Book Club discussion
EDITING
As an Indie Author (who is just starting out!), I think it's pretty important to put your best effort out there. As far as grammar and spelling, these are the easiest to find and fix. Now, that's not to say that you can't miss stuff - I know I have even after reading my work 100 times. It's the story arch, flow, and character depth that is harder as the author to edit. I can't afford a professional editor so I have to rely on my own readings. (Yikes! Talk about pressure!)Still, if a book is good, I'll forgive some "sins". I read the first three My Blood Approves books and they are riddled with grammar/spelling mistakes. It was distracting as hell BUT I also recognized that I only spent a dollar for each one so it wasn't a major investment. I also was sucked into the story enough to keep me going past the bare/bear, "Come with?", and there/their/they're that popped up constantly.
But I would expect near perfection for a published book that costs $9.99 for the ebook.
Thomas wrote: "Let me start with I am a disciple of editing, I am convinced I will only be as good as my editor as far as being a polished and professional author.The biggest complaint being leveled at Independ..."
I have indeed found typographical errors in books from the Big Six. That doesn't excuse indies from being the best they can be. I am an editor with more than 20 years' experience and my rate is smack in the middle of the range for people at my level of experience ($50/hour). However, that's for line edits that correct grammatical errors as well as typos, continuity editing and so on. Simple copy-editing is a matter of negotiation based on the length of the manuscript.
I don't say all of that to look for work, but to tell you that a good editor *is* going to cost you money. You cannot possibly catch all of the errors in your own work; you're too close to it. Even a beta reader should catch errors.
There are always ways to get editorial services. Most towns have a community college, or one nearby; work with the journalism department to see whether an advanced editing student can copy-edit your book for class credit in lieu of payment, for example. Don't despair -- but do make your book as professional as possible.
Errors - at least the glaring ones - pull me out of the story and I'll sometimes abandon the book if the errors get too dire.That being said, forgive me for asking this, but since you guys are indie authors, I thought I'd ask:
Here goes - I'm a freelance editor with a few epubs, and I'm thinking of opening my own business this year (I also work covers, but that's another point). Anyway, my question is:
To you 'struggling' indie authors (and I do mean 'struggling' as in it's not easy for you!) - what do you consider to be a reasonable price for editing?
I want to work with authors and not impose my conditions, but I'll need your feedback for that.
Thanks!
I agree with Zee re: "Errors - at least the glaring ones - pull me out of the story and I'll sometimes abandon the book if the errors get too dire." I do book reviews as well as trying to get into more proofreading and editing. I would really like to get more into the proofreading (since it drives me so crazy to read errors) and editing. I have had two review books that were riddled with typos, lines that had obviously been changed with some words going missing or else doubled up, misused words, and it was so irritating I had a real hard time getting through them. These were published books and e-books, not ARCs.
I like your ideas and would be interested in seeing what comments and feedback you get to your questions. Good luck!
To Zee:I have no idea how much would be reasonable since I have zero experience in this as of yet. So I will state this, as a brand-new Indie (without any real income from my books) I would be willing to pay $20-30 an hour for an editor however, it becomes a catch-22.....I want to get my works edited but I don't have the income yet to do it. But will I get the income if I don't get my work properly edited??? I have no idea.... and this probably doesn't help you one bit so feel free to ignore me. LOL
Betty wrote: "I agree with Zee re: "Errors - at least the glaring ones - pull me out of the story and I'll sometimes abandon the book if the errors get too dire." I do book reviews as well as trying to get into..."
This source will be a huge help: Editorial Rates. This is where I chose my rate of $50/hr, because I do substantive/line edits. You'll also see it's pretty much bang in the middle of the various types of editing.
Good editors are not cheap. In a review, I called out some very poor editing in a published book. It honestly looked like the only thing that had been done was running spell check (which, as my first co-author was wont to say, is not "eff-up check"). The author's extremely indignant response was that he had paid an editor 2 cents per word. You do get what you pay for -- but there are ways, as previously mentioned, to get good copy-editing via college students eager to add to their portfolios.
