will only allow loyalty to herself and no-one else.
KC said in her last Q & A that there's going to be upheaval in the Senate with new members coming in, and I wonder if there's going to be a showdown between Mircea and the Consul before the end of the series. I know it may not seem a smart move to challenge Mircea now, with the war kicking off, but we don't know what else might happen before the end of the series.
I've said before that I think Cassie will have to negotiate with Rosier to get Pritkin back. Say Mircea becomes peripherally involved in these negotiations and a very loose alliance develops (Mircea won't want Pritkin back, and Rosier won't want to give up Pritkin, so there is some common ground). So now Mircea has friends in the demon world. We also think that there's going to be werewolves in the story at some point. Let's say Mircea helps Cassie in her dealings with them (maybe he saves someone powerful in their world). And now he might have alliances with the shapeshifters too. Don't you think the Consul might freak? She's already uptight about his powerbase and if he makes any more powerful alliances, she might start thinking, in her paranoia, he's going to turn against her. I also read somewhere that they think Ming-de will try to make a bid for control of the North American Senate, by putting people who are loyal to her in the empty seats. And who's Ming-de's best friend? Why, it's Mircea!
I had the theory that Cassie would go off with Pritkin at the end, but maybe the Consul would be killed in the war and Mircea would gain control of the Senate and would also patch up his relationship with Dory. That would be his Happy Ever After Ending. But when I started to think more about this ... I began to have really awful thoughts. The Consul is paranoid about Mircea's power, becoming very distrustful and you have to wonder if at some point she may decide he is more of a dangerous liability than an asset. It's said a couple of times that she tends to over-react if she's frightened, and there's going to be lots of changes coming with old alliances in flux.
So do you think the Consul might decide to try to 'remove' Mircea? Bear in mind that KC has to end her love triangle one way or another!!
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"KC had a very bad experience once here when it was still the one-thread a series back in who's your author. One reader was bashing on the books really hard, so she took it badly, got mad and said she wouldn't come here again.
..."
That was Nicole, who has left Goodreads.
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I could see the Consul trying to remove Mircea. But I like the part where you talk about him becoming Consul and reconcile with Dory. That's what I always saw as his HEA and not Casssie.
I'm not saying this will definitely happen, but it's fun to throw ideas out there and see what others think. I'd thought Mircea would end up top dog at the Senate for a while, but then I flipped it round and thought "My God, what if the Consul tries to kill Mircea!!" KC wouldn't be the first UF author to kill off a main character!
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Lannister wrote: "Werewolves got a (very brief) mention in Touch the Dark(?) when Cassie passes a giant wolf in a corridor at MAGIC, "wasnt that Sebastian?? the were-wolf alpha from Lia's short story??
and does anyone have any theory's on cassie's dad?? im sure KC must of stuck something about him in her books??
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If you Wiki "Ragnar", all sorts of old Norse stuff comes up. So I was thinking maybe Cassie's dad is pivotal in Ragnarok.
And he has been "chained" (i.e. imprisoned) in a paperweight by Tony...in Faery.
What I find interesting is in the last page of HtM cassie says something about "raising Hel". Spelt with one 'l' is the way the Norse Goddess of the Underworld is spelt. And early in the book it is implied that Hel is Cassie's mother so I was thinking whether she may be going to try and talk to her mother or something.
I like your theorizing Amy, though I must admit I always assumed that Fenrir would be a new character - presumably a werewolf/shifter of some sort. The fact that KC has written short stories about shifters already reinforces this idea for me. (When I say new character, I mean new to the Cassie books. They may possibly have appeared already in the Lia stories - which I haven't read yet). I also assumed that Odin hadn't appeared already either. I'm presuming that Odin is an actual God though, like Apollo and Cassie's mother Artemis, rather than just a metaphor for one. So that would rule out The Consul for example (she may be powerful, but she isn't a god).
It's certainly possible that this myth shouldn't be taken quite so literally, but given that we've already had two actual gods, I think the third one is likely to be so as well.
