Twilight
discussion
Why do you think people hate twilight so much?
Thesaint08d wrote: "Carly wrote: "I think more importantly it's not so much that it's even about a professional opinion. I mean doctors make mistakes, but you are more likely to ask them for medical advice than someon..."Very much so, indeed. :)
Jojo! wrote: "Carly wrote: "I think more importantly it's not so much that it's even about a professional opinion. I mean doctors make mistakes, but you are more likely to ask them for medical advice than someon..."
Thank you.
Morgana_lefay wrote: "Carly wrote: "I think more importantly it's not so much that it's even about a professional opinion. I mean doctors make mistakes, but you are more likely to ask them for medical advice than someon..."This is true and I get what you are saying, but the difference is most people can agree that if a doctor screws up on an examination it's bad. My point is that an opinion on how good something is in quality such as writing, music or other forms of art is subjective and that's the difference. I don't think anyone would believe that botching up a surgery is good.
It was more aimed at Whitebeards comment that we cant critique authors because we are not and dont know how much time energy etc. they invested into the work, but if you apply it to the doctors - that we shouldnt criticize them because we are not doctors ourself so we dont know how many years they invested to becoming one, but becoming a docor and having good position or your own practise doesnt automatically mean they are good and it seemed to me that whitebeard said that because author spent time writing the books and got lucky with getting published it automatically means they are good.Of course in medicine, or food or clothing its easier to tell the difference between good and bad, but we dont know the amount of time and energy put into producing the final service or product so we shouldnt judge them either according to whitebeards reasoning
Um, I'm not sure if anyone wrote this, but I'm not spending my time reading other people's opinion. Therefore, I might copy someone...I apologize if I do...The writing is great, and stuff. But the triangle-love and Bella's personality is the worst thing ever happened.
Okay, Bella is a self-centered damned character. Her love for Edward is gross and horrible. The first book was perfectly fine, with only Edward in her heart. In the second book, how is it possible Edward would leave Bella? Okay, skip those small parts. The biggest one is the 4th book. She suddenly kiss Jacob, thinking she could change his mind. Dude, you've been his friend for like years. After, she finds out she loves him. Um, that little whore finally finds out? Then, she's all trying to have Edward to kill her. Why don't she just suicide? She know he'll never kill her and will always forgive her. I think she doesn't deserve Edward and Jacob. They both deserve a better girl then her. Bella is very...Not trustworthy and she thinks she is always right when she's actually the stupid girl who goes all whore-like. I don't know why Edward and Jacob would even put up with her like that. She's a spoiled girlfriend and wife. Basically, Bella is the big problem. Others are good...
Bella is the problem. She is a self-centered little spoiled whore who thinks she can love two awesome guys when she doesn't even deserve such great guys. No offense, but I know that most 12 - early teens loves romance and kisses books. The triangle-love is the problem. Jacob and Edward deserves a better girlfriend / wife then Bella. The main think is, in the 3rd book, Stephanie Meyer ruined Bella's character. You know how? Finally, Bella finds out she loves Jacob too and doesn't want him to die. Um, she's with Edward. If she doesn't know Jacob won't change his mind then I don't think she's a very good friend and lover at all. She tells Edward to kill her but she know he won't. Why don't she just suicide? The best ending. ever. After, she promised she would only love Edward and won't leave him because he can't live...Oh, yes she'll just leave Jacob. Have I mentioned after that she went to Jacob and said, "I wish I can take care of you...Be your wife...I love you"(Something like that). She's dishonest and doesn't think before she act! In the second book, Edward leaves Bella. Have he ever thought how much Bella loves him (I'm not saying my before spaz doesn't mean anything but Bella does love him..) He never thought she couldn't live. Ugh. No comment. Technically, the romance is to shitty at the 4th book and 2nd book.
Morgana_lefay wrote: "It was more aimed at Whitebeards comment that we cant critique authors because we are not and dont know how much time energy etc. they invested into the work, but if you apply it to the doctors - t..."This is true. It does definitely make the point that just because someone spent time and energy becoming what they are doesn't mean it's going to yield good results in all cases.
