Amazon is going away as a data source Showing 1,251-1,300 of 1,599

[Sandra]

Boeken Trol, if the rescue page doesn't ask for page numbers that is because it is already saved.

I'd assume the publisher/description problem came from the updates, which did have some problems.

[Alessandra]

Wait ... I stopped looking at this page 366 comments ago. Has there been further news about just what the heck it was Amazon did in the meantime? I ask because some comments on this page seem to suggest more knowledge than was available a few days ago, but I'm not great at searching through this thread to find information.

[Grada (BoekenTrol)]

Sandra wrote: "Boeken Trol, if the rescue page doesn't ask for page numbers that is because it is already saved.

I'd assume the publisher/description problem came from the updates, which did have some problems."

I know that the data that is not asked for is already saved. That's just the point! Page numbers are saved for a certain book. After filling out and saving the rescue form (that is not asking for the page number) the page number is blank when I return to the book's page / edit data part. Same goes on and off for translator, synopsis and publisher. :-(

[Paula]

Re 1282 - Can you link to a book where this has happened so we can review

[Grada (BoekenTrol)]

Paula wrote: "Re 1282 - Can you link to a book where this has happened so we can review"

This was one book it happened with. http://www.goodreads.com/book/edit/32...

My name is at the bottom of the page for many additions, but I can't find a date to see when I added the 150 pages before today. Maybe you can find something unusual?
If it happens again with other books, I will add more links here. Thanks for looking into it.

[Jennifer]

This may have been asked before and I overlooked it, if so, I apologize. There's a lot of information in the various threads to take in.

I was wondering is Open Library ok to use as a source? It's a project of archive.org, but it's editable by users like wikipedia is. I didn't know if that fact would make it unacceptable or not.

http://openlibrary.org/

[Patrick]

Just to clarify, if you already rescued a book--Kindle edition, CreateSpace, or otherwise--it will stay rescued. We haven't undone any rescues, as even back when we thought we'd get a feed of the books, author or user-entered data was preferable to data from Amazon.

I'm looking into the deadline question, but my guess is that it isn't as specifically defined as that. We'll get shut off at some point on Monday. But I'm not 100% sure of that.

We realize that this is a major inconvenience and a pain. If there were any way we could have avoided this, we'd have done it. Thanks for your continued efforts. I'll do my best to keep you posted.

[Anna]

pjreads ♫ wrote: "Audrey wrote: "Can someone confirm if the drop dead date is Monday 12:01AM (Pacific time) or Monday 11:59PM (Pacific time)?"

Has this question been answered?"

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...

message 24

[Sara]

Is there a way we can see the books that need to be rescue in a specific language?

i.e I'm portuguese so i would like to help rescue books by portuguese authors or translated into portuguese

[Michael]

Well, this is a bit of a pain.

[Paula]

Sara wrote: "Is there a way we can see the books that need to be rescue in a specific language?

i.e I'm portuguese so i would like to help rescue books by portuguese authors or translated into portuguese"

Nope there is not

[Becky]

Anna wrote: "pjreads ♫ wrote: "Audrey wrote: "Can someone confirm if the drop dead date is Monday 12:01AM (Pacific time) or Monday 11:59PM (Pacific time)?"

Has this question been answered?"

http://www.goodrea..."

I don't think it's been answered in this thread, but Patrick answered a similar question in the other one:

Audrey wrote: "Patrick, do we have until the end of the day Jan. 30th or does it go down 12:01am on Sunday night/Monday morning? I know that's a technical/nitpicky question, but a lot of people aren't around on w..."

That I'm not sure about. My guess is it's not actually a specific time, but that at some time on Monday they'll just cut us off. I'll do a little research tomorrow afternoon and see what I can find out.

Message 24 here. http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...

[Patrick]

Just an update:

I can confirm that the deadline is 11:59 pm PT on Monday (meaning Monday night).

[Sara ♥]

Well that's something, at least!

[Hélène]

Here are two academic resources for French books :
http://halley.ens.fr/
http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/
I do hope they can be trusted for references...

[Brixton]

To those who have asked if goodreads would like us to write letters of complaint to amazon, etc: It would be bad business form for goodreads to advocate a boycott, letter-writing campaign to amazon or to make a site-wide announcement about this that is anything other than neutral. Letter-writing campaigns and boycotts are grassroots tactics, it is best they be organised from the bottom-up. When I've worked on volunteer projects (mostly of a political nature), volunteer organisers have a little joke we make: when someone says, "I think we should...", we answer, "Well then, it sounds like you're the first volunteer!"

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I don't know what anyone else will do, but I'm sure my local bookstore is going to be quite happy about my decision to shun Amazon whenever possible.

