The Bookhouse Boys discussion
File Under: Misc.
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I think all of your reasons are part of it.
Also, I think the price tag weighs in, too. Decompressed storytelling + $4/chapter equals easily turned-off readers. I happily walked away from the mainstream and may catch up on some favorites when there's a TFAW 70% sale, but I am much happier chasing down little indie nuggets of gold than getting pallets of zinc.
Thanks for listening, brother.
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I think Jason finds it harder to comprehend because he doesn't buy a lot of X-Dudes type stuff. But while there's a lot of great indie material out there, it's SO different from the mainstream material and artists that unquestionably drives the medium that I think a lot of fans don't even consider it comics (in the sense of "I'm quitting comics," I mean). The term "comics" I think still means the Marvel/DC monthly grind to a lot of folks. I think there are a lot of people like Matt and myself out there who have "quit comics" in this sense, even though we still continue to read a lot of collections and original graphic novels from publishers like Fantagraphics and D&Q. I still have hundreds of comics--pamphlets and otherwise--that I haven't read, and have certain artists from whom I'll continue to buy everything they do until the end of time. As far as the monthly "What'd you buy from DCBS for July?" conversation, though, yeah, I've quit the habit of comics.
Matt wrote: "I think all of your reasons are part of it. Also, I think the price tag weighs in, too. Decompressed storytelling + $4/chapter equals easily turned-off readers. I hap..."
Agreed. The bottom line, is well, the bottom line.
Dave wrote: "When I "quit" comics, it was price tags + shared universe reading. Yes, it's silly to think that not liking the latest summer blockbuster means you'd stop watching movies, but I think it's actually pretty reasonable when you see the same thing happen with comics. Going to see a summer blockbuster film at the theater is one $15-$20 ticket, while participating in a comics summer blockbuster will likely cost you closer to $75-$100 if you want to get the whole story.
The event. Ah yes, thanks to Bendis and Marvel's Secret Invasion, I quit ALL comics for nearly a whole year.
It also involves months and months of perpetual and passionate discussion, a vibe that's pretty much impossible to sustain. To use Robert's X-Dudes example, quitting comics might seem drastic 2 or 3 issues into the latest arc of X-Dudes, but when you consider that there are 7-10 monthly X-Dudes related series at any given time, plus 7-10 more miniseries and one-shots and all that, and that you pretty much have to buy all of them if you want to follow what's going on in one of them (and yes, this is still the case, as I learned when I tried to buy the New Mutants relaunch a few years ago), then it becomes less crazy to just throw your hands up and chuck the whole venture.
Again, simple economics. This is why I avoid the Big 2 as a whole and have for some time. I understand that both companies are subsidiaries of a larger whole with both intent on making a profit for each's shareholders, but I simply can't afford to have my wallet washed away in the sea of event mania.
Top that off, even if I could afford X-Y-Z of said event, series, et al, when the heck would I even get a chance to read everything? My gift of guilt would immediately rot myself inside-out staring at huge regina piles of unread books. Secondly, I find books are much more enjoyable when I am not rushing through them simply so I can tackle said pile of unread comics. So in essence, less is more. More enjoyment per book, that is.
Even if you find a good discount service, that's still well over $50/month just on X-Dudes comics, many of which you may not even be enjoying.
This, too, is an investment because as a customer you will need to pre-order at least 2-3 months of issues without having read a single one before even making a decision as to whether to continue buying and reading. Again, for me, economics forces my purchasing decisions to be stringent.
I think Jason
. . . and myself. . .
finds it harder to comprehend because he doesn't buy a lot of X-Dudes type stuff. But while there's a lot of great indie material out there, it's SO different from the mainstream material and artists that unquestionably drives the medium that I think a lot of fans don't even consider it comics (in the sense of "I'm quitting comics," I mean). The term "comics" I think still means the Marvel/DC monthly grind to a lot of folks.
Again, I find myself in agreement here. Anytime someone mentions comics, even among avid readers, the Big 2 more than likely come to mind first.
I think there are a lot of people like Matt and myself out there who have "quit comics" in this sense, even though we still continue to read a lot of collections and original graphic novels from publishers like Fantagraphics and D&Q. I still have hundreds of comics--pamphlets and otherwise--that I haven't read, and have certain artists from whom I'll continue to buy everything they do until the end of time. As far as the monthly "What'd you buy from DCBS for July?" conversation, though, yeah, I've quit the habit of comics.