Aubrey wrote: "i don't think that people really "hate" twilight nor are they jealous of it. i think that people just really disliked the movies for the most part. and if people say they hate the twilight books, t..."I completely agree. I mean most people I hear talking about hating the series aren't even readers. So why even let it bother you? Also the books are fairly good but the movies are so horrible I want to throw up. I think if they never made it into a movie than it wouldn't be hated by everyone who really doesn't know the whole story because all they did was watch the gay-ass movie instead of reading the books that are way better written than anything they could pull out of their unimaginative minds. Overall, I honestly enjoyed the storyline and even though the characters are a little unrealistic, aren't ALOT of others books similar? I mean isn't that why it's called fantasy???
Felicia wrote: "I don't think people are jealous of what Edward and Bella have, because everyone knows that it's unrealistic(and stupid).Then again, I don't think that's the reason people hate the book. I think i..."
It is lame to "try" to be cool. It's like these little boys that claim they hate Justin Bieber; they secretly want to be him and sing in front of the mirror every night. Every chic would LOVE to have a love affair like Edward and Bella have, and every dude dreams about having the confidence and suave nature of Edward. Even if they won't admit it.
Cheryl wrote: "Felicia wrote: "I don't think people are jealous of what Edward and Bella have, because everyone knows that it's unrealistic(and stupid).Then again, I don't think that's the reason people hate the..."
I would not like to have an affair like Edward. Edward is the type I would file a restraining order for. Stalking is not romantic, it's scary.
Cheryl wrote: "Felicia wrote: "I don't think people are jealous of what Edward and Bella have, because everyone knows that it's unrealistic(and stupid).Then again, I don't think that's the reason people hate the..."
I don't think I would like affair like that. someone who leaves me because he think it's better for me and no real reason for liking each other (only think I remember them liking about each other - he can't read her mind and she smells nice, she thinks he is relly pretty oh and he tells jacob to have children with bella - to want someone to have children with the one you love???), I dont say I wouldn't like HEA but not really like bella and edward)
Wow, such a . . . fiesty debate. I guess I just have to add my opinion of it too.Since this thread is about why we think people hate the Twilight Series, I won't go into the reasons I did.
1) It didn't follow the usually protocols of a supernatural story. Vampires were vegetarian, they didn't need to be invited in, they 'sparkled' in sunlight . . . ALL wrong. So superstitions/legends we were used to, were null and void for the most part, and while it provided an interesting point of view (I mean, I never really expected a 400 year old vampire to only come out at night. It's too unrealistic.), but I thought it could have been rationalized a bit better then sparkling in the sunlight.
2) It's a romance. Mostly forbidden romance. When you take your beloved myths and lengends, turn them upside down, and then add romance to it . . . yeah, that won't win points.
I think those two are the root causes of why it received such negative feedback. Everything else was just easier to nitpick on because of it.
I think the main reason Twilight has soo many haters is its rapid fame and crazy fans. That always leads to the opposite: haters. That is true for anything "icon"ized in life:all politics, famous people, music... Second, Many people are used to sex,sex,sex, and these books were about truly loving someone. I think she needed Jake, but always loved Edward. Yes, Eclipse was the most boring of the books, but we needed some of the information. Stephanie Meyer never meant for the world to pick apart every detail, just enjoy a love story in a flowered field- if you don't like vamps and wolves don't read!
Maybe it's because of the temporary infatuation one develops with Edward and Bella's romance and their longing to gain it leaves a shadow of embarrassment when such an infatuation slowly fades. I think the most deplorable aspect of the ultimate book is Meyer's exhaustible foreshadowing of a 'big fight' which never occurs and consequently creates a great anticlimax. Perhaps most frustrating is her crude thrusting upon the readership a menagerie of new characters whom she fails to develop. It is almost as if she is compensating the lack of action with trying to evoke some feeling of great compassion in the readership towards the possible destruction of these paper-thin dispositions. There is an almost sickening 'happily ever after' aspect of the ending which I think is the greatest downfall. One of the reasons why Harry Potter is incomparable to the Twlight Saga is Rowling's ability to develop characters so that they hold a firm position in our hearts
I think since one person decided they didn't like the books or the movie that now everyone is deciding to hate it also because now instead of liking the books and movies its "popular" to hate them now i have been witnessing that many people who once claimed they loved Twilight Series and the next week they hated it i think its just completely sad that people want to fit in that bad with everyone else they would lie just to be in.
