"The Blade Itself" Finished Book Discussion **Spoilers Inside**

[Cindy]

For those that have finished the book and want to discuss it further with spoilers! Discuss away!

[Jon]

I read The Blade Itself back in March 2009 (click here for my review) and loved it. Soon after, I read the second book, Before They Are Hanged and bought the third book, Last Argument of Kings as well as Best Served Cold (neither of which I have yet read). Abercrombie writes some of the best battle fight scenes I've ever read.

[Kara]

Jon wrote: "Abercrombie writes some of the best battle fight scenes I've ever read. "

Ditto. Noted it in my review as well
review - and was just going to mention it over in the first impressions thread. I think they are very well written and enjoyable to read.

Enjoyed the entire series!

[Lara Amber]

While I was entertained by the book, it felt like one long setup to me. I still feel completely in the dark about the mission. For all I know they are got on that boat to go out for pizza. Sure it's a long dangerous trip, but it's really good pizza.

[[deleted user]]

If you say one thing about Logan Ninefingers, say he loves him some pizza.

[Lara Amber]

Great, now I'm going to be looking for nine-fingered men the next time I head to Beau Jo's. That's where he would head. The Bloody Nine would eat manly mountain pies sold by the pound, not wimpy East Coast pizzas.

/pass the honey

[[deleted user]]

Your link seems to be goofy.

But I found the website, and now I want me some...

[Diane]

Ala wrote: "If you say one thing about Logan Ninefingers, say he loves him some pizza."

LOL

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Lara Amber wrote: "While I was entertained by the book, it felt like one long setup to me. I still feel completely in the dark about the mission. For all I know they are got on that boat to go out for pizza. Sure ..."

I agree with this. It felt like a really long version of "gather your party", and I think it could've easily been cut by half.

(Ok, maybe not half... but by a lot.)

Also, I seem to be the only person who wasn't blown away by the action sequences. I mean, I guess they were good in the sense that I could follow what was going on, which is often a problem when authors write action, but I never felt any real suspense or fear for the characters, no pulse pounding, edge of the seat adrenaline rush while reading them or anything.

[Maggie]

I also felt like it was just setting up for the next book...I liked it, a lot even, but really not much got done.

I got the next book already, and if I ever get caught up I am looking forward to reading it!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Oh - before I forget.

There was one part towards the end which really bothered me. It's the dinner scene, after the Contest, and Logan is sitting there hungry and sees the floral arrangement and wonders if it's food and starts eating the stem.

Now, ok, I know they were playing up the whole "stupid savage from the North" thing (even though this is belied by the scenes from Logan's perspective, generally), and I admit that I thought his initial jaw-dropping reaction to the big city was pretty funny, even the part with the fountain...

But eating a flower?

I mean, I'm sure they don't have delicate floral arrangements sitting on the tables in the barbaric North, but are we meant to believe that in his travels thus far he has never seen a freaking flower? Really?

(Also, as to the Contest, I thought the fencing vs. the heavy sword fighting was abit ridiculous. I know that our attention it brought to it at one point, where West says something about "surely there are rules against this" and Valuz (I think his name was) says there are rules about the length of the blade but not the weight... but I had a real hard with the suspension of disbelief about that.

Maybe it's because I'm fairly familiar with the difference between fencing and, say, broadsword fighting, but I had a really hard time believing that there would be no rules about that sort of thing. )

[mark]

i really liked this one. for all the supposed violence and brutality that i heard about before diving in, at the end i came away with the feeling that i had just read something light, even sweet-tempered in its outlook. despite the torture and even despite the tragedies in some of the characters' lives, the book never felt heavy or especially dark.

not that i don't like heavy or dark...its just that this book was neither, contrary to my expectations. the light touch and the upbeat tone were diverting, and a surprise.

my much more wordy review:
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

[Maggie]

mark wrote: "i really liked this one. for all the supposed violence and brutality that i heard about before diving in, at the end i came away with the feeling that i had just read something light, even sweet-te..."

I thought the same thing Mark...I was all like that wasn't bad...oh wait yes it was...but it doesnt seem bad...Torture didnt seem bad? Hmmm, maybe I need to go do something else...lolol

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I think part of it is because he doesn't linger on the torture. Most of it happens off-stage, as it were - you know people are tortured, you see them setting up to torture people, but it's not like we're reading a Clive Barker book where it lingers on it in lovingly disgusting detail. It's not torture porn, in other words.

[Chris]

Wow. And I was just considering a read of a Clive Barker book. Heh...

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Just don't read it while you're eating.

[Chris]

Definitely not.

[Kara]

Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "It's not torture porn, in other words. "

"Torture porn". Good description...

