City of Bones
discussion
Can't stop thinking of plagarism
Harold wrote: "And it's plagiarism because it's a phrase from another work passed off as her own. ."
Even when she mentioned Virgil?
Did your Yes apply verses from Bible too? If someone quoted a verse from Bible, then they can also be considered as plagiarising Bible?
Nurlely wrote: "Harold wrote: "And it's plagiarism because it's a phrase from another work passed off as her own. ."
Even when she mentioned Virgil?"
Did she mention Virgil in the book? I'm not sure...
Harold wrote: "Did she mention Virgil in the book? I'm not sure... "This is from City of Lost Souls, ebook version: "This is from Virgil. 'Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.' If I cannot move Heaven, I will raise Hell."
Nurlely wrote: "Harold wrote: "Did she mention Virgil in the book? I'm not sure... "This is from City of Lost Souls, ebook version: "This is from Virgil. 'Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.' If I cann..."
Oh. Sorry. No, that's not plagiarism. Wasn't aware that was there. Oops.
Tenae wrote: "Yes! And when you read her other books, you can see she also has repeated the formula of her old fanfiction days. Jace and Will are sooo Draco Malfoy. Looking at other characters, you can see how s..."Excuse me? Cassandra Clare may have plagiarized 10 YEARS AGO on FAN FICTION for god's sake!!! It's fan fiction, it's already based on another person's story! And do you have any proof that The Mortal Instruments is plagiarized. If you don't like the books, then don't go around following the fandoms just so you can insult them and the authors that write them! Also, in what way are Jace and Will like Draco Malfoy? Draco is an evil sadistic rich kid, which isn't anything near what Jace and Will are. Seriously, pick up a book.
Sarah wrote: "Excuse me? Cassandra Clare may have plagiarized 10 YEARS AGO on FAN FICTION for god's sake!!! It's fan fiction, it's already based on another person's story! And do you have any proof that The Mortal Instruments is plagiarized. If you don't like the books, then don't go around following the fandoms just so you can insult them and the authors that write them! Also, in what way are Jace and Will like Draco Malfoy? Draco is an evil sadistic rich kid, which isn't anything near what Jace and Will are. Seriously, pick up a book."Amen! *high five*
Stephanie wrote: "You can tell that she was influenced by Harry Potter when reading the books, but I did not feel like I was reading Harry Potter.The characters are hers. The dialogue is hers. The work is hers. ..."
I totally agree with you. Just because there was a plagiarizing ACCUSATION against her 10 YEARS AGO, doesn't mean that every single one of her works is plagiarized. If you guys hate Cassandra Clare for "plagiarizing" then why are you reading her books. We like the books, so don't tell us we're wrong for doing that. We are entitled to our own opinion. It's finally great to see someone else with common sense on this discussion.
WHat?? You can't just say that someone plagerized just because they are good at writing! That is rude and ignorant
Rachel wrote: "WHat?? You can't just say that someone plagerized just because they are good at writing! That is rude and ignorant"Good at writing is debatable, but I do agree that I don't quite see anything that counts as plagiarism in her books.
Here is a summary of this entire discussion.*The words written in caps show the particularly important words/phrases.
Many people didn't understand what the original discusser meant when they said "plagiarism". In answer to that, over 10 YEARS AGO, Cassandra Clare plagiarised phrases from other books. Yes, this was plagiarism, but since it was fan-fiction and was non-profit, it wasn't an official case.
Now, when C.C released TMI and IFD, and she used PARTS of her fan-fiction for INSPIRATION, people believe that this is a rip off of Harry Potter.
Here is the major point.
People have no problem with The Mortal Instruments itself. It is the fan-fiction that has caused people to detest this particular series. But, plagiarism is when a particular phrase or idea is used in a piece of work for educational/financial benefit. So, if people can see no connection between Harry Potter, then what is the problem?
Just to point out, here is the dictionary definition of "influence"
the action or process of producing effects on the actions, behaviour, opinions, etc., of another or others
Plagiarism is when you use exact ideas and words, but influence is fine. Many of the greatest writers in history have been influenced by others works.
