Are you an editor? Or are you looking for a freelance editor?

[Tricia]

Georgina wrote: Must admit, the idea of my own personal editor who follows me round, editing my posts on facebook, goodreads and my blog, sounds pretty damn good.

I think this would be a tireless job, for sure. Though if the pay is good enough...
:)

[[deleted user]]

Tricia wrote: " Georgina wrote: Must admit, the idea of my own personal editor who follows me round, editing my posts on facebook, goodreads and my blog, sounds pretty damn good.

I think this would be a tireles..."

Not a labour of love then? :)

Oh, I received the assessment for 'Sorrow's Child' from my developmental editor and my beta readers are working on their feedback now too. I'm busy with rewrites.

I hope you have your red pen ready as my dev ed tells me although my writing and grammar are good my punctuation is not! Lots of errant commas! I'm trying to figure them out now, but some will slip through...:)

Hoping to get it to you as soon as possible (although I'm taking on board each and every comment so I have a fair bit of work to do).

Looking forward to sending you the manuscript when it's ready!

Thanks again!

Georgina.

[Sarah]

I am probably not the right person to come to Eric's defense :) but I'm going to risk saying that I've run into the temperament and attitude many (many!) times before over the years in various capacities. Eric's got a lot of skills that are valuable to SOME people, NOT ALL. Additionally, the personality meshing or clashing is a totally personal and subjective situation so for SOME people, Eric's rigid and inflexible views are precisely what they WANT AND NEED (not for me but I'm just one in ...how many people on this planet now? 8 billion?)

Some people need someone who won't be swayed and who will hold them accountable, will hold their work to a specific standard, will hold fast in the face of writerly claims to artistic license. Not all people need this but some people really need this because they are unable to become objective when they examine their own work. In fact, I'd risk saying a lot of new authors are in desperate need of this kind of editorial assistance. I still maintain it is the author's job, NOT the editor's, to rewrite. The editor should merely advise, not alter the text; otherwise, they should write their own book.

Bottom line I think there is an editor for every writer and a writing style for every editor. Finding the match is practically as hard to do as dating (LOL) Hey, reminds me of a my FAVORITE article on getting published, Dating Your Publisher. If you've never read this LOL hilarious piece by a Brit who actually gets it (and worked for a staunch old House for years) check it out here:

http://www.kitwhitfield.com/publisherdating.html

My favorite a propos quote from this is:

You say: 'I self-publish/post on the internet, and I've had some good feedback.'
Dating equivalent: 'The prostitutes I sleep with tell me I'm good in bed.'

(( wry grin ))

-sry
p.s. I am deliberately NOT proofreading this post :) I tend to correct obvious typos as I type and I type 100 wpm while thinking about 180 wpm so invariably I have typos my mind cannot slow down enough to even comprehend, let alone catch as I type. My finished books, however, tend to have no typos surviving. If you see one, it's there on purpose (haha)

[[deleted user]]

Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "I am probably not the right person to come to Eric's defense :) but I'm going to risk saying that I've run into the temperament and attitude many (many!) times before over the years in various capa..."

A very, very funny article. Love the lines, it made me laugh and cringe at the same time.

:) Georgina

[Katy]

Yes, I especially thought this as appropriate to this discussion:
You say: 'I've studied literature and have a degree/qualification/teaching cert in it.'
Dating equivalent: 'I'm good at relationships - I've watched a lot of romantic comedies.'
Studying and doing are totally different things - and if you don't seem aware of that, it increases the chances that your work isn't good.

[[deleted user]]

Katy wrote: "Yes, I especially thought this as appropriate to this discussion:
You say: 'I've studied literature and have a degree/qualification/teaching cert in it.'
Dating equivalent: 'I'm good at relationsh..."

Very true.

[Barbara]

Katy wrote: "Yes, I especially thought this as appropriate to this discussion:
You say: 'I've studied literature and have a degree/qualification/teaching cert in it.'
Dating equivalent: 'I'm good at relationsh..."

Agree too... But I'm a firm believer in the 10000hours rule! ;-) (http://www.squidoo.com/10000-hour-rule)
The self-taught everything! :-D

[Nora]

Amy wrote: "I'm working on my website right now (it should be completed very soon), but the address is:

www.theeyesforediting.com

I will be adding a very unique service to it as well once I get all of th..."

Hi, Amy! Your blog looks fantastic. :) The header is beautiful!

[[deleted user]]

Barbara wrote: "Katy wrote: "Yes, I especially thought this as appropriate to this discussion:
You say: 'I've studied literature and have a degree/qualification/teaching cert in it.'
Dating equivalent: 'I'm good ..."

