what is the best order to read the Dune books in?

[Dave]

Nathan, I appreciate your passion but you use such loaded words. You are overwrought; we are simply talking about a matter of taste. This conversation has nothing to do with fear as much as appreciation of a particular writing style. I prefer James Lee Burke to say Don Winslow. or T. Jefferson Parker. All are great writers with different styles. You are mistaking choice for discrimination. Simply put I prefer Frank to Kevin and Brian as a writer. Perhaps you could get your Still Suited self out of the sand and visit Water World for a little perspective. Don't forget we all have a love of books and good story telling in common.

[Dave]

Feliks, well said!

[Matthew]

Nathan wrote: "You obviously like to use big words to impress people... If you followed the whole thread I said I really like both even though they are different. I never said you should read all of them only you..."

I sure did! I read some of the House series and thought they were passable, but the Legends of Dune series was some of the worst writing I have ever read. Their depiction of of the Butlerian Jihad was like something out of pulp sci-fi, evil killer robots, cymecks and what not. The fact that they chose to end the series by referring back to that while at the same time insisting the book was based on Herbert's notes was the most trite and exploitative things I ever saw.

And having talked to KJA myself, I know that they did not base this ending on anything Frank wrote. They've not so much continued the series as hijacked it. Just my opinion, of course, though it is based in a few confirmed facts. But I would personally recommend that people willing to dip into the continuation of the series stick to the House books and not venture further.

[Feliks]

Nathan wrote: "You obviously like to use big words to impress people... "

False. I never try to impress people on the internet.

[Dave]

Nathan, make an argument if you like but making personal attacks like that on Feliks just shows weakness and an inability to debate effectively.

[Matthew]

Nathan wrote: "I love the comments that say only read the first three Dune books, or only the Frank books, because all the others are not as good.... kind of comments. That is like saying only read Dante's The Di..."

Actually, its nothing like saying that. It's like saying you should only read Dante and not the "fan fiction" written by others using his material, or should only appreciate art or music made by Leonardo's or Beethoven's and not their imitators. Not everyone thinks they are all good in their own right, and would prefer to stick to the original genius rather than those who use the name and the franchise and try to substitute their own material in.

[Mark]

Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books and he left us with the greatest cliffhanger in scifi literature,
His sons greates misdeed is that when writing the conclusion in his fathers name with his notes it totaly shamed his fathers writing.

As for the other books in the current Dune-verse there are some good ones and some shady ones. But like SW it is always nice to return to the worlds of Dune. I would not mind having some other great writers having a go.
And as for the Herbert-gestapo, you are wrong in condemning the writers for continueing because it does not suit you. The books sell otherwise there would not be so many by now. You are well entitled for stating that FH 6 Dune books are better than most of the non-FH books. But that is not a real discussion I believ.

[Feliks]

Mark wrote: " The books sell otherwise there would not be so many by now...."

Bad metric, there. :|

I say this: a good writer can come along, continue a project of an earlier writer and do it justice. There's certainly successful examples of this.

Jean Rhys wrote a continuation of 'Jane Eyre' called, 'The Wide Sargasso Sea' and its a very fine book in its own right.

Philip Jose Farmer borrowed material from Kurt Vonnegut to craft his, 'Venus on the Half-Shell'.

But let us justifiably condemn the occasion when lesser writers make similar attempts and fail. We're not saying fan fiction *never* works; just that it didn't work out well *this time*.

[Matthew]

Mark wrote: "Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books and he left us with the greatest cliffhanger in scifi literature,
His sons greates misdeed is that when writing the conclusion in his fathers name with his notes ..."

"Herbert-gestapo"? That sounds hauntingly like "Talifan", a term Kevin J Anderson uses himself to describe his critics and detractors. I find it odd you'd say this, considering you seem to be o the same mind as these goose-stepping fans as far as saying that Brian Herbert's and KJA's ending was a shame to Frank's writing.

And keep in mind there's a big difference between people who would condemn what fan-fic writers do with a franchise and condemning the fact that they are continuing it in the first place. Though I do know those people exist, and they can be taxing for sure!

[Mark]

Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books and he left us with the greatest cliffhanger in scifi literature,
His sons greates misdeed is that when writing the conclusion in his fathers name wi..."

I do not consider the current writers as fan-fic writers.
I concede that some of their efforts were less than worthy and indeed those two books that finish of FH 2nd trilogy spring to mind.
But their writing was more hit than miss for me, and the current series started well enough for me to make sure that I will read the next book upon release.