Great response. More than anything, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments, it is just that you, Dave, have stated them so expertly.
Ha, my apologies for such a loooooooong winded response.
Jason wrote:"It does seem like a lose-lose proposition. Either they do it faithfully, in which case, you know, endless waking nightmares. Or they neuter it, and then what's the point?"I was thinking the former -- as in, I would not want to see these events depicted on screen. But you're right, making it palatable for movie audiences would cut the balls right off the original work.
Jason wrote: "Have I mentioned that you're my favorite?"
Not often enough. Thanks, Jason.
Matt's got a point about chasing the comic book dragon, trying to duplicate that first high. I know it can be done, but it gets tougher. Resistance builds over time.On price point: Today I spent $23 on six comics -- no discount, 7% sales tax. It may take me 90 minutes to read them (Mind MGMT #2 will account for about half that total). That shit is bananas, yo.
In old man voice: "Why, I can remember when comics only cost forty cents! Forty cents!!!"
Kinda wished I'd spent that money on Parker: The Score ($25), or the new Blacksad book ($20). Or that I'd just not bought anything. How likely is it that I'll get twenty bucks' worth of enjoyment from them? Only if I chose really well, I suppose.
Jim wrote: "Matt's got a point about chasing the comic book dragon, trying to duplicate that first high. I know it can be done, but it gets tougher. Resistance builds over time.On price point: Today I spen..."
I like the "chasing the dragon" analogy, Jim.
Yeah, hopefully at my age (cough*cough) I'll be making wizened choices to aid in my enjoyment of this beloved medium. As I told my wifey-poo yesterday, I don't foresee quitting this addiction anytime soon.
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These veins will never collapse.
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Matt wrote: "Does anybody know anything about gardening? Specifically, growing berries? I've had a raspberry bush for 3 or 4 years now. I give it compost from the Earth machine, OG fertilizer, mineralizer, kee..."You don't sound as if you are doing anything wrong, per se. The only thing I could think of would be pruning to achieve a more abundant crop. This, I know little.
But, I do recommend visiting your local University Oregon website. If they are anything like the UW-Madison site, someone should be able to respond with a more concise plan that should help you achieve a better raspberry yield.
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Thanks. There are lots of shoots that are coming off. I pull all new ones out, but maybe I should be pruning back some existing shoots as well.
And, yes, there's an OSU master gardener in my neighborhood w/ a sign offering school assistance and soil tests. I just can't stand the thought of being helped by a (shudder) Beaver.
I'm a small man, in many ways. A small, petty, petty man. :)
Matt wrote: "Robert wrote: "Matt wrote: "Does anybody know anything about gardening? Specifically, growing berries? I've had a raspberry bush for 3 or 4 years now. I give it compost from the Earth machine, OG ..."Heh. But what better for a bush than a beaver? :)
Hioooooooooooooooooooo!!!
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Thanks for the welcome, Matt. This is the novel I wrote, Pangamonium and which I am excited to say comes out in one week. Paperback for Australia and ebook for the rest of the world.
Synopsis
Pangamonium is a comic novel that parodies travel adventure stories and satirises globalisation. It is a tongue-in-cheek adventure romp, a mock epic. Francis is a journalist looking for a big story in the tiny kingdom of Panga. He finds himself attempting to liberate a bunch of child slaves making sex toys for the West. Toss in an African pilgrim named Easter on a quest to find his grandfather's grave filled with pirate gold, a military regime oppressing the citizens of Panga, and a Bollywood romance - pandemonium ensues.
My friend Patrick Allington, who is launching my novel, wrote his debut novel Figurehead with Coetzee as a mentor. His is subtle and fine, while mine is coarser and playful.
Anyway, it should be available as an ebook through Amazon and also at my indie publisher here: http://midnightsunpublishing.com/2012...
Cheers
Zanesh
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Thanks for the welcome, Matt. This is the novel I wrote, Pangamonium and which I am excited to say comes out in one week. Paperback for Australia and ebook for the rest of ..."
That sounds like a fun, satirical ride. Can you tell us a bit about your influences and stuff? I've added it to my to-read list. I'll be reading it on my Kindle.