We started teaching our daughter to read at six, by eight she'd read the entire Harry Potter series. By nine she was reading YA.

I've met an enormous amount of self-taught photographers whose technical knowledge is far greater than my own. 10000 hours plus a passion for the chosen subject.

[[deleted user]]

I've got to go and harvest veggies again, so if I don't reply to anything for the next couple of hours...:)

[[deleted user]]

I have to drop this link in. It's hilarious!
"So You Want to Write a Novel"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fc-c...

[Tricia]

Georgina wrote: We started teaching our daughter to read at six, by eight she'd read the entire Harry Potter series. By nine she was reading YA.

I hope it's this way with my daughter! She loves to read now (she's 2) and I'm really hoping to keep encouraging that. I have saved a lot of my favorite works for her to read when she's older.

[[deleted user]]

Tricia wrote: "Georgina wrote: We started teaching our daughter to read at six, by eight she'd read the entire Harry Potter series. By nine she was reading YA.

I hope it's this way with my daughter! She loves ..."

I did too.

She loves 'Animorphs' now and 'The Vampire's Assistant' series. Unfortunately those reading skills mean that she's pretty much read all of my novel, and all of my short stories, by sneaking looks at my manuscripts when I'm not watching. She's also already writing chapter books. She'll be giving me advice as a writer when she's older. I can see it now...:)

[[deleted user]]

Eric wrote: "Sarah/Georgina: Normally, I couldn't give a, but I felt like you both kind of jumped me when I first posted here, talking about "dodgy degrees" and claiming I insulted you when I said life experien..."

Not jumping on you. Not discrediting your degree. I think you obviously have the life experience as well as the degrees behind your name. :) It was a reaction to your reaction to Sarah's posting of her resume listing her skills, including her life experience and work as a legal secretary.
Peace. I'm sure you are an excellent editor. As I said, the more of you the merrier. We need you all!!

Georgina.

[[deleted user]]

And as I said, I have a degree too. So I'm certainly not denigrating degrees either. Except perhaps those honorary ones (not the honour year) that they give to celebrities? People with no prior studies in, or necessarily an interest in, the gifted degree. Oh and in the Art world, those that smooze their way through, 'Emperor's New Clothes' type of thing. Now that really gets my goat.

[Sarah]

Georgina wrote: "It was a reaction to your reaction to Sarah's posting of her resume listing her skills, including her life experience and work as a legal secretary."

Actually, it was Sara (the Atchless) not me, so unless there's another Sarah (with an "h") that typo has implications that could lead one astray o_O

Also, @Barb, we weren't discussing the self-taught (and although I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, I'm pretty much self-taught on all of the 8 programming languages and various computer OS's I know and worked on for over 20 years--we learned "at the speed of the internet" back in the 90s. Or rather we learned or we were left behind!) We were discussing someone going to school to study poetry and literature thereby considering themselves more-qualified than another person who had "random life experiences" -- such as, working in a job which requires an excessively high level of attention to detail. School-taught theory versus hands on experience. I think they both have a place, but "ne'er the twain shall meet" eh? (OMG I really sound Canadian lately, sorry!)

-sry

[[deleted user]]

Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "Georgina wrote: "It was a reaction to your reaction to Sarah's posting of her resume listing her skills, including her life experience and work as a legal secretary."

Actually, it was Sara (the At..."

I was just coming back to fix the spelling. I meant Sara. Aren't you both legal secretaries too? Or she was and you are?

I think Eric is also confusing the names and thread posts, and perhaps missing some altogether. But I've just read back over them and there was no doubt he responded to Sara's resume post. We reacted to his post.

But yes, again, peace to all. I just posted this link but I'll post it again. It's a good laugh. I'm sure Eric, as an editor would appreciate the humour too: "So You Want to Write a Novel" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fc-c...

[[deleted user]]

Eric wrote: "Fair enough all. Perhaps I should have been about 30% less touchy and my apologies."

My apologies to you too, Eric. It always takes two or more sides being touchy to make extended touchiness (if that makes any sense at all).
:) Georgina.

[Jenn]

wow, have i missed ALOT on this thread.
Glad to see that everything seems to be squashed now though.
All of our members here are great and I'm happy to see that everyone was able to solve the matter in a very polite way as I am sure that no harm was meant on either side.

Texting and emailing can come across every differently than speaking to one another face to face and some things seemed to get lost in translation.

As for editing your comments on here, I am the biggest felon when it comes to punctuation so I am sure I am giving ALL the editors a heart attack.
:)

[[deleted user]]

Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "wow, have i missed ALOT on this thread.
Glad to see that everything seems to be squashed now though.
All of our members here are great and I'm happy to see that everyone was able to solve the matte..."