And I do see why KJA would call his critics names as even I have seen the vile and agressive posture some so-called defenders of FH heritage have taken. If you disagree ignore it and let other people have their fun. But everytime somebody says soemthing positive about some of the new books you get personal messages and critism of a rather disgusting nature and level. (I talk out of experience here).

[Matthew]

Mark wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books and he left us with the greatest cliffhanger in scifi literature,
His sons greates misdeed is that when writing the conclusion in his..."

That's fandom for you! I know of no other franchise that gets people as riled about "artistic integrity" and "violating the spirit of the original material", save Star Wars. I will assume you know exactly what I'm talking about...

[Feliks]

Mark wrote: "But everytime somebody says soemthing positive about some of the new books you get personal messages and critism of a rather disgusting nature and level. (I talk out of experience here)...."

I agree you ought not be subject to calumny, abuse, spleen, invective, harangue, contumely, jaundice, excoriation, or spittle. That's not right nor proper.

But on the other hand, when you happen to praise a product and it just so happens that the majority of other people dislike that same product; you can't blame them for speaking up. You may feel as if you're getting 'drowned out' but that's not anyone's deliberate intent. Just because they're part of a majority doesn't mean they're trying to stamp you out or shout you down. Its simply the way that opinions sometimes are divided in a public and open forum.

[Mark]

Well it is more that you find that it most often the same people that are offensive, and I do understand KJA easily and I have not written a word of the extended Dune-verse. Even the fact that I like indeed FH books better but am entertained by the new ones seems to anger some people. And while I tend to write only that content that I would say in your face as well I have noticed that among the Herbert-gestapo as I call them there is no limitation on what they think they can say or pressure people.
That is why I will speak up for the new DUNE series because I feel that a lot of people get enjoyment out of it and they get more often than not a lot of unwanted critism simply for enjoying more.

[Mark]

Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books and he left us with the greatest cliffhanger in scifi literature,
His sons greates misdeed is that when writing the conc..."

try it with Doctor Who fans they are worse than anybody, but I have yet to get a response that is even patronizing they are generally a friendly bunch even if they get somewhat tense if you mess with their franchise.

[Rod]

NibbledToDeathByCats wrote: "Here is my own nominal reading order. I'm trying it as an experiment, following chronological order in blocks starting from Dune: 'present', 'immediate past', 'remote past', 'future'.

present:
-..."

Can I ask where the short stories are found>

[Firstname]

Mark wrote: "But everytime somebody says soemthing positive about some of the new books you get personal messages and critism of a rather disgusting nature and level."

This. The default position is apparently "only read the first one" and if you have a different opinion, you become the subject of attack commentary by a fairly large number of other users. It's like chumming the water and going for a swim. It's kinda sad, really.

[Matthew]

Mark wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books and he left us with the greatest cliffhanger in scifi literature,
His sons greates misdeed is that when ..."

So I've been told twice now. Perhaps this is why I can't get into that franchise. Not only is it really long running, hence making it hard to jump on, but the passion is kind of scary!

[S]

Brian's books are fun in a comic-book sort of way , certainly more than Heretics and Chapterhouse, which are unreadable. But yes, the original DUNE is the only must-read.

[Firstname]

Matthew wrote: "but the passion is kind of scary! "

And that's the real problem with overzealous fanbois. They turn people off. "Hey I really liked the first one but not the rest" is less off-putting than OMGOMGOMG DON'T EVER READ PAST BOOK ONE OR YOU'LL NEVER GET TO PLAY WITH MY LIMITED EDITION 'USUL' ACTION FIGURE WITH THE REMOVABLE STILLSUIT!

Tragically the people who didn't like the other books just can't stand the idea that anyone might like something different than they do.

[Rod]

I adore the initial FH 6. However BH hasn't gotten the spark that his father had, I'm still reading them however the Jihad saga want overly entertaining but I made my way through them. Hunters has started okay though it's still not FH standard.

[Matthew]

Rod wrote: "I adore the initial FH 6. However BH hasn't gotten the spark that his father had, I'm still reading them however the Jihad saga want overly entertaining but I made my way through them. Hunters has..."

Started? Meaning you haven't finished it yet? Oh dear, I would be interested in your interpretation of the ending. Since I don't want to spoil it, I shall say no more...

[Joaobispo]

I've started reading the Dune series last year, started with Dune and currently I'm on Heretics of Dune. Very quickly, so far:

- Dune: Very nice, got me interested
- Dune Messiah: Boring for the most part
- Children of Dune: Enjoyed it very much
- God Emperor of Dune: Also loved it
- Heretics of Dune: At about 80%, really enjoying it

I agree that at God Emperor of Dune things get really weird, but I really did like that direction. But I can see how that can put off a lot of people.