From what I have seen the rates run from Free to 5 dollars a page. My second novel was 653 pages so at 3.00 per page that works out to $1,959.00 for just that book no money spent on a cover at 3.49 per book selling at 4.99 on Amazon I would have to sell 562 books to break even on just the editing. Hard sell to the wife who pays the bills and tries to make ends meet! I have discussed on various places about how I would love to see a web site gather together Editors (Even want-to-be editors, artists, and work as a team on books for Indie Authors. The question is how to pay everybody. One Idea posted was that an agreement would be made between editors and artists with the author as to how much of the royalties would be paid to each to cover a predetermined specified amount.
Say 10 cents to artists up to $50.00 for cover art, and 10 cents to editors up to $300.00 for editing, until the book is paid for then all the royalties goto the author that would be 20 cents per book of 30 something cents if the authors book was priced at .99 cents like most new ones are. It is just an idea.
But how do you keep everybody honest?
Recent Break out author from Smashwords who got a traditional publishing agreement from her debut work also had the money to pay for professional editing (up front), Professional cover art (up front), and a undisclosed amount for initial advertising upon the self published launch of her new book.Almost Every Indie Author out there would benefit from such garnishing ahead of the books release.
If I had the following
$2,000 budget for editing 120,000 word novel.
$1,500 budget for art work
$3,000 for targeted spot/clickable advertising
______
6,500 up front investment with a great finished novel
I have to sell 1,863 books at 4.99 earning 70% profit of 3.49 to break even.
Fret not Indie Authors, we just have to tread water and get more books out there as best we can. My first book is a good story, barely good enough to carry somebody over the errors. How do I know? Because people are reading it and reviewing it.
It is selling also. In time somewhere between books six and seven if they each get better along the way, which they are, I will be able to afford such extravagant measures for future books paid for from sales of previous books.
Thanks everyone for your responses, and big thanks to Sharon for that link.I'm thinking now it's more a case-by-case decision instead of having a flat fee for all. For example, like Thomas mentioned, at $3 a page for a 600-something page book, that's already $1,959; an astronomical sum any way you look at it!
Even at $1 a page, the edit would cost $600 at least.
Now what if this 600-page book needs only a cleanup, while the 100-page novella needs a total overhaul? You cannot charge the same for both projects because the level of work implied is different.
Hence why I say - a case-by-case basis, depending on how much work the story needs.
I am really enjoying the comments and I hope people dropping by are getting some insights and education into the world of editing Indie Style. Please feel free and comment and share, that's how we all learn and grow.Sincerely Thomas
Zee wrote: "Hence why I say - a case-by-case basis, depending on how much work the story needs. "Which is why I charge by the hour and not by the project. :-)
Sharon? What does that normally run per a book?
Say medium to extensive work for a 50,000 word novel?
Same again for a 120,000 word project, just curious, there are those of us who are saving up for editing.
Like I alluded to earlier, if we (Indie Authors) have a tad bit of talent, enough to carry readers past the inevitable errors in our work, and can get enough books out there for sale, while getting better and learning along the way it is a numbers game.If you publish a book and each month sell just 4 copies more each month than you did the previous month. That would be 312 books the first year. The next year you add a book. Total Book sales of second book mirror the first book while first book you keep gaining four book sales a month for a total of 888 sold of your first book and 312 of your second book by the end of year two. 1200 books sold total of all books by the end of your second year.
If you save this money up to re-invest back into your writing career by the time we get five or six books out and selling spending 5,000 or more up front on editing, cover art, movie trailer, and advertising of your newest launch and now we are competeing on a professional level with the Big Dogs!
By the time we hit ten books or that million word published mark we should be very professional on all levels of our work. Only the most devoted of writers will last that distance!!
Now back to work on your novel!!
Thomas wrote: "Sharon? What does that normally run per a book?
Say medium to extensive work for a 50,000 word novel?
Same again for a 120,000 word project, just curious, there are those of us who are saving ..."
An 80K project I did that required heavy line editing (again, I typically do substantive editing, not just copy edits) came out to $650. Again, I charge $50/hour, and this was 13 hours of work. I also ask for a deposit of $200 (if it takes less than four hours to do a project, I refund as appropriate) after being stiffed on payment once.
If your 120K project requires similar amounts of substantive editing, add on another 5 hours.
If all you want is copy-editing, we negotiate based on the length of the manuscript. Copy-editing is much less labor-intensive. I typically charge around $25/hour for that, but am much more open to discussion (same $200 deposit applies).
