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Freedom From Fear- David M. Kennedy- January 2012
Chapter 7Page 216
Re: Reverend Charles Coughlin
I own, but have not yet read,
~~Voices of Protest: Huey Long, Father Coughlin & the Great Depression~~~Alan BrinkleyThe study of two demagogues, whose vast popularity explains much about Depression-era America.
Amazon link
http://www.amazon.com/Voices-Protest-...
Julie wrote: "Chapter 7 you mean? :-)"-----------
Thanks ! I fixed it. I don't know where my brain is sometimes.
I am back home. I have some serious catching up to do but I will do it. Did you read chapter 8 yet?
Sorry, Julie, I have not. I have to finish The Book Thief for my f2f group, but once I am done with that I will read chapter 8. Truth be told, I've been watching too much TV. And now I am hooked again on the NY Knicks basketball. Yes, I have Jeremy Lin fever. :) He is a new player on the team with such a nice back story. He has become a superstar overnight. He played for Harvard, not a basketball college as you might guess, and was rejected by a few pro teams and traded finally landed on the Knicks as a fill in for injured players. He was thought to be only a temporary fill in. Now his jersey is the top selling shirt. :) I love these type of stories.
How was your trip ?
Well I haven't even read chapter 7 yet, so if you want to skip this week and move chapter 8 to next week, that is fine with me.My vacation was good....and busy. But now I am tired! :-)
Either way is fine with me. We will catch up with each other. I'll just put the chapter I am discussing at the top of my post.Glad to hear you had a good time on your vacation. Though sometimes you come back so worn out you need a vacation from your vacation ! :)
Alias, DH tells me Lin was here in Dallas for awhile. Now the Dallas team is all "oh, we knew he was good", etc. Really? Then why release him (or whatever it's called)? They are just trying to save face, no doubt.
Deb, as a young kid, I loved to watch basketball. I remember crying when they lost to the Celtics in the playoffs. However, I haven't watched them in decades. All the Lin talk got me to tune in again. In interviews he seems like such a nice person you just can't help cheering him on.
Chapter 8P 222 regarding the discussion of the Scottsboro boys and Langston Hughes.
I think Kennedy fails to mention why some blacks turned to the communist party. It had a platform of equality for all. I recall reading this is Black Boy~Richard Wright
Speaking of the Scottsboro Boys, I thought there was a book in the last few years that I wanted to read. I'll have to look over my To Read notebook.
Have you read any books on the Scottsboro Boys that you would recommend?
P 231
Kennedy and Roosevelt: The Uneasy Alliance~Michael R. Beschloss
The author mentions this book. It sounded like something I would be interested in. But it's out of print. :(
I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for it in used book stores.
P 232
I wasn't familiar with the World Court in the Hague.
I see from Wiki, we are now members. That is if this is the same thing that is referenced in the book. I Kennedy could have been clearer on this.
Are you familiar with what he discusses on page 232?
Wiki
"The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de Justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to provide advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internat...
Teddy Roosevelt was involved with it.
"In 1902 President Roosevelt took the initiative in opening the international Court of Arbitration at The Hague, which, though founded in 1899,"
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prize...
This Wiki article explains it best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Co...
Thanks for the info on the International Court. I thought they had a criminal branch but apparently not. Instead, it seems, the UN sets up a criminal tribunal for a country when crimes of genocide are evident, such as Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. (That's the way they titled it, International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia.)Alias, this is a book i read about a few years ago & added to my TBR. Scottsboro: A Tragedy of the American South by Dan T. Carter. The reason i added it, as opposed to others, is that Carter reissued the book, updating with material & info he didn't have in his original 1970 book. I don't know if this is the one you wanted or not. There was an Oscar nominated documentary on the subject, too. http://www.amazon.com/American-Experi...
Thanks for the comments on the International Court in the Hague, Deb. I guess the Nuremberg Trials, which occurred after the point in the book now under discussion, became the forerunner for the Hague.
Thanks for the title of the book. I'll put it on my list. I'll have to see if my library has the documentary. I like to pair up books with documentaries.
Gah! Ok I am sitting down to read chapter 7 after I eat lunch. :-)
Ch 7It talks about the thistle blowing across the prairies. I am wondering if that is the same thing as tumbleweed or different?
I added Tobacco Road to my list also. I have already been planning on reading The Worst Hard Time. What did you think of it Alias? The Warmth of Other Suns ( which I am still in the middle of) has some descriptions of how sharecroppers got paid...or didn't.
