Twilight
discussion
This is Pride and Prejudice in the 21 century.
Diane Annihilate, what thread are you on? Anytime someone attacks Twilight you immediately point out that such person missed the point of the thread, so please clarify?Natalie, you sound like a hard-die fan who is ashamed to admit you love Twilight. You keep stressing that you don't necessarily like Twilight and have read P&P, blah, blah, blah, but yet you get so worked up at anyone who goes against Twilight. You have gone on rants defending Twilight to anyone who dares to get upset at this light fare that is Twilight. Then you go on and say that Eirinn "you just waisted five mins of your life writing that analysis." but yet it seems like that's what you've been doing more so than anyone else on this thread.
Eirinn, I love it...mouse turds vs. apples. You couldn't have said it any better!
Licha wrote: "Diane Annihilate, what thread are you on? Anytime someone attacks Twilight you immediately point out that such person missed the point of the thread, so please clarify?Natalie, you sound lik..."
I can't really say anything for other posts Natalie may have made about Twilight, but she doesn't sound like an unreasonable fangirl to me, she sounds like someone who is pointing out the foolishness of saying the two stories can't be compared. She hasn't gone on long ranting tangents about how Twilight is the greatest book ever. She's pointed out that Twilight has just as much right to compared to another book, even a classic, as any other book out there. Your posts have been more rant-y than hers. In fact the Austen fangirls in general have done more ranting than any of the Twilight fans here.
Thank you Molly. Licha: I don't know where you got the idea that I am a die-hard fan because i never talked about the qualities of the book at all. Nor have I been one of those persons who has said "omg twilgiht is the best book in the world" on other threads. In fact, there are times when I point out the flaws. I ususally only comment on discussions like this one where it doesn't relate to just the book itself. Also, I am not denying the fact that I enjoyed the book: why on earth would I rate it five stars if I wanted to keep that hidden?
This perticular quote i find amusing: "You keep stressing that you don't necessarily like Twilight and have read P&P, blah, blah, blah, but yet you get so worked up at anyone who goes against Twilight. You have gone on rants defending Twilight to anyone who dares to get upset at this light fare that is Twilight"
Lets get one thing certian: I have never put someone down for their comments against twilight. If they wanna' talk about the flaws in the book go ahead, fine by me. I acknowledge these flaws, i just don't care to bring them up when its so widly known. kind of redundant. so, if you think that I shoot everyone down on comments your wrong, i am shooting down the comment about writing about twilght, completely different. its kinda crucial that you understand this difference, 'cause you obviously don't.
Okay, when did I ever say I didn't like twlight? I said its crappy, but that hardly means what you are suggesting. Everyone knows that twilight is poorly written, terrible plot, anti-fem, etc etc. When have I 'got so worked up?". The only thing that I have said is how silly people are thinking that you cant compare the two works. It drives me nuts. This is part of my job description every day, so yeah, it grinds my gears when people say you cant when its being done right now, will be done, has been done, and will continue to be done. Next time you read an article that compares and contrasts two works remember that they are drawing up comparisons.
Another thing: when have I defended twilight? The only thing i have defended is that you can sucessfully compare and contrast the two works whether you want to 'agree' or not. That is not defending twilight. Go to another thread and see how much people stick up for the book and compare it to myself. I am not even touching base on the book qualities at all.
Oh, in reference to my 'active' posts on this topic and how i have been 'doing it more' than anyone else here. So, the more you participate the more you 'defend' twilight? I am not defending twilight..its actually laughable how you think I am. I am defending the act of comparing the two. You definitely need to understand the different, otherwise you will but-heads with more people than just me in the near future. Also, its called procrastination, or that i'm on vacation, so yes, i like to discuss books on my break.
what is even more hilarious, is that everyone who has said its not possible to compare the two works are contradicting themselves without even noticing. The mere fact that we are discussing how its difficult to compare the two is indeed a comparison. Or, the fact that someone has even started this thread is proof. I have written academic papers in front of me now (that i am pocrastinating to mark) that have been written by univeristy students about some of the parallels. Most of the parallels are contrasts and speak highly of P&P and lowly of Twilight, but, its still a comparison, is it not?
