Brisingr
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Murtagh and Roran are the same person
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Oct 06, 2011 11:13PM
The title basically says it. They are slowly morphing into the same character, except that whereas Murtagh gets angry and bitter, Roran gets depressed. But their often-strained friendship with Eragon is the same, as is their spiral from assured, mature, and pretty damn badass characters into violence and losing themselves. Even their love for an unavailable woman is the same (if you ship Murtagh-Nasuada as a possible romance). That's what I see. What do you think?
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Well, when I saw this I thought you meant they were literally the same person and I almost choked, but now that I've read this: yeah, there are a lot of similarities and I really hope that changes in the next one because to start with they were both pretty likeable and were quite different from each other.
Yeah, I'm finding I like them less and less the more similar/less developed they get. Though Murtagh will always be my favorite :)
Less-developed! yes, that is the perfect way to describe them now!!
Devolved...Yeesh, I don't know how you manage that. Usually you think characters *grow* as the books progress, not become more static...
Yeah, but I think a lot of the characters from this series are like that, I mean even Eragon doesn't seem to really grow past the 2nd book, Sapphira does.. but since I personally thought she regressed a bit in the 2nd one, her growth in the 3rd is more like regrowth (if that makes sense)
Nasuada, Arya, and Elva really grow a lot in Brisingr, though (even if everyone else doesn't). Eragon grows a little, in that he matures and stops stalking Arya. Ugh, he was obnoxious and creepy in Eldest. As for Murtagh, it seems like Paolini really chose a cop-out for plot purposes. It's like he's making Murtagh less likeable so it'll be easier for Eragon to kill him in the end, or something. There's so much potential for angst there, lol! But no! He had to just turn Murtagh into Darth Vader. :P
If Murtagh dies I will very likely throw the book across the room due to the simple fact that in "Eragon" he was my favorite character, now Nasuada is but I still would love it if Murtagh got a happy ending, I think he kinda deserves it!
YES I loved Murtagh in the first book! Probably because Eragon by comparison was such a wimp, and Murtagh always had an opinion or a solution or something. Like Brom; he was another favorite character. I did throw Eldest across the room...I swear I'll do the same with the last, and probably write Paolini an angry letter, haha.
I would love for Galbatorix's dragon to have a happy ending. He's been enslaved the longest, Galbatorix murdered his Rider, and I think he deserves to live. I would love it if Shruikan ate his master. And then preferably chose Nasuada as his new Rider, so she and Murtagh can get together. (Is that allowed? Choosing a new Rider? I guess it would depend on the circumstances of Shruikan's Rider's murder...)
I would love for Galbatorix's dragon to have a happy ending. He's been enslaved the longest, Galbatorix murdered his Rider, and I think he deserves to live. I would love it if Shruikan ate his master. And then preferably chose Nasuada as his new Rider, so she and Murtagh can get together. (Is that allowed? Choosing a new Rider? I guess it would depend on the circumstances of Shruikan's Rider's murder...)
You know I didn't even think about that poor dragon! but you're right he should have a good ending as well, I'm not sure about the "choosing a new rider thing" either, it doesn't seem like that would work but I would LOVE it if Nasuada became one.
If anything happens To Muttagh I will HATE the entire Inheritance cycle, despite the fatc that I thought it an epic series at the time of reading it. Murtagh was a fantastic 'good guy' and really really, it seems to me as though he ought to change back in the last book, and go against Galbatorix. That is to say if he isnt already against him.Murtagh was the main reason I carried on reading Brisingr after the disappointment of Eldest!
Murtagh is a more likeable character despite his being on the 'bad' side. But I don't really see so many similarities, except the fact that they are central to Eragon's existence.
I dont see any similarities, to be striclty honest. I mean, yes, they both have similar struggles, but doesnt nearly everyone in the story? Given the 'times' etc?
Mereworth wrote: "If anything happens To Muttagh I will HATE the entire Inheritance cycle, despite the fatc that I thought it an epic series at the time of reading it. Murtagh was a fantastic 'good guy' and really r..."
I saw a piece of Facebook flair (back when Facebook had flair, haha) that said "I read Brisingr for Murtagh." I think the fandom might rise in rebellion if he dies, haha.
I saw a piece of Facebook flair (back when Facebook had flair, haha) that said "I read Brisingr for Murtagh." I think the fandom might rise in rebellion if he dies, haha.
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yojharobed || I have no sword. I don't need a sword. Because I am the Doctor and this is my spoon. En garde!
(last edited Oct 07, 2011 08:08PM)
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Laura wrote: "YES I loved Murtagh in the first book! Probably because Eragon by comparison was such a wimp, and Murtagh always had an opinion or a solution or something. Like Brom; he was another favorite charac..."When a Rider dies, so does his dragon. Although maybe they could make an exception for Shruikan because Galbatorix enslaved him with magic.