Chapter 7We read The Worst Hard Time as a group read. You can still read our posts. It was an interesting book.
I think it was in that book were they mentioned the animals eating the thistle. Yes, I can see from Wiki that what I read about was Russian Thistle. Thought Wiki says it useful for livestock I thought I read it messes with their digestion. However, since I've lived in the city all my life, and have never seen tumbleweed in person, I'll have to give way to others who know more about it.
Wiki:
A tumbleweed is the above-ground part of a plant that, once mature and dry, disengages from the root and tumbles away in the wind. Usually, the tumbleweed is the entire plant apart from the roots, but in a few species it is a flower cluster.
Although the number of species with the tumbleweed habit is small, quite a number of these species are common agricultural weeds.
Salsola tragus (Russian thistle) is an annual plant that breaks off at the stem base, forming a tumbleweed that disperses its seeds as it rolls on top of the ground. It seems to have been imported into South Dakota from Russia in 1870 or 1874 in shipments of flaxseed. It has become a noxious weed that has spread throughout North America to inhabit suitable habitats which include areas with disturbed soils like roadsides, cultivated fields and eroded slopes, and in natural habitats that have sparse vegetation like coastal and riparian sands, semi-deserts and deserts. Salsola tragus is the correct name for the narrow-leaved, weedy representative of the S. kali aggregate found widely over North America. It is an extremely variable species with many races which vary in distinctness, some of these varieties in the past have been divided into subspecies or even separate species. Though it is a noxious weed, Salsola tragus is useful on arid rangelands as forage for livestock.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbleweed
I've purchased The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration, but who knows when I'll finally get to it.
Ok, so thistle is a specific plant and tumbleweed is a general term for plants that do that. Makes sense.
Alias Reader wrote: "Thanks for the comments on the International Court in the Hague, Deb. I guess the Nuremberg Trials, which occurred after the point in the book now under discussion, became the forerunner for the ..."Re International Court of Justice-- My nephew took an internship there during law school because he was specializing in international law. Now he's an international lawyer in Hong Kong.
Chapter 9P 256
These Are Our Lives~Federal Writers' ProjectUnfortunately, this one is out of print. It really is a shame that books like this go out of print. Amazon does have some for sale. I don't usually buy used books over the internet, but I might have to make an exception for this one.
P 259 Jane Addams
I own, but havne't read yet
The Jane Addams Reader~~Jean Bethke ElshtainP 259
Has anyone read
Triangle: The Fire That Changed America~David von DrehleP 276 "A traitor to his class"
There is a recent book that took this phrase as its title.
Traitor to His Class: The Privileged Life and Radical Presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt~H.W. Brands
Chapter 9Pages 280-281
"Governments can err, presidents do make mistakes, but the immortal Dante tells us that Divine justice weighs the sins of the cold-blooded and the sins of the warm-hearted on different scales.
Better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference.
There is a mysterious cycle in human events. To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected. This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny."
I just love it ! I need to make a copy of this quote for my jnl.
For full text
http://www.austincc.edu/lpatrick/his2...
Shomeret, how neat for your nephew. It seems to me a person would learn much there, although all the laws would be daunting. Guess that's why i didn't go to law school, eh?Re. tumbleweeds. My first encounter with them was when we lived in the OK panhandle. I was driving home from Kansas when the wind picked up. Dust blew across the road, in the midst was what i thought were small animals. As we got closer i saw they were tumbleweeds. As it was quite rural there, i felt the way i imagine cowpokes must have felt seeing them--"get outta my way!" ;-)
Re. the federal writer's projects from the '30s. Last weekend i saw a piece on Book TV about a Virginia bookstore which is in an old Victorian home. In the process i learned again about books those writer's created for each state. (I also learned about a neat series on U.S. rivers.) I looked them up online & couldn't find any under $20, most were well over $40. Now i'll keep my eyes open elsewhere. They all sound good & right up my historianish alley. (Yes, i do believe i coined that word, historianish.)
deb, thanking Alias for the good quote, too
Shomeret wrote: My nephew took an internship there during law school because he was specializing in international law. Now he's an international lawyer in Hong Kong."---------
I'm glad Deb responded to your post. Sometimes when I am posting at the same time as another person, I don't see their post.
That really sounds like a interesting job, Shomeret. You nephew must be one smart cookie.
Madrano wrote: Virginia bookstore which is in an old Victorian home----------
Oh, that sounds like something I would have loved to have seen. I love old Victorian houses.
