City of Bones
discussion
Can't stop thinking of plagarism
Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "No he was trying to tell you that it is all hearsay. Therefore it is up to you to provide evidence. ."
No he presented assumptions and speculation based on hearsay. I also made a co..."
OMG really? Do you not fucking understand things?
It is all hearsay! Thats what he was trying to say! But you are stating it as a fact!
The crime goes unpunished unless there are facts! Hearsay is not facts! They are rumors!
Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "No he was trying to tell you that it is all hearsay. Therefore it is up to you to provide evidence. ."
No he presented assumptions and speculation based on hearsay. I..."
Shelly wrote: "It is all hearsay! Thats what he was trying to say! But you are stating it as a fact!
"
Did you miss the part where he presented things as fact too?
* The author everyone is accusing her of plagiarizing didn't even care. That author wasn't the one who had a problem with it. None of the authors did.
* She did cite it after and it's not plagiarism if the original Author is okay with it
From you:
* Yeah she didn't give credit to an Author
Pot calling kettle black?
YOU people are stating her innocence AS FACT. When in fact, all that you are resting on is just lack of evidence.
I only started countering when the claims that were dismissed as "WRONG" without really knowing they were wrong. To me, it's a he-said, she-said.
There are two parties and I'm not sure who is right.
Claiming party 1 is right because party 2 doesn't have sufficient evidence is a fallacy. That may work for the legal system, but that doesn't really mean that party 1 is innocent.
A crime on go unpunished without facts. Yes! Exactly.
So does that mean she shouldn't try at all? We shouldn't try to find out the truth?
WHAT'S WRONG WITH GATHERING INFORMATION AND PIECING IT TOGETHER?
If there are inconsistencies, we'll get there when we get there. We should try to gather all the information available first.
WHY IS IT YOU'RE SO ADAMANT TO DISMISS CLAIMS WHEN YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
I'm trying to find out and if you don't want to, you're free not to participate in finding out.
Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "No he was trying to tell you that it is all hearsay. Therefore it is up to you to provide evidence. ."
No he presented assumptions and speculation base..."
Wow he was right, there is no point. You're too stupid to understand. INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY! So it is a fact that she is innocent until proven otherwise.
Fuck, so fucking frustrating.
Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "No he was trying to tell you that it is all hearsay. Therefore it is up to you to provide evidence. ."
No he presented assumptions and s..."
lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence
Shelly wrote: "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY."Presumption of innocence is the legal right of the accused criminal. This is not a trial, this does not have any legal bearing. This is just some people trying to understand what happened.
And even THAT doesn't mean we should silence everyone who cares to discuss this topic.
How can anything be proven if you keep attacking anyone with any information that counters your beliefs with "that's so stupid, that's hearsay!"?
I'm trying to get all sides and if you just keep dismissing what you think isn't correct then how can we even have the stories from both sides?
AGAIN, I didn't start this stating hearsay as fact thing. You did just that WAY before I did.
Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence ."
Incorrect. You stated innocence as fact using hearsay (by using the "authors didn't care" excuse) before I ever stated CC plagiarized (which I still don't believe 100% but I think is probable).
Shelley's statement did not counter them, but to be fair, I didn't present a definite stance before then.
In fact, I still don't have a definite stance as most accusations were counters to your statements that implied hearsay is incorrect.
If that was not what you mean, then why insist that all the articles have no value? I value people's input especially those who have been in the fandom at the time. I have seen contradictions I think there are far too few testimonies to be fair.
AGAIN, why are CC fans so adamant so silence other people's point of view?
Why do CC fans insist in strong-arming people into believing CC's innocence when they admit the evidence is too few, why try to stop gathering information?
Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence ."
Incorrect. You stated innoc..."
Alright, i'm done with this shit too. She is too stupid to understand simple things.
Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence ."
Incorrect. You stated innocence as fact using hearsay (by using the "authors didn't care" excuse) before I ever stated CC plagiarized (which I still don't believe 100% but I think is probable).
Shelley's statement did not counter them, but I didn't present a definite stance before then. In any case, her statement that CC didn't credit would support the stance that CC plagiarized.
In fact, I still don't have a definite stance as most accusations were counters to your statements that implied hearsay is incorrect.
