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A Dance with Dragons (A Song of Ice and Fire, #5)
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A Song of Ice and Fire > FINISHED: A Dance with Dragons - Spoiler Hell Within

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message 151: by Joan (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) Rhaegar's little girl, Rhaenys, had the dark hair of Dorne, like her mother. So, it's very possible that Rhaegar could produce a dark-haired son in Jon Snow. Stark traits are strong, yet four of five of Ned's children had Tully hair and features. It was menioned that Arya looked like her aunt Lyanna.


message 152: by Mach (last edited Oct 22, 2012 03:57PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mach | 1 comments Actually only Sansa looks like a Tully and of all the kids Jon resembles Ned the most. That's one of the reasons Catelyn hates him so much.


message 153: by Joan (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) Mach wrote: "Actually only Sansa looks like a Tully and of all the kids Jon resembles Ned the most. That's one of the reasons Catelyn hates him so much."

I thought that Robb, Sansa, Rickon, and Bran all had Tully red hair and that only Arya looked like Ned and John...


*Secret*Fatty* (YouknowNOTHINGJonSnow) | 10 comments I'm with Joan on this. Because Robbs red tinted beard is often described by Catelyn. Not to sure about Rickon though, I can't really recall his physical description being described in any of the books. :/ But she does use Jon's resemblence of Ned as another excuse to hate him.
Quite frankly, I despise Catelyn, and am still upset she was brought back as Stoneheart or whatever her new lame name is. She was spiteful towards Jon when in reality if she was so upset about Ned fathering a bastard then she should have been hostile towards Ned and not Jon. Then there's all the other damage she has caused to Robb and his men. Ugg, whatever, I'll stop there before I bore you all with my droll nagging.


William | 2 comments Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark? Meh I don't buy it. Personally I think Jon is Neds boy and it'll be some kind of, like father like son parallel between Ned and Robb. Only Ned, choosing honour over love, chose Catelyn over the other woman. Then that woman killed herself leaving Ned with the Baby.


message 156: by Joan (last edited Oct 22, 2012 10:49PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) William wrote: "Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark? Meh I don't buy it. Personally I think Jon is Neds boy and it'll be some kind of, like father like son parallel between Ned and Robb. Only Ned, choosing honour o..."

IDK, I have lots of reasons to believe that Jon is Lyanna's son and not Ned's. (In the show) Ned never said that Jon was his son...just that Jon was of his blood. Ned'sense of fidelity and honor to keep a promise to his dying sister.

Lyanna had been missing over a year and found dying, in a bed of blood at the Tower of Joy. In the House of the Undying, most of Dany's visions were of Starks and Targs (the three-headed dragon, Rhaegar wanted a third child to fulfill that prophecy). Most stand out to me, why were the Kingsguard not with prince Viserys when Rhaegar was killed but at the ToJ...they were there to guard the king.

R+L=J...it's speculation, sure. But it's knda fun.


William | 2 comments Joan wrote: "William wrote: "Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark? Meh I don't buy it. Personally I think Jon is Neds boy and it'll be some kind of, like father like son parallel between Ned and Robb. Only Ned, c..."

I do know what you mean and I don't doubt that it's possible. I mean who knows? I would never have believed that it was Lysa and Littlefinger who killed Jon Aryn but there you go. Besides, it may not even matter. With the personal vendetta GRRM has seemingly taken up against the Starks, for all I know Jon doesn't survive the Nights Watch Mutiny. He probably will but I Havent been able to let myself trust again since Robb Stark!


message 158: by mark (new) - rated it 4 stars

mark monday (happyendoftheworid) | 343 comments the next book will see Jon Snow: Ghost Dog.

at least i hope so! i want more warg-type activities.


message 159: by Jackie (last edited Oct 23, 2012 03:24PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jackie (thelastwolf) I'm hoping for the warg too.