Thomas wrote: "Let me start with I am a disciple of editing, I am convinced I will only be as good as my editor as far as being a polished and professional author.The biggest complaint being leveled at Independ..."
As a reviewer (curledup.com), rampant misspellings and errors are one of the few things that really distract from a good story- meaning, no matter how great the tale, if there are a lot of errors, the story falls into the background. If you want your story to shine, it really has to be very close to error free.
I know I'm not the only reviewer/passionate reader who feels this way, tough as it seems.
Sorry...
Carolynn
Carolynn wrote: "As a reviewer (curledup.com), rampant misspellings and errors are one of the few things that really distract from a good story- meaning, no matter how great the tale, if there are a lot of errors, the story falls into the background. If you want your story to shine, it really has to be very close to error free.I know I'm not the only reviewer/passionate reader who feels this way, tough as it seems. "
No need to apologize. As a reviewer, I wholeheartedly concur. Minor typos are one thing; they occur even in traditionally published books from the Big Six. But major homophone/grammar/editorial errors? I definitely knock off points for those.
So Carolynn and Sharon, Indie Authors have to do the best they can to proof their books, find editors, college students, etc. to edit our work until we can afford to pay up front to get it edited. Otherwise we may never reach the point of being able to afford it because we can't build a loyal reader following because of the errors in our work.
Catch 22 of a sort. Good information for those looking to learn about writing.
Sharon Could you elaborate on the different types of editing you have mentioned. I don't know the terminology or know the difference between one type to the next and others who come by here searching for help and knowledge may be in the same boat as me.Thanks Thomas
Sharon wrote: "Zee wrote: "Hence why I say - a case-by-case basis, depending on how much work the story needs. "Which is why I charge by the hour and not by the project. :-)"
Lol - makes total sense! :)
Re: typos, I agree with the earlier posts about typos popping me out of the story. That's the biggest aggravation, simply because they are generally such stupid little errors but are insidious in their proliferation. I actually wrote a blog on that very subject (http://mjb-wordlovers.blogspot.com/20...). Interestingly, I have just recently gotten around to putting some of my books into Smashwords to take advantage of the e-book surge, and their step-by-step process for stripping out Word formatting "junk" brought up a big surprise. When I copied one entire book and pasted it into Notepad, then copied that and pasted it back into a blank Word doc, I of course went through to double-check for any problems. Imagine my surprise when spell-checker came up with several typos that had not alerted in my original document. I don't know why these things slipped by the first time; it's not like they were good words just used in the wrong place. It was things like "moutain" instead of "mountain." That was a real eye-opener. I now plan to do the same procedure for all of my books. I wince when I think of all the typos that may have slipped thru, but better to find them and fix them than have them out there.
Thomas wrote: "Sharon Could you elaborate on the different types of editing you have mentioned. I don't know the terminology or know the difference between one type to the next and others who come by here search..."Sure. Copy-editing looks for formatting issues (e.g., an extra space between words that doesn't belong), typos and homophone errors. It's fairly straightforward and will catch the majority of issues that we've talked about here.
Substantive/line editing looks for all of those things plus grammatical errors, continuity problems, repetitive word/phrase use and other more complicated problems. My clients get an extensive set of notes along with their corrected manuscript, so that they can watch out for such problems in future projects.
Thomas wrote: "So Carolynn and Sharon, Indie Authors have to do the best they can to proof their books, find editors, college students, etc. to edit our work until we can afford to pay up front to get it edited..."
I know there are many readers who don't care about the editorial issues -- because they don't even notice them. I know that I'm The Reader From Hell(TM) because I made my living as a newspaper editor, and errors leap out at me like a creature in a 3D film.
At the end of the day, it behooves us as indie authors to put out a professional product. There are so many naysayers out there who maintain that none of us edit our books or even bother; let's prove them wrong by using any means necessary.
Another thought: if you belong to a writing group, maybe you could trade editorial services with one another. A fresh set of eyes will catch things others didn't. My husband caught a continuity error that I totally missed in my first novel manuscript; thank goodness for that! It was corrected before I submitted the document to anyone.
Thank You Sharon,Like I said, I didn't know the difference or terminology, but now I know what I am talking about concerning the different types of editing!!