It's very true about the texting coming across differently than conversation. And as for punctuation, I've been told by my developmental editor that punctuation, especially the use of commas, is not my strong point. I sprinkle them in for good measure, and they fall randomly on the page...:) Georgina.

[Jenn]

Georgina wrote: "Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "wow, have i missed ALOT on this thread.
Glad to see that everything seems to be squashed now though.
All of our members here are great and I'm happy to see that eve..."

Girl, there's really no need to edit your comments on here, lol.
This is a fun group not a novel.
I've made some serious errors in here before like meaning to type Shirt and well, I left out the r.
Made for an interesting comment that still finds its way in conversations sometimes, lol.

[[deleted user]]

Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "wow, have i missed ALOT on this thread.
Glad to see that everything seems to be squashed now though.
All of our members here are great and I'm happ..."

The personal editor that follows me around goodreads, facebook and my blog, editing my posts and checking my atrocious spelling, still sounds like a mighty fine idea...

[[deleted user]]

Kelly posted this on 'The Misconception of Editing' thread. It's absolutely hilarious. I'm sure all the editors in this thread will appreciate it. "The the impotence of proofreading" by Taylor Mali.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OonDPG...

[Sarah]

Georgina wrote: "I was just coming back to fix the spelling. I meant Sara. Aren't you both legal secretaries too? Or she was and you are?"

Just the opposite, Georgina - I was (in the 1980s) and she is (now).

Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "Girl, there's really no need to edit your comments on here, lol.
This is a fun group not a novel."

LOL and I'll note that's precisely what I said earlier. I'll proofread my novels, not my posts--or I'll never have time to write novels! I love that you come into the middle of the conversation and say the same thing Oh Moderatrix Jenn :) But Georgina went onto say the hilarious remark of the evening:

"The personal editor that follows me around goodreads, facebook and my blog, editing my posts and checking my atrocious spelling, still sounds like a mighty fine idea..."

hee hee hee. Okay, I want one. Where's the store that sells these? :)

-sry
p.s. I do not proofread but I do actually edit my posts--I constantly think of the missing words I left out because, you know, I never say enough the first time!! LOL

p.p.s. Eric I'm very glad there are no hard feelings. You are entitled to your opinions and your preferences on how "it should be done" but so is everyone else. I think the best part of the human species is the fact we are all so different. I write about automatons (a la Huxley's Brave New World; I don't want to LIVE with them!

[Barbara]

Eric wrote: "I hear you, Sarah, Georgina. Let's just all get obscenely rich and famous writing the next Great American Novel(/romance/thriller/mystery/script/porno)! Then we can pull an E.E. Cummings and set ou..."

Yay!

[Katy]

Georgina wrote: "Kelly posted this on 'The Misconception of Editing' thread. It's absolutely hilarious. I'm sure all the editors in this thread will appreciate it. "The the impotence of proofreading" by Taylor Mali..."

This was hilarious! Even my husband laughed, although he didn't get half of it since he wasn't listening as closely as I was.

[[deleted user]]

Eric wrote: "I hear you, Sarah, Georgina. Let's just all get obscenely rich and famous writing the next Great American Novel(/romance/thriller/mystery/script/porno)! Then we can pull an E.E. Cummings and set ou..."

Yep! It's a plan (but mine will have to be an Aussie book obviously).
:) Georgina.

[[deleted user]]

Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "Georgina wrote: "I was just coming back to fix the spelling. I meant Sara. Aren't you both legal secretaries too? Or she was and you are?"

Just the opposite, Georgina - I was (in the 1980s) and sh..."

Bet J.K Rolling has one (grumble grumble)...

[[deleted user]]

Katy wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Kelly posted this on 'The Misconception of Editing' thread. It's absolutely hilarious. I'm sure all the editors in this thread will appreciate it. "The the impotence of proofreadin..."

This one's great too. The dead-pan voices and the new 'writer's' unshakable confidence are really funny.

"I've written the first page already. It's really awesome."

So you Want to Write a Novel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fc-c...

[Katy]

Georgina wrote: "So you Want to Write a Novel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fc-crEF.."

Can someone send me this link via PM? Too sleepy to watch it now and prob. will forget otherwise

[[deleted user]]

Katy wrote: "Georgina wrote: "So you Want to Write a Novel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9fc-crEF.."

Can someone send me this link via PM? Too sleepy to watch it now and prob. will forget otherwise"

Will do.:) Georgina.

[Jenn]

Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "Georgina wrote: "I was just coming back to fix the spelling. I meant Sara. Aren't you both legal secretaries too? Or she was and you are?"