Ned having a bastard is too mundane. He wouldn't have been all hush hush about it if that were the case. He was quiet to protect someone or their honor, so Jon being Lyanna's kid would make sense. Especially since Robert was hell-bent on killing all Targaryens, that baby would have been killed right then and there.
I don't think it matters who Jon's real parents were since only Ned had that info and he's too dead to talk.


message 160: by mark (new) - rated it 4 stars

mark monday (happyendoftheworid) | 343 comments yeah, the Rhaegar-Lyanna idea seems obvious to me at this point. GRRM appears to have put a lot of effort (subtle, but it is all over the books) in making this eventually be the reveal. cause he's gonna be riding the dragons with Dany and Tyrion! i hope.


message 161: by Jackie (last edited Oct 23, 2012 03:26PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jackie (thelastwolf) And for the fact that R+L=J has been so obvious, it's what's making me think that it cannot be that either. Honestly, I don't know. GRRM is not what I could ever call predictable or obvious.


message 162: by Joan (last edited Oct 23, 2012 04:29PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) GRRM is tricksy but he did say that he wouldn't change the outcome of a plotline just because readers guessed the twist.

It's just that I would love for Jon Snow to be the third head of the dragon. Robb did legimize Jon. If only Howland Reed would make a POV appearance in Winds of Winter to reveal what all transpired at the TOJ.

Though I don't think the little Lannister gargoyle is the third head. Aegon/LG is probably a Blackfyre if he's not the real Aegon.


message 163: by mark (new) - rated it 4 stars

mark monday (happyendoftheworid) | 343 comments oh, a Blackfyre! i had not even considered that.

the only reasons i'm thinking Tyrion is the 3rd head is because: (1) i really like him and want it to be so! and (2) there was some vague but hint-filled stuff that's been talked about in ADWD (and maybe earlier) about his heritage. but either i don't remember the specifics or i tuned out while reading.


message 164: by Chris , The Kingslayer (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chris  (haughtc) | 896 comments Hodor probably knows all the answers. Wouldn't you like to see his POV chapter?


message 165: by mark (new) - rated it 4 stars

mark monday (happyendoftheworid) | 343 comments but it would all just say HODOR! HODOR? HODOR!


message 166: by Chris , The Kingslayer (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chris  (haughtc) | 896 comments It's what he doesn't say that's important. Errr...


message 167: by Jim (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jim (JimMacLachlan) I sometimes wonder if authors read topics like this & change things just to screw with us - or maybe pick up ideas.


message 168: by Joan (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) I'm kinda scared of Hodor, isn't he a Frey?


message 169: by mark (new) - rated it 4 stars

mark monday (happyendoftheworid) | 343 comments i dunno. but if he is... Stoneheart stay away from Hodor!


message 170: by Chris , The Kingslayer (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chris  (haughtc) | 896 comments Yes, he is.

I'd like to see them kill enough Freys that Hodor becomes Lord of the Twins.


message 171: by Chris , The Kingslayer (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chris  (haughtc) | 896 comments Wait..that's never been confirmed, actually. Old Nan said his real name was Walder, and we just assumed that meant he was a Frey.

Because honestly, who the hell else would name a child Walder?


message 172: by Chris , The Kingslayer (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chris  (haughtc) | 896 comments Wait a damn minute. GRRM, you sly bastard....

Hodor is the third head of the dragon!


message 173: by Joan (new) - rated it 3 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) Chris wrote: "Wait a damn minute. GRRM, you sly bastard....

Hodor is the third head of the dragon!"


Then that means ran can just warg Hodor-dragon and Bran becomes the third dragonhead!


Evilynn | 36 comments Wasn't there some discussion about whether Tyrion could possibly be the third head of the dragon from the "a small man might throw a very large shadow"- line in GOT + some grumbling over whether Tyrion really could be related to the other glamorous Lannisters? Either by Cersei or Tywin, or both, I'm getting a little foggy on the details.

I'm guessing Targaryens being Targaryens Daenerys might just marry Aegon, and there's your third head, Mummer's Dragon or no. :P


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