If that was not what you mean, then why insist that all the articles have no value? I value people's input especially those who have been in the fandom at the time. I have seen contradictions I think there are far too few testimonies to be fair.
Why do CC fans insist in strong-arming people into believing CC's innocence when they admit the evidence is too few, why try to stop gathering information?
I should also mention that some courts employ presumptions of guilt. So just you know that "innocent until proven guilty" is not absolute. In any case, a social setting such as this one people are free to choose which principle they apply as this has no legal bearing.
Shelly wrote: "Alright, i'm done with this shit too. "
Good. Conversing with people who call you names is unpleasant.
I'd much rather discuss this with people who can discuss opposing viewpoints in a civil manner.
Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence ."
Incorrect. You stated innoc..."
Nobody is strong arming anyone! Why is it that all the people that claim she plagiarized says her fans strong arm them? We say get the fucking evidence, show some fucking facts before dragging someones name through the mud. But no, you think its perfectly fine to try and ruin someones name with out evidence. It's just like all those bullshit rumors people would start in school. None of its true, there was no evidence, yet people still believe it.
None of the articles have value because its all hearsay. None of it is verified factual information. You're not getting any new information. You're just getting recycled embellished information. This happened years ago. You think you're going to find anything new?
omg We have been using hearsay to show you how fucking easy it is to make something up and claim it as facts.
Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence ."
Incorrect. Y..."
Then why the attacks on anyone who thinks differently?
I repeat, this is NOT court. It is not absolute and it can be faulty especially when there is lack of evidence. There is no rule of everyone should employ "innocent until proven guilty" principle especially in this supposedly relaxed setting. Anyone who insists are strong-arming others.
Since the plagiarism can neither be proved or disproved (to my knowledge), people are allowed to think what they want. That goes to say that some people are stating their view point, their personal experience or personal belief.
Though it should be noted that libel is still illegal. Take it to court if you have to.
I feel that this is like the Casey Anthony case.
With the lack of evidence, she is acquitted, but a lot of people still believe she killed her daughter anyway.
People will have their own viewpoint whether or not you agree with it.
You're not getting any new information. You're just getting recycled embellished information.
Someone pm'ed me a counterargument article, that was new information to me. SO YES, I'm getting new view points. Unfortunately it was less detailed than the bad-penny information, but at least it's something.
I would've liked to gather more data. Do you have a problem with that?
omg We have been using hearsay to show you how fucking easy it is to make something up and claim it as facts.
You made a statement based on hearsay WAY before Daniel and I had an argument about the validity of hearsay.
Also if that was the intention, which I doubt, why not make up better more convincing lies that actually counter my argument (not help it)?
But anyway, that doesn't really matter.
Does a false report negate true ones?
It does not. It only makes it harder to discern which are true.
Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count as evidence ...."
People aren't stating as their opinion, their stating it as a fact. They're using blogs and forum post made by random people and saying its a fact. That's the problem. If your opinion is that she's a plagiarist, that's fine. Just don't state it is a fact with out proper evidence.
If you can show me proper evidence of this, then I will agree that she plagiarized. I'm not going to call her a plagiarist based on internet posts.
Daniel wrote: "Diane wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "lol, yeah, she doesn't understand that we countered her hearsay with more hearsay, and that since they are both hearsay, they don't count..."Then tell them they shouldn't be saying it as fact.
Insulting them and insisting that she should be considered innocent until proven guilty is not contesting that. It is only aggravating the people in the discussion.
I'm not really trying to get you to call her a plagiarist. I'm just saying that saying the testimonies are false, is too, an opinion and should be stated as such.
Yeah well it gets frustrating telling people for over a year to show the facts. I tell them to provide the evidence and the give me a link to a blog or forum. Those aren't facts. Have you read this one http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/...Really? You think i'm going to believe that?
This one is more believable, but again, it's not verified so I can't say its fact. http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/mortal-in...
Daniel wrote: "Yeah well it gets frustrating telling people for over a year to show the facts. I tell them to provide the evidence and the give me a link to a blog or forum. Those aren't facts. Have you read this..."Well, okay, I can certainly understand the frustration.
The first one is certainly over the top.