Not that this matters, but it helps reinforce the issue some are too blind to acknowledge: I'm a univ. TA= member of the english department (not faculty though) and a student. We (the faculty and department) have these discussions allll the time, so, its kinda' funny how everyone says its not possible. Or the mere fact that some students chose to compare austin to meyer in a academic paper. Some of them are quite good...they go into the anti-feminist issues of twilight and praise P&P. I only have four, but its still 'written' comparisions. As I still stand: any published work is deemed to be compared with another work, whether you like it or not.
ps:ignore typos, etc. I didn't edit this
okay, now i should really be marking these papers. must. not. comment. for. many. hours.
I have not read up on your profile. I am only going on what you have written on this particular thread. If you go back and read your posts they sound angry. The thread was saying Twilight was the 21st century P&P. It is obvious people are going to comment both in defense of P&P and in defense of Twilight. However it seems that when anyone here has spoken up for P&P all the Twilight fans get upset.You say Twilight is crappy but then say you like it, which is what perhaps is confusing to anyone who reads it. It's contradictory. I read Twilight too and it's very light fare. If I'd been a teenager maybe I would have liked it more. I still don't think it compares to P&P at all. So you get upset at people because of this, but isn't that just as valid an opinion as those who think they do compare?
Licha wrote: "I have not read up on your profile. I am only going on what you have written on this particular thread. If you go back and read your posts they sound angry. The thread was saying Twilight was th..."Where are the Twilight fans seriously upset? Why is there a need to defend P&P? It feels like the people defending P&P have been getting way more upset than the ones Twilight.
Also, it's perfectly possible to know a book is crappy and still enjoy it. That's the reason I like Twilight. It's god awful, but it's god awful in all right the ways to make it hilarious. I feel the same way about Swoon, the Baby Sitter's Club, Knight Moves (quite possibly the most hilarious and terrifying erotic romance "novel" ever), The Wickerman remake with Nicholas Cage, Street Fighter the movie, and the second High School Musical movie. There's a trope for this: So bad, it's good: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php...
Natalie wrote: "Thank you Molly. Licha: I don't know where you got the idea that I am a die-hard fan because i never talked about the qualities of the book at all. Nor have I been one of those persons who has ..."
You make your claim a bit uncertain when you spell Austen as Austin.
I guess we could go back and forth on which fans have gotten angrier over this and we'd never win because it's all in perspective. But the counter-attack does make me wonder who in fact is really upset. I'm putting my opinion out there that Twilight does not measure up to P&P. If you're talking about similarities in plot, character, etc then I need to get off this thread because this is not Lit 101. The fun was to see how many people agreed or disagreed if the books compared. So once again I say loud and clear HECK NO!
Kagama wrote: "Natalie wrote: "Thank you Molly. Licha: I don't know where you got the idea that I am a die-hard fan because i never talked about the qualities of the book at all. Nor have I been one of those ..."
well when you have been marking papers all day, have the flu, yeah, shit happens. Also, i didn't edit what I wrote..it even said that.
Licha wrote: "I still don't think it compares to P&P at all. So you get upset at people because of this, but isn't that just as valid an opinion as those who think they do compare?"You may have misunderstood something there, in her post she doesn't deny the fact that "twilight" doesn't compare to "Pride & Prejudice", she's just against people saying that one can't or shouldn't compare the two.
And the self-contradiction of doing this by using a comparative statement to make their point.
Natalie wrote: "Kagama wrote: "Natalie wrote: "Thank you Molly. Licha: I don't know where you got the idea that I am a die-hard fan because i never talked about the qualities of the book at all. Nor have I bee..."
I understand. Flu is never good.
I'm not a fan of Austen . . . I actually quite dislike her work. However, the quality of Meyer's prose is inferior to pretty much everything I've ever read. Decent stories very poorly written.Austen, on the other hand, wrote uninteresting stories written well.
I'd doubt that Meyer's work will endure like Austen's has, but I'd also be happy if neither work existed at all.