So to finish, if this was plagiarism, wouldn't law have already cracked down on Ms. Clare? If there had been proof of plagiarism in her OFFICIAL books, than her publishers would cancel their contract, her books would be removed from the market and she would receive a hefty fine, or be sued. But, as nothing has happened, we conclude that it is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL.
Does anyone want to add to this?
i think that alot of people think that because if any of you have read "The Draco Trilogy" a fan fiction series of Harry Potter that was written by Cassandra Clare it literally has so much of the same background and even dialog as her city of bones and the rest of the books. i read the Draco trilogy before i read mortal instruments series and when i was reading it Jace reminded me of Draco so much because the dialog is the same and so is alot of the plot but anyways i loved harry potter, the Draco trilogy and the mortal instruments so its okkay with me.
Cassie wrote: "i think that alot of people think that because if any of you have read "The Draco Trilogy" a fan fiction series of Harry Potter that was written by Cassandra Clare it literally has so much of the s..."I think I understand what you were saying, but I also need to remind you that The Draco Trilogy is CC's sort of interpretation of Draco Malfoy of HP series, some fans fiction series.
Draco Malfoy in The Harry Potter series does not actually speak the way Jace speaks, or act Jace's way. Draco Malfoy in the Harry Potter series was once a coward, and raised to be some superior wizard and thought as what pure-blood wizard was supposed to, thanks to Lucius Malfoy. But then he then found his bravery at the end of the series. Lucius Malfoy insults people, bluntly. He doesn't do sarcasm nor does he need to 'protect' himself from others, as Jace does.
Calling TMI is a plagiarism of HP should come from comparing the series themselves, not comparing one fans fiction of HP with TMI series.
Ed wrote: "let me get this straight. She used to write fanfic and the character of her published works resembles the fanfiction version's of the characters, but the fanfic versions of her character do not res..."FOR EVERYONE WHO THINKS THE PLAGIARISM IS HER COPYING HER FANFIC INTO THIS BOOK OR FROM COPYING HARRY POTTER, IT'S NOT! Allow me to explain.
The plagiarism scandal actually broke a long time before she published her works. It's a long story, but during her fanfic years when she was a BNF (Big Name Fan) She had a series of stories called the Draco Trilogy. They were incredibly popular and widely read through out the HP fandom.
At some point, she was caught lifting large portions of writing from another author's book, and not crediting it, there for presenting it as her own work. i believe the work she stole from was The Hidden Land by Pamela Dean.
Things get a little sketchy because she had seen income and perks from her series, such as new ipods and laptops because her's had been stolen and she couldn't continue the story without new ones. Her fans, demanding more of the series, sent her money, and a new ipod, I believe. I'm a bit sketchy on the Laptop Gate Scandal.
The reason those of us who remember the plagiarism scandal are so uncomfortable with her books now is that these follow her fanfics quite closely, and some sections are word for word quotes. Considering the number of pop culture quotes and stolen passages that could have been in fanfics but just weren't caught, it's very worrisome to see her use the same material, and even direct quotes from them when there's a still a possibility that she's stealing. This is made even worse when one of her recent books had a line form buffy in it that I caught.
Device wrote: "....i believe the work she stole from was The Hidden Land by Pamela Dean...."Can you provide us with necessary quotes on this?
Stealing is a big word. Did Pamela Dean or her lawyer or her publisher sue her of plagiarism?
Please do enlighten us.
Nurlely wrote: "Device wrote: "....i believe the work she stole from was The Hidden Land by Pamela Dean...."Can you provide us with necessary quotes on this?
Stealing is a big word. Did Pamela Dean or her lawye..."
Yes, I can. I can link you to the direct page in the Bad Penny article. http://www.journalfen.net/community/b...
Right under my impression of the Draco Trilogy. I've been trying to post it here directly, but my word processor is a piece of crap and keeps freaking out every time I try to do the html to bold the words here. Sorry.