Faith wrote: "I think since one person decided they didn't like the books or the movie that now everyone is deciding to hate it also because now instead of liking the books and movies its "popular" to hate them ..."I personally don't hate the books (hate is such a strong emotion) I just dont really like them anymore, I liked the first book (really liked it) but then it just faded away and I couldnt be bothered to even finish the series and I dont think that if I attempted to reread the book now that I would be able to finish it (maybe with lots of skipping through but otherwise... no)
When I think about the book now I can see the problems in there which I didnt even think about when reading
the thing I dont understand is that some of the ppl who say they hate it because of sparkling vampires - its fiction, they could turn pink with purple dots in the sun or I dont know revert to children if the author wanted them to
Because it's poorly written and has a pathetic female lead that's a horrible role model for young girls everywhere?
Ashley wrote: "Because it's poorly written and has a pathetic female lead that's a horrible role model for young girls everywhere?"hear hear!
When this first became popular, it was a bit of a shock to me. I would go to Hastings every day, have a latte and browse the many titles(I know, I need a life), then out of the blue, I start hearing people raving about a new book called "Twilight", and I mean out of the blue. No one even spoke of it the day prior when I was there. Anyway, I had to ask what everyone was talking about. So, I find it strange that an enormous amount of people would line up for the new release as soon as it came out(just look at how wealthy Stephanie Meyers is), but now everyone I speak with hates the book. I never hear anything good about "Twilight" anymore, yet when a new "Twilight" movie comes to the theatre, it is always "sold out" although so many people speak negatively about the book. I tend to agree with Felicia on this. Stephanie Meyers got a lot of flack about her series(I don't think she cares with the money she now has) with people talking about how poorly it was written and edited, and I had even heard around town that only a tween could like such nonsense. So, it stands to reason that most people follow the majority on this in order to look "cooler" as Felicia had previously said.
Carrie wrote: "I think the main reason Twilight has soo many haters is its rapid fame and crazy fans. That always leads to the opposite: haters. That is true for anything "icon"ized in life:all politics, famous..."I totally agree Carrie!
Appreciate it for what it is; a really good love story. And, hello, it's fiction. If you really want to pick it apart...she wrote a story, it was a good story, then it gets picked up by a big publisher and she signs a contract (I'm just guessing mind you) requiring that she write three or two or however many more books she needed to write at that time. Maybe she already had New Moon and needed to write two more, I don't know, I'm just sayin'. A story is a story, it's not real life, most things that happen in "fiction" novels don't really happen in real life which is why people like to read them. Here's a thought for all those gals that think Edward was a "creeper". I would LOVE to be stalked by an incredibly strong and handsome man that is completely and totally in love with me, that would give up an eternity of happiness to save my soul and give up his own life because he couldn't live if I were dead. If you don't think that's romantic than maybe you should read something else.
Cheryl wrote: " I would LOVE to be stalked by an incredibly strong and handsome man that is completely and totally in love with me, that would give up an eternity of happiness to save my soul and give up his own life because he couldn't live if I were dead. If you don't think that's romantic than maybe you should read something else. "I would agree with that. What I don't understand and what baffles me, is the consensus of Bella being a huge whiner. I read the books and don't remember her whining to anyone. Can someone jog my memory?
Kids, it's fashionable, that,s all there is to it.
Actually, I've read all of them and I can't remember her being a whiner either. I know she went through major depression when Edward left, but other than that I can't put a finger on one thing really.
Sondra wrote: "Actually, I've read all of them and I can't remember her being a whiner either. I know she went through major depression when Edward left, but other than that I can't put a finger on one thing rea..."When she went through her depression she was catatonic. Can't really whine when your catatonic. ;)
Maybe people don't know what whiney means? Everyone who said Bella is whiney - it means:
Noun: A long, high-pitched complaining cry.
Verb: Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound.
Synonyms: noun. whimper - moan
verb. whimper - pule - moan - yelp - snivel
The only time I can think of when she truely would be whiney is when James broke a few bones of hers and bit her. Maybe your a whiney character when you whine when you are in pain?
I think ppl mostly meant that she was complaining (never satisfied with her situation)- I think whiney is used to describe someone like that but cant be really sure since english is not my first language - this is only based on commets I read here on goodreads because I dont really remember the specifics of the books, so thats what I gathered
I absolutely despise the characters, and the plot..