Mike wrote: "I'm not a fan of Austen . . . I actually quite dislike her work. However, the quality of Meyer's prose is inferior to pretty much everything I've ever read. Decent stories very poorly written.A..."
A lot of people seem to think in that manner: Austen can write her-ass off and tell yawn worthy stories, but meyer is shitty writer with a great backdrop. I guess it all depends on what you like.
Gerd wrote: "Licha wrote: "I still don't think it compares to P&P at all. So you get upset at people because of this, but isn't that just as valid an opinion as those who think they do compare?"You may have..."
I'm glad someone undersood. I was begninging to think tha the fever & marking papers all day was starting to take over lol.
Mike wrote: "I'm not a fan of Austen . . . I actually quite dislike her work. However, the quality of Meyer's prose is inferior to pretty much everything I've ever read. Decent stories very poorly written.A..."
Some of the stories that Jane Austen wrote are classic stories that are retold and remade all the time so they can't be that boring if over two hundred years later they are still being told and retold. Her stories have become classic love stories that everyone knows. Pride and Prejudice is the inspiration for "Brigit Jones." Emma was the inspiration for the movie "Clueless." The story of a pompous man who offends a woman and then falls in love with her against his better judgment and all the while she can't stand him, but eventually falls for him in return started with Pride and Prejudice. But books like "Twilight" don't capture the complexity of the characters' personalities or their relationships. Bella is obsessed with Edward within the first 4 chapters. there is no resistance from Bella she immediately fall for him, and Edward isn't proud he is just intrigued by her scent, not her personality because she doesn't have one at all. the storyline is very thin in Twilight and cannot be compared at all to the brilliance of Jane Austen
Sarah wrote: "Mike wrote: "I'm not a fan of Austen . . . I actually quite dislike her work. However, the quality of Meyer's prose is inferior to pretty much everything I've ever read. Decent stories very poorly ..."well, technically speaking you can compare the two. if you were making comparisions you would draw on how uncomplex the characters are and the plot are in comparison to P&P. But I do agree with you. Twilight is a sad excuse for P&P, although I can see at times where meyer was inspired by P&P. Its thin, but its there.
Sarah wrote: "Mike wrote: "I'm not a fan of Austen . . . I actually quite dislike her work. However, the quality of Meyer's prose is inferior to pretty much everything I've ever read. Decent stories very poorly ..."I actually think that's why her stories bore me so much. Austen can write, but her books are stories I already know. There's no tension for me because I'e seen the cliche's and tropes used a million times by this point. I know she was the original, and that all the ones I've read and seen are retellings of her work, but still, been there done that. Besides, her books aren't the kind that I can go back and read a dozen times like some others.
True, Twilight is just another badly written retelling of a boring plot, but it's written in such a way that it's hilariously bad. Bella is annoying, whiny, self-obessed, and literally the embodiment of all the annoying traits weak female love interests are in Paranormal romances. Edward is the same for the demon lovers. Twilight is the Lifetime Movies version of a Paranormal romance: over the top, stupid, cliched, and just terrible in all the most amusing ways.
Seriously Twilight and Pride and Prejudice are NOTHING ALIKE!!! How can you even think that. There is no connection between those two TOTALLY UNRELATED STORIES. If you searching for modern version of P&P try
you can even find Mr. Darcy there. But please DO NOT THERE to say that Twilight is a modern P&P
Molly wrote: "Twilight is...over the top, stupid, cliched, and just terrible in all the most amusing ways." hah, I agree.
Sarah wrote: ...Pride and Prejudice is the inspiration for "Brigit Jones." Emma was the inspiration for the movie "Clueless."I'm not sure that inspiring a couple of rom-coms watched by idiots is enough to prove that Austen came up with brilliant and enduring plots. I take your point but mainly, I just genuinely love the fact that Alicia Silverstone has been used as an argument to defend Austen.
Allow me to counter your use of 'Clueless' as evidence of Austen being worthy with a quote from Mark Twain.
"I haven't any right to criticise books, and I don't do it except when I hate them. I often want to criticise Jane Austen, but her books madden me so that I can't conceal my frenzy from the reader; and therefore I have to stop every time I begin. Everytime I read 'Pride and Prejudice' I want to dig her up and beat her over the skull with her own shin-bone."