But I've been in a fanfiction fandom (not the harry potter one though), so I can't really say it's unbelievable (you wouldn't believe the stuff the goes on, it's ridiculous at the same time amazing).
If false, hope CC sues her; if not, then yikes!
I've seen the fanpop one. I wish there was actually way to tell if certain draco trilogy copies are the original.
But in all accounts, I've read Pamela Dean was uncredited with regards to the huge chunks of passage. Have you heard otherwise? Do you personally believe that this is true or not?
Also, do you have links to cassie fans defending her with notes of disclaimers and such? I'm not sure where to find them. I've seen one on tumblr, but it's not very detailed.
ok your personal war should be taken somewhere else. this is a debate and a disagreement, there is no need for insults and taking thing personally. if CC was really guilty then she would have been sued. so at this point it's A POV of each of us, but what is the point if we don't respect each other.
In the 2nd link it says "Credit for the inspiration for this conception of the wizarding afterlife goes to a book called The Secret Country, alas, I no longer recall who wrote it."
From what I've read, thats what got people calling her a plagiarist. That was the one that was poorly cited.
Rachel wrote: "Theoretically every writing could be plagiarized! Every book has some overlapping scheme or event like other books. Every book is similar to at least one other book in one way or another. Writers a..."lol i posted something similar months ago.. Great minds think alike.
Jennifer wrote: "ok your personal war should be taken somewhere else. this is a debate and a disagreement, there is no need for insults and taking thing personally. if CC was really guilty then she would have been ..."Agreed. But I would like to point out that there have been a lot of fanfiction writers that plagiarized and most of them just get their accounts suspended.
Book-wise, I don't think there is any plagiarism (except self-plagiarism, lol).
Daniel wrote: "In the 2nd link it says "Credit for the inspiration for this conception of the wizarding afterlife goes to a book called The Secret Country, alas, I no longer recall who wrote it."
From what I've..."
I believe the huge chunks of text were from chapter 11 and that footnote was from chapter 9.
Some say CC wrote the passages on her notebook and forgot it wasn't hers but I can't find a good source on that.
I do recall some other uncited authors, but personally, the Pamela Dean one was what bothered me most because of the length.
Jennifer wrote: "ok your personal war should be taken somewhere else. this is a debate and a disagreement, there is no need for insults and taking thing personally. if CC was really guilty then she would have been ..."I think I said the same thing about being sued before. I was wrong though, just as you are.
She could have plagiarized and the Author decided not to sue, or she could have been sued and settled with the Author.
Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "In the 2nd link it says "Credit for the inspiration for this conception of the wizarding afterlife goes to a book called The Secret Country, alas, I no longer recall who wrote it." ..."
I have seen blogs and forums where people that were there during her fanfic times were defending her. Saying that she did cite everything. I just can't seem to find any now. Probably because search engines usually go by how popular things are. Since defending here isn't a scandal its probably hard to find. That, and this happened over 10 years ago
Daniel wrote: "Diane wrote: "Daniel wrote: "In the 2nd link it says "Credit for the inspiration for this conception of the wizarding afterlife goes to a book called The Secret Country, alas, I no longer recall ..."
Ah I see. I also tried googling to no avail.
That and the original copies. I've found some, but they differ, and I can't really tell which is which.
i dont knoe, but ive read the first. but i haventt read her other books. plagiarism is bad. but its from her own book right, Harry potter books suck and i dont read them so i dont know about that.
All books are just copies of previous books....there is thousands of Romeo and Juliet re-writes (warm bodies) and the government is always the bad guy in dystopian teen fiction. There is hundreds of books about fallen angels (hush hush , unearthly and LJ Smith books). I am pretty sure if you read ever book ever, JK Rowling probably stole something off of somebody.If you get hung out on the fact someone said this and then someone else put it in a book then why bothers reading anything at all.....
@ Beth. Thank you! I completely agree with everything you said.Every book has some influence from another book or setting or characters within other books. Basically every writing could be plagiarized then.
Emma wrote: "i dont knoe, but ive read the first. but i haventt read her other books. plagiarism is bad. but its from her own book right, Harry potter books suck and i dont read them so i dont know about that."Harry potter doesn't suck... the movies do... try The potter. the potter is good for you. :)
Beth wrote: "All books are just copies of previous books....there is thousands of Romeo and Juliet re-writes (warm bodies) and the government is always the bad guy in dystopian teen fiction. There is hundreds o..."you sir, need a like button!
