What the Space Opera Folder is For

[Jason]

Please feel free to create a thread to discuss your favorite Space Opera.

[[deleted user]]

Is....is there soft space opera?

[whimsicalmeerkat]

...unicorns in space? *shudders*

[[deleted user]]

Oh crap, I thought it was a joke.

[Aloha]

Like eating raw duck blood sprinkled on chopped mints and peanuts.

[Kevin]

I figured this would have the first posts, since this is the most like fantasy.

[[deleted user]]

I think it has the most post because it started with a joke, not because it's the most like fantasy.

Also, wtf Aloha?

[mark, personal space invader]

"Hard Space Opera" sounds like it is for space opera porn! which actually does not sound too awful to me.

but i guess i should be a good moderator and update that. my first official moderator act, woot!

[[deleted user]]

Well, there goes the joke.

Now I look like a creeper asking for space opera softcore...

THANKS MARK.

[mark, personal space invader]

my pleasure.

[Jason]

*queue porno music*

[mark, personal space invader]

ala, not to worry - we all have our, um...."interests", i suppose.

[[deleted user]]

I can't help it... spaceships are just so smooooooth and shiny.

Don't judge me.

[Scott]

Acorna wasn't too bad.

[[deleted user]]

In space, no one can hear you mooooooooan

[whimsicalmeerkat]

You don't seem like a creeper for that, Ala. We all know you're one of those. It's just now, well...you seem like a weak creeper.

[Paul]

thanks to all you-i now have lost my train of thought............

[[deleted user]]

Sorry, Paul. Derailments occur around us for some reason.

I blame Denae.

She's broken.

[Paul]

i understand i know a few of those....haha

[Maggie, space cruisin' for a bruisin']

<<

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Ala wrote: "Sorry, Paul. Derailments occur around us for some reason.

I blame Denae.

She's broken."

Eh?

[Amanda]

Lol I read the first Acorna....oh man was it very...um yeah...I got rid of the forst 3 books a coupel years ago.

[[deleted user]]

I dare you to.

And then report back.

After your mind has finished reeling from what is sure to be the most awful reading experience ever.

[[deleted user]]

bwahahahaha


Though I must admit I do feel a tad guilty for the horror you are now destined to read.






nah, I don't. bwahahahahaha

[Maggie, space cruisin' for a bruisin']

it must be supposed to be tongue in cheek....hmmm.
it is not tempting me in the least though...lol

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Me either

[[deleted user]]

Have any of you read Leviathan Wakes? What did you think?

[Ward]

Okay, I have seen this term used a lot. I have even looked it up on wikipedia, but I am not sure I get it. Just what is the current definition of a Space Opera?

[mark, personal space invader]

Pavarotti in Space

[Mark]

Star Wars. Pretty much typifies the genre. Not much on the science, plenty of action, strong heroes, evil villains...
No moral ambiguity, no angst, lots of explosions.

[Traci]

I think I might be a little confused on what "space opera" is. I too always thought it was light science fiction. More about adventure and space exploration. Space battles and shoot outs with aliens. Like Mark said, Star Wars. But I just finished Revelation Space, a book classified in more than one place as space opera. It had very little in common with Star Wars. Atleast I thought.

[The Pirate Ghost]

I'm confused too. I thought Space Opera was not much for action and shooting, but more about science fiction and relatinships/character development.

[The Pirate Ghost]

On three everyone cough up an example of what you think space opera is?

one.. two...

[The Pirate Ghost]

...three

[Scott]

[mark, personal space invader]

check out the works of peter hamilton (except for his Greg Mandel trilogy). iain banks writes a more intellectual version of space opera. alastair reynolds writes space opera.

although it is at times confusing and contradictory, i do think that, overall, the wikipedia article is the best way to grasp the very loose definition of the subgenre.

particularly:
Perhaps the most significant trait of space opera is that settings, characters, battles, powers, and themes tend to be very large-scale.

[mark, personal space invader]

i always hesitate to try to specifically define all the different subgenres of both genre and mainstream fiction. i think that many works combine various aspects of different subgenres and different techniques, and it seems like a fool's errand to try to truly define everything in neat little categories. my own experience in educating myself has been limited - just some classes in college. i also edited a campus journal of 'speculative fiction'. although this all occurred nearly two decades ago, here were the something of the working definitions i used...although i am absolutely not an expert.

Space Opera
does it have galaxy-spanning adventures, multiple human and alien cultures, large-scale conflict and (perhaps potential) war, human drama including a focus on politics and/or romance, larger-than-life concepts, eons-old mysteries, and a wide cast of players? then it is probably Space Opera.

Planetary Romance
is it primarily set on one world, has a large degree of world-building, alien anthropology, and psychosocial speculation, with an alien culture and terrain explored in detail? then it is probably Planetary Romance - in which the romance is with the planet or culture itself?

Science Fantasy
is it set in the far, far far-flung future or in (an alternate reality), where the science is magic/might as well be magic/reverted to magic? then it is probably a Science Fantasy. its narrative will also most likely be in the form of a picaresque or a quest - both forms being key fantasy traditions.