"Interestingly, I have just recently gotten around to putting some of my books into Smashwords to take advantage of the e-book surge, and their step-by-step process for stripping out Word formatting "junk" brought up a big surprise. When I copied one entire book and pasted it into Notepad, then copied that and pasted it back into a blank Word doc, I of course went through to double-check for any problems. Imagine my surprise when spell-checker came up with several typos that had not alerted in my original document. I don't know why these things slipped by the first time;"Melissa - I noticed that, too! I also found that if I switched Word programs - going from an older Word to newer Word - I found things that the old spell-checker never found. It was pretty shocking and required a newer upload after fixing up!
Great discussion, everyone. My first venture into publishing was with a small print-on-demand publisher and I've been so pleased with their editing. There are downsides of going with a small publisher vs. self-publishing in terms of the amount of control you have over the process, but my debut novel went through three rounds of edits that made a HUGE difference in the quality and authenticity of the story. (I lucked out that one of my editors was an attorney who helped with the crime elements). Since I don't have a creative writing degree or training, professional editing has been invaluable for me. At the same time, I totally understand how costly it is for self-published writers to pay for editing themselves.
A great friend of mine and member of Goodreads Jo Murphey, who is an editor and corrects and refines her stuff to the utmost was blasted in a review about how bad one of her books looked because stuff was here there and everywhere. When she checked into it her book and the type of format downloaded was fine. From time to time in this flood of electronic information tranferring things get scrambled up on the recieving end. It just happens.I think if anybody ever downloads a book and it just looks awful as far as formating goes, we should maybe re-download it before hoping on the computer and trashing somebody over it.
In the case of my first novel it is just blantently bad English and grammar, and it was edited and I spent months making corrections to it.
It will have to be re-visited and re-edited and then re-downloaded to everywhere at some point in the future. We live and we learn.
Loving the discussion!
I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I noticed the same thing you did Thomas. Editing doesn't guarantee a book will be a hit, nor does poor editing guarantee the book will bomb. Amanda Hocking and Brian S Pratt are excellent examples.In fact, Pratt mentioned despite having readers complain about editing, he hadn't been sold on the need to hire an editor. At the time of the article, he was on schedule to earn over $100k for 2011. It wasn't a matter of not being able to afford an editor. Rather, did he really need to step up the standard with an editor to be successful?
I'm not mentioning those examples to encourage folks to write crap and put out their first draft. I'm just pointing out that so many people say you need this and that but reading success stories which break the rules tells me it's more than doing what everyone THINKS will work.
I keep hearing that most novels sell less than 200 copies. We all hope for the best, but I think it's important to prepare for the worst. What if you do only sale 200 copies? Is it worth paying $2k? $600 even for editing services?
Yes, put your best foot forward but keep in mind, you're also running a business.
If you're a self-editor (not that I recommend being the only one to read your work), there are some tools you can use to reduce some of the errors. My biggest tool is to use text-to-speech. It's amazing how much I catch just by hearing it spoken aloud. Some individuals read their work aloud, but I find another voice more effective. It's easy to speak what I expect to be there rather than what actually is there. Computers don't do that. If you have MS Word, you can create a macro to use the built in narrator voice.
Spell/grammar check.
Join a critique group. Keep in mind, the better your writing and self-editing is, the more you can get out of a critique group. Why? Taking care of the major editing issues forces the critter to search for items which stand out as odd instead of focusing on nonsensical writing.
Take time to learn basic spelling and grammar.
I know it's easy to get offended by what folks say about your work. :) I've ranted and raved about opinions I've received. But when you're done being crazy, take time to really listen to what people have said. I've learned quite a few trivial things by listening (administration versus ministrations, could care less versus couldn't care less, silly habits like using were instead of was in the wrong place, etc).
Above all, remember writing is a skill which should continue to improve. Each work you put out should be better than the last, include need skills you've learned since the last time. It's okay for your first works not to be perfect. It's okay to admit you're still learning.
When you look at your professional reputation, all of a sudden that couple grand doesn't look so bad. Once your book is out there, it's out there forever. When I read someone's book and if there are a lot of issues, it affects how I rate the book.
I also agree with Reena. I proof and copyedit books for others but I can't afford my own rates for my books. One of the tricks I use for myself is to take a few deep breaths and then detach myself from the writer-me. I approach it as though I were reviewing this idiot's book and that helps...right along with all the tips Reena suggests!
