Beyond 101 - A Discussion

[Ancestral]

Please read this blog post by Brendan Myers about the lack of books that go beyond the basics of various pagan traditions, which is in response to this post by Raven Grimassi.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Nancy]

I agree that there are way too many 101 books out there. I myself stopped buying books a long time ago. How many books do we need that list the correspondences or how to write your own BoS or list the magickal tools? What are you supposed to do once you are past the basic stuff? There aren't enough authors to point the way for the newer generation of Pagans. They are left with a "What now?" feeling after they've learned the basics. Then they wonder what's the big deal about Paganism and move on to something else.

[Ancestral]

In my opinion, there are books that go beyond the 101, it's just no-one seems terribly interested in reading them.

For my own part, I read a lot of books from university presses, folklore societies, specialist publishers (myths translated from other languages), etc, but how many are really curious to read these styles of book? Few people read the book A World Full of Gods: An Inquiry into Polytheism this group had as a book of the month, and even fewer voted for those books which dealt with the psychology of ritual when offered as an option for the book of the month. I honestly believe there just isn't the market for these books anymore, if it even existed in the first place.

[Nancy]

I have a BA in anthropology, so I'm always interested in reading about different cultures and how they view shamanism, magick and witchcraft, etc. But these are specialist books and few people outside academia read these kinds of books. If I was to mention the name Levi-Strauss people would think I was talking about blue jeans. I have been able to find some anthropologically based books on Paganism in the past few months, but they were all in the local college library.

[Ancestral]

This makes me wonder Nancy: If we were to include all those academic books (and those published outside academia that tackled more difficult or specialised topics) would the number of publications equal, or even out-strip those 101 books? The fact is you cannot find many, if any of these specialised books on your local bookstore's shelves, and often require special ordering from your library, so it may just be the appearance of an over-abudance of 101 books we are perceiving? Or is it?

[Nancy]

That's a very good question. I know that whenever I go to the bookstore it's mostly 101 books. I really have to hunt to find specialized books. But if and when I do they are never in the so-called "New Age" or "paranormal" section, like all the other Witchcraft/Wicca/Pagan books. They are in history or social sciences or some other section. I think, too, that a lot of the younger Pagans aren't particularly interested in learning the history of Paganism or about the different kinds of polytheism. They just want to learn how to cast spells or perform rituals. So the authors cater to them, since they feel these are the kinds of books that will sell.

[Nancy]

I think that the younger Pagans really need to learn their history, especially the history of the various witch trials. I've talked with some younger Pagans who shrug it off, saying that something like that could never happen here again. Many don't realize that the play they read in high school, "The Crucible" by Arthur Miller, was in response to the McCarthyism of the 1950s. Miller himself was blacklisted as a Communist. And right now there is a fundamentalist group called the DC40 who want to go to Washington and demand the government to change the name to the District of Christ. They plan to lay siege to the city from October 3rd until November 11th. They aren't just against atheists and Pagans and the like. They are also against other Christians who don't follow the same creed that they do. Yeah, we could disregard the DC40 as nutjobs, but the thing is, this kind of stuff does happen in this country. People can and do get out of hand when it comes to people of different creeds and politics. It did in 1692, in the 1950s and now in 2011, with many other incidents before. Freedom of religion may be in the Constitution, but it doesn't always happen in real life.

http://paganwiccan.about.com/b/2011/0...

[Sara]

Nancy wrote: "I think that the younger Pagans really need to learn their history, especially the history of the various witch trials. I've talked with some younger Pagans who shrug it off, saying that something ..."

Indeed, DC40 is getting a lot of press in the pagan community. Check out The Wild Hunt Blog. He's been covering and commenting on this.

There is a lot of fundamentalist pressure in the US right now in ways that aren't always obvious. And if we think the constitution protects us. . . .think again. The current conservative US Supreme Court is rather activist in its interpretations of both the laws and the constitution.

[Sara]

Ancestral wrote: "This makes me wonder Nancy: If we were to include all those academic books (and those published outside academia that tackled more difficult or specialised topics) would the number of publications ..."

I think the real question is what is considered to be an academic book. I read a great deal in the history of ancient Egypt (I have an MA in history), and have always been able to find what I'm looking for, albeit on line via Amazon or Alibris or Abe's Books. Book stores stock what sells, and it's paganism 101 that sells. Look at how many of Scott Cunningham's books, or Christopher Penczak's books can be found. There is nothing wrong with these--I've used them myself. And Christopher is a great guy, even though we disagree on some fundamentals.

The truth is that many pagans are not interested in learning in depth, IMHO. Most follow UPG. I'm OK with that, because in a sense, I do the same thing. I'm not a reconstructionist, or a purist on any level.

This is an interesting topic for discussion, I think.

[Angela]

I think there is a huge market for beyond basics reading. The problem is finding it. I have to spend time googling and asking around for some good books with real depth. I was extremely happy to find this group and go through the bookshelves to find some new reads. The frustrating part is that my local shops don't carry beyond 101. So I rely on Amazon and online shops to get the goods. I think more pagans ought to write about their personal journeys as well. Sometimes I can glean more thoughtful insight hearing about how you got to your path and your own inner ideas on theology more so than reading a practical guide.

[Nancy]

I agree with you, Sara and Angela. We don't have any local Pagan shops where I live and the only bookstores near me are Barnes & Noble and Books a Million, and they don't stock what doesn't sell. And what does sell are the 101 books. I have to go to Amazon and other online sources if I want any books beyond the basics.

I also think that more Pagans ought to write about their personal journeys, particularly the ones who didn't rely on books or the Internet to find their path. I'd like to hear how the earlier generation of Pagans, the ones like myself who found their way in the 60s and 70s, became Pagans, before the influx of books and the Internet and networking with other Pagans. I know that Margot Adler and Starhawk have covered that in previous books, but I'd like to hear the more in depth stories.

[Ancestral]

Angela wrote: "I was extremely happy to find this group and go through the bookshelves to find some new reads. ..."

It would be great if all members put their favourite books or books they would like to read up on the "to be read" shelves of the group, especially those that go beyond 101 so they can be included in the draw for the Book of the Month and/or be brought to the attention of others also looking for more depth.

[Ylang]

The biggest recommendation in terms of beyond the basics I can make is to get yourselves a copy of the excellent Wicca Magickal Beginnings (which is a history book, not a beginners book as the name might confuse you into thinking). Its a book which both beginners and very experienced folks will get a lot from.

[Ancestral]

Hello Marlene: When you've finished reading A World Full Of Gods: An Inquiry Into Polytheism , perhaps you will consider adding your comments to the thread on the book, which can be found here?