Matt wrote: "Zanesh wrote: "Thanks for the welcome, Matt. This is the novel I wrote, Pangamonium and which I am excited to say comes out in one week. Paperback for Australia and ebook f..."
Thanks for your interest. I tried like hell to make it fun, because too-earnest books bore me to death. It ultimately makes a moral point but in the most farcical and absurd way.
On my site I said this about my influences:
Q: Who are your biggest influences as a writer?
A: It’s always hard to know, but the foundation is probably authors I loved as a kid; Robert Louis Stephenson, Charles Dickens and Mark Twain. And later, satirical TV shows, films and magazines — Get Smart, Dr Strangelove and Mad Magazine. Great writers on all of those. Then add an overlay of funny surrealists in Tom Robbins and Kurt Vonnegut. Splash in a good measure of the humanist Garrison Keillor. Add the hilarious adventures of Tahir Shah. Mix and shake. Serve over ice in a martini glass.
Just finished "It's Not About Spider-Man, That's For Sure," and while I'm too brain-tired to say anything coherent or intelligent about it, I will say two things:a) Brad Dourif is indeed excellent in Wise Blood.
b) Castle Waiting is awesome and the more thoughtful comics-reader will really enjoy the slow, intimate pace.
All right, that's it. Now off for my Saturday Siesta!
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Matt wrote: "On the newest ep, I professed my admiration for Suso's art in The Complete Saga of the Victims:. Here's a link to a blog with some scans http://my-retrospace.blogspot.com/201..."Definitely see a Berni Wrightson influence in Suso's work. And as Dave stated, I would love to see more of this style in modern comics. Yes, Wrightson is still working and most recently released, Frankenstein, Alive, Alive!, but his output is the exception and infrequent.
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Wrightson! D'oh!
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"Wedding hangovers; Soupy Sales; a Rickey is not a method of conveyance; old comic strips; even older comic strips; is his name really "Breathed"; a boy, his tiger, our hearts; Mystery and Manners; Flannery O'Connor, the BDSM Cartoonist; Saga of the Victims; space operas, Matt re-enlists in the Corp; Penelope Lively betrays her name; creation myths for the Adult Swim generation; mutual Terry Moore admiration society; Twain, so much Twain; demonic clowns; casting Suttree and lots more!
Psst, kids. If you liked this podcast, go into your daddy's wallet and find some of those funny, green papers. Send them to the address below and we'll let you stay up later and watch cartoons. Don't forget the stamp!"
OUTRO: "Stratosphere Boogie" by Speedy West & Jimmy Bryant
Oh, and, if anyone wants to see how bad the '70s Soupy Sales Show is (which my daughter likes, for some reason), here's a clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNtcwX...
Oh? There's a new episode? I may have to listen.
Robert wrote: "Oh? There's a new episode? I may have to listen."
Don't do it! It's a trap!
I've been maintaining radio silence during my family vacation to DC and Floydfest but I can't wait to get home to hear this ep. Terry Moore AND demonic clowns? How can you go wrong?!?Been reading Suttree (good) and A Once Crowded Sky (not so much). More later.
Hell yeah! Now I know what I'll be listening to while drinking my rum and unwinding by the pool tomorrow ... I mean researching. While researching. Yes.
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Wow. That's dedication, my friend. We love you. Have a Sharkbite for me (Myer's dark rum, OJ, and a splash of grenadine).
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That was a fun show. My highlights:*Calvin & Hobbes : the funnies :: DD Born Again : superhero comics.
*"[The Simpsons] should've been shown the rabbits years ago." Without a doubt, the greatest euphemism for being shot in the head ever devised by man.
*John Stanley: My daughter has that 2011 FCBD issue, and we still read it once in a while. Favorites are Melvin Monster and Tubby. And Judy Junior was a beeyotch.
The Nancy thing did confuse me a bit. I'd always connected her to Ernie Bushmiller. Stanley's version was much funnier, to be sure.
*Saga of the Victims sounds improbably fantastic, considering how little love I have for horror. And that art... damn. Thanks for the link, Matt.
*"That's what I write. That's what I write." Whattadick. Do keep reminding us.
*Demonic clown Hal Holbrook. It's all in the eyebrows.
*And it's Jason for the win with the "Cheers" shoutout!
Matt: "Aaand we're done."
Dave: "We got the Cheers in."