As for Pamela Dean. She let Clare off the hook, and gave her the Okay to use the texts, but that was long after Clare had been caught, which is why I still consider it stealing. Retroactive permission doesn't make what she did any less wrong in my eyes. It just shows that Dean is far more forgiving than some authors out there.
I am getting kind of sick of attempting to get this across. Fan-fiction is based on a published book. I'll grant that. Yes, there was plagiarism in her fan-fiction. And yes, she then based her Mortal Instruments on this fan-fiction.
But here is the MAJOR POINT.
It is not DIRECTLY linked to Harry Potter.
I really can't be bothered typing what I've already said, so if you want more points, refer to all of my above points.
:)
Sophie wrote: "I am getting kind of sick of attempting to get this across. Fan-fiction is based on a published book. I'll grant that. Yes, there was plagiarism in her fan-fiction. And yes, she then based her Mor..."
Sophie, I'm not saying anything about Harry Potter. It's only mildly related because that was the series the Fanfic was written for. Otherwise it has nothing to do with this.
Device wrote: "Nurlely wrote: "Device wrote: "....i believe the work she stole from was The Hidden Land by Pamela Dean...."Can you provide us with necessary quotes on this?
Stealing is a big word. Did Pamela D..."
Hmmm.... You have succeded in making me reading. What I thought to be the comparison between Cassie's TMI with Pamela Dean's book has disappointingly ended up with me reading the comparison between Pamela Dean's with fanfic.
I have successfully added some grey to my hair by wasting my precious time reading... I am so sad...
Btw... Pamela Dean let Cassie of the hook, because it will be something so funny to sue against a fanfic, not because she will win something from suing Cassie. Maybe she has a good heart and more forgiving than some authors. Why don't you make her an example then? You can start having a good heart and stop calling Cassie stealing anything without valid proofs.
Device wrote: "Sophie wrote: "I am getting kind of sick of attempting to get this across. Fan-fiction is based on a published book. I'll grant that. Yes, there was plagiarism in her fan-fiction. And yes, she the..."
Thankyou for acknowledging that - you are one of the few people who actually understand that the whole "Harry Potter plagiarism" is not relevant. But if you are talking about the fan-fic plagiarism, than yes, that is true. And to be honest, it is a shame. She is a talented writer and shouldn't have even wanted or needed to plagiarise, but people have to understand that it was fan-fiction, A.K.A non profit, so it was not an official case.
But, what I was trying to say in the above, that while though her fan-fiction was partly plagiarism, it was not passed on in her books.
I find a bit of similarities between HP and TMI, but reading TMI didn't remind me of HP at all.TMI is Cassie's work, where she is paid for writing a shadowhunter world, not her fanfic. If she was so in love with HP and wrote a fanfic about the character in HP and quoted some of other writer's words, it is because it is a fanfic.
Pamela Dean who? So sorry, but I believe many of us living in Indonesia do not know who Pamela Dean is, not until TMI became a hit, people started to look at CC closer and started to raise plagiarism by comparing other books with her fanfic.
My apology to Pamela Dean, but there was no suing CC because there was no valid case.
If anyone wants to say anything about CC plagiarized anything under TMI books, can you please relate the books you suspected to be similar with TMI and talk about them rather than anything else?
Funny thing is that if no one looked at her fan fiction, no one would have claimed "H.P plagiarism" in the first place. It is purely psychological.
Nurlely wrote: "Device wrote: "Nurlely wrote: "Device wrote: "....i believe the work she stole from was The Hidden Land by Pamela Dean...."Can you provide us with necessary quotes on this?
Stealing is a big wor..."
I pointed out in my very first post that I was talking about her fanfic, not her published series. I'm sorry that wasn't made more clear for you. The problem is that the the TMI series is very very close to the fanfic itself, which makes me wary because there is always a chance that something slipped by the editors and Clare herself and made it into the books.