[Ridley]

So, are all the big imports done now? Will there be nothing else to save all these books beyond librarians' manual rescues?

It's a really daunting number of books. I just want to know how much panic to allot to this project.

[Snail in Danger (Sid)]

Only sort of on topic ... on the import/export page (I just backed up my shelves so I don't lose the 2 books I could only find commercial sources for), there is a note that GR recommends a particular bar code scanner and a "buy it from Amazon" link. When there is time I hope GR will consider making that go away, in light of all this jerking around from Amazon. :)

[Her Royal Orangeness]

There are still quite a few UK publishers that are not being included in the updates. My rescue list is getting shorter, but when I look up titles I don't have logged on GR, they're in danger. Is this problem still being addressed?

[Audrey]

@Alessandra #1281 - The big thing that many of us are pissed off about right now is Amazon's announcement to GR yesterday that all data for Kindle and CreateSpace editions will ALSO be removed. Previously, GR had been under the impression that all Kindle info would still be permitted to be sourced from Amazon.

@Patrick #1292 - THANKS! This'll make me sound like the school crammer that I was, but those extra 24 hours really do make a difference. :)

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Ridley, and Her Royal Orangeness, when I input your user ID into the rescue book page, it says all of your books have been rescued. Are you seeing something else, or are you working on friends' lists?

[Sheila]

Brixton wrote: "To those who have asked if goodreads would like us to write letters of complaint to amazon, etc: It would be bad business form for goodreads to advocate a boycott, letter-writing campaign to amazon..."

I don't really blame Amazon. It sounds like Goodreads decided not to renew their licensing agreement with Amazon to use Amazon's data, and Amazon is giving Goodreads until January 30th to stop using Amazon supplied data.

Amazon is a business, with a huge database of books. It is my understanding that if a website like Goodreads choses to use that Amazon database, there are certain rules they have to follow. One of Amazon's conditions of using their data is that if you use it, you link only back to Amazon for book sales. Which is understandable. Amazon probably has a HUGE staff, and pays their staff a large amount of money to maintain their database system. They want anyone who uses their database to send them any business that may be generated from the use of the data, and not send potential book buyers to other book retailers.

Goodreads does not want to ONLY link to Amazon, so Goodreads CHOSE not to continue this data use relationship.

This news story, titled, "As Goodreads Ends Sourcing From Amazon, Users Fear Lost Books", explains it a little bit:

http://paidcontent.org/article/419-as...

So I don't think a boycott of Amazon is really fair. They are just practicing good business sense.

Personally, I like Amazon, I buy from them regularly, I love my kindle, and I will keep using it. And I don't mind adding the books I get from Amazon myself to the Goodreads database.


And for those who want to read the Amazon licensing rules, here they are:
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/...

[John]

Sheila wrote: "I don't really blame Amazon. It sounds like Goodreads decided not to renew their licensing agreement with Amazon to use Amazon's data, and Amazon is giving Goodreads until January 30th to stop using Amazon supplied data. "

Interesting article. I know that librarything sources data from Amazon and as a result has been unable to develop a handheld app. While I use both GR and LT, for me the GR iphone app has been lifechanging. If the changes are driven by the need to be able to support a variety of platforms, so be it, though I still feel the ludicrously short window for members to save their data is of no credit to either Goodreads or Amazon.

[Manybooks]

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Ridley, and Her Royal Orangeness, when I input your user ID into the rescue book page, it says all of your books have been rescued. Are you seeing something else, or are you working on friends' li..."

I think they might be talking about books they have on their bookshelves at home or perhaps at school/university, but had not put on their GR bookshelves yet. I had a lot of German books in that situation, which is why I spent almost two days rescuing books that did not and still do not appear on my GR bookshelves.

[Manybooks]

Sheila wrote: "Brixton wrote: "To those who have asked if goodreads would like us to write letters of complaint to amazon, etc: It would be bad business form for goodreads to advocate a boycott, letter-writing ca..."

Well, I blame Amazon completely. And even if Amazon is a business, the fact that they waited until the very, very last minute with regard to the kindle and create space books shows that they are a corporate bully and utterly classless (there is NO WAY to excuse the fact that they waited until the last minute with the kindle books, in fact, I would call it dishonest that Amazon was telling GR kindle editions were safe and then Amazon suddenly changed its mind, absolutely disgusting, and in my opinion, bordering on criminal).

And I am going to boycott Amazon wherever possible, and I will also will tell friends, relations etc. about this and encourage them to also do the same (and I will enjoy doing this, really enjoy doing this). I probably will still have to use Amazon for non English books, but for books in English, I am going to happily boycott Amazon (oh, I might use Amazon for research, but ha, ha, I will then use other sites to actually buy the books).