Having said all that, I *love* what you say about Mircea as Fenrir and being chained up twice. That's a really interesting idea. As I said above, I don't see Mircea as Fenrir, but I started to wonder if there are any other gods 'chained' in this manner. The Graeae were in a similar box. I wonder if any other gods are too.
Hmmm, thinking further ... it could be argued the Cassie's mysterious father is perhaps 'chained' at the moment? Though maybe being dead n' all rules him out.
I thought that Cassie's father's ghost (wow! that's a lot of possessives!) was trapped in an Amulet of some sort held by Antonio (Tony) when her parents were killed. Tony, who is now trapped in Faery allegedly has this device with him. I guess this could be construed as "chained" in the sense he is unable to escape. So maybe the father isn't "dead" dead, and will be able to make a comeback.
Yeah, I think he's in a paperweight in Tony's possession. I rather thought if he were released that Cassie would be able to see and talk to him, just like she can with Billy Joe. So dead, but still around, if you see what I mean! I dunno if this really has anything to do with warring gods to be honest. When I thought of who was restricted to a box-like device, he popped into my head. We just don't know enough about Cassie's father to know whether he's related to gods, wolves or whoever.If Cassie ever releases her father, will she have to start wearing two fugly necklaces?! :D
Yeah, a paperweight on a chain ;)
LOL! Cassie is the queen of craptastic jewellery!
you know how when billy went to faerie & he wasnt a ghost anymore? do you think the same will happen to cassie's father?? not that i think they'll have a loving reunion & all cause last time they met they didnt exactly get along (understatement, lol) but it might be nice if cassie got the chance to hug her father.
That's possible actually! That would be kinda weird if her father was able to exist properly in Faerie, but couldn't ever come back to the real world. I think Cassie's going to find out the reason why her father did all the things he's done in the past, and I don't believe he's a bad guy. I think everything he's done has been to protect Cassie's mother, and when Cassie learns this, she'll forgive him for everything.I'm wondering though about how Cassie's mother somehow merged her soul or whatever with her father, to keep the Ouroboros spell going. I wonder how that would affect things?
Amy wrote: "I need to reread what Marsden said. It was so confusing that I always skim through it :x"Yeah, I know what you mean Amy. Between gods with about three different names, plus various children of gods and various mythologies and prophecies, yeah, it gets a bit confusing! :)
Here's my (limited) understanding of it all ... (if I've missed anything, hopefully someone else can chime in).
Ragnarok is the 'Twilight of the Gods' - a great war that will decide the fate of the world. The three children of the god Loki are destined to fight in Ragnarok.
- 1st child of Loki is Jormungandr, AKA the Ouroboros spell, the snake that eats itself
Defeats Thor, AKA Apollo (This was most of Books 3 and 4)
(And no, I don't know how a child can be a spell either. Gods make their own dam rules!!)
- 2nd child is Artemis, AKA Hel, AKA Cassie's mum
Fated to defeat Tyr, AKA Ares
Ares mated with one of the dragon kin a while back and produced the Spartoi dudes that Cassie fights
Ares is also the father of Morrigan, the dark fey queen, who tried to possess Cassie (she co-operated because they kidnapped her husband)
- 3rd child is Fenrir the wolf
Shackled by Odin, king of the gods, but destined to escape and kill him.
This is the one we think might be a shapeshifter? No ideas about Odin though. I think we haven't seen him yet.
Going through all this, I became confused because I don't think it actually says anywhere that Ares has definitely been killed (someone correct me if I'm wrong please??) Cassie speculates that because the gods have mostly been banished, their children are fighting out Ragnarok. But since Artemis is still kinda around and the Ouroboros was still around, I don't know that we can definitely assume that (but I might be forgetting something or getting mixed up).
By the way, I did a little googling on Ares, and he has a sister called Enyo! (Enyo is one of the Graeae). Do you think this is the same Enyo, or do the Greeks just like to reuse names?
