Supernatural Fiction Readers discussion
Common reads
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What are we going to read in this group?
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Werner
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Sep 01, 2018 05:51AM
The poll is now up, with Black Creek Crossing and Progeny of the Adder as our choices, at this link: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1... . It will run through Sept. 16. I'l try to get a general invitation to vote on it out to all members by tomorrow.
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Looks like Black Creek Crossing is winning so far. Happy me--ghostlit is my thing. However, there's still a little time to vote for your fave!
Black Creek Crossing jumped into an early lead in the poll (which has now closed), and kept it all the way through. With 26 votes cast, it won with 19, compared to 7 for Progeny of the Adder. So starting on Oct. 1, those who want to join in the read this time will be reading Black Creek Crossing!
Last night, our fellow group member Mark Lawicki and I were commenting on his review of Stephen's King's
'Salem's Lot (which, despite my interest in vampire fiction, I've never read --go figure!). The idea came up of suggesting it as a book for our group's common read next year. I usually put the poll up early in September, and it's a fairly long time until then. But this thread stays open for suggestions year-around, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and mention it now.Granted, we already did a common read of a Stephen King novel --Joyland, in 2016. There are so many different supernatural fiction writers out there that one could legitimately argue against reading any of them twice in three years. But one could also argue that, in fairness to King, Salem's Lot is a much-better known and more popular work than Joyland, and probably more accurately representative of the quality of his writing overall. (And, of course, the decision would be made by majority vote of the group, not imposed from on high! :-) )
Salem's Lot sounds like a good candidate for our voting list. How many selections do we usually have to choose from? I have a competing interest in ghostlit, so I will be thinking about other books to propose!
Deb wrote: "How many selections do we usually have to choose from?"Good question, Deb! I've gone back over the polls, over the years since we started doing annual common reads as an accepted given, and for the last three years we've only had two selections in each poll, because not many suggestions were made. On the plus side, that means the winner will command a clear majority. In the three years before that, though, we had more selections: six in 2013 (personally, I'm against having more than six) and five in 2014 and 2015. That makes the voting results more scattered, but may offer options to interest a greater range of readers.
Deb wrote: "I have a competing interest in ghostlit, so I will be thinking about other books to propose!"One ghost-themed book that's on my to-read shelf (and the library where I work has a copy) is The Ghost of Thomas Kempe by Penelope Lively. I've heard good things about that one; so I'd be up for a common read of it, if enough members of the group are interested and choose it.
That sounds good to me. Our public library system has two copies in circulation,
Rosemarie wrote: "That sounds good to me. Our public library system has two copies in circulation,"We'll put that one in the poll this fall too, then --unless Deb finds a ghost-themed book that's more intriguing (?).
I’m up for anything the group decides. My previous post probably cut me off. But I was going to ask if there were any supernatural genres the group hasn’t explored before?
Mark, good question! We started doing common reads in February 2009, and have (theoretically) done 19 of them. (One only had one person who took part.) At first, we tried doing one every three months, but that got to the point where it didn't work very well --people got burned out on the concept. (Hence the one-person fiasco.) By browsing this folder: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group... , you can in effect see a list of what books we've read so far. (Some books have both a regular and a spoiler discussion thread; but since Goodreads introduced spoiler tags to mask spoilers in comments, we don't need to do that anymore.)Nine of the 19 reads have been books about ghosts, revenants or haunted houses. Four have been about witchcraft, sorcery or Satanism (I counted Black Creek Crossing in both the ghostly and witchcraft categories). Two focused on vampires; and the rest are hard to classify --they were short story collections, urban fantasy books that featured more than one sort of magical or supernatural character, or just tales that don't easily fit into a convenient sub-genre.
We've never done any books focused on dragons, mer-folk, or the Fae, nor anything focused on angels or demons (although I don't typically get into the latter kind of thing myself). Werewolves (and other shape-shifters) would also be entitled to complain that they've been underrepresented. Ceese in Sue Dent's Never Ceese is a werewolf (the male lead is a vampire), and werewolves are present in City of Bones; but as far as our reads go, that's about it for the shape-shifers.
I have three candidates:House of Small Shadows by Adam Nevill - Horrific inanimate objects
Long Lankin by Lindsey Barraclough Cursed places and a monster
Curfew by Phil Rickman Nature based horror
Holly, I've just finished reading (and liking) your reviews of all three of those. I'd never heard of any of these authors nor their books; so this is another example of how Goodreads is a great place for learning about books you might never discover otherwise! Any one of these sounds like it could be a worthy read.2013 was the first year that we settled into our present pattern of reading one book per year as a (voluntary) common read. That year, we had six books in the poll. (Personally, I'm reluctant to have more than six, because I think too many choices tends to scatter out the votes so much it's hard to get a majority, or at least much of a plurality.) In 2014-15, we had five. For the years after that, we only had two. So the number of suggestions has varied. We've never had this many this early in the year, though. (We won't post the poll until the beginning of September.)