And I considered what I linked to be valid proof of plagiarism. She took the words without permission and without any kind of credit, and used them, implying they were her own. If I took someone's money without permission and used it, it would be stealing. The same applies here in my opinion.
Bear in mind, I don't have anything against Clare for what she did in the past. Though I don't like what she did, and she lost a great deal of my respect because of both the action and how she handled it when she was caught, I do acknowledge that that was a long time ago and she's probably grown and matured since then and learned from that whole ordeal. I don't necessarily like her as a writer, but I don't hold what she did back then against her. I was simply trying to clear up some confusion that people seemed to have about the whole plagiarism debacle.
@Sophie,
I don't think the plagiarism was passed on to her books either. I'm just very cautious with her books because she herself admitted at one point that she doesn't always remember what is hers and what's not in her old fanfic stories. I would hate for her to use something from an old fanfic, only to find that it was from another author after she had already published the books. That would be a nightmare for everyone involved, and it would be very sad considering how far she has come now.
Nurlely wrote: "I find a bit of similarities between HP and TMI, but reading TMI didn't remind me of HP at all.TMI is Cassie's work, where she is paid for writing a shadowhunter world, not her fanfic. If she was..."
Dean had a valid case for plagiarism, but all that could be done to punish Clare had been when she was kicked off the site that hosted her fanfics. Because Clare wasn't making actual money* from the fanfic, there was no violation of copyright. Not like with the Rusett Dawn clusterfuck, or the person who tried to publish their Star Wars fanfic.
*the money thing is up for debate because of Laptop gate, and the perks she had received as a BNF from her Draco Trilogy, but I doubt Dean knew anything about those when this mess came to her attention.
@Device - OK, it is all good with you then :) It might not have been you, but what I was opposing was the view of some of the posters on this discussion. It is disappointing that she plagiarised in fan fiction, but I just don't understand the big deal some "haters" are making of it. :(
Sophie wrote: "OK, it is all good with you then :) It might not have been you, but what I was opposing was the view of some of the posters on this discussion. It is disappointing that she plagiarised in fan ficti..."I think people are upset that she did that and still managed to get published, which I understand. It's frustrating to see someone do something bad, then still have something that great happen to the. I was a bit upset too at first, but we all do stupid things from time to time, and just because her mistakes were more public than mine, that doesn't mean they're any worse. From what I can tell she hasn't done anything like that since the whole plagiarism thing went down, so I see no reason to still be upset about it.
Device wrote: "I pointed out in my very first post that I was talking about her fanfic, not her published series. I'm sorry that wasn't made more clear for you. The problem is that the the TMI series is very very close to the fanfic itself, which makes me wary because there is always a chance that something slipped by the editors and Clare herself and made it into the books. "I see. I just thought I would have read something that relates TMI to other authors' books. Sorry for being 'jumpy'.
I think as much as you are free from suspecting Clare to have done the same in her books, you still carry the feeling in your mind. Not to judge you with what you feel about what TMI is serving you, but isn't 1 star too strong for a young adult novel?
When I read TMI, I just felt excited about the series (except the 'incest' part before I read City of Glass). When people pointed out the similarities between TMI and HP, I found out that the wand works relatively similar with the stele and that spells and runes work the same way. The facts annoyed me for sometimes. But I love TMI and reading TMI make me happy, so I got rid of my annoyance and continue reading Cassie's books.
I just think its funny that people insist she plagiarized her fanfic. If she plagiarized, why was there no legal actions taken against her?I see people like to post links to "prove" she plagiarized. How do these links prove it? She gave credit to all the authors except one, because she could not remember the authors name. She did mention what book she took it from though. So her "plagiarism" was because she forgot that one authors name? Some people are just ridiculous.
Daniel wrote: "I just think its funny that people insist she plagiarized her fanfic. If she plagiarized, why was there no legal actions taken against her?I see people like to post links to "prove" she plagiarize..."
I love Cassie Clare. Don't get me wrong on that. I love her and all her books, but the sad truth is that she did plagiarise her fan fic. The reason no action was taken against her was because fan fiction is non-profit, so they were unable to press charges because it wasn't an official publication.