Deborah~1 John 4:4~Greater Is HE! wrote: "When a Rider dies, so does his dragon."
Actually, that was in the movie, not the book. Otherwise, how could Galbatorix have killed Shruikan's rider and taken control of him? It says in Brisingr that when a Rider died, a dragon would often get someone to smash their Eldunari so that they wouldn't have to live without their Rider. Clearly, dragons can survive their Riders and vice versa.
Actually, that was in the movie, not the book. Otherwise, how could Galbatorix have killed Shruikan's rider and taken control of him? It says in Brisingr that when a Rider died, a dragon would often get someone to smash their Eldunari so that they wouldn't have to live without their Rider. Clearly, dragons can survive their Riders and vice versa.
Kayla wrote: "Yeah it's quite true. There are many similarities that I can now think of between them. Though I don't really like Roran, he annoys me. Murtagh is definitely my favourite and always will be. He was..."Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kayla wrote: "Yeah it's quite true. There are many similarities that I can now think of between them. Though I don't really like Roran, he annoys me. Murtagh is definitely my favourite and always will be. He was..."
Murtagh is my favorite :) I don't so much want him to "be good again" as to realize he's been good all along...despite what everyone says/thinks of him...
Murtagh is my favorite :) I don't so much want him to "be good again" as to realize he's been good all along...despite what everyone says/thinks of him...
Similar, maybe, but not enough to call them the same. Murtagh is my favorite, too. And I feel so bad for Thorn....
Addy wrote: "Similar, maybe, but not enough to call them the same. Murtagh is my favorite, too. And I feel so bad for Thorn...."
Agreed. :( What's annoying and weird is that Eragon doesn't seem to feel the same way. It's like whenever he starts feeling sorry for them, he pushes it away and dwells on all the bad things they've done.
Agreed. :( What's annoying and weird is that Eragon doesn't seem to feel the same way. It's like whenever he starts feeling sorry for them, he pushes it away and dwells on all the bad things they've done.
Laura wrote: "Addy wrote: "Similar, maybe, but not enough to call them the same. Murtagh is my favorite, too. And I feel so bad for Thorn...."Agreed. :( What's annoying and weird is that Eragon doesn't seem ..."
well eragon does feel sorry for them and wants them to change. he just has a sense of duty towards the rest of alegasia he can't let the bad guys win kind of thing... but its not that he wants them to be bad. he loves his brother ;)
See, I don't think he does. He is lukewarm in his affections toward Murtagh, even in the first book, because he's so quick to judge someone with a different worldview (meaning, a more cynical way of looking at things and dealing with life). They also keep bringing up that incident with Torkenbrand, and in some ways, it seems like Eragon's torn between feeling sorry for Murtagh and feeling like he deserved what he got. Anyway, Eragon's too self-absorbed to have complicated feelings for other characters, LOL.
He is VERY self-absorbed! He just thinks about his own problems instead of everyone else's; for instance, for pretty much the whole first book, he just hunts the Ra'zac to avenge Garrow and then he just assumes that he'll get to go back home and live a normal life again. It takes pretty much the entire first book to realize that maybe other people would prefer not to die, too. As for how he feels about Murtagh, I think that he does like him and feel bad that this is how things turn out, but he does not want to like him because he knows he will probably have to kill him.
Ember wrote: "He is VERY self-absorbed! He just thinks about his own problems instead of everyone else's; for instance, for pretty much the whole first book, he just hunts the Ra'zac to avenge Garrow and then h..."
Yeah, but he's also extremely judgmental of Murtagh. He has a few moments when he's missing Murtagh (during the very brief stint of mourning he goes through) where he thinks, "hey, wow, I didn't realize how good friends we were/how much I like him" because he was always either a. arguing with Murtagh because they are so different, or b. judging him on circumstances out of his control, OR c. judging him for being so different from himself. :P
Yeah, but he's also extremely judgmental of Murtagh. He has a few moments when he's missing Murtagh (during the very brief stint of mourning he goes through) where he thinks, "hey, wow, I didn't realize how good friends we were/how much I like him" because he was always either a. arguing with Murtagh because they are so different, or b. judging him on circumstances out of his control, OR c. judging him for being so different from himself. :P
I think that they each have a different personality, they react differently and see things differently. There may be some simalarity's but i do not think that they are so similar.
Murtagh is awesome. :D
Sara wrote: "Murtagh is awesome. :D"
But of course!! :)
But of course!! :)
wait wait wait, back track for me here. Where did anyone get any indication Murtagh and Nasuada is a possible romance? Or is this just some fan speculation?While I agree that they're getting kinda similar, there going the same way for different reasons. Murtagh because he's being put into circumstances that he can't properly deal with due to his anxiety issue (those are figurative) and Ronan because he's losing track of who he is because of what he's had to do.
I find this is kind of similar to my Gandalf/Dumbledore discussion.