Right now, we have five suggestions. Holly, between now and September, it might be worthwhile to consider which one of your three that you consider the best possibility. That might allow more scope to consider suggestions from other people (depending on whether or not we actually get any more). You can always suggest one or both of the others in other years. It's also theoretically possible to suggest a voluntary common read before the annual one in October, if enough people want to do it. (I'd be hard pressed to squeeze one in myself, but others might have freer reading schedules.)
I'll leave it up to you, Werner; you have a better idea of what the group would prefer.Those three were the best horror genre books I've read in the past couple of years. I think they are under-read and under-appreciated and would like to share them with people who would enjoy them. I've been reading out of the mainstream for a long time, so I've found quite a few of these gems.
Thank you for the "likes"!
Holly wrote: "I'll leave it up to you, Werner; you have a better idea of what the group would prefer.Those three were the best horror genre books I've read in the past couple of years. I think they are under-r..."
Well, we might put all three of them in the poll, depending on how many suggestions we get. We'll see what happens closer to September.
I wouldn't claim that I necessarily have a good idea of what the group might prefer, though. :-) This is a very large, very diverse group with all kinds of individual tastes; most of us don't interact very much, in or out of the group, and probably different subsets of the membership vote in the poll in any given year. So I'm usually just as surprised as anybody else by the poll results!
You're welcome on the "likes!" Reading reviews is my favorite thing to do on Goodreads, next to writing them; and I figure that if I enjoyed reading a review, the person who took the time and thought to write it deserves to know that.
I'm fine with The Ghost of Thomas Kempe as the ghostlit representative since several people have expressed interest in it. The reviews are generally good, and I haven't read that one, so that's always a good thing!I do think we read a demon book. It took place in England and had to do with the proposed seizure of common land and village corruption. I sort of remember an underground room where various nefarious deeds occurred. Does that sound familiar, Werner? Oh, and there was a dog. I'm always about the dog.
Yes, Deb, the book you're describing is Afternoon of an Autocrat by Norah Lofts (the American edition was titled The Devil in Clevely). That was one of two reads we offered as alternate choices in October 2012 (the only time we've done that, but the circumstances were unusual). When I wrote message 466, I counted that one in the Satanism category. It doesn't depict any characters/figures that we could point to as literal demons (or angels); but it definitely does depict actual demonic power at work, and countervailing Divine power.
Werner wrote: "Yes, Deb, the book you're describing is Afternoon of an Autocrat by Norah Lofts (the American edition was titled The Devil in Clevely). That was one of two reads we offered as alterna..."Right, right! That elusive title was bugging me. Now I can resume my peaceful existence. Thanks.
I know the feeling, Deb. :-) You're welcome!
I want to thank Werner and everyone who responded to my initial query about the breadth and coverage of the Supernatural group reads thus far. I will be happy to read whatever the group decides. I admitted that my own preference is the vampire genre, but I also enjoy stumbling upon under-appreciated gems from other genres. Holly, thank you for your story suggestions. I will definitely follow up on them for myself. :)
No problem, Mark! Just to clarify (for anyone reading the thread who might not be aware of this point), everyone in the group is invited and encouraged to take part in our group reads, but they're always purely voluntary; taking part isn't a requirement for staying in the group. (I usually participate myself; but I didn't for the 2011 one, because I had too much going on in my offline life, and before that, towards the end of the time when we were trying to do them every few months, there were one or two that I sat out.) So, no one will make you take part --but the more folks who do, the better! :-)
Werner wrote: "Deb wrote: "I have a competing interest in ghostlit, so I will be thinking about other books to propose!"One ghost-themed book that's on my to-read shelf (and the library where I work has a copy)..."
This one looks good to me too!
We usually start seriously brainstorming about what to read together in October by around the beginning of August, and suggestions are often slow in coming in. This year, though, we already had five ideas on the table by February! So far, the lineup is: Curfew by Phil Rickman; The Ghost of Thomas Kempe by Penelope Lively; House of Small Shadows by Adam Nevill; Long Lankin by Lindsey Barraclough; and 'Salem's Lot by Stephen King.I won't post the poll until the beginning of September. So, if you have another suggestion, or want to offer any more feedback on the ideas proposed so far, there's still time!
This looks like a great list! The only book I've read is Long Lankin. I'm looking forward to the poll!