- Letter to Joseph Twichell, 13 September 1898
Mike wrote: "Sarah wrote: ...Pride and Prejudice is the inspiration for "Brigit Jones." Emma was the inspiration for the movie "Clueless."I'm not sure that inspiring a couple of rom-coms watched by idiots i..."
Lol, I love Mark Twain.
Almost every Harlequin romance from the Sixties and Seventies rehashes the dynamic of “Pride and Prejudice” in one form or another. There’s nothing distinctive about the relationship between Elizabeth and D’arcy itself; it’s Austen’s insight into her society, her literary craftsmanship, and scintillating dialog that make her novel a classic and “Twilight” and similar fare just watery bouillon by comparison. To misquote Tennyson, “‘Twilight’ is the lesser Austen; all its passions matched with hers / Are as moonlight unto sunlight and as dish-rags unto furs.” Edward’s dialog doesn’t glitter; his skin does—and thereby hangs the tale. I believe Ms Meyer has said somewhere that there will always be a lot of light in her books; I’m not sure whether she meant the cutaneous kind, but you want to lean over, tap her on the arm, and whisper, “Steph, dear, that’s not light. That’s just bad writing.”
I’m not a literary snob. It doesn’t have to all be Updike and Murdoch. I love reading trash like Judith Krantz and Harold Robbins; but when vampires start waiting till they’re married to have sex, it’s time to toss these glorified right-wing tracts and watch “Dynasty” re-runs.
Paul wrote: "Almost every Harlequin romance from the Sixties and Seventies rehashes the dynamic of “Pride and Prejudice” in one form or another. There’s nothing distinctive about the relationship between Eliza...""tap her on the arm, and whisper, “Steph, dear, that’s not light. That’s just bad writing.”"
hahaha. So true.
I agree about Twilight being the 'lesser' of the two.
Licha wrote: "Diane Annihilate, what thread are you on? Anytime someone attacks Twilight you immediately point out that such person missed the point of the thread, so please clarify?Natalie, you sound lik..."
Well because you said: "All you Twilight fans need to stop trying to make people believe that Twilight is some kind of great classic. "
I pointed out that the original poster said that he wasn't comparing them from a literary stand point nor the setting of the story.
Nobody was trying to convince anyone that twilight is "some kind of great classic".
Natalie wrote: "A lot of people seem to think in that manner: Austen can write her-ass off and tell yawn worthy stories, but meyer is shitty writer with a great backdrop. I guess it all depends on what you like. "Haha... I agree with this. xD
So well stated. It seems everyone jumped down my throat though when i tried to say that these two stories did not compare.
Gerd wrote: "Minerva wrote: "oh please! don't compare this teenage oriented rubbish with such a classic as Pride and Prejudice!..."
And yet you do exactly that when you point out that:
"Bella" is a lous..."
You're right. Perhaps I was misunderstood. I did not mean that these two books can't be compared in a literal sense. As you see I did compare the characters.
What I meant by my "compare" was simply that I do not find that Twilight can be said to be a Pride and Prejudice of the 21st century. I don't think they go in the same category as quality writing goes that's all. I think that Twilight's character needed more of a sense of realism, even if it is fantasy. It seemed to me that making it all work out perfect for the main characters it losses out to other similar literary works.
Don't get me wrong I like happy endings, but as I read Twilight it kinda felt contrived in the end. I would have like Meyer to take a risk with some of her characters, but for a first book not too bad.
But of course that is also up to debate depending on taste.
Mike wrote: "I'm not sure that inspiring a couple of rom-coms watched by idiots ..."Gee thanks, I luv you, too.
Uhm, I'm sorry but I'm disgusted that anyone even tried to compare the two....... I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight. Oh, my god no! Just no!
