Twilight
discussion
Why do you think people hate twilight so much?

Agreed. I am honestly not even remotely jealous of Bella and Edward. I think their relationship is messed up. Abusive, completly based on looks. It's poorly written and way to shallow. It's all too perfect. Perfect boyfriend with the perfect looks and the perfect family and the perfect personality and then there is the perfect baby who doesn't cry, grows through all the horrible things a baby has to go through and all. The fact that Vampires SPARKLE in sunlight instead of spontaniously combusting which is a way more dramatic and better effect if you want to be seen as a monster... cause honestly everyone who'd spark in the sunlight would just get a laugh out of from me ... how can you be scared of someone who sparkles like a unicorn threw up on them? I've read all the books and seen all the movies and I seriously hate it... And that's not because I'm jealous of an abusive creepy stalkerlike relationship thank you very much. Bella is weak, and shallow and Edward is stalkery, creepy and way to overprotective. People who say Twilight is romantic need a lesson in romance and love.
there.

I know my opinion is not that valid because it was one of the first books I read and I don't know much of literature but I loved the first three.
The last one was extremely borning, I tried to read it three times and I just finished it one time xD
I also don't like Bella's character, but I was in love with Edward because he was very caring. I really liked he wasn't the type of guy who just want to have sex. He wanted to wait until marriage and he always cared for Bella a lot (which I never understood because she was extremely annoying).
With the time I came to realize that the reason why I hated Bella so much and Edward and Jacob loved her was because they didn't know what she was thinking and I did.
Well at the end I can say I liked the books except for Bella. And about sparkling vampires... I don't see what's bad on it. Everyone has a different way of be creative and maybe it sounds stupid, but at least is something no one thought about before.
And at last... I can say I liked what my friend told me once. She said that maybe the books weren't that good, but they reached the main goal that is immersing people into the habit of reading. I think that's just so true, we have to start with something and I am so grateful that I discovered the pleasure that comes with reading a book. Also, everyone has different interests and we need to respect them even when we don't agree with them.
P.D.- English is my second language so I am sorry if something is not understandable xD

Exactly. In addition, Bella & Edward's relationship isn't healthy.
People hate it because of the movie's. Before the first movie came out, no one was hating on it. And like someone else said, it's 'cool' to hate Twilight now. Pretty sad actually.

Then again, I don't think that's the reason people hate the book. I think i..."
Dear God someone finally put this into words! I read this series before it became uncool to like it. And while I will admit that compared to some of the series and novels I've read as I've gotten older, Twilight is not written too well (minus Breaking Dawn), but it's not a bad book. I do think that many people don't like it just to look cool, and to those people I say grow a spine. And to all the people who have judged it with only the movies to go by? You guys should read the book before judging. Rant over haha.

Have you read any or all of the books? Are you going off the movies? I'm genuinely interested to know and tap into the mind of a fellow reader haha. :)

totally agreed
but then i would also like to say that some people hate Twilight because of the movies made on it..
personally i saw the movie first and then read the book (as i not a romance or love story lover but my friends insisted) and it was obviously so much better than the movie..

perfectly phrased
agreed!

totally yes and i would add Hunger Games to the above examples


but how many teens went out and read the books
and the fact they allude to other great works may make a few of them try to check them out too "Ann of green gables""Pride and Prejudice" "Wuthering Heights" ect. or maybe write a better love story that kids can identify with I feel the only stories critics like seem to have a dark ending ie edgar allan poe do you think he could write about rainbows
overly dramatic teenage girls i know i have 3 of them


this person never read the book edward was changed in 1917 and was very moral 1 love 2 marriage 3 sex he never found his love until Bella. Edward and Bella did not make love until they were married.
he and his family weren't there to hook up
as for older guys with younger girls it is only in the past 40 years is it unseemly in fact most girls were married off by 18 if not sooner to older establish men for political or business reasons that was the norm
and the daughters had very little to say about it
correct that they had nothing to say in the matter
from http://www.angelfire.com/ca/HistoryGa...
colonial times Young girls were often married by the age of 13 or 14 and if women weren’t married by the age of 25, it was socially humiliating.

but how many teens went out and read the bo..."
Edgar Allen Poe wrote horror and basically invented the Crime genre. It's not his bloody job to write romance novels! It IS his job to write darker stories though as that is part and parcel of his genre.
Critics love Jane Austen and she's not dark at all. Although she did mock Romance of her time. Critics love Oscar Wilde and he's not dark, merely sarcastic. Even Shakespeare who is absolutely revered by the Literary Boffins isn't often dark. Even his tragedies often have an air of sarcasm and fun to them.
Truth is, critics don't often like straight Romance because of it's tendency to embrace purple prose. Something seen as improper technique, not because they're not dark or whatever.