The poll is now up, at this link: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/1... ; it will run through Sept. 15. (I've also sent a broadcast message to all members of the group, inviting them to vote.) We'll see what the response is; I'm hoping for a good rate of participation this time. :-)
With 30 votes cast altogether, Salem's Lot is our poll winner, with 11 votes. (The Ghost of Thomas Kempe came in as the runner-up with seven votes, while House of Small Shadows was a close third with six. With three votes apiece, Long Lankin and Curfew tied for last place.) We appreciate every one who voted, and hope we'll have good participation in next month's read! (I plan to take part myself, though I didn't vote for the winner.) I'll plan to have the discussion thread up by the day's end on Oct. 1.
Interesting! The Ghost of Thomas Kempe was the early leader (and got my vote).I don't have much experience with vamp-lit though I did read Twilight. And I admit that I used to rush home from school, slap together a bologna sandwich, and tune into the latest episode of Dark Shadows. Anyone else remember Barnabas?
Anyhow, Stephen King, here we come!
The Ghost of Thomas Kempe was my pick, too; but the King book pulled into the lead before very long, and stayed ahead.Deb wrote: "Anyone else remember Barnabas?"
Yes; I was a Dark Shadows fan too, back in the day (I was in junior high and high school). :-) Back then, the only vampire fiction I'd read was Les Whitten's Progeny of the Adder and a kid's adaptation of Dracula. So when I decided, in the mid-70s, to write my own vampire novel, Barnabas and Co. was the biggest influence on my own approach to the mythos. I deliberately didn't read very much other vampire fiction in the years that I was thinking about and actually writing my book (and the writing itself took 20 years), since I didn't want to be overly influenced by others. Since then, I've read more, but still not really a whole lot; my "vampires" bookshelf here on Goodreads (https://www.goodreads.com/review/list... ) still only has 28 books on it. So, Salem's Lot will make a solid addition to that shelf!
Deb wrote: "Interesting! The Ghost of Thomas Kempe was the early leader (and got my vote).I don't have much experience with vamp-lit though I did read Twilight. And I admit that I used to rush home from scho..." Yes! I did that, too! A few years ago, I tried watching the reruns on Hulu and was bored silly! I never made it through more than about 10 shows. I detested Twilight and couldn't get through whichever book it was that the girl mourned her way on and on. I made my friend tell me how it ended. Couldn't do the movies, either, not even with Edward and Jacob being so gorgeous. Just skipped to the end to see what happened to the baby. Oops, sorry, I'm sure you weren't asking for all that!
I've never tried to watch the reruns (actually, as far as I know, they were never syndicated in any of the areas where I lived); but to be honest, looked at in retrospect, Dark Shadows was never that brilliantly written or plotted, and the live taping often played havoc with the production values. (And reruns, of course, lose the suspense factor.) At the time, though, there was hardly anything supernatural offered on TV at all; so it struck a responsive chord with those of us who like that sort of thing!The Twilight Saga arouses fierce reactions on both sides; many readers absolutely love it and others as passionately detest it, to the point that discussions of it in some forums threaten to degenerate into civil war. (We've never had a war here, though we might have had if my innocent suggestion, back in 2008 when I was more naïve and knew next to nothing about the series, of doing the first book as a common read had been adopted!) Personally, I liked both the books and the movies a lot; but when I encounter different opinions, I enjoy comparing them, rather than reaching for grenades and a flame thrower. :-)
One point that's worth making in this context, though, is that although Dark Shadows, the vampire novels of Anne Rice, and the Twilight Saga are all very different works, they share one key commonality: they all represent (and the first two actually started) a major trend in modern vampire fiction and drama of "humanizing" vampires --making them actual persons with a mind and free will, a personality, and a capability of having positive emotions and making ethical decisions about how they handle their need for blood. That's in contrast to the older, classical tradition in which becoming a vampire completely annihilates the subject's human personality and ethics, transforming him/her into a monstrous cipher with no traits except for malevolent cunning, blood thirst and desire to dominate. From what I know of Salem's Lot, King hews strictly to the older traditional approach.
Some vampire fans prefer the classical tradition, while some (including myself --though I can appreciate good writing from either camp!) prefer the newer approach. That can make for interesting discussions, as evidenced by our group's earlier common read of Interview with the Vampire (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... ).