Hmm... I think that maybe looking for beta readers and using critique groups before you seek to look at the costs of using professional editors if you are looking at self-publishing on a small scale/small presses. Some of my best feedback, I found on the website Absolute Write - you can get editing advice from hobbyists, aspiring and published authors, who will tell you how they think you can make your book better. I got line edits for my first chapter off three different people, and it cost me nothing but the time it took to make a small presence on the forums so people knew me first.Just my opinion, hope it is helpful to some people :)
You need a minimum of 50 posts on the forums, and it's nice to try and help some people on there but they are all very helpful :)
Thanks everyone. This thread has been really helpful. I'm new to the industry and have been writing erotica and erotic romance for years, just as a hobby. I have an awesome imagination but my English is horrible so I know I can't pull off publishing a book without proper editing.I'm waiting for my cover art to start promoting the story I'm tweaking. Also looking for an editor. I've researched, and researched some more on Amazon. (Those reviewers bite, don't they?) and I really need to make sure I'm on point with the editing process. Zee, (nice to meet you) I will be in contact.
Best of luck with your tweeking and new story, Velvet. I wouldn't figure you would have any trouble finding people to read and critique your chosen genre!I think it's halarious that somebody would post a review about sloppy grammar or miss spelled words in an erotica peice, but then I know how reviews go and some are brutal.
Thomas wrote: "Best of luck with your tweeking and new story, Velvet. I wouldn't figure you would have any trouble finding people to read and critique your chosen genre!I think it's halarious that somebody w..."
Why do you think an erotic story is less deserving of good grammar or proper spelling?
Generally, when I write a review, I ignore the grammar, punctuation, spelling, and story development unless it seriously interferes with my reading. If it's bad enough that I start to cringe, I will ravage the story.
Once your book is out there, it's out there for good. It's your reputation on the line. You owe yourself the best press you can accomplish if only for that story's longevity and its effect on your rep.
I didn't mean to imply an erotic story was less deserving in any way. I was merely suggesting somebody might be reading it and be too ingrossed or busy to be bothered with critiqueing the grammar or punctuation. I totally agree that your book should be as good as you can make it, as I plan to revisit both my first novels with a fresh edit in the future. Niether of them are close to perfect. It was a poor attempt at humor from my messed up mind to think that somebody would read erotica and be turned off because of the mechanics of how it is written. It caught me funny is all.
Thomas wrote: "... too ingrossed or busy to be bothered with critiqueing the grammar ..."That's part of the problem with poor grammar, etc. If you can be jolted out of the story because of it, it's a disservice to the story no matter the genre.
Kathy wrote: "Thomas wrote: "... too ingrossed or busy to be bothered with critiqueing the grammar ..."That's part of the problem with poor grammar, etc. If you can be jolted out of the story because of it, it..."
That is a perfect way to put it. I'm glad someone figured out how to say it right. ;) I was struggling with that.
The quandry is if you don't have the skills to edit it yourself then you do the best you can. Both my first two books were sent out to editors and corrected and the corrections were made by myself. My second book was throughly gone over twice and corrections made each time, and then formatted and yet still getting blasted as if it was never edited at all. So what is an author to do? Stop writing? It is encouraging to me that the reviews range from crap because of editing or peoples narrow minded views of what could happen based upon their own experiences to Great - people keep saying they have never read any thing like what I wrote - that it was well written, exciting, and they can't wait for the next one.
So for me I will keep writing, so far the good to great reviews still out number the bad reviews. I am seeking more professional help in the editing department because I frankly do not understand the rules of English, grammar, and what not. I don't get hung up on errors in a story, I focus on the story.
It's like hand writing, I can read sloppy hand writing and even though I can't spell or write a proper sentence to save my life - I have excellent penmanship in cursive writing - but even that is dieing art form.
Love the comments Keep sharing people!!
My God Karen what is that thing on your head?Does it hurt?
I gotta say I've read a few books to review them for authors and i'd'a swore an editor had never been near them. My god, the misspellIngs, lack of attention to continuity or even physics, and the missing articles! I just wanna say--- please don't pay an editor who uses software to scan your manuscript. It works little better than if you simply turned on spell- and grammar-check. It does not check for historical accuracy, dialog, or logistics, etc.