Here's the deal: I don't like Twilight because of the romance. I don't like it because of the characters. I certainly DO NOT like it because of the writing. Back when I was reading for fun as a little kid, it was great. But now I have more to compare it to. I have opinions. Strong ones. Bella's character is weak, no doubt. The only thing I could ever gather from her was "You cannot live without a man" which is not the message we want to be sending young girls. Her relationship is not fun to read. It's not lovely, or beautiful, thank you very much and the actual writing of the books isn't all that great.
So why do I like Twilight? The story. It's not great, it's good. Girl falls in love with vampire. Vampire falls in love with girl. Girl makes friends with werewolf. Werewolf falls in love with girl. And that's all it takes as far as I'm concerned: a story that will keep me interested. If you hated it, I can recognize why, but I personally enjoy it.
Don't even get me started on the movies though...

this person never read the book ..."
That's probably because during Colonial times (and before) women often died during childbirth due to a combination of lack of proper pre and post natal care and the fact that they were that young in the first place (teenage pregnancies are actually much more at risk for complications than pregnancies in women in their 20s.) Plus back then having an heir (preferably male) for men was pretty paramount. Hence why a lot of older men often married young. One it provided them with a greater chance of an heir and two because women had a tendency to die in childbirth they often "needed" a woman to do the "women's work" and thus they often remarried. Which probably explains the reason why the men were often much older than their brides. That's not exactly a great testimony for exulting or excusing such marriages in the past, mate.

They were developing crushes on each other from afar before they'd officially met. They didn't realize it at the time, but they were crushing from her first day of school in the cafeteria.
How come the Cullens are risking their lives for Bella when they'd just met her?
Their family dynamic is very different and they are very loyal and supportive of each other. Think about it like this...the Cullens are a family that is comprised of non-blood related people who have taken in complete and total strangers and they eventually become part of their family. They even took in Laurent and they were willing to take in Bree Tanner.
- If she described Edward's perfect face one more time I WAS GOING TO SCREAM!!!
Totally agree. It was a bit much. I was annoyed with the constant reminders of how pretty he was also.
- Bella cooks, cleans, does the laundry... why did her mom not want to leave her at home? She'd be fine!
It's not technically legal. Her mom was traveling with her new husband, who was a minor league baseball player. She was going to be gone a lot and for extended periods of time.
Stephenie Meyer went out of her way to make Bella more likable. We also see a bunch of Jane Austen titles thrown in there. I hardly think she understood the books. Not reading Sense and Sensibility because there was a guy named Edward... I read all of Austen's novels at the age of 11.
I thought Bella was a bit of a Mary Sue character, so no arguments here. Totally agree.
- Edward's creepy. If a boy I'd known for a week was sitting on the edge of my bed, I would kick him and scream. It's not romantic, it's creepy.
I agree, but he was a vampire, so I expected there to be some creepiness about him.
- You can't get rid of your whole life for a guy. Bella was a teenager and new guys were going to be coming around. She threw away a promising future where she could have a stable life for an abusive vampire. "
I don't view Bella's future as not having promise. She can still do just about anything that she chooses and sets her mind to. Not every woman desires "stability". (<-- in quotes because I'm not certain what stability means to you.) Although, at the end of Breaking Dawn, Bella seemed to have a stable marriage, family and a stable circle of friends. She seems "stable" to me.

It's not legal? Seriously? She's what 16? That's the age where you go supervise other kids (babysitting gigs.) I think she would have been fine home alone.
I know (unreliable) parents who used to leave their 14 year old home alone for extended periods of time and no one battted an eye. I mean to be fair, the kid was highly capable and people judged the hell out of said parents. But still.

It's not legal? ..."
She probably would have been fine, but you can't leave a 16 year old alone for that long. Her Mom was going to be gone for weeks and possibly even months at a time. You can't (legally) go away and leave a minor home alone for that long.

It's a fictional world where sparkly vampires exist, I'm sure the legality component could have been conveniently explained away. Like seriously, in Pokemon Ash is clearly explained to be 10 years old and goes out into the world all by himself and no one cares.

Sure....or SM could have just made her a legally emancipated minor. But then there would have been no need to go to Forks and live with Charlie.....