Werner wrote: "I've never tried to watch the reruns (actually, as far as I know, they were never syndicated in any of the areas where I lived); but to be honest, looked at in retrospect, Dark Shadows was never th..." Werner, you are such a great moderator! I love that you are peacemaker, I mean to be one, too, and hope I didn't stir any ill will with my comment. Flame throwers and grenades! Ha ha! Not me! Deb, I certainly hope I didn't come across as difficult in any way. I actually think I am the only person I know that didn't love the Twilight series. I'm a huge fan of Mercy Thompson and I love her vampire friend. He's still quite human, while some of his cohorts are definitely ... not! I haven't read very many vampire books. I'm willing to try Salem's Lot, I didn't vote for it either, but by now, I have no idea which one I did vote for!
Georgann, thanks for your kind words! No, you didn't stir up any ill will in this quarter. :-)
Haha! Fun discussion, guys!I saw a Dark Shadows episode recently on some network station. All those long, meaningful looks on Barnabas's face. As a kid I thought how profound. Now they're cringe-worthy. And I vowed I would name my firstborn Angelique. (Actually, my firstborn's name is Hillary. Oh, well.)
I sort of liked the first book in the Twilight series but didn't feel compelled to read any others. I found the Team Jacob phenom funny (though I admit he is cute). My daughter explained the rest of the series to me, including the baby, and I was glad I hadn't invested the time.
I sure am curious to see what Mr. King has in store for us. Something tells me Bella and co will not be making an appearance!
Werner wrote: "I've never tried to watch the reruns (actually, as far as I know, they were never syndicated in any of the areas where I lived); but to be honest, looked at in retrospect, Dark Shadows was never th..."That's interesting, Werner, about the shift in vampire sensibilities. I hadn't thought of that or been aware of it. I prefer the modern approach of the humanized vampire, too. I bet someone could write an interesting master's thesis on the evolution of the vampire in world lit.
I’m elated the group has decided to read ‘Salem’s Lot this year. :) It is my favorite King novel, and I hope people enjoy it as much as I have through the years. I first read King’s book back in 1979 after I saw the frightening ‘Salem’s Lot television miniseries over the Christmas holidays. (The book was MUCH better than the miniseries). The compelling 1975 novel began my lifelong appreciation for all things Stephen King. In my humble opinion, it is a terrific October read for those who enjoy a good fright. So many of King’s best narratives explore tiny, xenophobic New England hamlets under the crisp azure skies of autumn. These settings are the perfect place for the seeds of evil to germinate in. I always enjoy fresh, new, or original vampire stories. Like some of you, I prefer vampires to be the frightening and dark creatures of traditional folklore. King delivers this with dividends in ‘Salem’s Lot, a novel he wrote at the tender age of 24. Though my preference is ‘scary’, I can appreciate vampire stories in which vampirism is portrayed more seductively. The Sookie Stackhouse Novels are great reads and Im a lifelong devotee of Anne Rice.
I was born the same year Dark Shadows premiered on television. I never had a chance to watch it as a kid, but stumbled upon the original series with Jonathan Frid on the SyFy cable channel in the mid-late 1990s. I really enjoyed it and marveled that I had never heard of it before. (This was before the internet). I’m also not ashamed to admit I thoroughly enjoyed the 2012 Dark Shadows movie starring Johnny Depp as Barnabus Collins.🧛♂️
Deb wrote: "I bet someone could write an interesting master's thesis on the evolution of the vampire in world lit." That's very true!Mark wrote: "I’m elated the group has decided to read ‘Salem’s Lot this year. :) "
I thought you would be, since my mention of it as a possibility on the "what are we going to read...." thread originally came from a discussion you and I had on another thread. It's a major work of later 20th-century vampire fiction; so being interested in that sub-genre myself, I've often thought that it's a novel I probably ought to read. So, now's my chance! :-)
Mark wrote: "I’m also not ashamed to admit I thoroughly enjoyed the 2012 Dark Shadows movie starring Johnny Depp as Barnabus Collins.🧛♂️ "There was some mention of that movie on the Supernatural Films and TV thread (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...? ) before it was released. but no one has commented on it there since then. (I haven't seen it myself.)
Deb wrote: "Haha! Fun discussion, guys!I saw a Dark Shadows episode recently on some network station. All those long, meaningful looks on Barnabas's face. As a kid I thought how profound. Now they're cringe-..."
Ha Ha, Deb! You made me laugh out loud!
Mark wrote: "I’m elated the group has decided to read ‘Salem’s Lot this year. :) It is my favorite King novel, and I hope people enjoy it as much as I have through the years. I first read King’s book back in 19..."Hi Mark, since you've read this book, I have a question before I join the read. The rest of y'all, don't read this if you don't want to know the answer! I have only ever read 1 SK short story and seen just one of his stories on film, The Fog, I think it was, while his story was called The Mist. They both had such twisted endings that I'm hesitant to join in.! I'm a wimp. Will this one have a "satisfactory" ending, meaning, do the good guys win? Or am I going to be left screaming, "Oh No!!! What??? GAHHH!" at the end, like I was for The Fog?