Velvet wrote: "Thanks everyone. This thread has been really helpful. I'm new to the industry and have been writing erotica and erotic romance for years, just as a hobby. I have an awesome imagination but my Engli..."Hi Velvet - lovely to meet you! Lol, do get in touch. I look forward to helping you out :)
This is an interesting discussion, and one that pops up in many writer's groups (both self-published and traditionally published). As a reader, I understand that perfection is impossible. I'm willing to look over a typo or two, and grammar (beyond the basics) is sometimes a stylistic choice by the author (although in my experience, most grammatical errors are due to ignorance, not conscious thought), but an editor adds far more than spelling and grammar corrections. A good editor can peel away the fluff and the tarnish that tends to muddle a rough draft, and he or she can polish your voice. To me, that has no price. My question is, why would you ever consider putting out a book that's "good enough"? Why would you not put out your best work? One or two edits is still a rough draft. I've edited my manuscripts at least five times (each), been through two rounds of beta readers, edited each time, and I still have a draft. I'm querying traditional publishers, but considering self-publishing as well. The only way I'll do that is if I can hire an editor. If I can't afford it, I won't put anything out there. It's that simple. True, I can't sell something that isn't published, but I don't want to lose potential future readers because I was too impatient/lazy/cheap to do it right.
And no, I'm not implying anyone is impatient/lazy/cheap. These are the only excuses that I personally would have for publishing my books without a professional edit.
When I finished my first book I just wanted to see if I could self-publish, see what the feed back would be to see if I was any good what so ever as an aspiring author. There are many who write and self-publish who frankly (not intending to be mean) but will never make it as writers/authors. Yes, my first two books are not perfect, and I may lose and have probably lost some potential future readers, but whatever you write - not everybody is going to like it. On the other hand the feedback I have gotten from this last years experience has proven I do have some talent, yes it very definitely needs polished and edited better, but that can be fixed. Bad Writing, Bad stories, or crap you can polish until the cows come home and people will either buy it or they won't. More than likely they won't.
The BIG question seems to be whether Will what you write sell? For me the answer is YES! I am building a following of people who are desperately waiting for more, who paid for and read my poorly edited and terrible English and all.
Will my future books be better? Hell Yes, I will not be content writing poorly and hate getting land blasted in reviews for what I have published.
On the other hand one of Smashwords biggest selling authors is cranking out two to four books a year completely unedited, might even be completely rough drafts and is selling like hotcakes and building a following.
As with the decline of handwriting unfortunately English may be destined to go down the same road with the advent of self-publishing and a lack of decent editing skills. I am not content! I am working feverishly to increase my knowledge and skills with English, Editing and Proofing. I will find a way to pay for professional editing, but not at the expense of not feeding my children. I will not stop writing or quit publishing until such time that somebody decides my books are perfect. Even the BIG SIX are getting sloppy and rushing to market. The last two big named authors books I read had errors, granted not many, but I don't feel the need to land blast them in reviews or not buy future books of theirs.
My books need help, but they are selling and the good reviews still outnumber the bad reviews - those that do get my stories and don't get hung up on the English or mechanics LOVE my books and want more.
I have ten years worth of stories and ideas ready to put me in a striahgt jacket if I don't get them out of my head, I have enough material that even if I was writing full time with professional editing I could write for the next twenty years, I can't stop!
I am working at getting better and with saving the money from books sales I can afford professional help I need (Editing not therapy) to make them better.
Thomas wrote: "I have ten years worth of stories and ideas ready to put me in a striahgt jacket if I don't get them out of my head, ..."Oh my goodness that's exactly how I feel and why I write!!! I always say that I write because I like talking to the voices in my head. They are my imaginary friends. haha Good to know I'm not alone!
They seem to haunt my stray moments, daydreams of scenes and characters, thinking about sub plots and problems and decisions. Those moments before sleep when you try and clear your mind of the clutter of the day. Never a dull moment in my head. I think "If people only knew what I was thinking about." They are never close, I'm mired in a story of intense action and suspense while seemingly sitting and thinking.