Morgana_lefay wrote: "I think ppl mostly meant that she was complaining (never satisfied with her situation)- I think whiney is used to describe someone like that but cant be really sure since english is not my first la..."But to switch from whining to complaining, I dont remember her complaining either. She didnt complain when James was coming to kill her. Or when she got dumped.
I think people are haivng issues with her inner dialog. That she should think like they would think. And thats just crazy.
I have more problem that ppl think its romantic that a stranger was in her room when she was sleeping and they think its romantic (i dont mind when he was there when she knew) ppl say he was there because he loved her, but did he really at that stage? they didnt even really known each otheror that ppl think it romantic that someone goodlooking who later says he loves you followes you around (stalks you - still before you really know anything about him)
adn maybe ts because i was never in love but leaving everything because of boy/girl - never really understood it, it seems totally unhealhy (for the person and could be even bad for the relationship in the future)
I think that people don't like twilight because it has a different way of how vampires and humans communicate, but I like twilight!
Megan (I heart FINNICK) wrote: "Never read them...i have the answer!!! VAMPIRES AND WEREWOLVES SOUND STUPID!!!!"
YESSS! :)
i think people just like abusing something that is popular like justin bieber
Bella was weak, edward was a control freak who sparkled, and the (for lack of a better word) unbalanced relationship. Did I mention that he SPARKLES?
Heidi wrote: " Cheryl wrote: " I would LOVE to be stalked by an incredibly strong and handsome man that is completely and totally in love with me, that would give up an eternity of happiness to save my soul and ..."They probably mean during her depression after Edward left. That lasted a bit long, but if you look at it in a fictional/romantic sense, she's connected to Edward emotionally and that comes out as physical pain. I don't recall whining in the books either.
Cheryl wrote: "Heidi wrote: " Cheryl wrote: " I would LOVE to be stalked by an incredibly strong and handsome man that is completely and totally in love with me, that would give up an eternity of happiness to sav..."When Bella was depressed at first she was catatonic. So she wasnt whining to anyone. And when she did start talking it was to Jacob, and she didnt whine to him either. In fact she didnt want to talk about Edward or being upset. If that is whining - NOT wanting to talk about it, then I dont know what whining is.
Reading about someone in pain, isnt fun. That I can agree to.
Its to out there, people loved it when it wasn't a movie. now its everywhere.
Morgana_lefay wrote: "I have more problem that ppl think its romantic that a stranger was in her room when she was sleeping and they think its romantic (i dont mind when he was there when she knew) ppl say he was there ..."I think when put in a reality setting then having a stranger appear in your room is scarey. But thats not what happened. The boy that she had a huge attraction to, had spoken to, had day dreamed about, made her weak in the knees was in her room. And well, theres only 2 things that come to mind that would happen if you have a boy you like in your room and you find out hes been watching you. You tell him to get the hell out, or you tell him to get in your bed. If I liked a boy that much, I'd probaby go with what she decided as well.
Heidi wrote: "Morgana_lefay wrote: "I have more problem that ppl think its romantic that a stranger was in her room when she was sleeping and they think its romantic (i dont mind when he was there when she knew)..."Even if you like someone, it still doesn't take way from the creepiness that is stalking and as it turns out he stalks her the majority of the time during points you don't think he is (Midnight Sun). If it were the guy I like, then it would change my entire perception of that guy that I liked. I would see a side of him that is obsessively possessive and scary.
That is an extreme I personally would think is a deal breaker.
Heidi wrote: "I think people are haivng issues with her inner dialog. That she should think like they would think. And thats just crazy. "I don't see how it's crazy to be annoyed at her inner monologue. She definitely whines more in her head then in person, but it does get old in my opinion. Especially when she whines about the weather in her head a lot or certain people. It's grating.
Carly wrote: "Even if you like someone, it still doesn't take way from the creepiness that is stalking and as it turns out he stalks her the majority of the time during points you don't think he is (Midnight Sun). If it were the guy I like, then it would change my entire perception of that guy that I liked. I would see a side of him that is obsessively possessive and scary. That is an extreme I personally would think is a deal breaker.
"
Thus, you would be the person to tell him to get the hell out.
Carly wrote: "Heidi wrote: "I think people are haivng issues with her inner dialog. That she should think like they would think. And thats just crazy. "I don't see how it's crazy to be annoyed at her inner mon..."