[Jonesmikey]

I love all six by Frank Herbert, I've read them five times now. My favorites are God Emperor and Heretics. Of course the original is great too. I think those should be read on their own first and that Brian Herbert's expanded universe should be read as a different story-line entirely.

[Alex]

I just finished Chapterhouse and ended up checking out this topic to see what people had to say about the BH books but in the end I'll likely just try one and see how I like it. I figure I can give it a few pages to see if it's satisfactory.
As far as the whole debate over which books are worthy is concerned, it would be nice if people accessorized their strong opinions with vague/not spoilery commentary on what caused their opinion in the first place.
1&2 character development and universe detail/immersion, 3&4 universe plot advancement with a side of compelling characters, and 5&6 universe detail/depth to add to the interest sparked by previous books. Last two books to me felt more like spice adding to the universe than actual storylines. That's my vague stance on them though, that said I enjoyed all six originals so far, we'll see about the others. I need more data before I can make a prime projection on wether I'll like them :p

[Ed]

My opinion?

Read Dune, and then stop.

[Leor]

from Dune up to god-emperor worth reading, the rest not so much...

[Mark]

If you want to read more than Franks brilliant 6 books on Dune than continue with the House of ..... Trilogy by his son Brian. They belong easily to the best he did follow his dad with.

Find out for yourself if you want to continue in the Duniverse by Brian, the fanatics will state you should not based upon some ranting, on average. See if you enjoy the newer work for yourself. And then make up your mind.

As I said I found the House trilogy very enjoyable.

[Mark]

Alberto wrote: "There is only one correct order for reading the Dune books.


1) Dune by Frank Herbert
2)

That is all.

/thread"

Were not the first three books as we know them now originally meant as one volume/book?

For me the first three books were the same story.

[Matthew]

Mark wrote: "Alberto wrote: "There is only one correct order for reading the Dune books.


1) Dune by Frank Herbert
2)

That is all.

/thread"

Were not the first three books as we know them now originally mea..."

Not exactly, but Frank did say that the there were elements in book II and III that were meant for the original story. It was only due to suggestions from his editor and the constraints of storytelling that he chose to separate them into three books. But I agree, the first three books feel like the same story, whereas everything after feel like afterthoughts and sequels.

[Mark]

Matthew wrote: "Mark wrote: "Alberto wrote: "There is only one correct order for reading the Dune books.


1) Dune by Frank Herbert
2)

That is all.

/thread"

Were not the first three books as we know them now o..."

That said I find the God emperor a brilliant sequel that answers my questions about Leto's ultimate fate.

And I love the secone trilogy about the sisterhood and the inhertance of Leto a lot, sadly enough Frank left one heck of a cliffhanger.

For me all of his books on Dune are excellent.

[[deleted user]]

Hamish wrote: "Dune then Dune Messiah

If you go past those 2 the quality really starts to drop off."

There's no point in reading Dune Messiah without going for God Emperor. Then you also have to read Children of Dune.

[Colin]

My suggestion is simply to read Dune first. For me this created the curiosity to really enjoy the prequels of House Atreides, Harkonnen and Corrino. After that I suggest the Butlarian Jihad and other prequels.

Havent yet read the others.

Something else that helped me a lot with Dune was the David Lynch movie. The casting was very good, especially the Baron, but make sure you get the 3h extended "Alan Smithee" directed one. For those who don't know, Lynch was so upset about the chopped up 84 movie release, that was tricky to follow, that he didnt want to be associated with other releases, hence the use of Smithee as director's name. Anyway it helped me to get through the slog of the first few pages of Dune.

[Johnny]

I just finished reading Dune, and am almost done with Paul of Dune. I can only assume so many people grew up with dune and only read dune and base all works in comparison to Dune.

I like Dune, it's not great.. but it was fun to read. With Paul of Dune, I can kinda see why people dislike it, but it's not terrible, even remotely.

The only thing I seem to be missing between the two is how often Paul talks, in the original, he talks so much (especially about the Jihad) that I almost wanted to skim through the lines of how beautiful Chani was, or how fierce and dry Arrakis is.

I've not grew up with Dune, I tried reading it when I was a teenager and couldn't stand how it dragged.. now that I am almost 30, I can enjoy it for what it is.. although I still feel like it drags at times, Paul of Dune has similar issues too.