[James]

A friend pointed me to this page: http://szts77.hubpages.com/hub/Goodre...

I dunno... just seems like a time-and-energy-wasting power struggle...

[Sheila]

Gundula wrote: "Well, I blame Amazon completely. And even if Amazon is a business, the fact that they waited until the very, very last minute with regard to the kindle and create space books shows that they are a corporate bully and utterly classless (there is NO WAY to excuse the fact that they waited until the last minute with the kindle books, in fact, I would call it dishonest that Amazon was telling GR kindle editions were safe and then Amazon suddenly changed its mind, absolutely disgusting, and in my opinion, bordering on criminal)."

Without knowing the exact conversation that occured between Amazon and Goodreads, there is no way for us to really know exactly how this all went down.

Did Goodreads ASSUME that since kindle books were Amazon unique, they would still be able to get a feed of them from Amazon? Without knowing the exact conversation there is no way to know.

But since the current licensing agreement that Amazon has was last updated April 28, 2011, Goodreads has been BREAKING the terms of the agreement since that time, because Goodreads links to Barnes and Noble mainly, as well as other book sellers on the "get a copy" button links on each book page. And Goodreads has also been venturing into selling e-books here on Goodreads. I find it hard to believe that Goodreads did not know it was breaking the terms of the Amazon data use licensing agreement for all this time.

So I don't blame Amazon. Amazon is just standing up and saying in effect, quit using our data feed for your own profit and for the profit of other booksellers like Barnes and Noble. Goodreads should have seen this coming.

[Chris]

Or then again, it could be:

Oh, you have a wonderful little site going here at GoodReads. We'd just love to squash you out of existence and get all of your members Shelfari accounts.

[Experiment BL626]

James wrote: "A friend pointed me to this page: http://szts77.hubpages.com/hub/Goodre...

I dunno... just seems like a time-and-energy-wasting power struggle..."

Ah Amazon owns Shelfari, Goodreads' rival. Makes more sense now. I do suspect there were never any plan in Amazon's mind to compromise with Goodreads. But why would Amazon need to? Amazon got Shelfari. Why would they help a Shelfari's rival? Bad business sense to do so.

Still... it's still seem all so distasteful.

[Cait]

Jan wrote: "Anyone have a good French source for comics?"

I use http://www.bedetheque.com/ as my first go-to source. French comics, like most other comics and manga, go out of print really really quickly, so it's hard to find publisher info for anything more than a year or so old.

[Manybooks]

Sheila wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Well, I blame Amazon completely. And even if Amazon is a business, the fact that they waited until the very, very last minute with regard to the kindle and create space books shows ..."

But Amazon should NOT have waited until the last minute with regard to the kindle books. That is simply low and puts both those who have kindle books shelved as well as GR librarians in a very problematic position. I do blame Amazon for that, and I think most would and should (even if the original move to terminate the agreement did come form GR).

[Ridley]

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Are you seeing something else, or are you working on friends' lists?"

Looking at friends' lists, as well as the general list.

[Chris]

Here's a question. Why do Kindle ebooks have their own format, where a Nook ebook is simply an "ebook"? What's the difference? Both are ebooks.

To me, the word "Kindle" is giving them advertising. I'm surprised they allow GR the use of the word, to be honest.

[Ridley]

Chris wrote: "Here's a question. Why do Kindle ebooks have their own format, where a Nook ebook is simply an "ebook"? What's the difference? Both are ebooks."

It's a different format. They may look very different from each other and one may have errors the other does not.

[Manybooks]

Chris wrote: "Or then again, it could be:

Oh, you have a wonderful little site going here at GoodReads. We'd just love to squash you out of existence and get all of your members Shelfari accounts."

For sure, and while that might make business sense, it is distasteful and in my opinion, corporate bullying.

[Elizabeth]

Hello all,
Just wanted to give you all some perspective. Over 99 percent of all books on the site already have an alternate data source. Ultimately, we believe that being able to link to all retailers is best for our users, and using the Amazon API was also limiting our mobile app development.
Best,
Elizabeth

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

When I go to a book page, I do not see a "Buy Me" button. Period. I do have an online stores link, which links stores of MY choosing.

Amazon execs probably haven't ever watched Miracle on 34th Street and gotten that while Macy's Santa Claus frequently suggested parents shop other stores, Macy's got the lion's share of the business for doing so. It would have been a smart business decision to be generous. I had only a couple of stores on my online link, and I doubt I'll be using the Amazon one.

[Manybooks]

Elizabeth wrote: "Hello all,
Just wanted to give you all some perspective. Over 99 percent of all books on the site already have an alternate data source. Ultimately, we believe that being able to link to all retai..."