It really is amazing when one reads about all the amazing projects that were done. Many of the schools, bridges etc. that still are in use today. And to think of the art that was created!
This link shows you the art work that is still around today by each state !
http://www.wpamurals.com/
I had no idea so much still existed. When we were in Salinas, CA, i saw the ones at the post office. Outstanding, old fashioned, yet a good glance at the time & pride of the town. This link is a keeper for travel, imo.And the buildings! The WPA is responsible for the impressive Timberline Lodge at Mt. Hood in Oregon. http://www.timberlinelodge.com/ The innards are even better--all woodsy. Sample: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Int...
I am grateful that the government used the funds for these projects. While i hope we never find the need again, i am glad thoughtful minds prevailed in this instance. Another good legacy from earlier generations.
deb
How weird!Ch. 9, p. 276
"The final law imposed a tax of 79 percent on incomes over $5 million, a rate that appeared to be downright confiscatory but in fact covered precisely one individual -- John D. Rockefeller".
Julie wrote: "How weird!Ch. 9, p. 276
"The final law imposed a tax of 79 percent on incomes over $5 million, a rate that appeared to be downright confiscatory but in fact covered precisely one individual -- Joh..."
-------------
How times have changed. Only one person had over 5 million. Today we have Billionaires !
Chapter 10 STRIKE !This chapter on unions made me think of movies about unions.
F.I.S.T- Staring Stallone was pretty good.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077531/
Norma Rae - was very good. Staring Sally Fields
http://www.imdb.com/find?q=norma+raey...
Our Daily Bread- King Vidor -Kennedy mentioned this on page 304. I never heard of it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0025610/
Do you know any others?
Chapter 10 STRIKE !Some of the books mentioned in this chapter
P303
Waiting for Nothing and Other Writings~Tom Kromer
Hungry Men~Edward Anderson
Studs Lonigan: A Trilogy~James T. Farrell
Tobacco Road~Erskine Caldwell
Tortilla Flat~John Steinbeck
In Dubious Battle~John Steinbeck
Waiting for Lefty and Other Plays~Clifford Odets
Alias Reader wrote: "Chapter 10 STRIKE !This chapter on unions made me think of movies about unions...."
I learned quite a bit about unions & the bosses from
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047296/ Meanwhile, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032551/ has labor tones late in the epic but is still worth watching for Fonda & Darwell alone.
deb
Deb you are right. How could I forget the classicOn the Waterfront.
Ah Unions next. This will be interesting since my current view on them today is not always favorable. :-)
chapter 10Keep in mind the era we are reading about. Dangerous working conditions, long hours, poor pay, etc. were the norm. And then there was child labor.
P320
Unions made a difference. In organized industries, wages rose to a greater degree than unorganized labor.
Unions insistence on seniority principle rendered employment more predictable. It protected older workers. Union negotiated grievance procedures check the petty tyranny of foremen and supervisors.
Especially for manufacturing workers, the conditions of life and work were markedly better at the decade's end than its beginning, and the improvement was due in no small measure to the success of the union movement.
A book that brought to light the horrendous employment conditions around 1905 was:
The Jungle~Upton SinclairP321
For the 14 million women workers, mostly in the largely unorganized service sector, for the many millions of agricultural laborers, and for almost all workers of whatever description in the South, comparable benefits would a long time coming.
Speaking of women, Triangle is a book that is on my TBR list.
Triangle: The Fire That Changed America~David von Drehle
I know. That's why I said "my current view on them today".My husband belongs to one now and they don't seem to care about an individual's performance and letting an employer reward those who do the best work or run their business so that each employee's skills are best used. Seniority is all that matters. The employees actually make the schedule for who works when with more senior people getting first choice each week, because the boss making the schedule himself is not "union friendly" (even if he still follows their complicated rules about number of hours per week for each type of employee).
I understand. I just don't want this thread to get sidetracked or hijacked from the book we are reading.
It's hard to talk about a history book that is very political and not compare it to today but I agree. :-)
Chapter 11- The ordeal of Franklin RooseveltI think this chapter explains why the Great Depression lasted so long. The Supreme Ct. shot FDR's programs down. The legislature did the same. And in 1937 started once again to clamor about the deficit once the economy started to pick up. A fatal mistake as Keynes would teach us. A lesson perhaps still not learned. (page 340).
It was only when we went full throttle and tossed the budget aside and spent with WWII that we got out of the eco. problems. p358,360.