Just the opposite, Georgina - I was (in the 1980s) and sh..."

Lol, it was almost like stepping in poo.
I was like, whoa what's this?
Glad it's all good now. Right? Right!??

[[deleted user]]

Jenn aka Texas Long Hair wrote: "Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "Georgina wrote: "I was just coming back to fix the spelling. I meant Sara. Aren't you both legal secretaries too? Or she was and you are?"

Just the opposite, G..."

!!!:):)

[Sarah]

Eric wrote: "I hear you, Sarah, Georgina. Let's just all get obscenely rich and famous writing the next Great American Novel(/romance/thriller/mystery/script/porno)! Then we can pull an E.E. Cummings and set ou..."

hahahah, that's so funny for you to say b/c i actually do think e.e.cummings when i deliberately type in all lc letters :) see? we are of like mind on somethings!

-sry

[Sara]

Sarah, the Webbiegrrl Writer wrote: "Just the opposite, Georgina - I was (in the 1980s) and she is now..."

Let's see, I did Paralegal work from '89 to '94, moved up here and did other stuff but did more Paralegal work from late'99 to early '01. (Lawyer had addiction problems and tried to take them out on me so I quit.) I became disabled in '05 and finally won my disability in '10. Now I do this. :)

Yup, "we" talked it out and agreed to disagree. By "we" I meant, Sarah, Georgina and Eric since I only made the one defending post and have been dealing with more RL. (My mom is needing more care now, she's not doing well. :( )

Loved the Taylor Mali video! Thank you for sharing it with us, Georgina! (Your name is so pretty.)

Back to catching up. AGAIN.

Sara the Atchless

[J.A.]

Hey people - been off the radar for a bit and missed most of this but can I just say that it is one of the fabulous things about this forum that we can all disagree and agree to differ without it turning into a massive firestorm? Sign of having top-quality people on board. All, I salute you!!

Sara, hope you're Mum's not too poorly - thoughts are with you.

J,A;C*&!

hehehehe

[[deleted user]]

J.A. wrote: "Hey people - been off the radar for a bit and missed most of this but can I just say that it is one of the fabulous things about this forum that we can all disagree and agree to differ without it t..."

Hey J,A:C&! You, speak, my, language,,,

And yes, I agree, it's a sign of the calibre of people in this group (and the management of the group itself) that differences can be expressed but peace reigns in the end.

[Justin]

I see editing in two different ways. First, after you've wrote something edit edit edit! It's always good to do it yourself first this way you can make it easier for another person and to get rid of basic errors you may have missed and to change something you may not like. Edit yourself over and over to the point where your sick of your own writing but this way you know that you feel comfortable in what you have.
Second, when you have an editor proofread and correct stuff for you make sure they are not only reliable but that they will in fact give you advice in helping you make any errors. I personally had editors make corrections only to find out they only corrected what I told them to not anything else they happen to find, so always make sure your editor will do their job at that, proofing and correcting anything that doesn't look right.

[[deleted user]]

Justin wrote: "I see editing in two different ways. First, after you've wrote something edit edit edit! It's always good to do it yourself first this way you can make it easier for another person and to get rid o..."


Re: what to expect in the way of editorial input from publishers.
http://publishing.about.com/od/BookEd...

"Manuscript From Submission Through the Editorial Process: Basic Stages

The author submits the manuscript to the editor according to the contractual due date (this is sometimes referred to as the first pass manuscript).

The editor takes a first pass at the manuscript and makes general comments. These can be requests for: additional text, cutting text, clarifying information, moving chapters around for the sake of narrative flow, etc. The revisions in the manuscript stage may be handled on the printed manuscript, electronically--or a combination of both. In any case, care is taken that there's one master electronic copy, so revisions aren't duplicated or lost. The editor then returns the manuscript to the author.

The author revises the manuscript per the editor's instructions and resubmits it (the second pass). If artwork is expected from the author, it's likely expected in full by this time (note: there are usually guidelines as to how art is submitted, to ensure electronic art goes in its correct place and original art comes back intact).

The editor line-edits the second manuscript--that is, he or she goes over it with a fine-tooth comb and asks for additional corrections, clarifications, and comments on artwork (if applicable); the editor returns the second manuscript to author.

The author makes all corrections, answers all queries and responds to all comments. A clean, final manuscript and matching disk (plus all final art, if applicable) goes to the editor.

If the editor is happy with the manuscript at this stage, it is considered to be "accepted" and it moves on to be copyedited. Being "accepted" also means the author's "payment upon acceptance" check can finally be triggered! (Note that for some non-fiction books, acceptance is also contingent upon legal review of the manuscript)."