It's not that I hate the series so much, the elements in the book just doesn't resonate well with my principle of life. If someday I have a daughter, I'm gonna tell her not to be like Bella. (sorry for the long post-hahaha)

True. But what does she do when she goes to Charlie? She does pretty much the same thing anyway. In any case I never really felt that Charlie was in her life more than her mum, despite Bells living with the bloke!
She could have had a random road trip down to Forks. Have Edward think she's in college and then he has to impress her. That would have been a cool spin and kept the whole predatory/sexual game they play.

I hated the series, it first seemed like a good book, but them I started reading on and I felt disgusted with the characters, I disliked it because it is lacking of a intelligent and original plot, and a girl who falls in love with a sparkly vampire? no thanks.

i always wonder what is so great about bella, i mean edward's extreme attraction towards bella does not make any sense to me.
i also found edward overprotective, i understand that bella is vunerable, but she is not as fragile as edward thinks she is. ' keeping bella safe ' seemed to be the mission of his life...and when she went for cliff diving, (which sounds quite fun) he assumed that she was dead and went on a suicide mission, how weak is that! well...edward did not seem to have a life outside bella either
And when they use words like "reason for my existence, most people are like "duh, how dramatic" (including me)
i read this book when i was 13 and i thought that it was all good, (i dont know why) and rated it 5 stars, i did not understand why people hated it so much. after a year, i found the flaws in the book and changed the rating to four. And now, after 2 years, after reading other sensible Y.A books, (twilight was my first one) i can understand why people hated it so much even though i m not one of them.


Then again, I don't think that's the reason people hate the book. I think i..."
I totally agree with you. I have friends who do and hate things just for the clicks. I love Twilight, but I hate Bella. She is a terrible person in all honesty. She never cares for others, she's weak and has everyone do her work for her. She also has everybody running after her and in love with her. But maybe that's just my opinion.
Love Stephanie Meyer though, its just Bella I don't like. Well, that and all the unnecessary dwelling of one another (I call it 'Sap Crap') and 'Ohhhhh. Edwards soooooooo beautiful, I love how he sparkles. I just have to be like him so that I will be as beautiful and strong and fast as him.' I mean, I don't value life that much but come on, you have a future ahead of you girl, don't just through it away! I agree with Rosalie, she should get to live a nice full life, to bad she needs to get what she wants or she has a stupid fit then Eddie boy has to comfort her. (read her finding out she is going to prom in the first book).
If you love the supernatural (especially the werewolf 'cause there ain't no vamps in this book.) but need a stronger main girl, look up 'The Summoning' by Kelly Armstrong. you might just like it.
BYE

Girl. you read my mind better than Eddie would have been able to. LOL

Ohhhhh yeah.


Uhh, I'm pretty sure everybody knows any books about vampires are fictitious. Unless you can point out a book with a vampire that will be found in the Non fiction section of your local library/book store?
Also Vampires and humans have been umm "getting it on" since the days of Dracula (the 1800s.) Sex and vampires are intrinsically linked and have been for at least two centuries or so. Human vamp relationships off the top of my head (BEFORE Twilight) Angel/Spike and Buffy, Mina and Dracula, Sookie Stackhouse and Bill/Eric, Stefan and Elena (yes, both True Blood/Sookie Stackhouse Mysteries and Vampire Diaries predate Twilight, both came out in book form during the 1990s) and from the first Night World book James Rasmussen and Poppy North from the first story and from the second, Mary Lynette and Ash as well as Jade and Mark.

Uhh, ..."
Nothing, they were examples of human vampire relationships in fiction before Twilight was ever born.

Olivia it helps to find similarities in other books and shows, to compare books to other books. It helps explain why some people don't find twilight original because they've seen it in other books and are giving examples to show twilight is not original.
It's called giving an example.
It's called having a discussion.
When people bring up other books and shows, they are comparing it to twilight.
Your opinions on other books and shows will shape how you think and feel of other shows.
You might not see that these things have anything to do with twilight, but they do because talking about these similar books/shows show how you've ended up with your thoughts on twilight.
And it's also fun to compare books to twilight.
Simply put -
I like twilight because this other book is worse.
I hate twilight because this other book is better.
I think twilight does this worse because this book is better.
I think twilight does this better because this other book doesn't.
Twilight is not original because I've seen it in this other book.


I'm assuming (sorry if I offend you) that your native tongue is not English?
It's just that I didn't fully understand your comment.