But for the record, there's no need to do that on my account. :)
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I'll have some things to say about his life and work and his impact on me on the next podcast.
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Dave also did an impromptu author-talk on Vidal back in November: http://archive.org/details/BookhouseB...
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Ditto.
It's a macabre habit to find the motivation to read the work of great authors only after they've died, but better late than never...can either of you recommend a particular book?
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Vidal had a varied career, so it depends what sort of thing you're looking for. He's probably best known for his histories, especially his American Chronicle series (which, chronologically speaking within that world of story, begins with Burr and continues with such well-known and well-researched works as Lincoln, 1876, and Washington, D.C., among others). Vidal grew up in DC amidst 20th Century politics, and so introduced a uniquely human, even cynical perspective to America's legends.
He was also one of the first authors to write frankly about homosexual relationships in stuff like The City and the Pillar and his short story collection A Thirsty Evil (this got him blacklisted for a while in the 1950s, during which time he wrote under a few different pseudonyms to pay the bills). Culturally significant though this was, I think a lot of what he wrote before the 1960s was unremarkable compared to his later works.
He also had a fascination with the politics of religion, particularly tent revival type faith healers and cults. To be honest, these were my least favorite of the types of books he wrote, as I found their points a little obvious and unvaried; others' mileage may vary, though. Probably his best-known of these were Kalki and Live from Golgotha: The Gospel According to Gore Vidal.
And then, there were my favorites, the books he dubbed his "inventions." These were outrageous and often sexually explicit satires of American cultural obsessions. These include Myra Breckinridge/Myron and Duluth, which I think are hilarious, un-put-downable, and which I love dearly. They're pretty bizarre and intentionally offensive, though... definitely not for everybody.
There were also plays, essays, and an autobiography that places him in the midst of many of the movers and shakers of the mid-20th century.
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My condolences, Dave. I know how much Vidal's work means to you.Since I haven't read any of his books (yet), allow me recommend the excellent film The Best Man, a tale of power and ambition set in the distant past when party conventions had meaning. The film is based on Vidal's 1960 play, which proved so prescient that its revival is currently one of the most lauded attractions on Broadway.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARN6a...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARN6a..."
I'd usually agree, but Luhrmann's got a proven track record with me. I give him a lot of leeway.
I'm with Dave. I don't really see this as an adaptation of Gatsby as much as I see it as a new Luhrmann movie, which I'm almost always excited about.
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Matt wrote: "Yeah, I don't like his work, either."Snob ;)
Jeppe wrote: "Matt wrote: "Yeah, I don't like his work, either."
Snob ;)"
That's fair. I don't like The Great Gatsby either!
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"Matt wrote: "Yeah, I don't like his work, either."
Snob ;)"
That's fair. I don't like The Great Gatsby either!"
Next thing, you'll be telling us you don't like Moby Dick. Oh, wait, I'm confusing you with myself.
Jason wrote: "Next thing, you'll be telling us you don't like Moby Dick. Oh, wait, I'm confusing you with myself. "
O.O
Jason, you are dead to me!
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That's right! I include the hyphen! Like a ballahhhh
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"
O.O
Jason, you are dead to me!"
I won't pretend to love either book (or hate them), but my post was mostly a dig at Dave who, as he mentions, wrote me an impassioned "what the fuck are you thinking" message a couple of years ago when he saw my Goodreads ratings for Moby Dick and The Great Gatsby. I knew he'd remember. ;)
The Bookhouse Boys
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I'd like to endorse Castle Waiting, as well. If one is expecting "something" to happen, then yes, disappointment is in the foreseeable future. But as was already stated, it has these genuine and sweet character moments that are quite savory and an illustration style that is reminiscent of 19th century relief cuts. Very fitting.
I loved your analogy, Jason, when used in context with the finicky dispositions and reading habits of comics readers. I am too hard-pressed to think of another medium where the readers', aka fans', passions wax and wane like the phases of the moon. Two issues of this latest arc of X-Dudes and it's now the worst comic ever!
Why is this? Is it because the typical audience has matured and aged and the medium can't produce any new readers? Is it because the loyal, aged fan is at a constant odds with his nostalgic self and the reality of the current climate? Does the current reader know too much about the medium due to the accessibility afforded through modern social media outlets like twitter, facebook, etc.? Maybe.