I won’t reveal any novel spoilers. :) But I will say that in my opinion ‘Salem’s Lot has a satisfying ending. The book has rich character development and a deepening sense of foreboding as the narrative progresses. It is truly scary story in its relatability. But, we all have different taste in books, movies, and music. I predict many people will like certain aspects of the story more than others. Can’t wait to hear what y’all think! Regarding the 2012 Dark Shadows Movie. I found it to be a charming, whimsical, and funny movie. Not the least bit scary for me. Johnny Depp was fantastic in his role as Barnabus Collins. I appreciated the fact that the movie paid proper homage to the original story without taking itself too seriously. The only thing I didn’t like about it was the portrayal of Angelique. For some reason, the comedy fell flat. The best thing about the original Dark Shadows series for me was the perpetual love hate enmity between Barnabus and Angelique that wasn’t conveyed well in the movie.
Mark wrote: "I won’t reveal any novel spoilers. :) But I will say that in my opinion ‘Salem’s Lot has a satisfying ending. The book has rich character development and a deepening sense of foreboding as the narr..."What? A Dark Shadows movie? Wow, and Johnnie Depp? I have to check that out.
In the sultry heat of August (at least, here in the Northern Hemisphere!), it seems far removed from the harvested fields and chilly (and spooky :-) ) nights of October; but Oct. 1 is only two months away. So, it's time to get serious about brainstorming, as we consider what book to choose for our annual common read. Due to the pandemic, many libraries are still closed, and interlibrary loan services are still pretty disrupted. So my suggestion would be to pick a book published before 1923, so it will be in the public domain and most likely be available for free online or as an e-book.We previously did a read of Dracula by Bram Stoker back in 2012. But while we usually don't repeat authors, there's precedent for doing so; and 2012 is a long time ago in Internet terms --many of you in this group have joined since then. His The Jewel of Seven Stars (1903) is on my to-read shelf, and I'd like to see it in the poll. (The Bluefield College library, which isn't closed, has a copy, so I could read it in paper format, which I prefer.) But I'm certainly open to other suggestions as well; and majority vote will rule!
Werner wrote: "In the sultry heat of August (at least, here in the Northern Hemisphere!), it seems far removed from the harvested fields and chilly (and spooky :-) ) nights of October; but Oct. 1 is only two mont..."Hi Werner,
I think reading a public domain book is an excellent idea! I'm taking a look at other public domain candidates for the poll as well. (I guess you know a ghost will be involved. Haha.)
Deb wrote: " I'm taking a look at other public domain candidates for the poll as well. (I guess you know a ghost will be involved. Haha.)"In pre-1923 times, ghost stories were usually written in the short format, not as novels. Not many of these were published in book-length collections in those days; a number of such collections have been made since then of works by authors from that era, but these usually have copyrighted modern introductions. Even when books of ghost stories were published by older-era authors in their own lifetimes, as was the case for instance with M. R. James' Ghost Stories of an Antiquary in 1904, later printings like the 1965 Dover edition may contain newer copyrighted material.
That said, this James collection could be a possibility. (I've just finished reading it as a common read in another group, so wouldn't reread it so soon; but if it's chosen, I could contribute to the discussion. Other possibilities might include James' later collections More Ghost Stories of an Antiquary (1911) or A Thin Ghost and Others (1919); The Wind in the Rosebush and Other Stories of the Supernatural by Mary E. Wilkins Freeman (1903); and Ghosts: Being the Experiences of Flaxman Low (1899) by Hesketh Hesketh-Prichard and Kate Prichard.
I did some research, and it turns out there are very few ghost novels of this era; mostly Victorian writers turned to writing ghost short stories. The Turn of the Screw and The Canterville Ghost are two good public domain ghost novels (though I imagine these have been done before). Or it might be fun to read The Haunted House by Dickens. It's somewhere between an anthology and a ghost novel with contributions from Victorian luminaries like Wilkie Collins and Elizabeth Gaskell.
Deb, we've actually never done a common read of The Turn of the Screw! IMO, that would be an outstanding choice, especially under present circumstances.
We've never done "The Canterville Ghost," either. I've read both of these (The Turn of the Screw three times!), and wouldn't plan to reread either of them, but I could definitely join in the discussion. The Haunted House would also be a viable possibility. (It would be a new read for me, and the BC library might have a copy.)I hope to get the poll up on Sept. 1. Do we want to include all four of the suggested titles, or narrow them down some?
I'd go for the Canterville Ghost. I'm not too sure that my brain could make sense of either Henry James OR Dickens!
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