P 332 "Gallup poll deemed the administration too friendly to labor. "
This reminded me of the book, What's the Matter With Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America~Thomas Frank
For some odd reason people go against their own self interest.
Julie wrote: "I'm still a week behind :-("-----------
Don't worry about it. You'll get to it when you get to it. I'll clearly mark my posts so you with chapter and page #'s. I read chap 11 because I have about 8 books that I need to start. Between this book and the Einstein Buddy read it's not easy for me to stay on track.
8? Yikes. I thought I had too much to read. :-)
Chapter 11P342 Lynching -"more than 100 since 1930"
I still can not fathom the depth of hatred they must have had in their hearts to oppose the anti-lynching bill. What a disgrace.
P343 FDR and his weak support of the anti-lynching bill.
Reading this section reminded me so much of Lincoln and his predicament. Uppermost for Lincoln was to keep the union together. So his stand on slavery wasn't as strong as we would have wanted.
FDR had to save American democracy and not risk a even greater Great Depression, so he didn't champion the anti-lynching bill for fear the South would further block his efforts to revive the economy.
Whew. Done with Chapter 10. Part of it was rather boring so I wasn't feeling motivated but it got more interesting when they started describing the sit down. I added Triangle to my to-read list also.I think I should have started a list of acronyms and what they stand for. There are so many in this book!
Julie wrote: I think I should have started a list of acronyms and what they stand for. There are so many in this book! ------------
I wouldn't worry about it. Funny you should bring it up, there is a book about all the acronyms.
FDR's Alphabet Soup: New Deal America 1932-1939~~Tonya Bolden
The name of that book made me laugh out loud!
Chapter 12This chapter was a fairly quick read as he was a recap of the Great Depression before the author moves on to WWII.
I enjoyed the photographs very much.
P372
The Robinson-Patman Act of 1936
I was surprised to see, from what I can gather on the net, that this Act is still on the books. I wonder how Walmart and other huge mega box stores get around it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson...
Chapter 13- The Gathering StormThe Gathering Storm is the title of first book in the 6 volume set on WW II by Winston Churchill.
The Gathering Storm~Winston S. Churchill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seco...
There are a ton of books mentioned in this chapter. (I'm still reading it) Here is a partial list of the books listed that I've come across so far (up to page 388)
If anyone has read any of these books and would like to comment, please feel free to do so.
The Innocents Abroad~Mark Twain
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court~Mark Twain
The Great Gatsby~F. Scott Fitzgerald
The Enormous Room~E.E. Cummings
Three Soldiers~John Dos Passos
A Farewell to Arms~Ernest Hemingway
All Quiet on the Western Front~Erich Maria Remarque
The Genesis of the World War, an Introduction to the Problem of War Guilt~Harry Elmer Barnes
Why We Fought~Keith L. Nelson Actually Nelson is the editor Grattan is the author
Road To War: America 1914 - 1917~Walter Millis
America Goes to War~Charles Callan Tansill
The Merchants of Death~H.C. Engelbrecht
Chapter 13- Gathering StormThis is the first I've heard of the Nye Committee.
The Nye Committee, officially known as the Special Committee on Investigation of the Munitions Industry, was a committee of the United States Senate which studied the causes of United States' involvement in World War I. It was a significant factor in heightening public and political support for neutrality in the early stages of World War II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Comm...
I had to read All Quiet on the Western Front twice in high school...once for English class and once for history class. I remember that I liked it a lot even though I thought I would hate it. I want to read it again. I had to read The Great Gatsby too and all I remember was that I hated it. I was going to get caught up on reading today but so far got distracted by putting more music on my iPod!
Julie wrote: "I had to read All Quiet on the Western Front twice in high school...once for English class and once for history class. I remember that I liked it a lot even though I thought I would hate it. I want..."-----------
I've only read three on the list.
A Farewell to Arms~Ernest Hemingway
- Thought it was excellent.
All Quiet on the Western Front~Erich Maria Remarque
I read it a few years ago. Thought it was good.
The Great Gatsby~F. Scott Fitzgerald
Read it in high school and hated it.
Read it again a few years ago and loved it.
I also own the 6 volume set by Churchill, but I've not read it yet.
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Page 200
"Farmers were, after all, still some 30% of the work force."
I found this stats online
"there are now nearly five million fewer farms in the U.S. than there were in the 1930's.Of the two million remaining farms, only 565,000 are family operations."
http://www.sustainabletable.org/issue...
(in 2011) "Although farm employment accounts for less than 1 percent of all jobs in the United States"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/bus...