There isnt any problem to be annoyed with in inner monologue. Its crazy to think, she should think exactly as you (anyone reading this) thinks.
I'll also say, I never saw her whining to anyone. She can think anything she wants, but until she actually says it out loud, there was no whining.
Heidi wrote: "Morgana_lefay wrote: "I have more problem that ppl think its romantic that a stranger was in her room when she was sleeping and they think its romantic (i dont mind when he was there when she knew)..."Cheryl wrote that she woud LOVE to be stalked by handsome man who says he loves her - I take it she means human not vampire
and how can you be sure he loves you if you know nothing about him
and I admire you that if your crush (who you talked to only few times) was in your bedroom at night you would invite him to join you I would be really scared that he even managed to get into my room
I think that in every book ppl tend to think the characters should act according to what they think they should do - I often find myself frustrated when they do stupid thing and I think - come on do it already or hurry up and say it and so on i think its part of trying to get into the character and since we never know everything about them its sometimes hard to understand the choices the author made them do
Heidi wrote: "Carly wrote: "Heidi wrote: "I think people are haivng issues with her inner dialog. That she should think like they would think. And thats just crazy. "I don't see how it's crazy to be annoyed at..."
Who is saying she should think exactly like anyone? I just don't think that showing us all of her whining monologue in her head is necessary to the story. It doesn't need to be heard. Great, we hear what she's thinking, but if you're reading a story you don't need to hear EVERYTHING the first person is thinking. It's superfluous.
You don't have to hear every whining thought. It's not what she expresses aloud, but hearing her whining inner monologue and it's about reading through that that is irritating.
Heidi wrote: "Carly wrote: "Even if you like someone, it still doesn't take way from the creepiness that is stalking and as it turns out he stalks her the majority of the time during points you don't think he is..."Of course, but I honestly don't think the majority of the people who think they would ask him in to bed with them are really thinking that through logically. I think when that becomes real it's an entirely different story. Not saying there wouldn't be a few left that would, but I really think it's entirely different when it REALLY happens. Being stalked is scary.
Ashley wrote: "Because it's poorly written and has a pathetic female lead that's a horrible role model for young girls everywhere?"Ashley, do you only read books that have a good female role model? Just curious...
Ange wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Because it's poorly written and has a pathetic female lead that's a horrible role model for young girls everywhere?"Ashley, do you only read books that have a good female role mode..."
I just thought what kind of books I read and I realized that most of the MCs in the books I like are killers (even though they usually do it for some kind of good... usually) - Like kate daniels, mercy thompson (less), noble dead, dexter, night huntress, chicagoland vampires (when one thinks about it, its really disturbing especially whed reading you start thinking come on just kill him and get it over with) - so the characters are strong but cant really be taken as a role model, maybe only in that they try to do the right thing and they would do anything for their loved ones
Jake wrote: "Here is a question for you all... why do you like the book?And as for the boy comparison/sexist reason... people only make fun of things people are obsessed about. People make fun of star wars ne..."
I agree that people tend to make fun of things that others are obsessed about...but there is a reason for that. My little sister got the Justin Bieber movie for christmas and she decided to watch it in the family room while I was reading. Seeing those girls crying and saying they will be the next Mrs. Justin Bieber made me feel nauseous. And ashamed to be a teenage girl. I like Twilight and I think JB's music has improved recently, but the day I turn into one of those fangirls is the day someone needs to put me in the loony bin.
Morgana_lefay wrote: "Ange wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Because it's poorly written and has a pathetic female lead that's a horrible role model for young girls everywhere?"Ashley, do you only read books that have a good fem..."
I loooveee Dexter. Then again I'm not screaming that he's a good role model and in perfect relationships though, either. It's just dark and fascinating. I love the show and I need to read the books, I know someone who loves the books and I know the show goes in a different direction. So I think it's not about characters in Twilight needing to be good role models themselves, but the fact that so many proclaim them to be good role models.
Carly wrote: "Morgana_lefay wrote: "Ange wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Because it's poorly written and has a pathetic female lead that's a horrible role model for young girls everywhere?"Ashley, do you only read book..."
or that they use them as a role models
I dont think that fictional characters should be used as a role models especially those in romance books - well maybe when they are faithful that is a good trait and I dont think anybody wants to be with someone who cheats on them
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i think that that is correct!!! right on