Mathis wrote: "Okay, I wasn't going to do any in depth comparison between Pride and Prejudice and Twilight. But since most of you don't see the parallels, I guess I will lay them down. Lets begin with the simila..."Umm "Bella's character exuded: confidence, decisiveness, tenacity and fearlessness. She didn't let anything stand in her way." yeah nothing stands in the way except her boyfriend dumping her. Somehow I can't see Elizabeth becoming catatonic if Mr Darcy didn't love her or throwing herself off a cliff to hear his voice.
Does anybody think that any other of the Twilight books are like any other Austens, or any other similar books? Maybe New Moon is a bit like Persuasion or Jane Eyre, (apart from the reasons for separation). With being separated by slightly insignificant reasons despite still loving the other, and then both realising that they really couldn't cope without each other... Then doing the whole 'happily ever after...' bit.....And I mean by ideas and scheme of the plot, not about if these books are like/better than each other... Everyone has their own opinions, but just going off inspirateion for the Meyer books.
Ashley wrote: yeah nothing stands in the way except her boyfriend dumping her. Somehow I can't see Elizabeth becoming catatonic if Mr Darcy didn't love her or throwing herself off a cliff to hear his voice. "
I agree, but I don't think he was comparing P&P to New Moon, just Twilight.
No I wasn't suggesting Pride and Prejudice with anything else, rather suggesting maybe Jane Eyre or Persuasion as being similar to New Moon, as since she most probably got inspiration from P&P she may have with her other books, and wondering if anyone else thought this may be the cas.
Isabel wrote: "Does anybody think that any other of the Twilight books are like any other Austens, or any other similar books? Maybe New Moon is a bit like Persuasion or Jane Eyre, (apart from the reasons for sep..."Meyer was inspired by classic novels while writing the series... if that helps you at all.
I saw more connection with Romeo and Juliet when I was reading New Moon.
Natalie wrote: "Ashley wrote: yeah nothing stands in the way except her boyfriend dumping her. Somehow I can't see Elizabeth becoming catatonic if Mr Darcy didn't love her or throwing herself off a cliff to hear h..."He did however make character comparisons and the characters remain consistent throughout the Twilight series, there is very little, almost zero, character development or growth.
Ashley wrote: "Natalie wrote: "Ashley wrote: yeah nothing stands in the way except her boyfriend dumping her. Somehow I can't see Elizabeth becoming catatonic if Mr Darcy didn't love her or throwing herself off a..."I understand that, but I do think it was just Twilight he was talking about. I'm not even sure if he read New Moon yet. I don't disagree with you in regards to twilight having "very little, almost zero, character development or growth".
It seems more like what I've heard of Wuthering Heights.
Erin wrote: "Rusalka wrote: "Jane Austen is rolling over in her grave now and punching herself in the face no doubt.Ignoring the abysmal writing, the sparkling boy and the horrible story, let's look at the fe..."
Are you seriously comparing Edward to Aslan, and indirectly to Jesus Christ?
You have got to be kidding me. Edward is nothing compared to Mr. Darcy or to Aslan. Edward is only Bella's hero because she's too moody and lacks the self-confidence, self-sufficiency, and backbone to live without a man who puts her in danger just by being near her.
Mathis wrote: "What a delight! delight! delight! This book was an enchanting read. Here's Pride and Prejudice turns vampiric in the 21 century.The story is about a tomboy teenage girl by the name of Bella, who ..."
Im sorry I never got the vibe that Edward/Bella had the same love hate thing that Mr. Darcy/Elisabeth had.
Gerd wrote: "Minerva wrote: "oh please! don't compare this teenage oriented rubbish with such a classic as Pride and Prejudice!..."
And yet you do exactly that when you point out that:
"Bella" is a lous..."
Oh I so loved Mr. Darcy and hated Edward. Elisabeth never has herself thinking her world is over without her man. Where Bella just crumbles and wants to die.
Mathis wrote: "Okay, I wasn't going to do any in depth comparison between Pride and Prejudice and Twilight. But since most of you don't see the parallels, I guess I will lay them down. Lets begin with the simila..."You said Bella's character exuded: confidence, decisiveness, tenacity and fearlessness. She was a love sick puppy that just made a fool of herself. Don't get me wrong, I love the books, and P&P. But she was a weak weak woman.