But it is a shame she plagiarised in the first place.
Also, some of the above people have provided links to the plagiarism page.
:(
Daniel wrote: "I just think its funny that people insist she plagiarized her fanfic. If she plagiarized, why was there no legal actions taken against her?I see people like to post links to "prove" she plagiarize..."
Was there no Google by the time Cassie wrote her fanfic? It is so easy now to get the source of the words we quote by typing them on Google nowadays.
Sophie wrote: "Daniel wrote: "I just think its funny that people insist she plagiarized her fanfic. If she plagiarized, why was there no legal actions taken against her?I see people like to post links to "prove"..."
It's not plagiarism if she gave credit to the authors. What the fuck don't you understand about that?
She gave credit, therefore, no plagiarism.
Nurlely wrote: "Daniel wrote: "I just think its funny that people insist she plagiarized her fanfic. If she plagiarized, why was there no legal actions taken against her?I see people like to post links to "prove"..."
I don't know, maybe she just didn't think about it. Big fucking deal, she only gave credit to the book and not the author. Lets all start a we hate her club cause were jealous
She only gave the credit in her published books, not her fan fic. I know it is not plagiarism in her books, it is only the fan fiction. You can it up if you like - I was sceptical like you when I first heard it, but the articles about it confirmed what people had been saying.Also, please watch your language. Nurlely and I am both massive fans of Cassandra Clare, and I love all her books and have nothing against her. Read all my above posts for proof of that. I was just telling Daniel what he wanted to know.
No you weren't telling him what he wanted to know. She gave credit to the authors in her fanfic. Whatever link you are looking at is full of shit. Her fanfic gave credit to the authors, she just didn't mention what parts were from those authors. She had a game going with it, to see who can guess what came from what book
Sophie wrote: "She only gave the credit in her published books, not her fan fic. I know it is not plagiarism in her books, it is only the fan fiction. You can it up if you like - I was sceptical like you when I f..."Although I don't think she should have used that language, Shelly is right. She did give credit in her fanfic.
Also, none of your post have proof. That articles you are talking about, the ones that confirm it. Those are not even official articles.
Shelly wrote: "No you weren't telling him what he wanted to know. She gave credit to the authors in her fanfic. Whatever link you are looking at is full of shit. Her fanfic gave credit to the authors, she just d..."
1. Sorry, but in official cases people don't play "games".
2. Multiple links had the same information. I doubt so many people could come up with the exact same story and accusations. The evidence is there.
One of the MANY links - http://www.journalfen.net/community/b...
3.Please, most of the people on this discussion love Cassie (including me), so don't take your anger out on us. It is admirable that you are defending Cassie Clare, but the plagiarism case is a thing of the past. I suggest we just let it go.
@Daniel - I was the same. In my first post on this discussion, I fiercely rebuked the accusations that were made against Cassandra Clare. But after looking at well over 15 sites about the case, I had to conclude, that no matter how shameful, plagiarism did occur. But this was in fan fiction, so it doesn't matter. Can everyone just wind down a little bit? This was supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.
Shelly wrote: "Nurlely wrote: "Daniel wrote: "I just think its funny that people insist she plagiarized her fanfic. If she plagiarized, why was there no legal actions taken against her?I see people like to post ..."
Dear me. Why don't we start cursing people whose comment we find distasteful? For we are not in Goodreads discussion forum, but some fanfic forum, aren't we?
If you can not accept any bad information about Cassie, then you are totally not following her. Cassie's writing ability has been growing up through the years, but it does not mean that she never made any mistakes before. She did.
If she bothered to give credit to the book (as you said), why not the author? if Cassie managed to know which book she was quoting the words from, what made her disqualified the author?
And btw... we don't have hate fanclub here. You might want to suggest that on some fanfic pages.