[Michelle]

yup, one big, long set-up, dammit. and while I was in fact quite enjoying the individuality and depth of his characters (I love how no one is completely heroic, and no one is wholly flawed, everyone is multi-layered...except for that southland barbarian chick, who's mostly a cartoon barbarian chick), then it ended.

it may be the greatest pizza ever they're sailing off for, but when the end of a book makes me wonder if kindle forgot to send me the last couple of chapters? bah!!

[Danielle]

@Colleen - that didn't bother me too terribly - I guess, since I'm used to eating flowers? (No, I'm not being snarky. Nasturtiums are *awesome* on a salad.)

Overall, I loved the book until the very end. I knew it was part of a trilogy, but I didn't expect it to be quite *so* abrupt. Just ordered the second one, though - can't wait to see what toppings they get on their pizza. ;)

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Yeah, but do you start with the stems?

[Danielle]

Heh...no, but the leaves, sometimes.

[Caleb]

OK - I just finished this book. I liked it, but for some reason I felt this book was a huge slog for me. I'm not sure why, but I felt like I'd been reading it for years.

I like dark and I tend to agree that this was not really that dark. Although, I did get a sense of grittiness, which I believe the author was going for.

I did think the author tried to create more than just cardboard cut-outs for his characters and I appreciated that. Although Jezal was a bit close to a caricature. I sure hope he gets more interesting in subsequent novels.

I didn't have a problem with it ending the way it did, although I know that it will be quite some time until I venture to the next novel in the trilogy.

Overall - it seemed like just another fantasy/action trilogy except that the author tried to add grit; to the story, action sequences and characters. Mostly it worked I think.

I had initial reservations about language used in some places:

"She was perhaps slightly fuller of figure than was strictly fashionable, since skinny girls were all the rage..."

However, thankfully this only cropped up for me in the first part of the book. I did stumble upon a grammar error towards the end of the book though:

"Carleon weren't at all how the Dogman remembered it, but then he tended to remember it burning."

It's the first sentence of a chapter so I'm surprised it wasn't picked up.

[Kevin]

Caleb wrote: "OK - I just finished this book. I liked it, but for some reason I felt this book was a huge slog for me. I'm not sure why, but I felt like I'd been reading it for years.

I like dark and I tend to ..."

As far as personal growth goes, Jezal goes the furthest of all the characters in the trilogy. That being said, he still is my least favourite main character.

I also like Abercrombie's use of contemporary language. It's quite refreshing.

The whole series is best read as one long book in order to get the most out of it. It is just one story cut in three parts (just like LotR) rather than three interconnected stories like some series are.

[Jacob]

I was positively surprised at the dark and gritty setting - in particular Logan and Glokta as charachers, although I guess one really have to read the following novels to get anything out of the more overarching storyline. A bit like LOTR in that way I guess.

[Rob]

Actually, there is an important distinction between this and LOTR, which is that JRRT at least had the courtesy to establish a plot in the first book. Abercrombie doesn't do that, and I loathe the notion that I have to buy three books in order to get anything out of the first. This book reads like a collection of adventures, many of which appear to have no connection to each other, and some of which go nowhere at all. But to me it is inexcusable to get this far (I'm 75% through) without any conceivable notion of what the overarching plot is. If it takes this long to introduce characters and establish the background for a plot, that tells me all I need to know about the series and the author. Won't be getting near Abercrombie's work in the future. At least this was an e-book, so no trees were sacrificed as a result of my mistake in reading this.

[Chris]

I finished this book and the next in a series and it wasn't until half through that book that many things started dropping into place (those that weren't at least obvious). I does seem in many ways a single book that was split into three.

[[deleted user]]

Lara Amber wrote: "While I was entertained by the book, it felt like one long setup to me. I still feel completely in the dark about the mission. For all I know they are got on that boat to go out for pizza. Sure ..."

I agree completely. This is the only major issue I have with the book: I have no idea what the central plot is. Everything else is done great.

[Veronika KaoruSaionji]

I read it and I love it and I NEED :o) continuation. :o)
Great novel!

[Chris]

I loved this book. I am surprised that no one mentioned the humor. I was laughing often. Abercrombie seems to wink at readers to say that he knows we've read all those other major fantasy novels. The characters are walking cliches, but most of them have a self-awareness that I found refreshing. They are unhappy with who they are, but they made choices in the past, and circumstances always seemed to keep them on those chosen paths. Now a weird old man comes along, and they not only have to save the world, but they also have a chance to break the mold and become better people.

[Sarah]

One of the things I loved about this was how human the characters were. They weren't good or evil, but very human. I hated Glokta (is that his name?) at first but I ended up developing a grudging respect for him.