Military Science Fiction
is the focus on the everyman/everywoman engaged in a war, with an emphasis on weapons, nationalism, and a ground/grunt's eye view? then it is most likely Military Science Fiction.

Alternate History
is it a depiction of our world but What If Something Happened that changes reality as we know it? for example, what if Hitler won the war?

Regular Ole Science Fiction
is it a work of speculative fiction that takes an idea or two and expands it as far as possible? or is it set post-apocalypse? or in a future dystopia? these all might be different subgenres yet again, but i just tend to lump all of these together as straight-up Science Fiction.

and then beyond all that, there are the various periods in sci-fi. i'm sure there are many more than i give credit for, but i tend to lump things in three categories:

1. Golden Age/ Classic Science Fiction (including Pulp)
2. New Wave Science Fiction (60's and 70s)
3. Modern Science Fiction

in my opinion only, all of the subgenres can then also be subdivided within all of the three eras. so the Space Opera of the Golden Age is a very different kettle of fish than that of the often more intricate space operas of the modern era. a lot of times, the main differences i notice between the eras is simply based around style. Although sometimes eras don't make much difference - i think Starship Troopers and the works of John Ringo have a lot in common as works of military science fiction.

[Traci]

Seems like trying seperate each subgenre of science fiction is more complicated than most science fiction plots.

I think I was confusing space opera with golden age or planetary romance or science fantasy or......lol.

[mark, personal space invader]

LOL! i didn't even dare to bring up Hard Science Fiction vs. soft scifi.

[Jason]

Awesome definitions, mark!

[mark, personal space invader]

thanks Jason!

[Ward]

mark wrote: "thanks Jason!"

Thanks everyone, I think I have a better idea of what everyone is talking about and better yet I see where the different types overlap.

[Rob]

No one has posted in here for a bit soooo....I FRACKING LOVE SPACE OPERA!! Star Carrier, Any John Ringo series, Star Force (close to military though), the lost fleet...!!!! Wish there were more good ones out there!!

[mark, personal space invader]

Star Force & Star Carrier are new to me... thanks for the recommendations, Rob. have you read any Hamilton or Reynolds?

[David]

If you see a new novel or movie listed as "Space Opera" do you interpret that as a pejorative or positive description?

Dave
http://meshnovel.wordpress.com/
https://www.facebook.com/meshnovel

[mark, personal space invader]

neither. I see it merely as a description or a type.

[Paul]

mark wrote: "i always hesitate to try to specifically define all the different subgenres of both genre and mainstream fiction. i think that many works combine various aspects of different subgenres and differen..."
That's one of the clearest sub-genre explanations I've seen to-date. Thanks.

It puts my works squarely in the Space Opera sub genre. That's where I thought they would land, but it's always good to get an experienced second opinion.

[Dan]

Coming to this conversation a bit late, sorry. I contributed to the original Wikipedia article on Space Opera. Where most people get confused is separating space opera from new space opera, and then both of these from military science fiction. Regular space opera was perhaps the dominant form of science fiction in the Golden Age. The most typical example of the genre I can think of is the Lensman series by E. E. Doc Smith. If you haven't had a chance to read this wonderful work, Star Wars (the 1977 film especially) is a good example. Look at any cover of a science fiction magazine from the 1930s and 1940s and you will probably see classic space opera tropes. In the late 1970s and 1980s, a number of authors, mostly British (Banks, Reynolds, and Hamilton are the most popular representatives), revamped the genre to create New Space Opera. What the 2000s Battlestar Galactica series did to the 1970s series (which are also both good examples of the two types of space opera) is exactly what New Space Opera does to classic Space Opera. New Space Opera is maturer, darker, and more literary, but it deals with the same tropes.

Both space operas are in my view very different in emphasis from military science fiction. If Star Wars were written from the perspective of one of the Stormship Troopers maybe ... They are as different as Ender's Game, Dorsai, the Honor Harrington series, Starship Troopers are from the aforementioned works. Military science fiction spends its time on the military ranks structure, tactics, the war, and very often gives a grunt's eye view. Luke Skywalker is not a grunt. Neither is Starbuck or Commander Adama. A battle for survival (Galactica) is not a military campaign (Hammer's Slammers). Honor Harrington may be a starship captain rather than a grunt, but she answers to admirals and a civilian leadership structure, thus placing her in the middle somewhere.

That is not to say these distinctions are always easy. There can be a lot of overlap. For example, don't ask me which camp to park Star Trek in - any of the series!

[mark, personal space invader]

fascinating! thanks very much for this Dan.

[Mary]

mark wrote: "Planetary Romance
is it primarily set on one world, has a large degree of world-building, alien anthropology, and psychosocial speculation, with an alien culture and terrain explored in detail? then it is probably Planetary Romance - in which the romance is with the planet or culture itself?"

The original term "romance" meant "work written in the vernacular." That particular meaning is as dead as a doornail, but its next meaning, tales of action and adventure and strange things a la King Arthur or Charlemagne's paladin, still haunts its usage.

Planetary romance derives from that meaning of the term, so love interests are strictly optional.