I think most of us strongly would agree with that. Why should GR only be allowed to link to Amazon. It is absolutely ridiculous to the to the extreme (and a total affront) for Amazon to even suggest such a thing, totally unacceptable. This is not "good business sense" it is a big ugly bully flexing its muscles, not caring whom they hurt in the process.

[Brixton]

Question: When I'm looking at a librarian edits page and see on the chart that all fields are attributed to librarians (usually a variety, when I've come across this) except the url is attributed to amazon-- is this book actually safe?

When I've seen this, these books are not marked as at-risk, but I'm becoming more curious about this URL+amazon=danger piece of the puzzle.

[Sara ♥]

Ummm... stupid question, but if Kindle books are Amazon books, what sources can we find them on other than Amazon? Or are we allowed to use Amazon as a source for those since they're the publisher? Or do we need to stick to the author's website? Other ideas? What has everyone been doing? (I obviously don't read ebooks, huh?)

Will ASINs go away after this? In that case, will we just have blank ISBN Kindle editions?

[Manybooks]

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "When I go to a book page, I do not see a "Buy Me" button. Period. I do have an online stores link, which links stores of MY choosing.

Amazon execs probably haven't ever watched Miracle on 34th St..."

I know I will not be, except perhaps if I have to buy a German book (I still have not found a reliable online German bookstore). And I will definitely also be telling others to think twice before using Amazon. Would it not be great if Amazon actually really suffered financially due to this!!

[Ridley]

Must we wax philosophical on the nature of capitalism here? Surely the thread's busy enough.

We get it. Amazon's a douche. Move on.

Back on topic: maybe I missed it in the thread noise, but what is the suggested practice for sourcing Kindle editions without referring to Amazon? I'm good if the author or publisher lists the ASIN on their website, but otherwise I'm at a loss.

[Sheila]

Sara ♥ wrote: "Ummm... stupid question, but if Kindle books are Amazon books, what sources can we find them on other than Amazon? Or are we allowed to use Amazon as a source for those since they're the publisher..."

I rescued the Kindle books that I had that needed to be rescued using the copy of the books which is on my kindle. The ones I needed to rescue only needed the title and author verified, and then I did list them all as being "kindle" versions. But they were actually super fast and easy to rescue, since I only shelve kindle books that I actually have a copy of.

[Sara ♥]

Yes, that does seem like the easiest way! Too bad I don't have/want a Kindle. My mom loves hers, but I love paper books too much. And I'm cheap. :) Libraries are FREE!!

[John]

Gundula wrote: "Sheila wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Well, I blame Amazon completely. And even if Amazon is a business, the fact that they waited until the very, very last minute with regard to the kindle and create space books ..."

Goodreads is probably dealing with low-level Amazon relationship managers and I bet it's the Amazon lawyers who are being inflexible.

I don't suppose this has even got onto the radar screen of the Amazon execs who can see the bigger picture and would be able to authorise a bit of flexibility over the timing to save their corporate reputation. That's the way with these big companies...

[Her Royal Orangeness]

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Ridley, and Her Royal Orangeness, when I input your user ID into the rescue book page, it says all of your books have been rescued. Are you seeing something else, or are you working on friends' lists?"

I've rescued my books. But when I've looked up some other books that I haven't logged on GR, they're in danger. This makes me wonder if those books will have vanished if I come back in a few months to log them. It seems to be exclusively UK publishers - Fourth Estate, Canongate, Chatto & Windus, Picador, Vintage, Virago, etc.

[Helen]

Elizabeth wrote: "Hello all,
Just wanted to give you all some perspective. Over 99 percent of all books on the site already have an alternate data source. Ultimately, we believe that being able to link to all retai..."

That is good news. None of my kindle editions are asking to be rescued. Are they safe or are we still waiting for them to be added to the rescue?

[Sara ♥]

WeaselBox wrote: "HELLO GR! WTF is the plan with ASINs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You seem concerned! :) I don't particularly care whether we have ASINs or not (as I don't do Kindle stuff), but it seems like a fairly important question!

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what I'm supposed to do with my friends' Kindle editions! Alternate sources from Amazon? Bueller? Bueller?

[Manybooks]

Her Royal Orangeness wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Ridley, and Her Royal Orangeness, when I input your user ID into the rescue book page, it says all of your books have been rescued. Are you seeing something else, or are..."

I have the same problems with German books and older, rare English school stories that are on my bookshelves at home, but that I have as yet not put onto my GR bookshelves. I did manage to rescue quite a few German books (especially criticism, history and the like), but there is no way I am going to have the time to check all of my rare/old books (both German and English) and all of my recently purchased German children's literature, at least not by Monday. I will try my best, but ...