I have no problem with the overall idea of Twilight (its a teen romance, where a teen falls in love. What do people expect?). What I don't like is the characters. Bella is weak, simply put. She's all the bad things a female character could ever be. Edward starts off alright, but then his personality tails off in the second book and he never gets it back. Characters with no personality piss me off, because they're so BORING to read about.
How can I enjoy a romance between two characters who I would very much like to flick in the eye to amuse myself? Answer, I can't.
I have no problem with the writing really, it's not the best, but it's not terrible either.
Like I said (wrote) I don't mind the plot all things considered, except for a few plot points that are just plain stupid (imprinting on a baby and expecting there to be no creep factor and the sparkly vampires-because that's...dumb, it just is).
So, all in all, Twilight would be better if the hero and heroine weren't such frustratingly annoying twits. And get rid of the bloody sparkles! They're supposed to be vampires, not pixies or Aliens.



Twilight does seem to have a bigger hype and its definietly made more money. Millions have read the books and seen the movie and because of the movie more people read the books.
TVD seems to be a more quiet affair but maybe that's because there aren't as many people making fun of and drawing attention to it but millions of viewers watch it but the book doesn't seem to be as popular.
Purely basing this on money made it would seem twilight has more fans.

It could be because SMeyer heavily leant on Science instead of being like "eh, it's magic and it's a mythical creature. So deal." Like most authors tend to do. If she did that, then people might just laugh/shrug off the sparkling as just a variation on the myth. (Imo, she should have just stayed in the fantasy genre instead of trying to dabble in Sci Fi, it just complicated things too much and inevitably made too many holes.)
There are actually glowing vampires (who resemble Zombies to some degree) in the book The Passage. But their glowing-ness is stated to be because they were literally experimented on combined with their differing biology, which resulted in an unknown affect (glowing.) Silly and far fetched, maybe. But with just enough plausibility for it not to be laughed out of the atmosphere by haters. Actually a relatively common thing in Sci Fi now that I think about it (I mean adverse and often silly affects of scientific experimentation.)
Vampires are supposed to be predatory, a predator that has a deficiency in camouflage is rarely seen (even with heightened senses/abilities) outside of sexual selection. For example, male lions have shitty camouflage, but it's actually the females who specifically hunt.
Vampires don't have sexual selection, they just hunt. So the sparkling is unnecessary in every sense of the word and goes against at least basic biological mechanisms. One can't even say it's like a vestigial limb, because they had a function that is no longer required. Eddy himself says he doesn't actually need to sparkle even to lure prey, so it seems utterly useless and without even a previous function (unless it is explained later in the series?) So in the scientific sense, it's stupid and makes no sense whatsoever. And if SMeyer didn't add in the pseudoscience parts, then the uselessness of said sparkling could be easily ignored.
(Maybe Eddykins is actually metaphor for diamonds?)
Also, aren't angels (even fallen ones) supposed to be ethereal and by definition "beautiful" beings according to most mythologies/religions? Shimmering, being golden or sometimes even being a really good looking badass is just part of the parcel. Not so much for vampires of even varying mythologies (excepting the good looking badass part.)
Personally, I think the sparkling gets a bit too much hatred. I come from an Indian background and jewels and gold and shimmering/glittery/sparkling is seen as not just beautiful but necessary (for both sexes to a certain degree.) I still found it stupid in Twilight, though.

I agree that she should have stuck to fantasy and not attempted to dabble in sci-fi explanations for her vampire universe. In the books, the only reason for the sparkling is that the vampire's skin is likened to certain marbles and stones that appear to sparkle and glitter in sunlight. It was an explanation for why they can't be seen by others in daylight. There were no biological or physiological reasons given beyond that to my recollection. It's my understanding that much of the pseudoscience stuff was done on her website and in the Twilight guide that she published. (I'm not the biggest fan of it. I've read portions, but I keep getting turned off by the glaring ret-conning that also goes on in it.)
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Presenting Robert Cormier (other topics)
Presenting Madeleine L'Engle (other topics)
Misery (other topics)
Lincoln's Melancholy: How Depression Challenged a President and Fueled His Greatness (other topics)
More...
V.C. Andrews (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
Presenting S.E. Hinton (other topics)Presenting Robert Cormier (other topics)
Presenting Madeleine L'Engle (other topics)
Misery (other topics)
Lincoln's Melancholy: How Depression Challenged a President and Fueled His Greatness (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Laurell K. Hamilton (other topics)V.C. Andrews (other topics)
BAD ACTING