I guess the question "to hire and editor or not" depends on your goal, or your overall purpose. My goal is not only to be read. It is to sell books, build a long-term, loyal reader base, and to be recognized as someone who views the craft of writing as more than a way to earn a paycheck or a pat on the back. The way to accomplish of all of that is producing quality. I don't want to lower the bar that I've set for myself just to see if people want to read my writing. I know they do. I think that by not using an editor, we're putting mediocre stuff out there, and in doing so we're only hurting ourselves in the end. Why read a typo-ridden, piece of shit storyline when you can turn on the television instead? We don't just lose our individual readers when we sacrifice quality. I've known lots of people who don't read a lot anymore because they're sick of being disappointed. And I've got enough material to write for decades as well. I'll keep writing as long as the inspiration is there. That doesn't mean I'll publish it right away though. I don't plan to publish anything that hasn't had a professional polish. Will it be perfect? Nothing about writing is perfect. But it will be better than what my best effort has produced. Do I judge an author who chooses not to use an editor? Only if I've paid money to read their book.
Renee Said "Why read a typo-ridden, piece of shit storyline when you can turn on the television instead? We don't just lose our individual readers when we sacrifice quality. I've known lots of people who don't read a lot anymore because they're sick of being disappointed."I agree and disagree!
What if you didn't know people wanted to read your stuff? You had never written or published anything! How would you know what people thought? When is it good enough?
There is a difference between a typo-ridden, piece of shit storyline AND a typo ridden piece of shit that has a Great Stroy trapped inside. Not everybody gets hung up on the English and Mechanics - Obviously!
Some Do, I do but am still blinded by ignorance to see them, I need better Editing! Will I hold up my writing while I try and edit better, proof more, Yes because I do care! Will I wait years? NO!
Because ready or not, for good or bad the stuff is selling!
I do have plans to re-visit earlier works once I have attained funds to attain better editing to find the mistakes and correct them.
It might be nice if those that get SO OFFENDED by bad grammer and lack of English skills to correct a piece of work or offer to help authors rather than just tear them a new one at every turn.
My typo ridden pieces of shit are going to pay to have themselves and future works polished.
Unfortunately I think the majority of other aspiring authors do not agree and the over curve will go down because people are buying the crap with good stories.
As far as geeting let down by authors, That is one of the main reasons I started writing, soft lame ass stories that never went far enough or to their potential in my opinion. So I started writing the books I wanted to read. There seems to be a following for what I am writing bad English and all.
Thomas wrote: "Not everybody gets hung up on the English and Mechanics - Obviously! "Those of us who have made our living with grammar and mechanics (remember, I was once a newspaper editor) most assuredly do. A friend of mine proofreads *menus* obsessively because they are almost always error-ridden.
Here's the thing. If an author doesn't know the difference between "broach" and "brooch," or an "Aryan sweater" and an "Arran sweater" (I have run across both of these, and the errors were repeated too often to just be a typo), it's going to make me look askance at both the author and the editor.
As for this: "It might be nice if those that get SO OFFENDED by bad grammer and lack of English skills to correct a piece of work or offer to help authors rather than just tear them a new one at every turn"? Well, you said yourself that you won't get professional editing if it takes food off your kids' table. Professional editors use those skills to *put* food on the table. This is not the first time I've seen someone opine that professional services should be available free of charge. I *always* share alternatives for those who may not be able to afford my services, but I am just not willing to spend 15-20 hours of time when I could be writing (or taking a paying job) to do extensive line edits for someone who just doesn't want to pay for my skills.
Here's the thing: when it comes to professional services, you can get them cheap, fast or good -- but not all three. If you want them cheap and good, it's going to take time. If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good. If you want it fast and good, it's not going to be cheap.
I am sorry; I just couldn't let that go by.
Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Elements of Style (other topics)Complete Plain Words (other topics)
The biggest complaint being leveled at Independent Authors is the lack of professional editing. Yet most people can't afford professional editing that ranges from two to five dollars per page for editing. One of Smashwords biggest selling authors is cranking out three or more books a year with little to no editing, and his books are obviously selling great. The last two books I have read by Big Named Very Professional Authors I still found miss spelled and or typo's within the printed work from major publishers.
How important is it really to the readers that the books be as good as they can possibly be?
Should I take the time, possibly months and have my early, already E-published books RE-EDITED?
Or should I just concentrate on making my future books as good as they can be?
What are your thoughts?