Rachel wrote: "Mathis wrote: "Okay, I wasn't going to do any in depth comparison between Pride and Prejudice and Twilight. But since most of you don't see the parallels, I guess I will lay them down. Lets begin ..."Agreed, except for the loving the Twilight books. What part of her could have possibly portrayed those characteristics? Bella was a spineless roach, content to mope and wallow in self-pity for choosing to be in Forks. Nothing, nothing in the books redeemed her.
Twilight and Pride & Prejudice? Um, are we even mentioning these two in the SAME SENTENCE????? As far as I'm concerned, there is absolutely NOTHING in common with these two books, other than the fact that its a romance book. I LOVED Pride & Prejudice, and Twilight is okay. I just don't see them in the same category.
Twilight = a mildly addictive book published in 2005
Pride & Prejudice = a proper, prim read published in, what? Late eighteenth century? Early nineteenth?
I've never even THOUGHT of this. NO NO NO NO. They are COMPLETELY different books. I have read both. And I see no, and I mean NO, similarities between them.
Btw... Whoever started this topic. I mean no offense. I will gladly listen to why you think they are similiar. This is just my opinion. So I'm not getting pissy on you. I just don't think they're all that similar. :) :) :)
Twilight = a mildly addictive book published in 2005
Pride & Prejudice = a proper, prim read published in, what? Late eighteenth century? Early nineteenth?
I've never even THOUGHT of this. NO NO NO NO. They are COMPLETELY different books. I have read both. And I see no, and I mean NO, similarities between them.
Btw... Whoever started this topic. I mean no offense. I will gladly listen to why you think they are similiar. This is just my opinion. So I'm not getting pissy on you. I just don't think they're all that similar. :) :) :)
Amy wrote: "I saw more connection with Romeo and Juliet when I was reading New Moon."That could be because she beat the audience over the head with that comparison early on in the book.
Anne wrote: " Twilight and Pride & Prejudice? Um, are we even mentioning these two in the SAME SENTENCE????? As far as I'm concerned, there is absolutely NOTHING in common with these two books, other than the ..."They will get pissy on you. Anytime someone shouts a resounding NO all the Twilight fans practically jump down your throat! I agree with your POV, by the way.
Licha wrote: "They will get pissy on you. Anytime someone shouts a resounding NO all the Twilight fans practically jump down your throat! I agree with your POV, by the way. "Really? From this thread I would think that it's P&P people who jump down your throat for suggesting such a thing, or having an opinion that could possibly link Twilight and P&P. I've seen it happen else where too. Hell, just try telling some Austen fangirls that you don't like Austen books, they react just as badly as Twilight fangirls do, and they're usually older than Twilight fans too.
Molly wrote: "Amy wrote: "I saw more connection with Romeo and Juliet when I was reading New Moon."That could be because she beat the audience over the head with that comparison early on in the book."
Wow. No need to be so rude. I was commenting on the fact it was more of a R&J story versus some of the others that were suggested for New Moon.
Amy wrote: "Molly wrote: "Amy wrote: "I saw more connection with Romeo and Juliet when I was reading New Moon."That could be because she beat the audience over the head with that comparison early on in the ..."
I'm sorry, I didn't meant to be offensive or rude. I was trying to make a joke. I always forget that my brand of really bad humor doesn't translate well over the internet. ^^;
Meyer does get a little too obvious with the comparisons to R&J for my taste, but I can see a teenaged girl in Bella's situation making the comparison to Romeo and Juliet and feeling like it was a tragedy. Actually, the week before last my friend was making a similar comparison herself, although the situations were completely different. So you are right, in that the comparison there is completely reasonable. I just wish Meyer would have been a little more subtle about what she thinks her story compares too.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
A Midsummer Night’s Dream (other topics)
The Last Battle (other topics)
Twilight (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
Bridget Jones’s Diary (other topics)A Midsummer Night’s Dream (other topics)
The Last Battle (other topics)
Twilight (other topics)
I find it interesting that you would open your attack on "twilight" by using a highly unrealistic, romanticized view of bygone days. Makes it look to me that at the fan base there's more in common between these books than immediately meets the eye.