Beth wrote: "All books are just copies of previous books....there is thousands of Romeo and Juliet re-writes (warm bodies) and the government is always the bad guy in dystopian teen fiction. There is hundreds o..."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_di...
I'll try reading Harry potter if I can
Emma wrote: "I'll try reading Harry potter if I can"Emma, i going to add you as a friend and when you review it, or rate it whatever you do. Know that feeling when you run into a book that is so great that and you wish you can just forget it so you can enjoy the discovery again. That is harry potter.
Emma wrote: "I'll try reading Harry potter if I can"Emma, i going to add you as a friend and when you review it, or rate it whatever you do. Know that feeling when you run into a book that is so great that and you wish you can just forget it so you can enjoy the discovery again. That is harry potter.
Sophie wrote: "I love Cassie Clare. Don't get me wrong on that. I love her and all her books, but the sad truth is that she did plagiarise her fan fic. The reason no action was taken against her was because fan fiction is non-profit, so they were unable to press charges because it wasn't an official publication.But it is a shame she plagiarised in the first place.
Also, some of the above people have provided links to the plagiarism page."
Glad to see at least one Clare's fan who's willing to face the truth. Bliss you, Sophie.
Shelly wrote: "NHer fanfic gave credit to the authors, she just didn't mention what parts were from those authors. She had a game going with it, to see who can guess what came from what book "So it's okay to lift sentences, scenes and chapters from other people's creations in the name of GAME? In the name of letting people guess where did the original material come from? Dear me...
Mizuki wrote: "Sophie wrote: "I love Cassie Clare. Don't get me wrong on that. I love her and all her books, but the sad truth is that she did plagiarise her fan fic. The reason no action was taken against her wa..."You do know that she was wrong when she said this right?
"The reason no action was taken against her was because fan fiction is non-profit, so they were unable to press charges because it wasn't an official publication."
That is a false statement . It does not matter if it is non-profit.
So just by that statement alone, you should be able to tell she has no clue what she is talking about. So that was not the reason no charges were pressed.
Just thought I'd clear that up.
You're right. The first few books are just reminiscent of her Whedon obsession and her HP fanfiction. I actually have the draco trilogy on my knidle and when reading it you can see what influences her. But I think that after the original three books you can see her style developing a lot more and the story becomes a lot more fun. She hit her stride and in the infernal devices series- wow! She really showcases her author talents there.
Rosanna wrote: "My feet are firmly planted in both camps for this one.As an avid fan of the Harry Potter series, I'd read every book easily a dozen times over before even hearing about The Mortal Instruments. At..."
I agree with you in everything. You made a very valid argument.
Rosanna wrote: "My feet are firmly planted in both camps for this one.As an avid fan of the Harry Potter series, I'd read every book easily a dozen times over before even hearing about The Mortal Instruments. At..."
I laugh at people like you.
Mundanes & Muggles - Harry Potter wasn't the first book to use the word Muggle.
Steles & wands - Not only are steles not like wands, but again, Harry Potter was not the first to use wands.
As for the rest, well, about 1 million other books share those similarities.
"3. Yes. She is guilty as charged. But that was over a decade ago, and does not imply guilt in future publications (if you can call fanfics "publications," which is of course debatable)."
Prove it. You say guilty as charged? When did this happen? I don't see her being guilty as charged of anything. So what we have here is yet another person stating their opinion as fact.
Rosanna wrote: "3. Yes. She is guilty as charged. But that was over a decade ago, and does not imply guilt in future publications (if you can call fanfics "publications," which is of course debatable)."I agree with many of things you said probably saves the "Cassie Clare later develops writing talent" part and this point no.3: "But that was over a decade ago"; for I haven't yet seen her apologizes to those she had stolen from (If she did, do enlighten me!) so it doesn't look like a settled case to me.
Rosanna wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Rosanna wrote: "My feet are firmly planted in both camps for this one.As an avid fan of the Harry Potter series, I'd read every book easily a dozen times over before even hearing a..."