Wtf are you talking about? What official cases? You don't even know what you're talking about do you?You know why multiple links have the same info? Cause it is the same. It's just the same bullshit getting told over and over by different people. They are all using the same articles to right their own. You keep insisting there is evidence, there is none, at all. You want to know why i'm angry? Because for some dumb fucking reason, people like to believe whatever they read on the internet. You guys are like that girl in the commercial. " I heard it from the internet, you can't lie on the internet"
When you can find actual evidence, and not some article someone wrote based on something they read some where, let me know
If you want evidence, go to Cassie's blog then. She admitted to it.It first person evidence good enough?
As much as we all love her I think we just need to calm down, in some people's cases hold our tongues and face the facts.
Sophie wrote: "If you want evidence, go to Cassie's blog then. She admitted to it.It first person evidence good enough?
As much as we all love her I think we just need to calm down, in some people's cases hold ..."
Ok let me get this straight. People are on here debating if she plagiarized or not, and posting links to the evidence. Now you say she admits it in her blog, why not just post that instead?
Because both of them were relevant.Sorry for any confusion :)
BTW Not sure which of her many blogs - I was looking her up when I came across it.
Sorry - searched and can't provide a link. Maybe just research into it. That's what I had to do.
Sophie wrote: "Because both of them were relevant.Sorry for any confusion :)
BTW Not sure which of her many blogs - I was looking her up when I came across it."
I would love to see this blog.
I have read many things on this, and not once did I see anything about her admitting it. I read a few were she denies it, and says she gave credit to the best of her knowledge.
Really? Hmm... I'll check again - maybe it was spam...
Shelly wrote: "Ok let me get this straight. People are on here debating if she plagiarized or not, and posting links to the evidence. Now you say she admits it in her blog, why not just post that instead? "Do you know that Cassie thought that Alex Pettyfer was the best Jace Wayland? That she hesitated on responding on Jamie's cast as Jace? She did it later after many people said that she was against the cast. We knew it very well because I also joined the polling.
Can you find it now on Facebook? or Cassie's tumblr? No way! Why? because it is so easy to remove something from the internet, especially when no one else bothered to quote them. And if they managed to have them quoted? People can easily accuse them of being a liar, for there is not a single trace of the evidence.
This is what you are doing now, with fire on your hair. What is it with your cursing habit? Because some dumb ass is upsetting you? And who are you? Some smart ass whose mother never taught how to discuss properly?
If you are supposedly a great defender of Cassie's works, why don't you answer why she managed to name the book but not the author?
Sophie wrote: "Really? Hmm... I'll check again - maybe it was spam..."This is the one people like to bring up a lot. It's from her fanfic, where she didn't remember the author
"Credit for the inspiration for this conception of the wizarding afterlife goes to a book called The Secret Country, alas, I no longer recall who wrote it."
Can't find it - either it was spam or what Nurlely is suggesting. Sorry for the false alarm.
Nurlely wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Ok let me get this straight. People are on here debating if she plagiarized or not, and posting links to the evidence. Now you say she admits it in her blog, why not just post that i..."Look Daniel actually posted it before I could respond. That's what she wrote in her fanfic. I don't know why she didn't name the author, you fucking idiot, i'm not her. I just said that she gave credit for the book.
Daniel wrote: "..."Credit for the inspiration for this conception of the wizarding afterlife goes to a book called The Secret Country, alas, I no longer recall who wrote it."So sad. I reckon there was no Google or internet line at Cassie's place by the time she wrote her fanfic.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Twilight (other topics)
City of Bones (other topics)
Stephenie Meyer (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
The Great Gatsby (other topics)Twilight (other topics)
City of Bones (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
F. Scott Fitzgerald (other topics)Stephenie Meyer (other topics)
Yes. That is considered plagiarism. It's why I've even seen books like Meridian by Amber Kizer cite exactly where they got bible quotes from. Others do it in a more subtle way. (Like "In the words of ______". That's considered citing your source as well and usually alleviates plagiarism accusations)
And it's plagiarism because it's a phrase from another work passed off as her own.