Final note: Marsden says in Hunt the Moon that Artemis is protected by a fierce guard dog named Garm and together they are destined to defeat Tyr. This is obviously Cassie's father. So does 'dog' imply that he's a shapeshifter too? Could he be Fenrir the wolf? He is certainly shackled at the moment, but since it was Tony, or a mage in Tony's employment that trapped him, this would imply that Tony is Odin, which ain't likely to me.
Lannister wrote: " I became confused because I don't think it actually says anywhere that Ares has definitely been killed "im pretty sure your right about this - i dont recall anyone saying they actually defeated the last god as well...
I think so long as Cassie's father exists (even in the paperweight), the Ouroboros spell continues. I'm not sure that releasing his spirit would end the spell necessarily, but destroying his spirit would. At least, that's my understanding of things. Cassie's mother joined her soul in some way with Cassie's father (it doesn't really explain how). I don't believe her soul is connected to Cassie though (unless they share some sort of general connection via the pythia power, or even just a mother/daughter bond.)
I think it's possible that Cassie's father could be Fenrir. There's been a lot of build up about him over the course of the books and you'd think it has to be going somewhere, and the wolf/dog connection seems like a huge clue. But I honestly don't know. If KC had never written anything about shapeshifters, I'd say he was the front runner, but since she has established some background about shifters in her short stories, I don't think we can assume anything.
I haven't quite got my head around all the various Fae divisions. I need to re-read the Dory books again to try to figure out where everyone's loyalties lie!
"Rian" means "queen" in Gaelic (at least it did in old Gaelic). Could that be a hint that Rozier will be killed and Rian (now powerful from centuries on Earth) will replace him as ruler of the Incubi?
That's a very intriguing idea! It would be an amazing Easter Egg, since it was staring us in the face all the time. :DI have a strong suspicion that Rian's story isn't finished yet, and now we know how powerful demon lords can be killed, so this is definitely a possibility. I likes!!
In Curse the Dawn when Mircea and Cassie are on the plane, she gives him a tarot reading and goes on to explain -"The two cards are often associated with each other. An emperor only secures power through the death of his predecessor, he stays in power partially by the fear of death he inspires and his power ends with his own death."
Karen said in an interview once that Mircea is the emperor in the major arcana and mentioned the cards as possible easter eggs in one of the blog ramblings. Do you think that this potentially foreshadows his death or am I fussing over nothing?
I need peoples opinions because iv been worried sick all day, the thought of him dying breaks my heart in to little pieces lol My love for the guy is unhealthy!
No need for it to mean his death. I think his death would end all 2.5 series. Why would KC do that.What was the other card?
Winterr, I think at the time I assumed it was something to do with Apollo, but I'm not so sure now after reading it again. I agree with Kathleen that I don't it's about Mircea, however it could be about The Consul. It would certainly fit her past and could be foreshadowing of her death in the future, so I want it to be this!! :)I don't think Mircea will die, unless it was at the very end if the series, but even then it's probably not that likely. But Snakey was already having threats on her life during Curse the Dawn, so you never know!
Also, yay for another Missie in the group! We need more of you guys. :D
*re-emerges from behind a curtain* I HAVE RETURNED!!!Sorry, thought I'd finally show up on this forum again after hiding for far too long.
Winterr, I don't think KC would kill off Mircea, mainly because I just can't see how she'd do it. He's such a key character in both the Cassie and Dory series that you couldn't really not show his death happening in either, and she can't really do it twice. I can't see how she'd make that work.
Plus since the emperor and death combination is talking about a change of power via death, I'd always assumed it was talking about Saunders dying and being replaced by Marsden, which would fit, as the cards tend to give a clue for the overall plot in THAT book, and it was a major point of the book since now Cassie is allied with the circle.
I agree with Somnium. I think that in that book, the emperor was Saunders and the cards' prediction came through.
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Of course this got me madly scrambling for hints.
So what hints have you noticed?
How do you think a hint will play out plot-wise?