[Peter]

Lots of complaints, lots of anger. Oodles of anger actually, but very few actual pieces of advice. David in post #6 has it right, in my opinion that is the best order in which to fully understand the scope and magnitude of the tale which is being woven.

Read the initial 6 books if you'd like to follow publishing dates, and if the final conversation between the farmers in the Chapter House: Dune doesn't give you an "AHAH!" moment - You may want to avoid the others.

Also - If you dislike the analysis of historical inaccuracy and the foibles of language, memory, history, religion, etc; you should probably just stick to Dune.

That's my 2 cents, and thanks to all for a lively thread to read.

[[deleted user]]

Peter wrote: "and if the final conversation between the farmers in the Chapter House: Dune doesn't give you an "AHAH!" moment - You may want to avoid the others."
Wooha, spot on. What an insight!! I didn't get that "AHAH!" moment, and I have avoided the others!

[Nick]

Read Dune + The original frank herbert books first. Reading any of the other stuff will sour your experience w/ them.

[S]

Peter wrote: "Lots of complaints, lots of anger. Oodles of anger actually, but very few actual pieces of advice. David in post #6 has it right, in my opinion that is the best order in which to fully understand t..."
What is the AHA moment? SPOILER-In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were, but I was under the impression that Chapterhouse Dune ends unresolved.

[Peter]

That entirely depends how you interpret the writings and what your expectations are. I can't spoil anything, not my style. Look at the hints Leto II gives in God Emperor. The kwisatz haderach produced by BG wasn't the only one produced. Nor were the BG the only faction striving for it.

I've given enough away.

Email me if you'd like a private conversion, I dislike ruining others readings.

Insomniaklad@gmail.com

[Jonesmikey]

S wrote: "What is the AHA moment? SPOILER-In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were, but I was under the impression that Chapterhouse Dune ends unresolved. "

Sorry, I don't view Brian Herbert's works as canon.

[S]

Jonesmikey wrote: "S wrote: "What is the AHA moment? SPOILER-In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were, but I was under the impression that Chapterhouse Dune ends unresolved. "

Sorr..."
Good point.

[Kathy]

I feel the need for a re-read.
I like to read them in published order.
From to !!

[Ampoliros]

To all the people saying just read the first one, or the first two, I really think God Emperor needs to be read to get the most out of the cycle. Heretics and Chapterhouse...you need to LOVE the series to read those.

As for the new books...I seriously do not understand how people can read those and like them. They get just about everything wrong. And not just accidentally wrong. Its wrong because KJA just doesn't care to do any research while he dictates into a microphone and has someone else transcribe it. If Brian still has anything to do with the writing at all other than putting his name on the cover and collecting a check, its minimal. You can practically turn to ANY page in one of the new books and find a mistake...often within their own continuity.

I'm fine with some kinds of media that require you to turn your mind off, but we're talking about Dune here, the monument of speculative fiction being handed over to a philistine pulp hack. The guy who has Paul Muad'dib run away to join the circus as a kid!

From that point of view I don't consider the new books to just be bad, I find them offensive.

[Ampoliros]

S wrote: "In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were"

We find out at the end of Chapterhouse who they were.

Then the new books flat out ignored it and changed it to their own characters, while at the same time waving mythical notes to legitimize their books.

[[deleted user]]

It's kinda obvious to me - stay away from the non Frank Herbert books. I see somebody disagree a lot, and bless you! But to me, the Dune saga is so important that I wouldn't want it to be polluted. The Dune saga is the master piece of one artist. I'd rather re-read the six books, than read the others.

[S]

Ampoliros wrote: "S wrote: "In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were"

We find out at the end of Chapterhouse who they were.

Then the new books flat out ignored it and changed it ..."

Who were they?

[Dave]

Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
Stop
Wait a year...then read
Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune

[Mike]

Dune.

Then stop.

[Mark]

Read any like and ignore the NAY sayers, they have an opinion that is valed for them and try to stop other people enjoying Frank Herberts whole Dune saga and/or the new Duneverse by his son & friend.

Find your own interest or not.

[Dave]

Yo Mark. Nobody is trying to STOP others from reading. The question was order and substance besides, its all just Rock and Roll, so chill.

[Mark]

Dave wrote: "Yo Mark. Nobody is trying to STOP others from reading. The question was order and substance besides, its all just Rock and Roll, so chill."

Yo Dave, all the "Dune-purists" want people only to read their vision, as can be read from the advises.

The question was in what seqquence and that probably would involve the New Dune as well. And in my humble view you realise Franks genius even more once you read the later material. Even if we seem to be in a current quite good trilogy.