Badgerlord wrote: "wait wait wait, back track for me here. Where did anyone get any indication Murtagh and Nasuada is a possible romance? Or is this just some fan speculation?"
In the first book, Nasuada says she went to Murtagh's room because she was curious to meet him. Murtagh later confesses his admiration for her to Eragon, saying he thinks she's beautiful, carries herself like a princess, and could put any great lady of court to shame. Eragon warns him to be careful. And then when Murtagh "dies" at the beginning of Eldest, Nasuada tells Eragon she feels sorry he's dead and she enjoyed talking to him. Also she cries about him at the end of Eldest (unlike Eragon...)
In the first book, Nasuada says she went to Murtagh's room because she was curious to meet him. Murtagh later confesses his admiration for her to Eragon, saying he thinks she's beautiful, carries herself like a princess, and could put any great lady of court to shame. Eragon warns him to be careful. And then when Murtagh "dies" at the beginning of Eldest, Nasuada tells Eragon she feels sorry he's dead and she enjoyed talking to him. Also she cries about him at the end of Eldest (unlike Eragon...)
Kimmie wrote: "Laura wrote: "Addy wrote: "Similar, maybe, but not enough to call them the same. Murtagh is my favorite, too. And I feel so bad for Thorn...."Agreed. :( What's annoying and weird is that Eragon d..."
I agree with Laura...I mean, I understand Eragon's feelings toward Murtagh after Galbatorix enslaved him, but I did think it was really odd that he went so far as to denounce him as his brother: it clearly wasn't Murtagh's fault or desire to serve Galbatorix (as he demonstrates more than once). I especially thought it was weird after Murtagh lets Eragon go when he defeated him, even though they both knew that Murtagh would be punished when Galbatorix found out what he did. I mean, how can you denounce someone who just sacrificed themself (in one way or another) in order to help/save you...and not for the first time, either? Especially someone in Murtagh's circumstances.
Oh, and to clear up the Eldunari/Shruikan business: 1. Yes, dragons can survive the death of their Rider and vice versa, although they usually either mad or kill themselves/have someone smash their Eldunari; and, 2. Shruikan didn't have a Rider, he was a wild dragon.
As for what I think about Murtagh/Roran, now that I think about it, I guess I do see how they are sort of similar. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're basically the same person. As Mereworth said, most or all of the similarities are do to the current circumstances. And even in their similarities, they differ greatly. So, my opinion is that they most certainly are not the "same" person. ("Same" in quotation marks because we're speaking figuratively.)On a side note, though, I have to say that Roran isn't depressed. Throughout the entire series he's driven, mostly by his love for Katrina (and later for their child), but also for the rest of his family and for his home, and also for his friends and, in an indirect manner, for the Varden and for Alageasia. And his devotion only grows stronger throughout the books. In the entire series, there is only one time he really "gives up" (I wont say what it is, because it's in the last book, only that it has to do with a wall), but that doesn't even count for my point, because, at that point, it was more wise than anything else (you'll understand what I mean when you read it). And when things are the worst and there's seemingly no way out, he doesn't get depressed, but rather lets that devotion drive him to accomplish the impossible, no matter the cost. That sure doesn't sound like a depressed man to me!
Just my opinion. =)
Laura wrote: "YES I loved Murtagh in the first book! Probably because Eragon by comparison was such a wimp, and Murtagh always had an opinion or a solution or something. Like Brom; he was another favorite charac..."I agree complete:D
No. Roran in in love with Katrina. Murtagh has a dragon. their personalitys arent even the same. Murtagh has turned hard and inifectual. Roran is human. I dont see it.
Loved mortgage dragon sort of grates on my nerves but I think thorn and sapphire should switch riders that would b awesome!
Someone wrote I would love for Galbatorix's dragon to have a happy ending. He's been enslaved the longest, Galbatorix murdered his Rider, and I think he deserves to live.
Totally I always think that his life is horrible
Totally I always think that his life is horrible
OP: They are both sidekicks. What did you expect from Paolini? :'D
How can anyone not like Roran? Honestly? He overcomes so much through the series and when you take into account that he is human and dragon less, He achieves more in comparison to Murtagh and Roran. The man does anything and everything to save his village, katrina and Alegaesia. He kills 193-194 men in one battle, barehanded he defeats an urgal, and beats Barst without his hammer. He does all this and is also probably the most relatable male character in the book. Hands-down my favorite character. If he were the rider the series probably would have only needed 3 books, possibly two, but i'm glad they kept him strictly human and mortal.
no freaking idea about anything like that. I never made that connection
Than k you all for the insightful posts! Great speculations now on to the last book to see how it really ends.
Arya Svit-kona wrote: "No. Roran in in love with Katrina. Murtagh has a dragon. their personalitys arent even the same. Murtagh has turned hard and inifectual. Roran is human. I dont see it."finally aomeone realizes that they are not the same at all
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