[Suzanne]

There are still many many days, especially mornings, when I tell myself "not dead yet."

[Colin]

I absolutely flew through this text. I think I read the whole thing in under two weeks, which is faster than I would typically get through a tome of this volume. I came in with no real background other than some glimpses of reviews where people mentioned the humour.

I enjoyed the story: it's basically a massive meeting of characters and set up for the rest of the series (which I haven't tackled yet). I don't read nearly as much fantasy as sci-fi, so I feel like I've little to compare this to. It read like a shallower Game of Thrones in terms of political and maybe character depth, but similar in that in that parts held comedy, darkness, and/or violent action. All of which I enjoy, so great fit for me. The prose was well done. It had a great flow to it and didn't have me checking a thesaurus or dictionary (not that those habits are bad, but given the action-ie flow of the text I'm glad I didn't have to do). I found the action scenes well described and paced which helps me really get into a scene.

My favorite section in this book was when Glokta first met Bayaz and Logen after they arrived in the city and were "guests" confined to a tower. The dialog in that scene was super foolish, with Glokta questioning Bayaz and Logen and thinking they're all full of lies. No explanations for a massive hole in the wall, Logen looking confused at everything in the room. I think that chapter best encapsultes the intended spirit of the book as a serious chain of events told from the point of view of characters who don't really know what's going on (ever). They're own ignorance or bias makes typical fantasy things seem foolish. Great read! I hope to leap through the next volumes once I track them down.

[Trike]

My takeaway was that this was a pretty good 517-page first chapter.

[Colin]

Trike wrote: "My takeaway was that this was a pretty good 517-page first chapter."

haha! Agreed

[Bobby]

I just finished if anyone did the re-read and wants to talk about it. I'll just say that I really liked the book, but like people who have commented here from previous reads, I felt like it was all set up with no resolution. I'm thinking about just powering through the whole trilogy because I want to know what happens next.

I can see the general direction of where it's going, but we're not close to getting there yet. We got the convergence of the main characters, which was cool, but not a lot of plot.

I didn't exactly like most of the characters, but I loved reading about them. The POV characters felt like believable people with real flaws and motivations.

I thought the action was well done, especially that whole section of Logen going to town on the practicals. It was kind of unexpected when The Bloody Nine turned out to be like a berserk alter ego. I thought that part of it was portrayed well, with Logen coming out of it and finally feeling all his wounds.

I listened to the audio version, and I thought the narrator was great. I wasn't too sure about the voices at first, but they grew on me, and I was impressed how they were all distinct.

Those were just my thoughts kind of thrown out there loosely, but I'll be happy to discuss more if others have input.

[John]

I thought the action was well done, especially that whole section of Logen going to town on the practicals. It was kind of unexpected when The Bloody Nine turned out to be like a berserk alter ego. I thought that part of it was portrayed well, with Logen coming out of it and finally feeling all his wounds.

That was kind of a lightbulb moment for me--throughout the book we've been seeing Logen as this guy who's trying to change his ways, trying to be a better man, etc, but it wasn't until that moment that I realized... what that meant, I guess. That is, not just run-of-the-mill "I wasn't very nice" but more like "there's a demon inside me and I don't want to let it out any more."

I'm also interested in the nature of The Bloody Nine vs. Logen (a question that I don't think really gets answered in the books, so it's open to speculation). Is this a split-personality kind of thing? Is there actually something like a demon within him? Or is there some level on which this is "just" a persona that is part of him (seems least likely to me, but it also seems to be an option that maybe Logen himself believes)?

Truthfully, it's been a couple years since I read the novel, I just saw your mention of that scene as I was scrolling through the digest...

[Oleksandr]

I finished the book and here is my review. To add more spoilerly bits:
- While I agree that the battle scenes are well-done, the author has the same misconceptions about armors as many other fantasy writers, i.e. that it doesn't work, like when Logan chooses a sword he says ‘I’ve never been much for armour.’ or the fear of full armoured knights when they see a naked albeit big barbarian. This is because the author has easily penetrable armour, there are arrows going thu or a mention that no armor helps against Threetree.

[Bobby]

Oleksandr wrote: "I finished the book and here is my review. To add more spoilerly bits:
- While I agree that the battle scenes are well-done, the author has the same misconceptions about armors as many other fantas..."

You are definitely right about the misconceptions about armor and weapons going through it like nothing.

Since it's a fantasy book, I just tend to shrug that off and consider it part of the fantasy aspect. If it were historical fiction, I'd be more critical.

[Oleksandr]

Bobby wrote: "Since it's a fantasy book, I just tend to shrug that off and consider it part of the fantasy aspect. If it were historical fiction, I'd be more critical."

I just think that this affects a fantasy world - if armor doesn't matter why some still use it - are they stupid or masochistic?