[[deleted user]]

I'm going to post this link too. I think it's great advice.

"Ten Mistakes Writers Don’t See (But Can Easily Fix When They Do)"
http://www.holtuncensored.com/hu/the-...

[Katy]

Georgina wrote: "I'm going to post this link too. I think it's great advice.

"Ten Mistakes Writers Don’t See (But Can Easily Fix When They Do)"
http://www.holtuncensored.com/hu/the-..."

That is a wonderful article - thanks!! I forwarded a link to all the authors with whom I work, and posted it on Facebook, then subscribed to the blog :-)

[[deleted user]]

Katy wrote: "Georgina wrote: "I'm going to post this link too. I think it's great advice.

"Ten Mistakes Writers Don’t See (But Can Easily Fix When They Do)"
http://www.holtuncensored.com/hu/the-..."
..."

It's great isn't it. I found it back in 2006, printed it out and lost the original internet site. I went looking for it the other day and found it again.

Crutch words in particular, can be so funny to find. You'd think they'd be obvious, overused words, but I've found some doozies in my manuscripts.

:) Georgina. (I posted it on my facebook page too)

[Katy]

Whole crutch actions - in Kristen Britain's Green Rider series, her characters all lick their lips all the time. Now, the first instance I was like "Hey, nifty idea! That really shows how uncertain she feels!" By the 875874th time, I was like "Damn, I gotta go there and invest in ChapStick, 'cause apparently this is the only way these people show any form of emotion!" I mean, seriously - uncertainly - lick lips; fear - lick lips; lying - lick lips; excitement - lick lips ... over and over and over again - you could turn it into a drinking game! "Hey, everyone, someone just licked their lips again - you all have to slam a shot!!"

Flat writing is something I run up against a lot - wanting to tell and not show. Another is repetition - a couple of the books I've worked on recently have had a lot of repetition. While I can recommend it be toned down, at the end of the day it's not my book and there is only so much I can do about stuff like that. But this article is gold - hopefully people will get a lot of info out of it!

[[deleted user]]

Katy wrote: "Whole crutch actions - in Kristen Britain's Green Rider series, her characters all lick their lips all the time. Now, the first instance I was like "Hey, nifty idea! That really shows how uncertai..."

I just received the assessment and suggested edits back from my developmental editor. Apparently I have a thing for droplets (I was totally unaware of this) and my main character stuffs her face far too often. I also have a few infodumps and several small plot holes (that are luckily, easily remedied).

I'm slowly going through the manuscript now. The dev ed's comments are giving me quite a chuckle. She's absolutely spot on.

[Katy]

Heh. I try to make my comments amusing if I can when I provide edits - no need to make it dull, right? LOL

[[deleted user]]

Katy wrote: "Heh. I try to make my comments amusing if I can when I provide edits - no need to make it dull, right? LOL"

Absolutely! It was exactly what I was looking for. The wry comments only added to Teresa's professional approach. (Teresa Edgerton, dev ed and GR Fantasy author)

Finding all you wonderful editors has made me determined to continue the indie way. Now I can produce a highly polished book. And my cover artist just contacted me to say she has some preliminary sketches for me to see!

[Justin]

Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "I see editing in two different ways. First, after you've wrote something edit edit edit! It's always good to do it yourself first this way you can make it easier for another person a..."

Way to out do me there Georgina lol! Im just kidding, good article. Editing is one of those things that really doesnt have to be complex as long as you know the right people!

[[deleted user]]

Justin wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "I see editing in two different ways. First, after you've wrote something edit edit edit! It's always good to do it yourself first this way you can make it easier for..."

I'm alright at it up to a certain point. I read all my sentences, paragraphs then chapters aloud, over and over until I've got the flow right. I pick up problems that way.

But I find if I have rewritten something many times, my eyes glaze over when I search for errors. Also it's not just typos and spelling mistakes, its also the dreaded plot holes, crutch words, shallow characters etc.

I love editors!

[Justin]

Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "I see editing in two different ways. First, after you've wrote something edit edit edit! It's always good to do it yourself first this way you can mak..."

Thats what i did, I looked it over so many times i missed simple mistakes like misspellings and double words, but not only did I miss it but the publishing company kept it..idiots lol. I also make sure that its clear what im talking about, i tend to describe things to a point where you think you know but its not totally clear so i try and touch it up a bit so its more understandable.

[[deleted user]]

Justin wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "I see editing in two different ways. First, after you've wrote something edit edit edit! It's always good to do it yourself first thi..."

I have a tendency to over describe. :)