It just makes me laugh when people compare books to Harry Potter like it was the first book to use the concept. Did you know there is actually a book that came out before Harry Potter that used the word muggle? Did you also know that this book came out 13 years before Harry Potter and featured a character named Larry Potter?
I have read all about her fanfic. I have yet to see any proof. I cannot and will not label someone guilty with out proof. Internet blogs and forums are not proof. The only thing I have been able to find on this matter is hearsay.
I'm not trying to argue or sound like a dick. I have been reading and replying to similar posts on this matter for over a year now. A lot of the times people make it sound like Harry Potter was the first book ever made.
OMGS people, all the YA books are alike SO SO SO much alike. ALL vamp books have a winny vamp. evil dudes are always similar WHO CARES if it bothers you just stop reading the damn YA books and read something else, syfy, epic, historical, something. Most everyone is picking at this so much that it takes the fun of the adventure and story out of it. and if we really look at most of them we have peter pan syndromes, greek mythos, Norse, folktales. HELL this book takes crap from the gods know what verse of the bible. IT's there to get lost in the pages and to enjoy. SO ENJOY!!! and if you can't with this one, put it down and find a new one. there are millions of books out there. IF they don't satisfy your need, then make up your own story.
Sorry to bring this thread back to live, but the issue here is that Cassie Clare onced plagiarised in writing HP fanfiction, which is not okay. It's the point which annoys people the most is that Clare doesn't give credit when it's due. (Cite the references, etc) Now.
The thing is that her TMI series- and to an extent TID series, since the characters are almost the same as TMI, that Clare wrote her novel, plot and characters based or using her HP fanfiction, where the said fanfiction has lines and paragraphs and plot that she ripped off others' work.
That's the point.
here's a good link for more info: http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...
生命的天使 wrote: "Sorry to bring this thread back to live, but the issue here is that Cassie Clare onced plagiarised in writing HP fanfiction, which is not okay. It's the point which annoys people the most is that C..."It is not valid because it is also someone elses opinion (One that's actually on this thread and postng exatly the same arguments), It is a story, and there is no proof.
1) No proof
2) ALready discussed
3) "Not to mention she also received gifts from her fanfic readers. Nonprofit? My ass. " I'm just going to bold one word and then give you the dictionary meaning for it.
Gift:
something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
4) Already established, because she did
5) Presents the same arguments as 4)
6) Has nothing to do with anything
7) Basically cancels out her own arguement
8) Nothing to do with anything
I find it really interesting. I did some research and three things are absolutely undeniable:1. Cassandra Clare (CC) wrote a fanfiction based on JKR works.
2. In this fanfiction she put some excerpts from other book, by Pamela Dean.
3. We all use quotations in our work, consciously or not.
So - what is the difference and why all the fuss?
1. While writing fanfiction, you never present yourself as the inventor of the universe and/or characters. It is obvious that the credit for universe goes to the author - hell, that’s why we write fanfiction! By the way, authors I know find fanfiction more like literary tribute than plagiarism. But it must a/ obvious b/noted. And no money nor other credit taken from it without the author’s approval.
CC worked along with standards while writing Draco Trilogy, and note that she is not accused of plagiarism when it comes to Potterverse.
2. I found juxtaposition of clippings from DT and Pamela Dean book. It was not one quote, or one verse, or one scene - in DT you can wind dialogues literally copied from another book, and this book in the moment of publication was not listed as an inspiration (even if, still there is big difference between winking to the reader while placing known quote in character’s mouth and copying dialogues we find good).
And this - for me - is indisputable plagiarism. Because CC copied someone else’s work, presented it as her own and did not reveal the real author.
I really love TMI and TID, I likes Draco Trilogy. But damn, since there was no formal confession and apology from CC’s side, since she wrote CoB as roughly based on the characters from TD - it makes me feel uncomfortable. In my opinion there is no doubt that plagiarism happened. I honestly think that CC is good enough writer to gain all credit and respect without plagiarism.
But since I did my research, I just wonder. What if it is just from a book I never read? What if all the wit I love comes from a different author?
Cassandra Clare should just clarify the matter, once for all - I copied, it was long time ago, go read Pamela Dean, I am sorry. I assure you my books are my own work.