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I read A Little Hatred last month and thought it all felt like set up too. I had not previously read this.

I have to say, A Little Hatred is a vast improvement over The Blade Itself. There were so many things I wish had been edited out.

Glokta and his weird italicized inner monologues. He was the only character who had them. Why?

All the “Er... well, er.” Really frustrating- just needless extra words in a book with too many words already.

At some point I just started skipping the endless descriptions of setting. Sometimes this led to skipping most of a chapter. One time I noticed two whole paragraphs dedicated solely to Jezal’s jaw.

I don’t know if I’m going to continue with this series. I was really frustrated. I didn’t think the characters were particularly special in anyway. The Bloody Nine part was cool but it was kind of like- too little too late? I wish he’d shown up earlier.

I was really expecting Abercrombie’s books to be more about war/battle than about political intrigue, and I guess that’s what I’m finding most disappointing.

It’s a completely different genre- but I was really hoping for something more like Bernard Cornwell’s Saxon Stories in a Fantasy world and that’s just not Abercrombie.

[Gabi]

Sarah, the inner monologues irritated me, too. Over half of them were explanations of either his own doings or that of somebody else which already had been self- explanatory in the preceding text. Up to the point that I had the feeling the author deemed me, the reader, too dumb to get them myself, which always annoys me.

[Bobby]

Sarah, I definitely understand where you're coming from with all the descriptions. I just happen to like that in a book, but I know it's not for everyone.

I actually liked the inner monologues, but that may be more because I listened to the audiobook, and the narrator was great at differentiating between the inner voice and Glokta's speaking voice.

I'm getting close to done with the second book, and while I would say it picks up considerably in some aspects, there's still just as much description and political intrigue.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I don’t fault anyone for liking the book Bobby. I’m really in the minority on this. I think if I had read it 15 years ago when it came out I might have felt differently?

I think two things: Abercrombie was still learning how to write and structure a book. I’m not sure if this was his debut but it felt amateurish in places. (I’m baffled by the number of Er’s...).

He’s just not what I was expecting. I came to Fantasy more because I Love historical fiction. And while Im not saying HF is less descriptive than F, I think F readers are more prone to enjoy description because it’s part of the world building, while HF there is a certain degree of imagination the reader can reasonably be expected to use since it’s based in the real world and on history.

So he’s just not my style. That’s okay. I gave him two books. I think in the future I might continue Age of Madness. I don’t think I’ll be continuing First Law.

[Bobby]

I think it was his debut. I read his Shattered Sea books, which were written just a few years ago, and they didn't have some of the same problems this one did.

I think I'm kind of in the middle with this series. It's not my favorite ever, but I like it a lot, and I'm having a good time reading them. I will probably go directly to the 3rd book after the 2nd, so that tells you something.

[Pixiegirl105]

I finished this book I think a month or so ago. I read most books pretty quickly but the writing style of the book made me have to keep putting it down. I will finish the series because I hate leaving a story untold. However, unless the 3rd one is REALLY good, I probably won't continue with his books. (Only started reading JA because of the Brent Weeks feud and though I should try his books out. I think I made a mistake.)

It wasn't just the sloppy writing though. It was the feeling that he describes everything as if his reader is dumb. You can say so and so is a rogue or had the looks of a thief and the imagery will form in my mind. Don't need to knock me over the head with it.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I meant to respond to Gabi’s comment earlier, and now Pixiegirl has also mentioned it, but yes, Glokta monologues were VERY redundant and often it felt like that exact thing, Abercrombie wasn’t trusting his readers to get the point.

I didn’t get that sense from A Little Hatred- so this has improved with time. I would love to see what he could do if he was only given 350 pages to write with.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Bobby wrote: "I think it was his debut. I read his Shattered Sea books, which were written just a few years ago, and they didn't have some of the same problems this one did.

I think I'm kind of in the middle wi..."

I can see where the story has appeal, even if it isn’t the story I wanted- if that makes any sense?

Like I do want to know how it all plays out, (because I already sort of know the end), but I don’t want to know badly enough to read the other 300 pages of description of furniture and scenery and House of the Maker and Jezal’s jaw.

I realize some of it is part of the character building, but I think character actions can speak volumes, rather than needing to be in their heads constantly.

[Silvana]

Pixiegirl105 wrote: "I finished this book I think a month or so ago. I read most books pretty quickly but the writing style of the book made me have to keep putting it down. I will finish the series because I hate leav..."

*peeking in*

What Brent Weeks feud?

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

@Silvana - I looked it up- it’s actually kind of cute. It’s not a real feud, they just troll each other I guess.

https://mobile.twitter.com/brentweeks...