Sad story.
Stephanie wrote: "You can tell that she was influenced by Harry Potter when reading the books, but I did not feel like I was reading Harry Potter.The characters are hers. The dialogue is hers. The work is hers. ..."
She really did plagiarise her fanfiction. Sometimes it would be lines, sometimes large section from other works, barely change them if she changed them at all, and then never credit the other authors. I have a long list of novels/writers/shows she did this with.
The problem is that her book isn't all that different from her Draco Trilogy. There are parts in there that are still exactly the same. However, while Claire has always been a bully, she's also been exceptionally manipulative and clever. I have no doubt she'll never have any real consequences for her actions, just as there were no consequences for the cyber bullying, laptop-gate, or anything else she did while in the HP fandom.
Kat wrote: "I find it really interesting. I did some research and three things are absolutely undeniable:1. Cassandra Clare (CC) wrote a fanfiction based on JKR works.
2. In this fanfiction she put some excer..."
Nice explanation. I love Cassie too, but her 'never-say-anything' about Pamela Dean is indeed disturbing. Maybe CC is not a kind of person who takes criticism well enough. I wonder if she will ever say anything about DT and PD in the future.
Melody wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "You can tell that she was influenced by Harry Potter when reading the books, but I did not feel like I was reading Harry Potter.The characters are hers. The dialogue is hers. ..."
Exactly. No consequences. She's making millions off this series and book while laughing at her fans.
I don't believe the books are plagiarised . I believe her fanfiction was (the sections from Hidden Land were too enormous for her NOT to have the book open while writing it... and then she claimed she didn't remember the author). However, would the books have been published or risen to the height of popularity had it not been for her fanfiction? Can you still consider it not-for-profit if it basically launched her career?
My main problem has been the lack of class and cyber bullying repeatedly shown by CC. I realize many people disagree with me, but any author who takes shots at people who don't enjoy their work is not worth the time in my opinion. Plus, the books are not my cup of tea.
The issue is not that she plagiarized from Harry Potter. The issue is that everything that sparkled in the Draco Dormiens series was pulled verbatim or with minimal changes from Pamela Dean's Secrret Country trilogy (Dean's lawyers sent a cease and desist letter). CC also quoted Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel) and the writers of Blackadder quite consistently. Here's an example. "hapter 11 made use of Nightmare Grass, Dean's version of shapechangers, and two specific lines I recognized (emphasis mine):
She seemed to be involved in a battle with her own hair, shrieking and flailing with her arms at nothing.
"You're all right?" she said, in a quavering voice. "Your bones aren't coming out?"
I recognized both of the bolded lines immediately as originating in the Nightmare Grass scene in The Secret Country. (Page numbers here are from the current edition, and can be verified using Amazon's "Search Inside This Book" feature.)
86: "Laura was engaged in a vicious battle with her own hair."
87: "'It's you?' said Laura. 'Your bones aren't coming out?'" " Quoted, with many, many more damning examples, by WickedWitch02 in http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/mortal-in...
I was in HP fandom at the time of the scandal, and I remember being surprised at the vast similarities to books and shows I knew well. There are multiple sites out there that document the timeline -- check out http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/mortal-in... for a detailed and well-supported history. You can, if you dig, find the entire text of the Draco Trilogy out there (but do save them when you find them!). Get a copy of Pamela Dean, go watch old Buffy episodes, and then reread Mortal instruments. You will be as saddened as I am.
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No he presented assumptions and speculation based on hearsay. I also made a comment on some of the stuff he said based on hearsay.
Shelly wrote: "It would then be up to the accusers to provide evidence. Witnesses alone are not enough
."
But it is just to let the crime go unpunished? Does lack of evidence mean the crime has never happened?
Should we not present all the information we can gather to move closer to the truth?
p.s.
Didn't you make a statement also based on hearsay?
Shelly wrote: "Yeah she didn't give credit to an Author ."
To clarify, I never really started out arguing that CC plagiarized, but it seems to me people will flat out say the rumors aren't true without knowing whether they are true or not. So I took the opposite stance.
But I really want from this discussion is to:
a.) know what really happened
b.) discuss the ethics of what happened
Isn't that what were trying to do here? Get to the truth?